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Mook

Cold sweat

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I was having a daydream on the bus home today, thinking of how sad it is we''ve lost Crouchy and I hope we get him back and stuff and then AAAARRRGHHHH - I was struck by the very real prospect that we have games coming up, and we could be back to Iwan up front again soon. Oh my God.

I''m not arguing with what he has done in the past and I am grateful, but striking is about recent history (I''m looking at you, Robbie Fowler) and Iwan has done less than nothing in a season and a half. He makes Heskey look like Gerd Muller. Ok, a tap in or two this season, but if Hucks hadn''t left him with nothing but the white line to beat then it probably would have been the same old goalless story.

I hope if he does play he proves me wrong, but what I hope more is we can find an adequate (although he won''t be as good) replacement for Crouch. As I''ve said before, I can''t face watching Iwan fall over forwards trying to get a foul for 90 mins.

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Cold sweat aint the half of it!

For those who doubt that this is a real nightmare waiting to happen you only need to watch the last 2 games Iwan started for us - the 2-1 home defeat and 1-0 away defeat to the baggies. In both games Iwans contribution was negligible with the ONLY highlights being the aforementioned ability to topple, rather than fall, forwards or alterntively conceeding free kicks by folding his arms around his own back to hold onto his opponent, as he waits for the ball arrive. He has lost his ability to bring others into the game and his searing pace is now as legendary as the man himself. If a target man cant get to the ball to hold it up or bring his colleagues into the game his value to the team is nil.

Iwan being a starting striker is no longer an option and I hope that we get to see the movement of Jarvis with Hucks this saturday - the following sunday sees no current alternative to Iwan starting unless NW changes his mind and uses McVeigh and Jarvis up front - even with Ipswichs porous defence I fear that as an attacking force we will be toothless.

Even as a sub Iwans contributions have been minimal and it really is time for him to move aside for the youngsters as thats all we have got left.

B4 the waves of outrage come in the man is a legend - I just want to remember him for moments like the millenium stadium rather than Watford at home...

Please NW pull something out of the bag before the 21st...

OTBC

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With great respect Zipper, its not Worthy you should be appealing to, but this damn, cowardly board of ours (they really don''t deserve fans like the city faithfull)

We HAD the BEST chance for 9 misrable years to get out of this division, and what do they do?, throw it all away it looks like!.

What was the b***dy point in getting in the holy trio in the first place?, (unless to ensure against relegation!) and then let it slip away, because trust me, it will.

Does this board (and I include saint Delia in this) really believe they can sustain 2nd place with the likes of Iwan, young Jarvis and Henderson, because if they do, then the lunatics have really taken over the asylum!. I also include Neil Adams in this (although not a board member) who''s optimism is bordering on the sycophantic in the pink un at times.

The ''binners'' must be wetting themselves with the prospect of another crushing derby victory in a couple of weeks time.

Gee thanks Doomcaster and Co!.

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I didnt see either of the games you mention so you may entirely right about Iwan''s contribution to them. But I dont think that''s been true throughout the season.

A more positive example might be Bramall Lane where we must have played about 70 mins without remotely looking like scoring, we hadnt even produced a shot on target and should have been 4 not 1 down. When Iwan came on he totally changed the game and we spent the last twenty minutes pressing for an equaliser. OK we didnt get it but it was damn sight better than anything than had gone before and it was down to Iwan galvanising the team into some sort of action.

I accept that you cant play him just a captain but he does lead the team in a way that no else in the squad, and certainly not Drury, can.

And while I''m defending him I may as well point out that he, like most strikers, relies on service and the service that he''s received for the last couple of years (apart from the recent exception of Huckerby and Harper) has been absolute rubbish.

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i''m really sick of your nonsense wizard. how many times do you have to be told about the reality of the situation before it gets thro to you? you''re living in another world.
just tell me, if you were doncaster and the board, what you would have done? come on, i really want to know where you would have got the money from? baring in mind the countless number of times you have been told that we can not borrow any more money, or "speculate to accumulate."
(and just to remind you for the 100th time that''s because we''ve nothing left to secure a loan against. banks work in the real world, they don''t accept the "possibility" of promotion as security against a loan.)

