Trouble At T'Cotton Mill - Rangers FC vs Manchester City Centre

[Evil Monkey 52]

Out of interest, what are the thoughts of fans "back home" as it were on last night''s trouble in Manchester following Rangers'' Uefa Cup Final defeat?The build-up to yesterday''s game saw an amazing, buzzing atmosphere in the city as Rangers'' fans carried out their friendly invaion.  I wandered through town about 4pm and saw no trouble at all - they were boisterous and loud, but respectful and polite, even though I was inadvertantly wearing my England top.  Aside from the sheer volume of numbers and the niggling feeling there''d be a few scuffles if they lost, there was little sign of what was to come.Admittedly, the problems were caused by a minority, with CCTV footage showing about 200 fans causing the major problems, which out of the 100,000 fans who came along was pretty impressive.  And there''s no doubt that the situation wasn''t helped by the failure of the screen in Piccadilly Gardens were a cause of many of the frustrations, but this was a technical fault no one could have forseen.  Worse of all for me has been the number of excuses coming out of all this from the Rangers fans (and, incidentally, the Scottish Tory party):"It was the screen failing what did it.""The police were too heavy-handed, och aye.""The organisation was a shambles, canny."All pathetic excuses for violent behaviour from a handful of drunken Scots, and that''s where the failings lie - the inability of those few to control their own alcohol intake and their own actions.  The stabbing of the Russian fan took place in the ground, before the game had even kicked off.  These people are thugs, and thugs are thugs no matter where they''re from or what city they''re in.  Hopefully some have been identified and will be on the receiving end of a banning order very soon for they have no place in football.  You see, it''s not only the trashing of my City I''m annoyed about, its the sullying of the reputation of British fans - for the Scots were indeed draped in the Union Jack, and this is what the foreign media will show pictures of.  English fans have made great strides to get away from their hooligan image in the last ten years or so and I''d hate to think our reputation will be dragged down with those few idiots.At the end of the day, Manchester can still feel proud of yesterday in that we held up our end of the bargain: there were three seperate "fan zones" with huge screens, refreshment tents and lines of portaloos; the people of Manchester were welcoming and the police were (initially) a definite but low-key presence; we took in 100,000 people who''d been drinking all day and did it with a smile on our faces for the most part.  And this is how those few choose to repay us.Personally, I think we should get a list of names and addresses for those causing the disturbances, then march 100,000 Mancunions up to Glasgow to return the favour on their homes. [;)]Any thoughts?

[can u sit down please 0]

Great post! Agreed 200 out of 100,000 is not that bad but its the minority draped in the Union Jack that give us the bad name. The connotations that go with that flag now are terrible, i would never carry one, i would feel as though i was being viewed as a Nazi or something!

Can you imagine what the uproar would be like if they were English fans? We, im sure would have had a fine already, been barred from the comp and would be ruled out of the running for the World cup for 50 yrs! (Ok, last one is OTT!)

English football has shown the way to the rest of the world of how to clean up its act from racism to terrace violence. Its a shame something like this will now be held up against us even though they were scots!

[Scottlarock 12]

...i totally agree and the comment coming from Scotland is disgraceful. The footage of the policeman getting tripped up is shocking. Glasgow is my hometown many moons ago and I''m ashamed of what went on and very surprised.Glsagow Rangers are a really decent club (fans apart) and the goings on of last night compared to the gentle dignity they have employed to cancel all events today because of the death of Tommy Burns shows the difference between the Club and a minority (more than a few hundred though)of the fans.

[Scottlarock 12]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]

Great post! Agreed 200 out of 100,000 is not that bad but its the minority draped in the Union Jack that give us the bad name. The connotations that go with that flag now are terrible, i would never carry one, i would feel as though i was being viewed as a Nazi or something!

[/quote]It''s terrible. I''d like to point out though that Rangers use of the Union Jack has very little to do with Fascism/BNP - it''s to do with Religious bigotry instead - the way the Rangers fans see it is that it''s their allegiance to the Queen and protestantism, while the Celtic fans whose allegiance is to the catholicism, the Pope and Ireland - hence the use of the Irish tricolar and IRA references.It''s pointless, stupid,absurd, ignorant and Strathclyde police need to arrest a few 100 every game until the message gets out that sectarianism is as bad as fascism and any other form of intolerance.

