YankeeCanary 0 Posted April 15, 2008 [quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"] The reason that posters like Mr. Carrow use this forum to repeat their message of criticism against the majority owners of the club is to influence others. [/quote]1. Have you heard of freedom of speech?2. The criticism about the delay in signing Ashton is not unreasonable and this forum is an appropriate place to state that view. 3. ''To influence others'' - what do you think politicians do? I don''t believe it''s an illegal activity yet. What do you think you are trying to do if its not trying to influence people?Have a nice day![/quote] As I''ve told others who have the same difficulty as you, Canary Nut, you need to think before you post, assuming of course, that your intention is to make a valid point. You will notice ( if you think first ) that I have not criticised Mr. Carrow for trying to influence others. What I have pointed out, however, is that he''s not likely to be too influential by calling the population at large thick. Mr. Carrow, to his credit, acknowledged this point, while still maintaining that he thinks there is a grain of truth to there being some out there who are a little thick. He may have been referring to you Canary Nut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jetstream 0 Posted April 16, 2008 "One centre half (Doherty)Two wide midfielders (Jonson & Bentley)One centre midfielder (Safri)BUT NO FORWARDS."Doherty was signed as a forward / centre half - even though he himself was not keen on playing upfront and was coming here (in his eyes) as a CH. Was told this by the Doc himself at one of those Carrow Road dinner things.A crazy policy or a pragmatic one (spending £750k on getting a ''utility player'' to cover two spots) - you decide!Had NW spent the £750k on a dedicated striker things may have been different. Orpehaps he should have played Doc at CH from the start for his height instead of using two small men - Fleming and Simon Charlton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 16, 2008 [quote user="jetstream"]"One centre half (Doherty) Two wide midfielders (Jonson & Bentley) One centre midfielder (Safri) BUT NO FORWARDS." Doherty was signed as a forward / centre half - even though he himself was not keen on playing upfront and was coming here (in his eyes) as a CH. Was told this by the Doc himself at one of those Carrow Road dinner things. A crazy policy or a pragmatic one (spending £750k on getting a ''utility player'' to cover two spots) - you decide! Had NW spent the £750k on a dedicated striker things may have been different. Orpehaps he should have played Doc at CH from the start for his height instead of using two small men - Fleming and Simon Charlton.[/quote]This to me sums up perfectly the ineptitude of Worthy''s transfer policy. We can argue "until the cows come home", whether, or not, (probably not) Worthy had sufficent cash, but we can actually only judge him on who he signed and, by and large, he failed miserably. Saying that he only failed because he had an insufficent budget lets him off lightly and only tells part of the storey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted April 16, 2008 [quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"] The reason that posters like Mr. Carrow use this forum to repeat their message of criticism against the majority owners of the club is to influence others. [/quote]1. Have you heard of freedom of speech?2. The criticism about the delay in signing Ashton is not unreasonable and this forum is an appropriate place to state that view. 3. ''To influence others'' - what do you think politicians do? I don''t believe it''s an illegal activity yet. What do you think you are trying to do if its not trying to influence people?Have a nice day![/quote] As I''ve told others who have the same difficulty as you, Canary Nut, you need to think before you post, assuming of course, that your intention is to make a valid point. You will notice ( if you think first ) that I have not criticised Mr. Carrow for trying to influence others. What I have pointed out, however, is that he''s not likely to be too influential by calling the population at large thick. Mr. Carrow, to his credit, acknowledged this point, while still maintaining that he thinks there is a grain of truth to there being some out there who are a little thick. He may have been referring to you Canary Nut.[/quote]And of course we should pay close attention to those who think that they think - and end up seeking ways to excuse failures of leadership.But there again it''s Delia''s club, not ours, so it is not for us to wonder why is it? Just be grateful that we can sit around the throne every other Saturday for a few quid or so and ''enjoy'' the continual gladiatorial famine.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted April 16, 2008 [quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"] The reason that posters like Mr. Carrow use this forum to repeat their message of criticism against the majority owners of the club is to influence others. [/quote]1. Have you heard of freedom of speech?2. The criticism about the delay in signing Ashton is not unreasonable and this forum is an appropriate place to state that view. 3. ''To influence others'' - what do you think politicians do? I don''t believe it''s an illegal activity yet. What do you think you are trying to do if its not trying to influence people?Have a nice day![/quote] As I''ve told others who have the same difficulty as you, Canary Nut, you need to think before you post, assuming of course, that your intention is to make a valid point. You will notice ( if you think first ) that I have not criticised Mr. Carrow for trying to influence others. What I have pointed out, however, is that he''s not likely to be too influential by calling the population at large thick. Mr. Carrow, to his credit, acknowledged this point, while still maintaining that he thinks there is a grain of truth to there being some out there who are a little thick. He may have been referring to you Canary Nut.