In the meantime, i should remind you that NW and the board are doing all they can to bring in more players - they are well aware of the fact that the present position can''t be sustained with the present squad. Don''t you think the impact of the loan players has underlined that - of course you do, and so do the board so stop droning at them to do things that are outside of their control. it''s really boring.

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Totally agree 1stWizard it looks like we will have to put up with this horrendous league for ever more and to make matters worse i fear a heavy Derby defeat and the Blue Scum ending up in the Premiership come May!!

How hard is that gonna be to take?

Dreams and ambitions are dashed by our lacklustre board!!

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1st Wizz the reason I plead with Worthy to pull something out of the hat is that Doomcaster did tell us to watch this space which suggests that the ball is in NWs court. Admittedly this is likely to be with ludicrous financial constraints but last time he went hunting NW pulled Crouch and Hucks out of the hat - I am just hoping he can do it again before next Sunday.

I agree that Iwan did have an impact against the blades; he was also impressive against
the youngs defenders of Wimbledon - however these are just two games in 18 appearances - in just about every other game this season Iwan has been ineffective and occasionally a liability to the team.

I accept using him as a sub so that the tiring defence give him a chance but starting with him is not likely to be a winning option. I would love him to prove me wrong and grab a goal or 3 on saturday but his performance so far this season dont support that...

OTBC

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I don''t need reminding 100 times A1 canary, but sometime I find excuses why we CANNOT do this and that, quite boring too! (do you have private access to sensitive boardroom details?)

You know and I know that deals and bargining go on all the time in football these days (even HP payments are not unheard of) and how often, please tell me, do 3 loan players instantly gel and bond with the rest of the team, once in a blue moon, I would suggest.

It would be a damn shame to waste this blue moon A1, instead of looking for reasons why we can''t sign em, look for reasons why we can and MUST!.

I''m sorry if I continue to bore you, but other respected posters seem to agree with me on this, so I''m afraid I will just keep ''banging on'', with those good people in mind, sorry A1 its THAT important to us.

PS. Nice new stand init, hope you enjoy it half full, when we''re mid table or lower come May.

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Spot on A1 Canary. 1st Wizzard, wake up and feel the financial reality !!!

There are too many people round hear who are only too eager to point the finger at the Board when things don''t go as they want, totally ignoring the financial situation we are in.

There''s no point "burying your heads in the sand" here.

Fact. We lost over £4m last year.
Fact. We are highly likely to have a similar operating loss next year.
Fact. Crouch always said he wanted to prove himself in the Premiership, preferably with Villa.
Fact. Crouch was always on a 3 month loan and O''Leary made that clear from day one.
Fact. Huckerby could still sign, but the chances are slim.

None of the above has anything to do with the Board being short sighted or wanting to remain in this division. On the contary, they want to get the the Premiership as soon as possible. They seriously recognise the financial situation we are in, unlike some here.

If you speak to them, and I have, there are many things happening behind the scenes. However, you have to realise, that in the majority of situations, they are hardly likely to broadcast such details in advance. If you want to call that a lack of ambition, so be it.

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Iwan as a starter:
Whats the issue? A legend he may be, but solution to our problems he isn''t. Would we be happy with Gunn back in goal - no. Why, because he''s past it. So is Roberts, fact.

Iwan coming from off the bench:
As a sub he may have the type of galvanising effect mentioned on these posts. Stamina wise it would suit him. If he bangs in a few, good, but if he doesn''t then nobody should be surprised.

McVeigh/Jarvis should at least cause a headache, rather than allowing the opposition defence to get comfortable.

1st Wizard: hello. "What was the b***dy point in getting in the holy trio in the first place?" The answer is in the question. The b***dy point was to get points. We have no cash to buy players, therefore any new players have to be loan signings or Academy starlets. Starlets we got, loanees we got. And more loanees will come because we have a few loan slots to fill. And yes, I reckon the board "probably" realise this fact... (bumpkins they may be, k**b-ends they''re not)

As for the Tractor boys, man, its got defeat written all over it. For the scum that is - they are getting ideas above their station and Sheep#ank is as deluded as that idiot of a manager. The further up the table they go the farther away from reality they get. Our away form is terrible - therefore certain [!] that we will pick up the 3pts.