[WrightyBoy 0]

Typical reaction from the scots blame the establishment!!! Poor fans... picked on by the English...what a load of bull!!!

They were lucky it werent the Italian cops...they would have dealt with the scum in the right manner and shot the pricks!!

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="WrightyBoy"]

Typical reaction from the scots blame the establishment!!! Poor fans... picked on by the English...what a load of bull!!!

[/quote]

remind me again which countries fans it is that cause the mnost trouble at international tournaments?.. clue.. they WONT be at euro 2008

jas :)

[Shack Attack 0]

If you invite 100,000 people into your city to drink all day you shouldn''t be awfully surprised if a minority start causing trouble. English, Scottish, German or Dutch, you''re asking for trouble. I can''t for the life of me understand why these cities continue to put up big screens for fans who haven''t got tickets and then invite them to drink all day. Well I can understand, it''s about making money, but they should stop the handwringing when the inevitable happens.As for for the fans being draped in the Union Flag, I doubt there are too many people out there who are not aware of why they do that. I can''t see it affecting the reputation of the fine and upstanding travelling English fans. Isn''t it funny how when travelling English fans get baton charged by Italian/Spanish police we call the police animals and accuse them of over reacting but yesterday was all the fault of the Rangers fans [:^)]

[WrightyBoy 0]

Thats because the Police over here are soft and only act when acted upon unlike other countries!!!???!!

 

Have you not watched the vids on sky news of the fans randomly attacking a Police officer when he is casually walking along????!! Oh suppose thats the Polices fault aswell!!???

[Joanna Grey 0]

jas - Italy have qualified though...

[McCanary 0]

In excess of 100000 drinkers and how many were arrested? Yes some of the behaviour was disgraceful and should never be condoned BUT...this is Manchester where this sort of thing and worse happens every night of the week.

I`ll wait and see how well behaved the fans are in Moscow next week before I pass any judgements.

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="McCanary"]

In excess of 100000 drinkers and how many were arrested? Yes some of the behaviour was disgraceful and should never be condoned BUT...this is Manchester where this sort of thing and worse happens every night of the week.

I`ll wait and see how well behaved the fans are in Moscow next week before I pass any judgements.

[/quote]

.......and even more worse things happen every night in Glasgow.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="bunny"]jas - Italy have qualified though...[/quote]

best you check your crime figures... Italy cause problems domestically.. its "the best fans in the world" england that get water cannoned and Ruck wherever they are.

jas :)

[Regime Change 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="WrightyBoy"]

Typical reaction from the scots blame the establishment!!! Poor fans... picked on by the English...what a load of bull!!!

[/quote]

remind me again which countries fans it is that cause the mnost trouble at international tournaments?.. clue.. they WONT be at euro 2008

jas :)

[/quote]

How may English fans have been stabbed when they''ve gone to fixures in Turkey or Italy?

Wasn''t it the Italian who had to suspend fixtures crowd trouble and the killing of a policeman?

To suggest only English fans are hooligans is rubbish.  The Independent didn''t even mention the trouble - The media don''t appear to be interested unless English fans are involved

The only reason the Scots don''t cause trouble at international tournaments is because they hardly ever qualify!!!!

[Regime Change 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Out of interest, what are the thoughts of fans "back home" as it were on last night''s trouble in Manchester following Rangers'' Uefa Cup Final defeat?

The build-up to yesterday''s game saw an amazing, buzzing atmosphere in the city as Rangers'' fans carried out their friendly invaion.  I wandered through town about 4pm and saw no trouble at all - they were boisterous and loud, but respectful and polite, even though I was inadvertantly wearing my England top.  Aside from the sheer volume of numbers and the niggling feeling there''d be a few scuffles if they lost, there was little sign of what was to come.

Admittedly, the problems were caused by a minority, with CCTV footage showing about 200 fans causing the major problems, which out of the 100,000 fans who came along was pretty impressive.  And there''s no doubt that the situation wasn''t helped by the failure of the screen in Piccadilly Gardens were a cause of many of the frustrations, but this was a technical fault no one could have forseen.  Worse of all for me has been the number of excuses coming out of all this from the Rangers fans (and, incidentally, the Scottish Tory party):

"It was the screen failing what did it."

