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a1canary

I've heard enough - i really do NOT like our manager

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Someone''s already posted about Roeder''s post match comments on Cureton but that was before his full comments were released in this article:

http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED23%20Mar%202008%2020%3A10%3A12%3A277

"The Golden Boot winner from last season means nothing to me, and Jamie will accept me saying that," he said. "It''s what he does next week and the week after that. I am sure it''s looking very pretty on his shelf at home and I''m sure his wife looks forward to cleaning it every Monday morning, but for me personally it means nothing."

"He has scored the goals today, he has missed plenty recently and he has also scored some. He knows me well enough - I don''t say, ''bad luck'' when you miss an open goal. So he has come out and earned his wages this week, like they all have. He has got another ball to put on the shelf and a bit more work for his missus, dusting."

The way he talks about his players has always been a bit of a concern for me but now i''m really tired of it and think he goes way too far with all his sly remarks and digs. What''s all that about his wife polishing the golden boot!? That is basically Roeder saying that he thinks Cureton reckons he''s the business, that he''s done it all and that he''s just a lay about who doesn''t work for his wages because he''s dining out on his golden boot. And that''s just nonsense. Yes, Cureton has missed open goals, so has Dublin, so has Evans and he doesn''t say a word about them. Cureton also has 14 goals this season. Why is it that the way he treats Dublin and the way he treats Cureton is completely opposite?  They''re not so different - Cureton''s a veteran now and while he may not have had as distinguished a career as Dublin''s, he still has a pretty superb record wherever he has been so he doesn''t need to be treated like a child.  

And what''s this about?:

"I have been quite critical of Jon, he knows that inside the dressing room, but as I always say to the players, ''when you don''t do well the time to worry is when I come in and say nothing, then you''re history."

He seems to want the players to be fearing for their jobs evey day of the week. That might work short term, but in the end, all the stress it''s a recipe for problems down the line. For me he''s like Avram Grant at Chelsea. While he''s winning, he can stay but i will have very little time for him when things start going wrong. I''m sure i''m in the minority here, but i really don''t like him, sorry. 

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Agree to some extent, but think next season will be the time to judge Glenn. His track record has a history of poor 2nd seasons so i just hope he does not bring that here.

Gillingham 1st season-Saved from relegation. 2nd Season relegated

Watford 1st season-saved from relegation. 2nd season relegated

West ham 1st season-europe. 2nd season relegated

Newcastle 1st season-europe. 2nd season sacked hovering above relegation.

Ive been told these facts are correct but dont read this the wrong way. I think somehow Glenn has got some brilliant results out of a crap team and will always back the club 100%, i hope his 2nd season houdo does not continue.

Glenn has without doubt saved this club from relegation, i just hope the board back him so he can take us that step further. We need permanant squad members, not 8 loan players who couldnt give a stuff.

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I am sorry to disagree with you but Cureton shold have produced the goods a long time ago. I only hope that this is not just a flash in the pan and that he can carry on producing. However I do think that Glen should sometimes choose wiser words, but at the moment he is doing ok.

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disagree,i think roeder is right to keep cureton on his toes.after all, he wasm''t banging them in with evans or dubs along side every match, as soon as a good striker in rigters is signed, cureton bags a hat-trick.its competition and preventing the chris martins of this world ever happening.you dont applaud playersyou challenge them!

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You conveniently miss out this quote from Roeder on Cureton:

"He is paid to score goals and that is what he was bought here for. He has scored the goals today, he has missed plenty recently and he has also scored some. He knows me well enough - I don''t say, ''bad luck'' when you miss an open goal. So he has come out and earned his wages this week, like they all have.

"That''s his D''s and R''s - his dues and responsibilities to the team, to make goals for others and to score goals himself. He has got another ball to put on the shelf and a bit more work for his missus, dusting."

And this quote on Otsemobor:

"While I am still positively criticising you to make you a better player you know I am still with you''.

"Jon at times hasn''t done as well as he is capable of doing. I sometimes get frustrated with him because he has got a lot of attributes that go to make a very good footballer - power, pace, he passes the ball with the inside of his foot as hard and accurately as anyone I have seen, it''s a real good technique he has got there, and today is without doubt his best performance since I have been at the club, his best 90 minutes.

"I thought he contributed, apart from the goal, lots of good things in our play and the goal was fantastic, you would have thought he was an old hand striker the way that he tucked that one in and I''m really pleased for him and he should go home and enjoy his weekend because of his personal performance today."

