Rivers going...

[fish 0]

Apparently Mark Rivers has had a bust up with Nigel Worthington because he''s ''Lazy'' (maybe thats why he has not been playing in the first team) but anyway getting to the point, someone went into the Club Shop to have ''Rivers'' put on the back of their shirt and some one who works with Nigel Worthington said that ''You dont want to get him on the back of your shirt, he''s leaving soon'' Maybe we will sell him and get some good money for him and put it towards the Huckerby/Crouch Fund??!

[silver fox 0]

I like the idea but I cannot see too many clubs coming in for him and certainly not for a large sum. If the story is true then good for Worthy as I have often thought that Rivers could put a bit more effort into his game. It is a shame because on his day he is capable of causing havoc in any defence. As we do not have a big squad it would be ideal if the matter can be sorted out and Rivers can then fight for his place back in the first team.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

Good news if true, although I cant imagine anyone paying much/anything for him.

Still as this weeks news makes clear even actually getting him off the wage bill would help as long as we dont have to pay him to go as well - clearing out dead wood is one thing but I find paying 3 players £700k to go a bit hard to take, especially when one of them was a player that everyone was up in arms about a while ago when they thought he was going to be sold for £3m.

[a1canary 0]

I wouldn''t want to see him go ''cos i still think he can do a job for us. If the bust up results, in time, in him pulling his finger out then it may be worth it. I feel sure it''s true tho, somethin must have happened when you consider the sequence of events:
1.Season starts and he''s on fire.
2.Gets injured at Forest.
3.Gets fit, eventually, (was he lazin around while he was injured rather than working hard to get back?) but then finds his place blocked by Hendo.
4.Gets a few games on the bench, then gets flu.
5.Recovers from flu but then finds that even his place ON THE BENCH is taken, by Jarvis.
6.Jarvis, like Rivers before him, gets flu and STILL keeps his place on the bench ahead of Rivers.

Definitely looks like a bust up or something!

[First Wizard 0]

Oh, please let him go, dear Santa, I''ve never thought he was a city player, we could well do with any cash his departure would ensure.

He''s super slow, can''t cross a ball consistanly, and has a bit of ''sick note'' attitude towards the club. Trouble is, I can''t see too many takers coming in.

When you compare him to Hucks, well, there is no comparison is there?. Although I would still like to see city go for Harper, now there''s Eadie like pace for you, and I believe he''s been a little bit unfortunate during his loan spell, and a big plus must be, that he has said he would love to come here permantly.

[Mook 0]

Worthyout, are you referring to Llewellyn going for 3m? If so, I think we all know we would never have got that for him EVER! He''s not worth 300 grand.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

I was referring to Llewellyn and what I said was that people were up in arms at speculation that he might be sold for £3m which is exactly what happened.

What he was really worth we''ll never know, of course, but under Rioch and Hamilton he was (slowly I admit) developing into a very good player and at the time was worth a lot more than £300K. This is why he was given such a long contract, which for those of you with short memories was thought by most people to be a very positive move by the board at the time.

When Worthington took over he started going backwards but I dont think anyone would have thought 3 years ago that we would end up paying him a quarter of a million to leave.

[Pincer 0]

Worthyout, are you actually blaming NW for the player Llewellyn has turned out to be???????????

[CanaryNut 0]

Both Rivers and Llewellyn are the same sort of player - waiting for things to happen for them rather than taking the initiative and making a first team place their own whilst at the club. No one can be blamed for this except themselves.

Regarding Rivers - I agree on his day he is a very good player but we have not seen this too often, apart from promising signs/displays at the start of this season. If he has been called lazy then who can argue after the game he last played at home to Sunderland when as a second half substitute he was very obscure.

Both Hendo and Jarvis lack the experience but they are both willing and eager - something that with continuing experience will serve the club well in the coming seasons. Lets give them all the encouragement they need whilst in the team.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

I guess in the end the manager gets the blame, or the praise, for everything even though it may be quite hard to know how directly they are responsible for anything.

But on that basis, although Hamilton signed McVeigh, I would be quite happy to give NW the credit for bringing him into the team and developing him into one of our better players. But equally there are players, and Llewellyn and Russell are the obvious examples who did well for Hamilton but went backwards under NW.

Of course young players dont always develop in a way that their talent as youngsters suggest they might. But managers do affect all players, and particularily youngsters, by the way they coach, use and motivate players, and for whatever reason NW clearly had a negative effect on those two. And in Llewellyn''s case he wasnt a raw youngster, I guess he must have played 60 odd games for us before NW took over so we had a fair idea what he could do but he didnt do it from then on.

Basically he wasnt a great tackler and he didnt visibly run himself into the ground, thereby failing NW''s two basic tests on what makes a good footballer. The fact that he created chances and scored a few himself is, of course, an irrelevant detail.

So the answer to your question is Yes.

[Temp the Revelator 0]

You say that Russell & Llewellyn went backwards under Worthy, but is this really the case? Do you not think it may just be that they looked better players in Hamilton''s team because it was so poor in the first place? I believe the squad and team improved around them very quickly, thus leaving them looking exactly what they are - average players.

[Mook 0]

Spot on Templeton. I agree with WorthyOut that Nigel has his preference for a style of player (actually, style is probably the wrong word to use in this case) but his preferences seem to be working. I would rather watch talentless than gutless.

[irishcanary 0]

This is worrying,but i agree with you Mook. Maybe as my sources at the club had led me to believe that Crouch was here for the season. i am ill

[Pincer 0]

I remember when Llewellyn first came into the team after an excellent youth career but after watching him progress in the first team through the Rioch/Hamilton era one thing became very apparent.........he was not physically strong enough for that level and to put it politely he was a ''pansy''. To be fair to the lad he was a fairly talented player but I rememeber sitting in the upper Barclay during this period (well before NW took charge) with fans constantly jeering him because of his workrate and constantly bottling out of challenges. How you can then blame NW for his decline is beyond me. I seem to remember Llewellyn getting injured, correct me if i''m wrong, in Worthy''s first home game of his first full season against Man City, being replaced by Mcveigh and never winning his place back, and look at Mcveigh now, Llewellyn isn''t a patch on him, and you must give credit to the manager for that (to be fair you or someone else earlier in this debate did though). I just think Nigel did what Bruce and Bryan should have done in their reign and that was can him because is simply wasn''t good enough.

I haven''t got a problem with Llewellyn but I am now starting to get annoyed with these idiotic so called fans calling for the managers head after what he''s done, for Christ sake give the guy a break and get behind him, sorry but seeing an author with the name ''WorthOut'' and listening to some of the gumph 1st Wizard has dribbled on about is starting to P*** me off.

[Mook 0]

The criticism is slightly dull, but I think that the people that want to have fascinating debate about the future, past and present of our great club should do just that. The people that want to give nicknames like "Worthless" and "Doomcaster", and go on about how we''re going to be fail should do their thing, but there''s space enough for all of us and the club will continue to run itself and not listen to anyone except those in the know. And beyond football matters (and including football matters, for some of us) we haven''t got a clue what''s going on and will not find out.