OTBC

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To quote your own words back at you wizard:
"other respected posters seem to agree with me on this..."

You''re entitled to expect mid table mediocrity of your team if that''s what you expect, but i expect, believe and am confident of at least play off place for mine. I promise to come back here in May and be ridiculed if not.
It''s so much easier to say - "we''re gonna do rubbish," "we''re not gonna fill the stand" etc, backed up with "oh, i''d love it if i was wrong, i hope i am," etc.

Well i believe we''re gonna be repeatedly getting 23 to 24 thousand in Carrow Road after Feb, and i believe we''re gonna be in the top six. And i''ll hate it if i''m wrong, i''ll be gutted.

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Wizard, your arguments remind me of Stan, one of the charactors out of the Life of Brian.

Sat in the coliseum Stan announces he wants to be a woman and have babies.
When it is explained to him that as a man and therefore without a womb it would be impossible, Stan claims he is being oppressed, so it is agreed that the group will fight for his right to have babies. This is seen as a symbolic struggle against oppression.
Reg (John Cleese) replies " It''s symbolic of his struggle against reality."

Nowhere have you explained where the money is to come from. Nowhere have you given us a guarantee that signing ANY specific players ensures us certain promotion.

Nowhere have you been able to state what the future plans of the board/manager are and what is wrong with them.

You''ve never addressed any or the arguments put forward merely dismissing them as excuses.

Perhaps then you might explain why you and the few others who regularly endulge is this fantasy world haven''t stumped up a million or so between you to pay for one of the loanees.

And no ''excuses'' either as I can easily find ''reasons'' why somebody who constantly berates the board for it''s supposed lack of ambition shouldn''t show a bit of ambition of their own.

As to you statement about half empty stands there I can nod some sort of agreement. It is almost certain that the old South Stand would have been refused another safety certificate. A three sided stadium with attendances below 14,000 would be a real money spinner inthe Premiership assuming they let us in and your much claimed surefire plan got us there.

14000 - not enough for us to survive in the Nationwide let alone the Premier.

Yes Wizard we can all dream. Just would help if a few of us woke up occasionally.

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Quote the Life of Brian if you like, I believe I could easily ''out quote'' you Master Green and A1 regarding that film, and I suppose A1 and Master Green are Brian''s mum and I''m Bigus Dickus!.

But seriously to suggest why have''nt I donated 1 million is quite frankly ridiculous!, who''s to say I would''nt, if I had it. but somebody may have.

I''m sorry if I''ve ''been a very naughty boy'', but I''ve seen this scenario all before. I suppose when fellow city supporters and I stood protesting outside Carrow Road on a snowy Boxing day, demostrating against the fat man, you were both the voice''s of reason defending him!.

Now I don''t belive for one minute that this board are in his league, however, please read my posts carefully, I cannot , and do not offer fancy solutions to appease you good fellows, because quite simply, and I''m assuming here, you and I don''t have unlimted access to certain information.

So ''wake up! it finally happening Reg'', Crouch has gone ( ok I''ll cocede to you on that) but Huckerby and Harper aint YET, you seem to admit that the trio where brought, in the effot to gain points, are you admitting then, that the current squad is''nt strong enough to get them, If so thats been my blinking point all along!.

I do take your points about the new stands though, the board SAY they had NO other options.

Help, Its the Judean popular front!...................

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Wizard - fod God''s sake, stop. Listen. Think. I can''t imagine a better slagging of of our club, Board and prospects coming from Ipswich fan, or Chris Kamara. (And he knows his stuff.)

If the Board are so cowardly and useless, then here is your chance to show how much better it can be done. All you have to do is get in touch with David O''Leary and convince him to loan Crouch out for the rest of the season.

Or, get in touch with the Board and give them the benefit of your ideas as to how we can raise the 2.5m or whatever might be required to sign him.

If you do either of those things I (and no doubt others) shall applaud you.

You''re right about the best chance to get promotion in 9 years. I think everyone connected with the club will agree with you on that one.

I just find it difficult to see at this stage, level with second place in the table, how exactly it has all been thrown away. At least, not yet it hasn''t.