Not as negative as you''ve made out, all seem reasonable to me...  If he''d just said the bits you''d quoted, fair enough you''d have a point - but you missed out some other important bits, imo.

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roedy also has an ''arm round the shoulder'' side as well A1.  he revealed how he helped shax at half time.  and also how he''s helped semmy improve.  he''s come on leaps and bounds under roedy.as far as i''m concerned, roedy has the right mix of skills to bring the best outa players - and get them to perform to the level of their abilities and beyond.  in my book, any successful manager must be able to do this. 

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When he joined this club it was riddled with complacency. Combine that with a low standard of player running through the heart of the team I think Glenn has worked wonders.

Criticism is some thing some people thrive on and some can''t take. It''s also something that some people don''t like to hear if it''s directed at people they like. Take Wiz for example. Quite happy to slag the Doc but won''t hear a word against Cureton. Why because of emotion, sentimentality maybe mentality or may be he''s just mental.

Criticism is something that can work with some people and not with others. Jamie is scoring goals at the moment that is what he get well paid to do. Has he scored enough. I''d say his ratio of goals to chances is poor but that just my prospective. You don''t know you may well find if you asked Jamie that question his answer might be the same. I feel he is his own biggest critic. He certainly looks very down about it when he misses those golden chances.

IF what you what is every body to be happy and all the players to be constantly praised then Man Utd is the team for you and Ronaldo is the player to make you hero.

Jamies a Championship striker who''s played in fits and starts all season, that’s what the manager is trying to point out. He trying to get a consistency from his players and trying to keep the balance between praise and reality.

Remember if everybody is doing their job that well week in week out we''d not be 17th and still only 5 point off relegation.

Men who can''t take criticism and a dose of reality and perspective are not any good to a club like us.

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I believe this is a good point well put by a1. I too am fed up with the need to constantly comment about Cureton who for me has scored goals in a side which makes few chances and has also won us some vital points with really well struck shots. If I was being hyper-critical I would say Jamie has missed out on the more mundane goals.

Roeder''s record is as an impact manager, perhaps players get fed up with him after an initial lift. What Roeder needs to do is to finally prove himself as a manager and let''s hope Norwich is where he does so.

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Don''t misunderstand me people - i like that he''s got people on their toes and agree completely that competition for places is paramount, as is constructive criticism.But Hardhouse, your Man Utd analogy is excellent. You don''t honestly think for one micro second that Lord Ferguson doesn''t criticise his players? That he doesn''t keep them on his toes? Of course he does. He just does it behind closed doors and certainly not in the press. Even when he drove Beckham or Stam or Van Nistelrooy out he never said a word about it to the press when it would have been all too easy to do so. If he wants to play psych games he does it with opposition teams and managers, not on his own players and certainly not via the press on his own players. He knows how damaging it can be and how out of control it can get. Hmm, thanks so much for pointing out the comparison - it illustrates my point perfectly!

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[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

I believe this is a good point well put by a1. I too am fed up with the need to constantly comment about Cureton who for me has scored goals in a side which makes few chances and has also won us some vital points with really well struck shots. If I was being hyper-critical I would say Jamie has missed out on the more mundane goals.

Roeder''s record is as an impact manager, perhaps players get fed up with him after an initial lift. What Roeder needs to do is to finally prove himself as a manager and let''s hope Norwich is where he does so.

[/quote]

I agree.

If roeder was just a good, well liked manager why did he have about 6 months out of the game and join a sorry sorry team bottom of the championship. Roeder does far to much sniping for me, unfortunately I was unable to make it to the meeting last week otherwise I would have asked him why he finds it necessary to attack certain players time and again and sections of the fans and media let expect himself to be above critism. Now next season I want him to walk the talk he constantly spews out. Attacking the players gets you nowhere, where did grant and worthy end up?

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I cant believe the amount of negative and critical comments about Roeders critical and negative comments. Pot... kettle... black

Different players need different treatment. The only way to judge a manager is by his results and so far Roeder has earnt the 100% support of the fans.

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Couldn''t disagree more. Thought he was spot on. If JC et al. can''t accept that level of criticism (hardly a vicious "attack" - more a bit of honesty allied to some mild leg-pulling) they must be a really thin-skinned bunch of primma donnas. And I don''t think for one second that they are.

