Foozzy for Charlton?

[Regime Change 0]

Which is presumably why Roder wants him at CR!

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"]He aint really putting pressure on to stay is he, he should remember where he was when he came here, road to nowhere, let the man go if he thinks Charlton is a better option.[/quote]If he wants to go, it''s not a case of ''letting him go'' – he''s out of contract so he''ll just walk out. Ultimately it''s totally in his hands where he plays next season. If it''s at Carrow Road then that''s great, if it''s somewhere else then like you say, he''s an ungrateful sod!

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]
So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?
[/quote] Gibbs would be the playmaker/distributor.  What is the use of ten yard passes sideways or backwards that don''t create chances?  Stoke bypassed their midfield all season and managed to get promoted.

I certainly didn''t see much evidence of defence splitting passes from Fotheringham this season and I didn''t miss a home game.

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]
So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?
[/quote]

Oh, the sideways passing can be translated as switching play, quite a good trait for a midfielder.  Hardly makes a difference when we are only talking about ten yards.  Also.....wouldn''t he have had to pass sideways to give the ball to our main threat Hucks or even Croft when playing?  They had to come close as he wasn''t capable of hitting a long ball.

[/quote]

[Mook 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]
So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?
[/quote] Gibbs would be the playmaker/distributor.  What is the use of ten yard passes sideways or backwards that don''t create chances?  Stoke bypassed their midfield all season and managed to get promoted.

I certainly didn''t see much evidence of defence splitting passes from Fotheringham this season and I didn''t miss a home game.

[/quote]

Not every pass can be a defence splitter, otherwise you end up like Steven Gerrard giving the ball away by trying a 50 yrd glory ball every time.

You need the Alonso type (ok Fozzy is WAY below that standard) to keep the game ticking over, keep the opposition moving about and waiting for some confusion in their defence.

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?[/quote] Gibbs would be the playmaker/distributor.  What is the use of ten yard passes sideways or backwards that don''t create chances?  Stoke bypassed their midfield all season and managed to get promoted.

I certainly didn''t see much evidence of defence splitting passes from Fotheringham this season and I didn''t miss a home game.

[/quote]See my previous comment about defence-splitting passes, and the relative role of Fozzy and a more creative attacking player. Fozzy can spray the ball out wide and open the game up, and has done time and again this season. It''s not all ten-yard passes along the ground.Stoke got promoted, but they will come back down again. Teams who go straight up playing nice football have much better chances of survival (see Reading and Wigan). We went up playing good football, and but for a bit more backing from the board we would have stayed up.

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Me thinks it''s probably a case that his agent has "leaked" the gossip to the press/media in order to strengthen their position when negotiating his City contract.

I''m never very sure how important he is to the team. On the one hand he does seemingly bring a bit more determination to proceedings but as a footballer he''s fairly ordinary in what he does. He can''t pass the ball like Safri could for us and he doesn''t have the pace to turn on the ball in midfield and drive forward.

[/quote] Spot on GJP you summed him up in a nutshell ''fairly ordinary''.

[ca 1]

How come he was only on a 1 yr contract?

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]
So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?
[/quote] Gibbs would be the playmaker/distributor.  What is the use of ten yard passes sideways or backwards that don''t create chances?  Stoke bypassed their midfield all season and managed to get promoted.

I certainly didn''t see much evidence of defence splitting passes from Fotheringham this season and I didn''t miss a home game.

[/quote]
See my previous comment about defence-splitting passes, and the relative role of Fozzy and a more creative attacking player. Fozzy can spray the ball out wide and open the game up, and has done time and again this season. It''s not all ten-yard passes along the ground.  He  must have been spraying the ball around in the away matches.   Would your more creative attacking player be Pattison or Russell?  The prospect of a midfield of those three is not going to guarantee us a play off slot next season.

Stoke got promoted, but they will come back down again. Teams who go straight up playing nice football have much better chances of survival (see Reading and Wigan). We went up playing good football, and but for a bit more backing from the board we would have stayed up.  I think the board did back Worthy, it was the players he brought in, and his team selection that ensured we went down.
[/quote]

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]How come he was only on a 1 yr contract?[/quote]Because at the end of last season, most fans (myself included) wanted us to release him! Did you see him play in the second half of last season? He was so far off the pace it was untrue. Grant gave him one more year, and in some ways we''re lucky he did. I wouldn''t have given him a contract last summer if I''d been manager, but in hindsight I wish Grant had given him three or four years!

