nutty nigel 7,509 Posted July 2, 2008 I was at those games Fellas. And the Luton one. What do you remember about the midfield (Henderson, Charlton, Brennan, Hughes and Mcveigh to name a few) and Doc''s defensive partners? He''s no world beater and certainly not amongst the best centre halves I have seen play for our great club but even I recognise when he gets exposed time and time again. Sometimes he''s all that''s noticed because he''s all that''s there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buncey 1 Posted July 2, 2008 [quote user="nutty nigel"]I was at those games Fellas. And the Luton one. What do you remember about the midfield (Henderson, Charlton, Brennan, Hughes and Mcveigh to name a few) and Doc''s defensive partners? He''s no world beater and certainly not amongst the best centre halves I have seen play for our great club but even I recognise when he gets exposed time and time again. Sometimes he''s all that''s noticed because he''s all that''s there. [/quote]I have to say that for the majority of those games, particularly the reading game where a certain d. etuhu went missing that the midfield did go missing, but the QPR game was just lost because we gave 3 sloppy goals from set pieces and box-defending. It wasn''t all doc''s fault, flem had a very bad game that day to, but doc has to take some responsibility when things go t*ts up in the defence. My parting thought of this season was that we were just alround poor. We didn''t score goals, and we didn''t create chances and we shipped easy goals. It''s easy to blame the strikers, cureton does have to take some blame but we played most of this season with 3 holding midfielders, and sometimes even four when croft and huckerby were out. We still shipped goals. And it wasn''t always the amount we shipped, because this season we didn''t score as frequently at the other end for numerous reasons. The match I''ll take as a good example is Hull. Now Hull are promoted, but when we played them at home they were out of form and missing big players, windass to name just one. We drew. And the goal they scored was one of the most sloppy defensive efforts I have ever seen. Firstly doherty charged up the pitch causing a split in the defence (after giving the ball away of course). Shackell and betrand desperately tried to get to the ball and tangled (really it was shackell''s fault), and some bad goal keeping let frazier campbell in for the points stealing goal. This was a regular occurance throughout last season.Now I understand what people are saying. Doc does good tackles, doc does this blah blah etc. But the key point is, doc does silly things. 90% of the time he makes up for them with some good defending, but sometimes he doesn''t. Football is a strange game in that the scores are so low, it''s very difficult to score. Making mistakes in football is so costly, unlike in basketball for example, if you slip it''s 2 points or as worst 3, out of 130... Those mistakes, not only invite pressure onto us but it makes it so difficult to build an effective partnership. Soon you find more pressure being put on you. The offence tries to split your defence more and more often, and then it''s all over. Shackell is my now means perfect but it is so frustrating when people around you are making these mistakes that makes your job so much harder. Doc invites so much pressure on us by his dodgey clearences. Yes he''s better at clearing it than shax or dublin, but I don''t care because one out five of his clearences leaves us in big big trouble. Shax will slice it for a throw and dublin will whack it to the keeper. So what, it''s cleared, doc sometimes doesn''t clear the ball (and that was also my biggest critism of malkay). Yes those mistakes are highlighted more, but the reason they are is because they are more costly. I don''t like our defence, we need a new one, the past 3 seasons have shown that it''s not working and change is needed, yet we are still waiting. How long are we gonna have to wait for fresh faces and a new defensive partnership. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
followthegreenandyellow 0 Posted July 2, 2008 spot on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vincent 0 Posted July 3, 2008 "And the goal they scored was one of the most sloppy defensive efforts I have ever seen. Firstly doherty charged up the pitch causing a split in the defence (after giving the ball away of course). Shackell and betrand desperately tried to get to the ball and tangled (really it was shackell''s fault), and some bad goal keeping let frazier campbell in for the points stealing goal."fellas - your example doesn''t really put the blame at docs door imo - if that is what you were trying to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted July 3, 2008 Fellas - You are right about that goal against Hull, it was very poor defensively, no more by the Doc than the others though. In this day where all goals are televised and replayed it''s obvious that most goals come from defensive mistakes of some sort. We are lucky that we get to see the matches so we get a more objective view not like those poor souls who follow the club through goal highlights, by the very definition all they will see from our defence is mistakes! I don''t believe Doherty makes any more mistakes than other centrebacks in this league but when he makes them they are often memorable for being horrendous cringeworthy howlers and his awkward style make them look even worse! I remember a couple of seasons ago at our annual new year pilgrimage to the delights of Selhurst. The Doc was just inside our half with the ball at his feet weighing up his options. Suddenly Kuqi, of all people, put him under pressure and Doc got the ball tangled in his feet and lost it. Kuqi fed Freedman and Doc tried desperately to get back only managing to launch himself into our covering player and took out Andy Hughes. Freedman returned the ball to Kuqi who made no mistake with the finish.When you see those mistakes it''s easy to understand why Doherty gets the stick he does. But he is also a very good and brave centre half. I admit it''s strange that Glen Roeder appears to rate him so highly because Roeder himself was one of the best ball playing centre backs of his generation. But he probably also sees that Doherty is a far better player than many give him credit for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smudger 0 Posted July 5, 2008 [quote user="Dicky"][quote user="Smudger"] [quote user="Pyro Pete"]But with Dion gone, and no big man up front, who says Doherty has been signed to play at centre back?Be afraid. Be very afraid![/quote]hoot, hoot!!! [:$] [:D]oh dear Glen... if you do take control of the club Mr Cullum please do not trust this man with your money.Anybody that rates the Doc does not have the first idea of how to build a winning football team.[/quote]How many times did you see the Doc play last season then Smudger? Oh sorry, you don''t need to see him play to forge an opinion, do you. Why not just carry on with your petty vendettas. Oh and your solo activities (protesting I mean, of course!)[/quote]Seeing the Doc play just once in a lifetime is more than enough for anybody.Any judge of what it takes to make a good football team would know on just one viewing of the Donkey that he should never of cut it as a professional footballer.He should of stuck to giving the kids a ride at the seaside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