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I''m sorry A1 but I think you''ve missed one of the most important aspects of management in your point. Not everyone needs to be treated the same in order to get the best out of them. Some need a kick up the ar$e, some need a shoulder to cry on some need encoragement - it all depends on the individual.

It''s Roeders job to know how best to treat his players. Compare how hes on at Jamie to keep producing week in week out with the way he has supported Shaxs about his error against Colchester and his public support of Patterson (support tht was clearly needed judging by the way Patterson left the field on saturday). Couple that with the way he shipped out the no hopers like Hartson and Murry at the drop of a hat and I think there is enough proff to show that we have a good man-manager on our hands.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Agree to some extent, but think next season will be the time to judge Glenn. His track record has a history of poor 2nd seasons so i just hope he does not bring that here.

Gillingham 1st season-Saved from relegation. 2nd Season relegated      First manager post so cut him some slack here.  Plus Gillingham have and always will be a weak team yo-yoing between 2 divisions

Watford 1st season-saved from relegation. 2nd season relegated   1st season, Watford favourites for relegation so in essence he over-achieved.  Following season sold a couple of keys players and normal service for Watford resumed

West ham 1st season-europe. 2nd season relegated   2nd season brain tumour and nearly lost his life, club managed by the inexperienced Trevor Brooking.  3rd season sacked after about 3/4 games.

Newcastle 1st season-europe. 2nd season sacked hovering above relegation.   2nd season had to face an injury crisis like you wouldn''t believe.  No fit strikers, 1 centre half (Titus!!), doubt too many managers could have done much better with it

Ive been told these facts are correct but dont read this the wrong way. I think somehow Glenn has got some brilliant results out of a crap team and will always back the club 100%, i hope his 2nd season houdo does not continue.

Glenn has without doubt saved this club from relegation, i just hope the board back him so he can take us that step further. We need permanant squad members, not 8 loan players who couldnt give a stuff.

[/quote]

The facts you Arthur are spot on but not everything is always black and white.  I think Glen has been an extremely unlucky manager in his time, heres hoping his luck is about to change. 

I echo your hope that the board do indeed give him the backing he needs this summer.  We need a whole host of good quality footballers, and if we do bulk the squad up with loans lets hope they are in the Bendtner, Larsson, Muamba mould.  No more James Henry''s.......This summer really is crunch time for the board.  I am not a board out poster as some are, but I really hope they have learnt a lesson this season.  Top investment on the pitch is absolutely paramount, plus a successful team will help boost the side line business deals.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Agree to some extent, but think next season will be the time to judge Glenn. His track record has a history of poor 2nd seasons so i just hope he does not bring that here.

Gillingham 1st season-Saved from relegation. 2nd Season relegated

Watford 1st season-saved from relegation. 2nd season relegated

West ham 1st season-europe. 2nd season relegated

Newcastle 1st season-europe. 2nd season sacked hovering above relegation.

Ive been told these facts are correct but dont read this the wrong way. I think somehow Glenn has got some brilliant results out of a crap team and will always back the club 100%, i hope his 2nd season houdo does not continue.

Glenn has without doubt saved this club from relegation, i just hope the board back him so he can take us that step further. We need permanant squad members, not 8 loan players who couldnt give a stuff.

[/quote]

They''re not. Glenn Roeder''s management career:

Gillingham 92/93- saved from relegation to the Conference. He only managed Gillingham for one season.

Watford 93/94 - 19th in the old League Division 1,  94/95 - 7th,  95/96 - sacked in February 96, Watford relegated with Graham Taylor in charge.

West Ham 01/02 - 7th in the Premier, 02/03 - collapsed with brain tumour April 03, West Ham relegated with Trevor Brooking in charge. 03/04 - sacked after 4 games (won 2, drawn 1, lost 1).

Newcastle 05/06 - appointed caretaker manager February 06, 7th in Premier, 06/07 resigned (as reported at the time) with one game to go - 13th

Norwich 07/08 - appointed manager October 2007, Norwich saved from relegation??

 

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Agree to some extent, but think next season will be the time to judge Glenn. His track record has a history of poor 2nd seasons so i just hope he does not bring that here.