[/quote]And of course we should pay close attention to those who think that they think - and end up seeking ways to excuse failures of leadership.But there again it''s Delia''s club, not ours, so it is not for us to wonder why is it? Just be grateful that we can sit around the throne every other Saturday for a few quid or so and ''enjoy'' the continual gladiatorial famine.[/quote]If that''s what you''re continually choosing to do and you''re unhappy about it, perhaps you''d feel better applying a little thought process and doing something different Bly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted April 17, 2008 [quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"] The reason that posters like Mr. Carrow use this forum to repeat their message of criticism against the majority owners of the club is to influence others. [/quote]1. Have you heard of freedom of speech?2. The criticism about the delay in signing Ashton is not unreasonable and this forum is an appropriate place to state that view. 3. ''To influence others'' - what do you think politicians do? I don''t believe it''s an illegal activity yet. What do you think you are trying to do if its not trying to influence people?Have a nice day![/quote] As I''ve told others who have the same difficulty as you, Canary Nut, you need to think before you post, assuming of course, that your intention is to make a valid point. You will notice ( if you think first ) that I have not criticised Mr. Carrow for trying to influence others. What I have pointed out, however, is that he''s not likely to be too influential by calling the population at large thick. Mr. Carrow, to his credit, acknowledged this point, while still maintaining that he thinks there is a grain of truth to there being some out there who are a little thick. He may have been referring to you Canary Nut.[/quote]And of course we should pay close attention to those who think that they think - and end up seeking ways to excuse failures of leadership.But there again it''s Delia''s club, not ours, so it is not for us to wonder why is it? Just be grateful that we can sit around the throne every other Saturday for a few quid or so and ''enjoy'' the continual gladiatorial famine.[/quote]If that''s what you''re continually choosing to do and you''re unhappy about it, perhaps you''d feel better applying a little thought process and doing something different Bly. [/quote]Are you suggesting that the US Major League might be more stimulating?Watching that every week would surely be very different - one would think, if one could of course.By the way, do supporters in the US ever go to away matche sin any significant numbers, if at all??OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted April 17, 2008 Yankee Canary,How ironic it is that you criticise Mr Carrow for ''calling the population at large thick.'' Then you proceed to swim in the gutter of using personal abuse (aimed at. me) ! Using personal abuse is the sure sign of somebody losing the argument. You stated:''I think it demonstrates the elitist attitude that one or two of these posters like Mr. Carrow convey by their incessant attacks on those that run the club.''Are you including me in that statement? Have a nice day! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted April 17, 2008 [quote user="Canary Nut"]Yankee Canary,How ironic it is that you criticise Mr Carrow for ''calling the population at large thick.'' Then you proceed to swim in the gutter of using personal abuse (aimed at. me) ! Using personal abuse is the sure sign of somebody losing the argument. You stated:''I think it demonstrates the elitist attitude that one or two of these posters like Mr. Carrow convey by their incessant attacks on those that run the club.''Are you including me in that statement? Have a nice day![/quote]No, Canary Nut, I can honestly say I do not think of you as being qualified to be considered elitist.P.S: ( To Bly ) Bly, when did you ever feel the need to depend upon my suggestions? That is why I suggested you should apply a little of your own thought process to help with your unhappiness. With repect to your question on whether supporters ever go away, because of the scale of the country, everything here feels like it "away", even when it''s at home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted April 17, 2008 [quote user="YankeeCanary"]No, Canary Nut, I can honestly say I do not think of you as being qualified to be considered elitist.[/quote]So WHO (apart from Mr Carrow) are you having a go at ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corbs 0 Posted April 17, 2008 ''there is always next summer, or the summer after that''Well, yes, I hope so, and long may it be so, and I for one will keep enjoying my football and supporting my team (who just happen to be a team who alternate between the first and second tier of english football, a medium sized Club from a provincial City, and that''s the way I like it)! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted April 18, 2008 [quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"] No, Canary Nut, I can honestly say I do not think of you as being qualified to be considered elitist.[/quote]So WHO (apart from Mr Carrow) are you having a go at ?