"The police were too heavy-handed, och aye."

"The organisation was a shambles, canny."

All pathetic excuses for violent behaviour from a handful of drunken Scots, and that''s where the failings lie - the inability of those few to control their own alcohol intake and their own actions.  The stabbing of the Russian fan took place in the ground, before the game had even kicked off.  These people are thugs, and thugs are thugs no matter where they''re from or what city they''re in.  Hopefully some have been identified and will be on the receiving end of a banning order very soon for they have no place in football. 

You see, it''s not only the trashing of my City I''m annoyed about, its the sullying of the reputation of British fans - for the Scots were indeed draped in the Union Jack, and this is what the foreign media will show pictures of.  English fans have made great strides to get away from their hooligan image in the last ten years or so and I''d hate to think our reputation will be dragged down with those few idiots.

At the end of the day, Manchester can still feel proud of yesterday in that we held up our end of the bargain: there were three seperate "fan zones" with huge screens, refreshment tents and lines of portaloos; the people of Manchester were welcoming and the police were (initially) a definite but low-key presence; we took in 100,000 people who''d been drinking all day and did it with a smile on our faces for the most part.  And this is how those few choose to repay us.

Personally, I think we should get a list of names and addresses for those causing the disturbances, then march 100,000 Mancunions up to Glasgow to return the favour on their homes. [;)]

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Totally agree with everything you have said.  UEFA appear to be willing to turn a blind eye to hoolaganism as long as it doesn''t involve England or English clubs

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="McCanary"]

 BUT...this is Manchester where this sort of thing and worse happens every night of the week.

[/quote]

Yes, Manchester is a daily wreck with riots every night... well done

for spotting that... glad to know you''ve visited in the last 20 years...

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Is anybody reallly surprised a bunch of drunk idiot Scots caused a load of trouble?  Great fans...  yeah right.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Sherlock Holmes"]

To suggest only English fans are hooligans is rubbish.  The Independent didn''t even mention the trouble - The media don''t appear to be interested unless English fans are involved

[/quote]It was mentioned in every newspaper I saw yesterday. Whenever English fans are involved in trouble abroad the media always blames the heavy handed approach of foreign police never questioning what made Pedro/Guiseppe/Hans beat seven shades out of ''our boys''.

[Buncey 1]

To be honest this is all a joke. I can promise you this will be another "black eye" that will go against our chances of being a host nation of the world cup any time soon. This is nowhere near as bad as what happened in netherlands, italy and france (where people have actually died due to football hooliganism) yet we are still made out to be the worse perpetrators. So what that there is a lot of mess. There was bound to be. Anybody remember that gig in brighton all those years ago? To be honest I didn''t expect much better from scottish footy fans (not that this is derogatory in anyway).

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]To be honest this is all a joke. I can promise you this will be another "black eye" that will go against our chances of being a host nation of the world cup any time soon.[/quote]

We''ve apparently damaged our chances by not using FIFAs'' "preferred consultants" for the initial bidding process, a company which has "close ties" with the FIFA governing body.  Basically if you want to have the World Cup, you have to pay the people at the top of FIFA, and we are apparently not playing ball...

[Flecks right thigh 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]If you invite 100,000 people into your city to drink all day you shouldn''t be awfully surprised if a minority start causing trouble. English, Scottish, German or Dutch, you''re asking for trouble. I can''t for the life of me understand why these cities continue to put up big screens for fans who haven''t got tickets and then invite them to drink all day. Well I can understand, it''s about making money, but they should stop the handwringing when the inevitable happens.

[/quote]

Manchester City Council and the Police advised all fans without tickets NOT to travel to Manchester. They were originally not going to have the screens up but after consideration realised that 100,000 Glaswegians trying to fit into pubs in Manchester would not work they relented and put up the screens.

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

We''ve apparently damaged our chances by not using FIFAs'' "preferred consultants" for the initial bidding process, a company which has "close ties" with the FIFA governing body.  Basically if you want to have the World Cup, you have to pay the people at the top of FIFA, and we are apparently not playing ball...

[/quote]Sounds about right for Sepp Blatter.