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="silver fox"][quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="silver fox"]Everything goes through him stands for sideways and backwards passing.  No great loss in my opinion and I would be happy to see Gibbs back again.[/quote]So who would be our playmaker/distributor then? Or should we just bypass the midfield and to hell with retaining possession?[/quote] Gibbs would be the playmaker/distributor.  What is the use of ten yard passes sideways or backwards that don''t create chances?  Stoke bypassed their midfield all season and managed to get promoted.

I certainly didn''t see much evidence of defence splitting passes from Fotheringham this season and I didn''t miss a home game.

[/quote]See my previous comment about defence-splitting passes, and the relative role of Fozzy and a more creative attacking player. Fozzy can spray the ball out wide and open the game up, and has done time and again this season. It''s not all ten-yard passes along the ground.  He  must have been spraying the ball around in the away matches.   Would your more creative attacking player be Pattison or Russell?  The prospect of a midfield of those three is not going to guarantee us a play off slot next season.Stoke got promoted, but they will come back down again. Teams who go straight up playing nice football have much better chances of survival (see Reading and Wigan). We went up playing good football, and but for a bit more backing from the board we would have stayed up.  I think the board did back Worthy, it was the players he brought in, and his team selection that ensured we went down.[/quote][/quote]On the first point, I think you''ve just decided you don''t like him and that''s that. Seriously, he did more to link the play than any other player in our squad this season, bringing isolated wide players into the game, as well as a lot of the ''ordinary'' stuff that you mention. I didn''t miss a home game either, and I saw a completely different player. Where do you sit, by the way? I sit at the back of the River, from where you have a great view of the whole pitch. When I''ve sat in the lower tier in previous years, you don''t get nearly as good a perspective on players'' movement.On the second point, I can see where you''re coming from – Charlton and Fleming at the back, for example, was simply bad tactics. However, given the amount of money we got for promotion (and the huge amount on offer for staying for a second year), the board should have backed Worthy with enough money to buy some real quality players. A striker of Crouch or Ashton''s quality in the first half of the season would have made a world of difference - it was no coincidence our results improved after Christmas. A large outlay, but if we get relegated then we sell them on, nothing lost except for a season''s wages. Remember Crouch only cost Southampton £2m!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Strangely I think Charlton and Fleming were our most effective pairing in the Prem. Maybe it was postional play and experience or just one of those "strange but true moments".

 

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Strangely I think Charlton and Fleming were our most effective pairing in the Prem. Maybe it was postional play and experience or just one of those "strange but true moments".

 

[/quote]When Shack broke through in the second half of the season he was really good. Better than he''s ever managed to play in the Championship, as I recall! Charlton and Fleming had no lack of endeavour, but they were neither fast enough nor strong enough to withstand the quality of strikers – hence us not winning any of our first 14 games. Decent players though they were, starting the season with two sub-six-foot centre backs was an accident waiting to happen.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Coelho"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Strangely I think Charlton and Fleming were our most effective pairing in the Prem. Maybe it was postional play and experience or just one of those "strange but true moments".

 

[/quote]
When Shack broke through in the second half of the season he was really good. Better than he''s ever managed to play in the Championship, as I recall! Charlton and Fleming had no lack of endeavour, but they were neither fast enough nor strong enough to withstand the quality of strikers – hence us not winning any of our first 14 games. Decent players though they were, starting the season with two sub-six-foot centre backs was an accident waiting to happen.
[/quote]

I agree with that Coelho, it''s just that if I remember rightly we conceded least goals with Charlton and Fleming. We did draw 5 games away from home while those two were paired and could easily have won a couple. The game I remember from all of them was at White Hart Lane when we would have won if it hadn''t been for that tackle by Ledley King on Hucks. It''s the best saving tackle I have ever seen anywhere and was the moment I first realised quite how difficult the Premiership had become.

 

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Coelho"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Strangely I think Charlton and Fleming were our most effective pairing in the Prem. Maybe it was postional play and experience or just one of those "strange but true moments".

 

[/quote]When Shack broke through in the second half of the season he was really good. Better than he''s ever managed to play in the Championship, as I recall! Charlton and Fleming had no lack of endeavour, but they were neither fast enough nor strong enough to withstand the quality of strikers – hence us not winning any of our first 14 games. Decent players though they were, starting the season with two sub-six-foot centre backs was an accident waiting to happen.[/quote]

I agree with that Coelho, it''s just that if I remember rightly we conceded least goals with Charlton and Fleming. We did draw 5 games away from home while those two were paired and could easily have won a couple. The game I remember from all of them was at White Hart Lane when we would have won if it hadn''t been for that tackle by Ledley King on Hucks. It''s the best saving tackle I have ever seen anywhere and was the moment I first realised quite how difficult the Premiership had become.