[/quote]Canary Nut, I''m not "having a go" at anyone. Like everyone else, I''m expressing an opinion on threads when I feel a response is called for. In your case, I simply reacted to your original comments to me which were incorrect. Before you accuse people of stating things you should read and think clearly so as to not appear foolish. Now, when I''ve answered your questions/points you ignore the answers and simply come up with a new question, which is boring to others I suggest. It certainly is to me, so I will refrain from further response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlyBlyBabes 0 Posted April 18, 2008 [quote user="corbs"]''there is always next summer, or the summer after that''Well, yes, I hope so, and long may it be so, and I for one will keep enjoying my football and supporting my team (who just happen to be a team who alternate between the first and second tier of english football, a medium sized Club from a provincial City, and that''s the way I like it)![/quote]You''re stretching rather far to try & make a point corbs.My dictionary says that alternate means to change repeatedly between two contrasting conditions.Unless of course you''re thinking of the SouthWatlingChase condition as opposed to the Smith condition. but these only fulfil the part relating to contrast. As for the other parts, well......Oh well.OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted April 18, 2008 [quote user="corbs"]''there is always next summer, or the summer after that''Well, yes, I hope so, and long may it be so, and I for one will keep enjoying my football and supporting my team (who just happen to be a team who alternate between the first and second tier of english football, a medium sized Club from a provincial City, and that''s the way I like it)![/quote]but who now appear to be closer to alternating between the second and third tier of English football. (not the way I like it) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crafty Canary 495 Posted April 20, 2008 At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted April 20, 2008 [quote user="crafty canary"]At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]Spot on mate but you are flogging a dead horse on this Forum.I''m beginning to think that Smudger and Cluck were right and that only relegation will force a change.GR saved their bacon when Granty went but we are getting very close to being back where we started.I fully endorse your final sentence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 24, 2008 [quote user="crafty canary"]At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]I agree with much of what you''ve said here. However, at the risk of being accused of being pro-board, there''s one issue I always struggle with. There can be little doubt that it''s the manager who decides on transfer targets and who to keep and who to let go. The question is, therefore, are his "targets" purely driven by his budget or not? Personally, I think our past managers have made some shocking selections for transfer targets, irrespective of the budget avaialble at the time, Worthy''s Premiership pre-season being a point in case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted April 25, 2008 [quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="crafty canary"] At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]I agree with much of what you''ve said here. However, at the risk of being accused of being pro-board, there''s one issue I always struggle with. There can be little doubt that it''s the manager who decides on transfer targets and who to keep and who to let go. The question is, therefore, are his "targets" purely driven by his budget or not? Personally, I think our past managers have made some shocking selections for transfer targets, irrespective of the budget avaialble at the time, Worthy''s Premiership pre-season being a point in case.[/quote]In our Prem pre-season Worthy spent about £2m then publicly stated that we couldn`t afford Crouch who went to Southampton a few weeks later for £2.5m. Does that suggest he had a decent chunk of the £20m tv money earned that year or not? We could only sign Ashton (too late) because of a £1.5m budget surplus caused by the non-redemption of the B shares. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeCanary 0 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="crafty canary"] At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]I agree with much of what you''ve said here. However, at the risk of being accused of being pro-board, there''s one issue I always struggle with. There can be little doubt that it''s the manager who decides on transfer targets and who to keep and who to let go. The question is, therefore, are his "targets" purely driven by his budget or not? Personally, I think our past managers have made some shocking selections for transfer targets, irrespective of the budget avaialble at the time, Worthy''s Premiership pre-season being a point in case.[/quote]In our Prem pre-season Worthy spent about £2m then publicly stated that we couldn`t afford Crouch who went to Southampton a few weeks later for £2.5m. Does that suggest he had a decent chunk of the £20m tv money earned that year or not? We could only sign Ashton (too late) because of a £1.5m budget surplus caused by the non-redemption of the B shares.