Jeez, you''re not even complaining about what the club have done. You''re complaining about what you think they are not going to do in the future. That takes some doing even for a football fan!! Imagine if they had ballsed it up?

Ama

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All fairpoints Armirillo, so just for you and the others, I''ll keep my big gob shut on this matter till May OK, (another blow against free speech) If you''re all proved right, trust me I will grovel big time!. But if not, be prepared for me, then watch me rant!.

If you think the binners could''nt do worst then me, my friend, just wait till, like me, you get assaulted at Porteloo Road by them, my crime? wearing Yellow and Green there, in the late sixties!.

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1st Wizard

I don''t think anyone here is against you holding your opinion, even though many disagree with it. Indeed, it is shared by many others on this site. Likewise, there''s no rule suggesting you should keep your mouth shut until May. Many just seem to think that you''re ignoring the financial reality of where we are at.

This squad is the smallest I can remember for many a year and there are many reasons for that. Added to the fact that the "Loan market" has changed dramatically over the last few seasons, partly explains why we have gone down the route we have. You either play the loan game, or get lefted behind. Sometimes it works, others it doesn''t - (just who is Elvis Hammond?).

There''s one heck of a difference between loaning three players for three months at circa half million quid and buying one player, let''s call him Huckerby, when the total package, (transfer fees, wages, pension contributions etc), over a three or four year period is likely to in excess of £4m.

I strongly suspect that there will be further ventures into the loan market in the foreseeable future.

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Wizard, I would never suggest you are Bickus Dickus - though your posts may lead others to think otherwise.

Your reply about you not donating a million proves the point. Nobody is saying City wouldn''t invest if they had the money, but like you and the rest of us they don''t have it. And the ''somebody who may have it '' is going to keep it that way. They have it not us.

A point about Chase. Could you please explain the position the club were in in 1985 when he took over.

Yes Wizard we all know the squad isn''t strong enough, we know it can and should be strenghthened but if that is your only gripe then you are preaching to the converted.

Unless of course what I suspect is this just a general gripe at the board on your part.

You''ve all along actually been Reg (not Stan) out of the Life Of Brian and what''ve you really want to say is " what have the board ever done for us."


Joint 2nd in the table,
Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That''s true.

A half decent manager
All right, I''ll grant you that joint 2nd in the table and a half decent manager are two things that the Board HAS done ...

Financial stability
Well YES OBVIOUSLY financial stability ... financial stability goes without saying

Best chance of promotion in 9 years
yeh, well maybe that

A new stand...... remember what the old one used to be like
Yes ... all right, fair enough ...

Highest ever season ticket sales, increased catering sales, long term sponsorship

All right ... all right ... but apart from joint 2nd in the table and a half decent manager and financial stability and the best chance of promotion in 9 years and a new stand and highest ever season ticket sales and increased catering sales, long term sponsorship what HAVE the board done for US ?

So Wizard stop being a Sillius Soddus and join the rest of us

When you''re chewing on life''s gristle,
Don''t grumble, give a whistle!
And this''ll help things turn out for the best.........

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"Financial Stability" - from a small profit to 4.6 million debt in 11 months ! and yet,
"Highest ever season season ticket sales,increased catering sales,sponsorship",not to mention highest ever merchandise sales,and one of the smallest squads in Div.1 with a tight wage structure.Do you really have confidence in our board ?
They found 700k to pay off players no longer required,they found money to ''do up'' the kitchens and extend the restaurants,but when it comes to investing in the team,there''s no money,it''s too risky."Obviously financial stabilty" - Don''t make me laugh

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They did not ''find £700k'' to pay off players. It would have already been budgeted for as part of contractual obligations. All they did is cut their losses by agreeing to pay a lesser amount due now as a one off payment.

To suggest that the club should have used that money to pay over inflated wage demands on the hope that it might lead to promotion is not only foolish but as business practise it is at best naive and at worst downright reckless.

To fail to meet contractual obligations would leave us open to administration.

Likewise the catering. It returns a net profit so any money invested would have been generated from it''s own activities in the first place.

Where is the claim that there is no money to invest in the team ? I should add speculate, because any player taken on contract is a gamble as the players that cost us £700,000 to pay off amply prove.