Gillingham 1st season-Saved from relegation. 2nd Season relegated      First manager post so cut him some slack here.  Plus Gillingham have and always will be a weak team yo-yoing between 2 divisions

Watford 1st season-saved from relegation. 2nd season relegated   1st season, Watford favourites for relegation so in essence he over-achieved.  Following season sold a couple of keys players and normal service for Watford resumed

West ham 1st season-europe. 2nd season relegated   2nd season brain tumour and nearly lost his life, club managed by the inexperienced Trevor Brooking.  3rd season sacked after about 3/4 games.

Newcastle 1st season-europe. 2nd season sacked hovering above relegation.   2nd season had to face an injury crisis like you wouldn''t believe.  No fit strikers, 1 centre half (Titus!!), doubt too many managers could have done much better with it

[/quote]

Im not sure all of the above is true by any stretch, I don''t think he relehgated Gillingham.

 

Roeder''s record is pretty average, he has lost more than he has won.  I''m surprised by his record here, I thought it was better.  Having said that considering where we were when he took over I aint complaining!!

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
Norwich 30-10-2007 Present  291199
Newcastle 02-02-2006 06-05-2007 73332416
West Ham 01-07-2003 24-08-2003 4211
West Ham 09-05-2001 24-04-2003 82253522
Watford 01-08-1993 20-02-1996 139445540
Gillingham 01-08-1992 09-07-1993 51132216

The ''inexperienced'' Trevor Brooking almost saved the Hammers with his 2 wins a and a draw at the end of the season. Looks to me like he missed his occupation in life to me...

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
West Ham 24-08-2003 20-10-2003 11713
West Ham 24-04-2003 12-05-2003 3201

 

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Like i said im not sure those stats were accurate just what i heard. I hope the board goes out and back him, because if they fail to do that this year then it wont be just the odd 1 or 2 moaning. I think Glenn has been terrific so far and hope it continues.

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[quote user="The 4th Official"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Agree to some extent, but think next season will be the time to judge Glenn. His track record has a history of poor 2nd seasons so i just hope he does not bring that here.

Gillingham 1st season-Saved from relegation. 2nd Season relegated

Watford 1st season-saved from relegation. 2nd season relegated

West ham 1st season-europe. 2nd season relegated

Newcastle 1st season-europe. 2nd season sacked hovering above relegation.

Ive been told these facts are correct but dont read this the wrong way. I think somehow Glenn has got some brilliant results out of a crap team and will always back the club 100%, i hope his 2nd season houdo does not continue.

Glenn has without doubt saved this club from relegation, i just hope the board back him so he can take us that step further. We need permanant squad members, not 8 loan players who couldnt give a stuff.

[/quote]

They''re not. Glenn Roeder''s management career:

Gillingham 92/93- saved from relegation to the Conference. He only managed Gillingham for one season.

Watford 93/94 - 19th in the old League Division 1,  94/95 - 7th,  95/96 - sacked in February 96, Watford relegated with Graham Taylor in charge.

West Ham 01/02 - 7th in the Premier, 02/03 - collapsed with brain tumour April 03, West Ham relegated with Trevor Brooking in charge. 03/04 - sacked after 4 games (won 2, drawn 1, lost 1).

Newcastle 05/06 - appointed caretaker manager February 06, 7th in Premier, 06/07 resigned (as reported at the time) with one game to go - 13th

Norwich 07/08 - appointed manager October 2007, Norwich saved from relegation??

 

[/quote]

I believe at west ham Trevor brooking won every game he managed though so hes hardly to blame, also at watford they were rooted to the bottom when taylor took over-you might want to check those stats also. Im not having a pop at Roeder, i always back the team 100% and manager i just dont like the board and feel they will let us down again this summer.

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[quote user="Hairy Canary"]

I''m sorry A1 but I think you''ve missed one of the most important aspects of management in your point. Not everyone needs to be treated the same in order to get the best out of them. Some need a kick up the ar$e, some need a shoulder to cry on some need encoragement - it all depends on the individual.

It''s Roeders job to know how best to treat his players. Compare how hes on at Jamie to keep producing week in week out with the way he has supported Shaxs about his error against Colchester and his public support of Patterson (support tht was clearly needed judging by the way Patterson left the field on saturday). Couple that with the way he shipped out the no hopers like Hartson and Murry at the drop of a hat and I think there is enough proff to show that we have a good man-manager on our hands.