[McCanary 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Is anybody reallly surprised a bunch of drunk idiot Scots caused a load of trouble?  Great fans...  yeah right.[/quote]

This would be in the same vein as all the drunk idiot English fans who never cause trouble when travelling??

 

 A

[McCanary 0]

[quote user="Fellas"]To be honest I didn''t expect much better from scottish footy fans (not that this is derogatory in anyway).
[/quote]

So what exactly is it then if not a derogatory statement?

 

[McCanary 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="McCanary"]

 BUT...this is Manchester where this sort of thing and worse happens every night of the week.

[/quote]

Yes, Manchester is a daily wreck with riots every night... well done for spotting that... glad to know you''ve visited in the last 20 years...
[/quote]

I visit Manchester regularly thanks.

Whist "riots " are not a daily occurrence, the instances of violent crime are (in my experience of the city.) as they are in most large urban areas.

[McCanary 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="McCanary"]

 BUT...this is Manchester where this sort of thing and worse happens every night of the week.

[/quote]

Yes, Manchester is a daily wreck with riots every night... well done for spotting that... glad to know you''ve visited in the last 20 years...
[/quote]

I visit Manchester regularly thanks.

Whist "riots " are not a daily occurrence, the instances of violent crime are (in my experience of the city.) as they are in most large urban areas.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Flecks right thigh"]

Manchester City Council and the Police advised all fans without tickets NOT to travel to Manchester. They were originally not going to have the screens up but after consideration realised that 100,000 Glaswegians trying to fit into pubs in Manchester would not work they relented and put up the screens.

[/quote]Fair enough, I wasn''t aware of that.I still maintain though that the media in this country treat any holliganism by English fans a lot differently that they do when it is carried out by foreigners. I can recall watching an England match on the BBC not so long ago, I think it was against Slovakia or some other Eastern European country, when English fans were trying to get at the oppsition fans and were involved in running battles with the police. The commentator said, in all seriousness and without a hint of irony, that they had been provoked by the opposition fans directing monkey noises at Englands black players [:|]

[McCanary 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Flecks right thigh"]

Manchester City Council and the Police advised all fans without tickets NOT to travel to Manchester. They were originally not going to have the screens up but after consideration realised that 100,000 Glaswegians trying to fit into pubs in Manchester would not work they relented and put up the screens.

[/quote]

Fair enough, I wasn''t aware of that.

I still maintain though that the media in this country treat any holliganism by English fans a lot differently that they do when it is carried out by foreigners. I can recall watching an England match on the BBC not so long ago, I think it was against Slovakia or some other Eastern European country, when English fans were trying to get at the oppsition fans and were involved in running battles with the police. The commentator said, in all seriousness and without a hint of irony, that they had been provoked by the opposition fans directing monkey noises at Englands black players [:|]
[/quote]

Spot on, Shack. Totally agree with this

[Feathers 0]

Made me laugh back in France ''98 when The Sun proclaimed ''England''s Shame'' after some monkeys smashed up Marseilles, when that ''newspaper'' vitriolically spews out nationalist rhetoric and encourages ignorant xenephobia on a daily basis.I dare say it was this nationalist nonsense that led to a Russian fan being stabbed... stupid is what stupid does. 

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="McCanary"]

I visit Manchester regularly thanks.

Whist "riots " are not a daily occurrence, the instances of violent crime are (in my experience of the city.) as they are in most large urban areas.

[/quote]Of course violent crime is a daily occurrence in a city the size of Manchester, but we''re not talking about that level of crime in most cases on Wednesday.  The point is that those fans were bloody well looked after by Manchester, and whilst most of them went home happy, some are going back with tales of Police brutality and "that broken-down screen".These scenes of the police officer being kicked and beaten are disgraceful regardless of what nationality they are or what city they are in.  I''m particularly moved to speak about it because it happened in my city and because of the damage they''ve already done to an improving national record on football hooliganism.  English fans are cleaning up their act but it seems that a few Scots are living in the 80s still...

[No Quarter 0]

There must have been 25-30 blokes kicking that police man in.  God, they''re hard.  I only hope that the policeman in question is ok, and all those brain dead morons are dealt with in the correct way - i.e put down, or banned from ever leaving their homes again.  Football hooligans really are a bunch of chavvy, Stone Island wearing, low quality t**ts.  If only they could see how ridiculous they look..........