What there is not is a bottomless pit to meet any demands however far fetched they are.

The board has NOT said there is no more money merely that, for a variety of reasons, it seems highly unlikely that any of the three loanees will stay with us.

The club has got us to joint second.

Let us wait and see what they intend to do to keep us there before shouting the odds.

You ask if I have confidence in our board. I do.

It is idiots like yourself that I don''t have confidence in.

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hiya guys, sorry haven''t been on here for a while, lots of stuff to sort out!!

1st wiz

thank god for you mate, i agree with you 100%, we have to take a chance and buy Huckerby if we are ever going to get out of this league.

We haven''t got a promotion winning team without the loan players, fact. Worthy brought them in and was quoted as saying he (we) needed quality players.

Without them (well at least Hucks and Crouch) we will NOT finish in automatic promotion and unless at least 10 other teams have a really bad season, won''t finish in the play offs either. I am STILL confident that Hucks will do a deal (something is happening, well it was last night, see ncfc-fans.co.uk and the official site); if this is so, great, what i have been praying for since September. I would have loved Crouch to stay too, hopefully he could come back at a later stage, when O''Leary realises he can''t offload him for megabucks!

All i want is for the board (for once in their lives) to take the chance (not risk, it is not a risk buying a player who can cut it and is head and shoulders above the rest of the division), and buy him. Hucks has contributed SO much to our season, if he goes we will not sustain the form we have enjoyed, sorry, but we won''t. You can call me negative, pessimistic, all the names under the sun, but i really and truly believe we have to go for it.

Yes, we don''t have pots of money, yet nor do the other clubs in this division, with the exception of wigan and the relegated crew. But to get to the premiership we have to do something, hoping our squad is good enough is frankly laughable. They are not, they know they are not. Recently, Greeno, Drury and Mulryne have all been quoted in the local press as saying we need the loan players to stay. If the players know, then what does that say. The players must desperately want the board to do something. How long will green stay if we don''t go up? Drury? And Worthy?

If we do nothing, we will achieve nothing, the good players we have will leave and we will have to rebuild again, I do not say we haven''t got good players coming up, we have - but we need a blend. Worthy did us proud with Hucks and Crouch, we would be incredibly lucky if he were to find as good again, and why bother, let''s keep them. Still hoping a deal can be done to get Crouch to return for the rest of the season. Hucks has laid it on the line, he wants to stay, he will take a pay cut. With Roberts, Abbey out of contract, there is the money in the summer, surely something can be worked out until then.

I am not going to personally slate anyone on here, I don''t know any of you, and I respect that you too want the club to succeed, as I do, it is just we have different ways of looking at things. For myself, it is seeing Huckerby destroy defences and win games with one touch. We need players like that, we can win this division with him, without him we would be extremely lucky to get into the playoffs, and the consequences with the yearly losses as they stand do not bear thinking about.


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Yet again, people still saying - "the board should take the chance, we have to buy him" blah blah.

WE CAN''T. WE CAN''T. WE CAN''T. WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY.

Which part of that don''t you understand? It''s like saying to you that you should go out and buy that half million pound house out in the country to put your family in and live the life of riley in. What do you mean the bank won''t give you a mortgage? So what, just go and buy it. Go on, take a risk, buy it! Quite how you can say buying huckerby (IF we had the money) is not a risk is just absurd. Injury? And he''s already not the player he was when he arrived. I admit he is a quality player but talk of players performing while they''re on loan before dropping off when becoming permenant is valid. David Nielsen? Shefki Kuqi down at the toilet has already stopped scoring!

It is accepted that NW had a war chest in the summer of about a million. Consider he spends half that to get us into a good position at the half way point in the season. That was a risk. If it hadn''t worked the transfer budget would have been sliced in half for nothing in return. But so far we''ve done ok. Very ok. The hope is they can repeat the feat and if they do that will get us up. If we had got hulse/connolly, we''d have one player, who could have got injured (most players we buy get injured as soon as they walk thro the door) and personally i don''t think we''d be where we are now if we''d have got hulse/connolly and say one loan player. And we''d only have small change left out of the million so it wouldn''t be a loan player of the quality we''ve had. As it is, we''ve still got money to bring some more loans in and we''re in a great position to attract players who might otherwise not thought of coming to Norwich.