[/quote]Despite the Crouch purchase yielding Southampton a good profit when he moved on, it didn''t seem to help them achieving any better results in maintaining league position superiority versus Norwich. Also, financially, they seem to be in worse shape than we are. They must be like a lot of other clubs ( like Norwich ) and not have conducted sufficient on-pitch investment. I wonder why when, according to some, it''s such a no brainer. When taking into account the 20 million pound + that Southampton yielded from the sale of Crouch, Theo Walcott and Kenwyne Jones alone, it almost makes Norwich look "saintly" in comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,273 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="crafty canary"] At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]I agree with much of what you''ve said here. However, at the risk of being accused of being pro-board, there''s one issue I always struggle with. There can be little doubt that it''s the manager who decides on transfer targets and who to keep and who to let go. The question is, therefore, are his "targets" purely driven by his budget or not? Personally, I think our past managers have made some shocking selections for transfer targets, irrespective of the budget avaialble at the time, Worthy''s Premiership pre-season being a point in case.[/quote]In our Prem pre-season Worthy spent about £2m then publicly stated that we couldn`t afford Crouch who went to Southampton a few weeks later for £2.5m. Does that suggest he had a decent chunk of the £20m tv money earned that year or not? We could only sign Ashton (too late) because of a £1.5m budget surplus caused by the non-redemption of the B shares.[/quote]Despite the Crouch purchase yielding Southampton a good profit when he moved on, it didn''t seem to help them achieving any better results in maintaining league position superiority versus Norwich. Also, financially, they seem to be in worse shape than we are. They must be like a lot of other clubs ( like Norwich ) and not have conducted sufficient on-pitch investment. I wonder why when, according to some, it''s such a no brainer. When taking into account the 20 million pound + that Southampton yielded from the sale of Crouch, Theo Walcott and Kenwyne Jones alone, it almost makes Norwich look "saintly" in comparison. [/quote]I don''t suppose Mr (I wore my tracksuit with my initials on - whilst watching the squad train) "Rambling ''reckless Rupert (Swing Lowe)" and his ''ideas'', business acumen and ''leadership'' (can I come back and rectify the Southampton situation....Pleeze?) had anything to do with Southampton''s recent financial and football floundering?......Are we actually any better off than Southampton? (Apart from being slightly above them in the league?).....I think the board at Carra have spent too much time aiming at their ''targets'' with the "Wayward Wonga Weapon''s" ''hindsight''.....When using the combination of the weapon''s ''hindsight and foresight'' might have allowed us to hit the proposed/supposed targets - and therefore achieve a respectable grouping......Maybe if our ''Directionless'' had gone telescopic, instead of myopic......We wouldn''t be in the current low-scoring situation and the only actual bull we are hitting....is the proverbial sh*t......[:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="crafty canary"] At the risk of being accused of being elitist for daring to post a view Yankee doesn''t agree with, I would say that the board of NCFC alone are wholly culpable of the ridiculous situation our club finds itself in.They alone are the ones to make the decisions about our club. As fans we can express our views and opinions on various aspects of the club but only they have the power to act. They alone are responsible for appointments such as Hamilton, Walker (second reign) and Grant. They alone decide whether and what money will be available to managers such as Rioch who resigned because of lack of investment and possibly Roeder this summer. They alone prevaricated over sacking Worthington until a third of the season nearly had passed rather then the previous close-season so giving a new man a chance of getting us off on the right foot. They alone have decided that spending money on non-urgent fixed assets such as the community stand was a better idea than buying Ashton at the start of the Premiership season when his goals would have kept us up rather than waiting until January when it wasn''t quite enough. They alone make excuses about ambition with prudence and then fritter away £30M Premiership money + £14M parachute payments without showing either ambition or prudence in addressing the club''s debt. Instead they treat us like fools with their incessant spin about our finances. Quite how clubs like Burnley, Plymouth, Cardiff and Ipswich (until the Evans arrival) can CONSISTENTLY out performance us with much more financial problems than ourselves gives the lie to their duplicitous PR.Remember how players would be replaced one-for-one when we returned to the Championship? Didn''t happen!Remember how we were going to have the big push the second season down and only Croft was brought in at the eleventh hour? Didn''t happen!Remember how the Earnshaw, Etuhu and Safri money was going to the manager for replacements? Didn''t happen!Remember how the players were on status related contracts so that on relegation they would retirn to Championship wages? Didn''t happen! Instead the parachute payments were fritted away on maintaining the Premiership incomes of League One quality and performance players.Unfortunately there''s nothing we as fans can do about it except to make our feelings known and ultimately to stay away. However the club is the Wynne-Jonses'' plaything and as long as it can keep going the fans can go take a running jump.If we are to be relegated (i believe we will survive on GD from Southampton) then the Board must be convinced to go. [/quote]I agree with much of what you''ve said here. However, at the risk of being accused of being pro-board, there''s one issue I always struggle with. There can be little doubt that it''s the manager who decides on transfer targets and who to keep and who to let go. The question is, therefore, are his "targets" purely driven by his budget or not? Personally, I think our past managers have made some shocking selections for transfer targets, irrespective of the budget avaialble at the time, Worthy''s Premiership pre-season being a point in case.