[/quote]Your powers of recall are better than mine! I still think that the extra money to buy a top-class striker before the season started made the difference. Ashton or Crouch from August, there''s no way we''d have gone 14 games without winning.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Coelho"]Your powers of recall are better than mine! I still think that the extra money to buy a top-class striker before the season started made the difference. Ashton or Crouch from August, there''s no way we''d have gone 14 games without winning.
[/quote]

I''ve said that over and over, both at the time and since. We would definitely have got enough points to survive if we had brought either of those two strikers in August. And then we did exactly the same in 2006 when we needed a target man and Worthy wanted Howard. He even spelled it out by saying that we should be proactive rather than reactive and not repeat the mistakes made at the start of the prem season.

 

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Coelho"]Your powers of recall are better than mine! I still think that the extra money to buy a top-class striker before the season started made the difference. Ashton or Crouch from August, there''s no way we''d have gone 14 games without winning.[/quote]

I''ve said that over and over, both at the time and since. We would definitely have got enough points to survive if we had brought either of those two strikers in August. And then we did exactly the same in 2006 when we needed a target man and Worthy wanted Howard. He even spelled it out by saying that we should be proactive rather than reactive and not repeat the mistakes made at the start of the prem season.[/quote]

And full circle to 2008, where we need to replace Dion. A season-long loan for Ched would be fantastic, but we need a big strong target man because nobody can keep the ball on the deck all the time. We need an outlet up top, and I''m sure Glenn has identified that. It''s going to be an interesting summer, one way and another...

[silver fox 0]

Dear Coelho in answer to your question I sit in the Upper Barclay just to the right of the goal and have an excellent view of the overall picture.  It isn''t that I don''t like Fotheringham because I couldn''t fault his effort and commitment, but I don''t feel he is inspirational enough to be the Captain, and I personally don''t think he will ever be a top midfielder.

What are your views on Fotheringham, Pattison and Russell being the nucleus of our midfield next season?  In my opinion they are all committed honest players, but none of them are going to set the world alight at Championship level.

Interestingly I work with a Charlton supporter and he has scouted for managers such as Dalglish,Harford and Jim Smith in the past, and he is dreading the rumour about Pardew''s interest in Fotheringham, although he believes he is the sort of ''duffer'' he is likely to take on a free transfer to go along with Iwelumo, Varney, Andy Gray, Halford, McCarthy, McLeod ( total 9 million).

[Cottaging Canary 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]

Dear Coelho in answer to your question I sit in the Upper Barclay just to the right of the goal and have an excellent view of the overall picture.  It isn''t that I don''t like Fotheringham because I couldn''t fault his effort and commitment, but I don''t feel he is inspirational enough to be the Captain, and I personally don''t think he will ever be a top midfielder.

What are your views on Fotheringham, Pattison and Russell being the nucleus of our midfield next season?  In my opinion they are all committed honest players, but none of them are going to set the world alight at Championship level.

Interestingly I work with a Charlton supporter and he has scouted for managers such as Dalglish,Harford and Jim Smith in the past, and he is dreading the rumour about Pardew''s interest in Fotheringham, although he believes he is the sort of ''duffer'' he is likely to take on a free transfer to go along with Iwelumo, Varney, Andy Gray, Halford, McCarthy, McLeod ( total 9 million).

[/quote]

And what exactly does he know about Fozzy?! I sit in the Upper Barclay so presumabley see the same things as you, and think Fotheringham is our best midfield player by a distance. With him sitting in there, we need someone like Russell or Pattison (but better!) alongside him.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

[quote user="silver fox"]

Dear Coelho in answer to your question I sit in the Upper Barclay just to the right of the goal and have an excellent view of the overall picture.  It isn''t that I don''t like Fotheringham because I couldn''t fault his effort and commitment, but I don''t feel he is inspirational enough to be the Captain, and I personally don''t think he will ever be a top midfielder.

[/quote]Does your seat face the pitch?To take one example, (h) vs Burnley, a crucial game if you recall. Before the game Fotheringham went round virtually every player, high-fiving and generally bawling in their faces. In the first ten minutes of the game he won virtually every tackle in midfield and established City''s superiority. How much more inspirational do you want? Whether he ever becomes a top player, he has been a superb City captain this season.I suspect that those who don''t rate Fozzy made their judgment last season, when by his own admission he was off the pace, and have been slow to change their minds.