I go back to what i said to wizard - what would you have done? rewind six months, turn yourself into doncaster and wizard into worthington, imagine you are them (sorry if that''s not a nice thought), and tell us what you would have done. Wizard still hasn''t.

Oh and one more thing, if you look a bit closer at the accounts, you''ll see that catering turnover at the club rose last year by 400,000 to 2.7 million. TWO POINT SEVEN MILLION. From catering. I doubt even man utd can boast that. Still moaning about kitchen refurbishment?

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Cheers Rainbowchaser, I was thinking of packing it in, But thanks to you, Bury Belvoir, Snake Pit Rebel, Worthy Out , Dianne and all the other great posters who have risked ridicule in supporting me. I WILL still speak out, when I believe a lack of ambition has been shown, in respect of our wonderful club.

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Rainbowchaser you accept that there is not any money yet ask that the board do something. They did they raised £15m through securitisation. That is what is funding the present expenditure on loanees. At the moment we are at a point of brinkmanship regarding signings and contracts. Would rather the board be doing this than some of the less worldly wise contributors on here.

(Just wish I could play poker with wizard and his mates, though I might have to tell them not to keep shouting snap every couple of minutes !)

Roberts and Abbey out of contract will not free any more money - that event will already have been factored into next years budget.

Huckeby''s wage cut is not what it seems. Someone will have to pick up the difference between what Norwich are offering and what he is getting at Man City. This is what is going on now. I just can''t believe that our fans can''t quite grasp that.

Put yourself in Man City''s position. Is it not likely that they will hang on till Jan to see if there are any other offers.

Assume it were possible to meet Man City''s/Villas current demands and we don''t get promoted then what ? Green, Drury, Mulryne and others will be leaving - not because THEY want to but because we HAVE to sell them. Remember ipswich last season. Watch them this summer.

Unfortunately some of our fans are getting themselves rather over exited like a child on Christmas Eve. Sadly one or two are even throwing a tantrum because they don''t like what Santa has bought them. Not that they actually know yet.

Wait till Christmas children, it''ll all be ok

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Master Green. A reasoned voice in a very confused world!

I just don''t understand why after everything we''ve achieved over the first half of this season, do so-called supporters of our club whine and moan, berate and mock, whinge and herrang!

You put the analogy of Christmas Presents so well. Leave them under the tree till Christmas Day for goodness sake!

I can''t wait for the opportunity to scorn and ridicule the incoherent ramblings of the doom-and-gloom mongers who actually live in cloud cuckoo land. You know, I believe that even when we do get promoted to the Premiership, it still won''t be good enough for some!

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1st wiz

you are so right mate

don''t let the board lovers get you down, just wait for their excuses re our slide, and the sell off of all our talent, worthy finally giving up (god, that man must have the patience of a saint)

some of us want this club to prosper, and there is ALWAYS money around

there was money for the stand, the restaurant, internal refurbishments - but NEVER for what really matters, the squad

i am naturally disappointed that huckerby is not staying, but who i really feel for is people like greeno, who must be really feeling let down now, he has a price on his head and will leave, because he wants to better himself, and being at a (at the best) mid table first division club with no ambition is not going to look good on the CV of a england goalkeeper of the future!!

As for Worthy, words just fail me, i know he will have tried his best to get that money, and i for one will be astounded if he is still here in may

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Well said Gazza, Iwon''t add to that because explaining our financial position add nauseum to posters who are completely devoid of realism is a waste of time. None of us has NCFC board information but a modicum of common sence would suffice.

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Beelsie

Not sure if you were responded to Gazzathegreat or me with you post, hopefully me?

There seems to be an element of confusion on the part of some here on this message board, i.e. having a vague grasp of financial reality means you naturally support the Board.

Not necessarily so, although I''ve heard enough directly from certain Executive Officers at the club to know who I''d rather have running the club. They aren''t perfect, but neither are they totally stupid.

Cryptic, perhaps, but is anyone genuinely surprised that Huckerby is going back????

Watch this space.

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