[/quote]In our Prem pre-season Worthy spent about £2m then publicly stated that we couldn`t afford Crouch who went to Southampton a few weeks later for £2.5m. Does that suggest he had a decent chunk of the £20m tv money earned that year or not? We could only sign Ashton (too late) because of a £1.5m budget surplus caused by the non-redemption of the B shares.[/quote]I''ve always said that I was surprised we didn''t make more of an effort to sign a decent striker pre-season and that I''ve always said that I was surprised at how little we actually spent. However, that doesn''t excuse the facts that:-a) managers are always complaining that their budgets are never enough andb) worthy made some shocking transfer choices in the Premiership pre-season.If you want to blame that purely on a lack of budget, then fair do''s, but he still managed to "blow" £2M on the likes of two reserve goalkeepers and a couple of dodgy full backs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted April 26, 2008 City were crying out for a target man that season YC and as soon as Ashton arrived we showed mid-table form. Southamptons problem was an appalling defence. But trying to compare us to other clubs is a weak argument. Unless you haven`t noticed we are near the bottom of our division with the second highest crowds, having recently received tens of millions in tv and transfer monies and are being outperformed by many clubs who have not had that money and who attract vastly lower crowds. I don`t know why Southampton have struggled so much and i doubt it is relevent to us, but i wouldn`t mind betting they are still paying for that lovely, expensive, half-full stadium they have...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted April 26, 2008 GazzaTCC, i thought most of that £2m went on Safri and Doherty- both good players who made a good contribution- and Jonsson who disapointed but was sold on for a profit. As ever, the real disapointments were cheap or free, and you already know why i think we had to resort to them and i think the fact we couldn`t afford Crouch proves it was a ridiculously tiny budget. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="Mr.Carrow"]GazzaTCC, i thought most of that £2m went on Safri and Doherty- both good players who made a good contribution- and Jonsson who disapointed but was sold on for a profit. As ever, the real disapointments were cheap or free, and you already know why i think we had to resort to them and i think the fact we couldn`t afford Crouch proves it was a ridiculously tiny budget.[/quote]But doesn''t your point about the cheapies actually reinforce my point, Worthy always said he wouldn''t bring in new players who weren''t any better than he already had, yet he did just that time and again. It''s for that reason why I hold him partly responsible for I demise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,507 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="GazzaTCC"]But doesn''t your point about the cheapies actually reinforce my point, Worthy always said he wouldn''t bring in new players who weren''t any better than he already had, yet he did just that time and again. It''s for that reason why I hold him partly responsible for I demise.[/quote]I''m not sure he did. He made some mistakes and the crucial ones were probably Hughes and Jarrett in 2005 but in the main Worthy''s signings improved the quality of the squad. Even Thorne and MLJ were not bad signings in quality, they were just injured the entire time. You could blame the medical staff for this if you believe that the players were injured when signed, but I don''t really see how you could blame Worthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="nutty nigel"]I''m not sure he did. He made some mistakes and the crucial ones were probably Hughes and Jarrett in 2005 but in the main Worthy''s signings improved the quality of the squad. Even Thorne and MLJ were not bad signings in quality, they were just injured the entire time. You could blame the medical staff for this if you believe that the players were injured when signed, but I don''t really see how you could blame Worthy. [/quote]They were NEEDLESS signings, Edworthy and Svensson were sent on their way without much effort to keep them on, and replaced by two inferior players. Acording to Worthy we had a wealth of midfielders... lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Carrow 376 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="GazzaTCC"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]GazzaTCC, i thought most of that £2m went on Safri and Doherty- both good players who made a good contribution- and Jonsson who disapointed but was sold on for a profit. As ever, the real disapointments were cheap or free, and you already know why i think we had to resort to them and i think the fact we couldn`t afford Crouch proves it was a ridiculously tiny budget.[/quote]But doesn''t your point about the cheapies actually reinforce my point, Worthy always said he wouldn''t bring in new players who weren''t any better than he already had, yet he did just that time and again. It''s for that reason why I hold him partly responsible for I demise.