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]

Dear Coelho in answer to your question I sit in the Upper Barclay just to the right of the goal and have an excellent view of the overall picture.  It isn''t that I don''t like Fotheringham because I couldn''t fault his effort and commitment, but I don''t feel he is inspirational enough to be the Captain, and I personally don''t think he will ever be a top midfielder.

What are your views on Fotheringham, Pattison and Russell being the nucleus of our midfield next season?  In my opinion they are all committed honest players, but none of them are going to set the world alight at Championship level.

Interestingly I work with a Charlton supporter and he has scouted for managers such as Dalglish,Harford and Jim Smith in the past, and he is dreading the rumour about Pardew''s interest in Fotheringham, although he believes he is the sort of ''duffer'' he is likely to take on a free transfer to go along with Iwelumo, Varney, Andy Gray, Halford, McCarthy, McLeod ( total 9 million).

[/quote]Personally I think Russell and Fozzy would make a decent pairing, but Pattison I don''t believe to be anything more than a squad player. All three are very honest, hard-working players, but Fozzy I see as someone with a bit of extra technical expertise. I''m sure you''ll agree that he was awful when he first joined, but if you look at the improvement in his performances this season in a side that''s generally been failing, I think he could be absolutely key with the right personnel around him. I know someone who is involved with the players, and he is always telling me that Fozzy is absolutely irrepressible, always talking nineteen to the dozen, totally and utterly passionate, and that he can see why Roeder made him captain. As for Russell, not a great deal of technique or craft (although more than Pattison), but hopefully we might be able to get one more creative player in. Chadwick could, I think, play a more creative role behind a main striker, or in an attacking midfield role (didn''t he play there under Grant once or twice and do okay?). Certainly Fozzy is better sitting deep, like Saf used to, but you''re right that in Russell and Pattison there''s not enough creativity to threaten the top six.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

At Blackpool in November it was easy to see why Roeder subsequently chose Fotheringham as captain. We were close enough to the pitch to not only see how he was motivating players but also hear him lifting them. He knew how important it was that we got that first away win after having stopped the rot by beating Coventry a few days earlier. He earned the captaincy that night and he is a very inspirational player.

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

so fozzy goes - we get nowt for him - who will come in and better his contribution???  a brellier type??? or what???  the champs is a tough place to play footy - and he struggled to make an impact in his first season.  granty kept telling us though that fozzy would come good - and to his credit the boy worked hard in the close season to get champs match fit, and sure he''s had a great season - becoming captain along the way.  another to speak his mind at our cr@p board - players like him are hard to replace.  he knows the pace of the champs and is comfortable with it - the only time he looks inadequate imo is when he''s tired, coming back from injury, or playing against the absolute top champs midfields.it would take a player with potential who can realise it quickly - like francis did in his first season with us - so it wouldn''t be the end of the world if fozzy went - but if his replacement bombed - its clear we''d be in trouble and after this season we don''t need it.  stability would be a preferred option this year for me. 

 

[silver fox 0]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"][quote user="silver fox"]

Dear Coelho in answer to your question I sit in the Upper Barclay just to the right of the goal and have an excellent view of the overall picture.  It isn''t that I don''t like Fotheringham because I couldn''t fault his effort and commitment, but I don''t feel he is inspirational enough to be the Captain, and I personally don''t think he will ever be a top midfielder.

[/quote]

Does your seat face the pitch? Yes

To take one example, (h) vs Burnley, a crucial game if you recall. Before the game Fotheringham went round virtually every player, high-fiving and generally bawling in their faces. In the first ten minutes of the game he won virtually every tackle in midfield and established City''s superiority. How much more inspirational do you want? Whether he ever becomes a top player, he has been a superb City captain this season.  Anyone can give a high five and shout at people.  Burnley didn''t have a midfield to speak about that day.  To take another example ,(H) vs West Brom, we kicked off Fozzie hoofed the ball upfield aimlessly, they returned it to Phillips and the rest was history 1-0 down, what an inspiration that was to the team, he couldn''t even keep the ball at our kick off.

I suspect that those who don''t rate Fozzy made their judgment last season, when by his own admission he was off the pace, and have been slow to change their minds. 


[/quote]

[NegativeVibes 0]

No lets get rid of him :D!! We''ve obviously got some massive coups lined up.

[rodentwatch 0]

I''d be happy to see Fozzy go. He''s fairly solid but hasn''t set the world alight.

Bring back Marney. Fozzy is nothing compared to Marney now he''s beefed up a bit.