[/quote]Don''t apologies hairy, i appreciate what you''re saying and it is right that everyone needs to be treated according to how they respond best on the pitch. I just think the way GR chooses to ''motivate'' JC is wrong and ultimately counter productive. Ok he got a hat-trick when he was playing in a team that was playing well and against his old club who he plainly wanted to stick one on after his treatment at Layer Road. He wouldn''t have needed motivating. I don''t think GRs approach to handling him has helped him in general though. And as for all that business about his wife polishing his Golden Boot - well that''s just ridiculous! Not to mention a little revealing of his 19th century view of the role of women - wonder what Delia made of that!

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[quote user="a1canary"]

While he''s winning, he can stay but i will have very little time for him when things start going wrong. I''m sure i''m in the minority here, but i really don''t like him, sorry. 

[/quote]And do you "like" Ferguson, a1? Does that really matter? When things start going wrong, you''ll have no time for whoever was manager, if you''re a typical football fan. One thing''s for sure, the Club needed someone to shake up the culture of under-achievement that''s dogged us for 15 years. The players have taken a comfortable living for granted for too long, and needed to be reminded forcefully that they''re expected to work for their pay, like the rest of us. Whether Roeder''s going to do that long-term we''ll have to wait and see, but liking has nothing to do with whether he''s the right man for the job. Ignoring his rather irritating tone and his tendency to be over-sensitive, just about everything Roeder''s said about his players I''ve agreed with. For example, he''s right to keep the pressure on Cureton who, throughout his career, has under-achieved: I love him as a player, but he''s never done his talent justice. When you see him score a typical Cureton goal, you wonder why he he''s spent most of his career in the third tier of football - he''s much better than that. The same goes for his comments on Huckerby, Otsemobor, Dublin, Doherty etc.

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Cureton? under achieved? and now on 199 career goals................yeah right.

Back on tack:

The jury''s still out with me, yes, considering where we were before he came in, GR''s has worked miracles, but, his damn team selection tinkering, and his comments in the press about certain players leave a lot to be desired.................especially as he said in the first week here, that he wouldn''t talk about individual players when talking to the media!.[:|]

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Glenn''s comments about his own players echo the last manager incumbent to be honest and I think alot of fans feel uncomfortable when they read what he''s said.His comments after the Colchester game could have so easily been from Peter Grant , I think everyone would prefer it if he left his differences in the dressing room, the last manager to do that was Nigel Worthington and he''s been our best manager for a very,very long time. The stuff about Jason Shackell was particuliarly unnecessary, its almost as if he''s said "See that Jason Shackell performance today ? I was responsible for that, he would have been rubbish second half if I hadn''t of inspired him". I like Roeder alot and I think he''s a very intelligent football man but he would do well to discontinue these all bearing tangents that are probably going to ruffle a few canary feathers.  I  dont mind if he gives boring interviews and press conferences  if that means  saving  players  blushes.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

he said in the first week here, that he wouldn''t talk about individual players when talking to the media!.[:|]

[/quote]

Yeah Wiz mate, don''t you just hate it when people say one thing one day then just go and change their mind ! [;)][;)]

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Frankly the manager can say what he likes to the media as long as the players respect and understand what he was saying - that''s the difference between Grant and Roeder, Grant did not have the respect of the players so when he came out and criticised performances it simply antagonised the players even more.

I don''t really think Glenn criticised Semmy or Cureton by any great lengths, but has simply stated some facts. In recent matches they haven''t been performing at the level that they could but he clearly indicates that he believes in their ability. His praise of Semmy in particular is very high, and given Cureton has himself come out and said he should have performed better in recent matches I don''t think it''s unfair for the manager to refer to it, or for the manager to want his top striker to score goals.

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There''s only one way to answer this - see how Curo and Semmy get on for the rest of the season. If Jamie starts missing sitters again and Semmy disappears into a well of his own self-doubt, then we''ll know Roeder didn''t truly understand his player.

If they play well on the other hand, we''ll know Roeder really does have his finger on the pulse. Easy!

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I can''t get my head round all this at all  WHILE HE IS OUR MANAGER LET HIM MANAGE how he feels best ,   we have had a poor season only saved by the results achieved since Glenn arrived .              There seems some fans on here are only happy when they find something to have a rant about , this club needed a huge shake up and is getting one slowly but surely [ and please board back the manager this summer ] how the manager gee''s up players is up to him i don''t do favourites either but support whoever is chosen and expect them to produce consistently and earn their wages as i have to ...........come on city......................   

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