[/quote]Worthy certainly has to take some of the blame and that comment was certainly pretty daft, but if a manager doesn`t have a realistic budget what is he supposed to do? Steal players? Bargain players can be found and it makes sense for a club to look out for them but they are rare. If you look at it most of Worthy and Grants more expensive signings have been successful and most of the cheapo`s and freebies have been a waste of space, so the boards favoured "bargain basement" policy obviously hasn`t worked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,507 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]I''m not sure he did. He made some mistakes and the crucial ones were probably Hughes and Jarrett in 2005 but in the main Worthy''s signings improved the quality of the squad. Even Thorne and MLJ were not bad signings in quality, they were just injured the entire time. You could blame the medical staff for this if you believe that the players were injured when signed, but I don''t really see how you could blame Worthy. [/quote]They were NEEDLESS signings, Edworthy and Svensson were sent on their way without much effort to keep them on, and replaced by two inferior players. Acording to Worthy we had a wealth of midfielders... lol[/quote]We had no option with Svensson. He got a good deal that no English side would have matched and he went home. Edworthy you may have a point with but to be fair ALL managers make mistakes and I still believe overall Worthy brought in good players. Now I''m a Russell fan Foggy but Worthy let him go and brought in Francis and then Etuhu, now we are back with Russell and that little loop sums up the clubs loop this century for me. I guess the difference between myself and you is the extent we point the finger of blame. But there is a fine line between success and failure. Was there that much difference between the quality of our squad in 03/04 and our squad in 05/06 and yet the difference in results was huge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted April 26, 2008 [quote user="nutty nigel"]We had no option with Svensson. He got a good deal that no English side would have matched and he went home. Edworthy you may have a point with but to be fair ALL managers make mistakes and I still believe overall Worthy brought in good players. Now I''m a Russell fan Foggy but Worthy let him go and brought in Francis and then Etuhu, now we are back with Russell and that little loop sums up the clubs loop this century for me. I guess the difference between myself and you is the extent we point the finger of blame. But there is a fine line between success and failure. Was there that much difference between the quality of our squad in 03/04 and our squad in 05/06 and yet the difference in results was huge. [/quote]I dunno, the defense and midfield in 05/06 was dreadful... As for Russell, I like him, but there is a reason he has never managed a top 6 finish in this league and never moved on from Stoke apart from a downward move back to city... Francis was excellent for us in this league, Etuhu, who knows what was up with him, i will never rate him based on his performances for our club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 27, 2008 [quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="GazzaTCC"] [quote user="Mr.Carrow"]GazzaTCC, i thought most of that £2m went on Safri and Doherty- both good players who made a good contribution- and Jonsson who disapointed but was sold on for a profit. As ever, the real disapointments were cheap or free, and you already know why i think we had to resort to them and i think the fact we couldn`t afford Crouch proves it was a ridiculously tiny budget.[/quote]But doesn''t your point about the cheapies actually reinforce my point, Worthy always said he wouldn''t bring in new players who weren''t any better than he already had, yet he did just that time and again. It''s for that reason why I hold him partly responsible for I demise.[/quote]Worthy certainly has to take some of the blame and that comment was certainly pretty daft, but if a manager doesn`t have a realistic budget what is he supposed to do? Steal players? Bargain players can be found and it makes sense for a club to look out for them but they are rare. If you look at it most of Worthy and Grants more expensive signings have been successful and most of the cheapo`s and freebies have been a waste of space, so the boards favoured "bargain basement" policy obviously hasn`t worked.[/quote]A bit of a "chicken or egg" type arguement really. Yep, the Board sets the budget, but the manager selects the transfer targets. Personally, I''d much rather the manager went for quality, rather than quantity, and, by and large, it seems to me that Worthy went for the latter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMF 735 Posted April 27, 2008 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="GazzaTCC"] But doesn''t your point about the cheapies actually reinforce my point, Worthy always said he wouldn''t bring in new players who weren''t any better than he already had, yet he did just that time and again. It''s for that reason why I hold him partly responsible for I demise.[/quote]I''m not sure he did. He made some mistakes and the crucial ones were probably Hughes and Jarrett in 2005 but in the main Worthy''s signings improved the quality of the squad. Even Thorne and MLJ were not bad signings in quality, they were just injured the entire time. You could blame the medical staff for this if you believe that the players were injured when signed, but I don''t really see how you could blame Worthy. [/quote]I think we''ll have to beg to differ on that one Nutty. If you remember the stated target when we made the Premiership was, "we''ll aim for 17th place, if we fail, we''ll aim to come back with a stronger squad."Yes, there''s always going to be certain player departures following relegation, but Worthy''s "dream team" to get us promoted straight back was Louis-Jean, Colin, Jarrett, Hughes and Thorne, with Marney on loan. Hardly inspiring is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites