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alex_ncfc

Zema Abbey offered new deal

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...short term that is. 3 month contract from August to let him ''prove himself'' - in the reserves or in the first team?! Because personally, I don''t really think he''s upto the 1st division, let alone the Premierhip. He''s had chances to prove himself once or twice before - I''m not meaning to be harsh to him, I just don''t think he can cut it, especially after these potentially career ending injuries he has had.

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Excellent idea. Although if I were being cynical I would say this 3 month contract would be a chance to get him in the proverbial shop window (in the reserves or Worthy cup) and flog him on for a price (hopefully).
You never know though, he may surprise us all and be excellent when 100% fit, which I don''t believe we''ve ever truly seen him at.

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I think this is a really sensible move by Norwich. I''ve said before that I don''t think we have seen the true Zema Abbey. The guy has been plagued with injuries. Lets see if he can hack it in the Prem. What have we got to lose? His wages can''t be through the roof so we can afford it. If he does well we can extend it, if he doesn''t he can find another club. The deal is surely good for Abbey too. I''m sure he thinks he could cut it in the Prem. Here''s his chance. If it turns out he can''t, I''m sure they''ll be plenty of clubs who, 3 months into the season, need a new striker. I wouldn''t have thought he''d have too much trouble finding another club at a lower level.

I hope Zema accepts the deal and it works out for him. I think he has the potential of being a very good target man. He''s got the physique, he had some pace. It remains to be seen if he has the skill.

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i think thos may be a good move by the club - he has had an unfortunate time and i am sure the contract is only about 3,000 a week,so thats about 40,000 for the three months that he stays - something really good come out of it.i think worthy will probably feel that he may not be up to it but why not just see,instead of getting someone else in on a long term contract and them then failing

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In the cold light of business...why? He clearly wasn''t good enough for Division 1 so no way is he good enough for Premiership football.

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I think the club might just be helping him along. He has been terribly unlucky with injuries, and by all accounts he is a decent bloke. With him being out of contract this summer, what chance does he have of getting another club when he has been out all season (especially with so many players out of contract)? So maybe they are signing him to a fairly minimal 3 month contract so that he can be part of pre-season training, and then get a few pre-season friendlies under his belt, perhaps a few reserve games, and so that he has a chance of getting his career back on track with another club. Admitedly this is due to injuries, but he hasn''t proved himself a regular first division scorer in all honesty, and I cannot say I''ve seen the extra potential in him needed to make the step-up to Premier level. So I''m not confident he is really in our plans, despite this contract offer. But having said that, Worthy has proved a decent judge of players. If Zema works hard in pre-season and Worthy thinks he has potential then it might be worth giving him a go. At least this way we keep our options open and it won''t cost us much. One things for sure, if Zema gets a chance and takes it we will all be happy (that would be a fairy tale wouldn''t it?! Coming back from injury and making it in the Prem with us next season!).

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Hmm that''s just it though isn''t it - it''d be a fairytale if he came back and scored bucketloads - but that''s just it, a fairytale - ie - it won''t happen. Obviously i''d like to be proved wrong, and i''d be the first to hold my hands up and say I was wrong about him, but I doubt it''ll happen. By all means though Zema, prove me wrong. Although as people have said above, it''s probably mainly to put him in the shop window, something i hadn''t thought about when i first made the post.

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8 goals from 60+ appearances - that alone should prove the point that he isnt good enough. And if he has been offerred a contract through sentiment then why wasn''t Iwan offerred one as well - he is far more able than Zema. It may be cruel but there is no sentiment in business, and I wouldn''t have though that we had so much money that we could spend some of it on someone who has not proven themselves to be good enough when he was fit.

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This is what the club is all about and helps reinforce team spirit. Gestures like this will make the club more attractive to other players. The poor lad''s had an unfortunate time which Nigel is aware of and is doing his best to show him that when he signed for Norwich he signed for a club which actually cares about thier players.

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I think this is a good compromise by the club. I agree that not having set alight the first division, he is unlikely to succeed in the Prem, but I think the club are right to help a player, who by all accounts is a good guy, and act like, well, Norwich City! As long as we still sign another striker in the close season (Crouch, Ashton?)

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I would not have renewed his contract as I don''t think there is much of a chance of him being a premiership quality striker. Also as someone pointed out if City are doing this for him as favour, then Iwan could have been offered a player/coach role. I''m sorry but I have seen glimpses of him being an OK division 1 player at best, maybe i''m wrong and he really is a good player but I think in 4 months time Zema will either be injured or playing for a div 2 club. It''s a shame and I do feel sorry for him but no-one else is shown this kind of favour by the club.

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Thank you, Saint Canary - if this contract has been offerred out of sympathy then why wasn''t Iwan offerred one, and why not Notman? Whilst we are at it we could offfer contracts to Eadie and O''Niel. The only reason a contract should be offerred is if the player is good enough to contribute to the Club on the pitch, and unfortunately Abbey has never been good enough. And before the "do-gooders" rise up in arms, would you really want Abbey leading our attack in the coming season, or any other season come to that? 8 goals from 60+ appearances does not indicate that he is good enough. As a Club we are still £millions in debt. We need every penny to strengthen the squad, not to waste it on sympathetic gestures. If Abbey is forced to retire from the game through injury then his insurance cover will pay him substantial financial compensation, so financial considerations do not come into this strangest of decisions.

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I''m sorry FatMan but I think you''re being a bit heartless. It''s a nice gesture to Zema. He''s had bloody awful luck. If it proves he isn''t good enough then he''ll go. What''s the harm? I don''t think it''s a sympathy vote. I think we just want to give him one last chance to prove himself. If Nige had absolutely no intention of playing him or giving him a go, Abbey would have gone the same way as Roberts, Easton and Crichton. We obviously think he has talent or he would have gone already. As for his wages, we have obviously budgeted for giving Abbey a short deal or we wouldn''t have done it.

How many people thought some of our squad would have the seasons they have had? Some players have excelled. How do we not know Abbey will do this next year. I just think that for the sake of 3 months we should take one last look. We''d be bloody sick if he left and did really well elsewhere.

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You are right DD in that I am a bit heartless. A strategy that I use at work is "Manage by Principles not by Personalities". I am responsible for several managers and over 100 other people, and my responsibility is to bring in a targeted amount of £note profit at a budgeted cost. Whenever I allow myself to make "special cases" of individuals, that is managing by personality, I inveriably end up with a situation where we do not achieve target, or we exceed our costs. Whenever I manage by a known set of principles, values and standards, we invariably end up achieving target, or exeeding it, at the budgeted cost.
My point with Zema is that he has not at any time shown himself to be the striker that should lead our front line. He at times looks awkward, slow, and clumsy. Even allowing for a couple of flukey wonder goals he still only scored 8 times in over 60 appearances...a strike rate of less than 0.2 goals per game. Of course it is massively sad for the guy that he has sufferred two terrible injuries, but the Club has stood by him and paid his wages during that time. Now that he is approaching full fitness the Club needs to decide about his future with us. Even if he was fully match fit his record does not suggest that he is good enough to play for us. That being so, he should be released, as were Chrichton, Easton, Sinclair and Iwan.
If he has been offerred a contract for sympathetic reasons, I would have thought that Iwan and Sinclair in particular would be well p*ssed off. Whenever a decision is made on personality rather than priciple it usually causes frustration and resentment elsewhere. A decision made on principles deriving from known standards and values may be harsh, but is accepted my all parties as being fair and reasonable.
Right now we are still strapped for cash and I would prefer to see every penny that is available being spent on strengthening the squad to ensure survival next year, not being spent on someone who on past performance is not good enough.

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I think FatMan''s point is a little cold. I too have held senior positions and managed lots of people. I too have managed by Principle, not Personality. But ''Principle'' should mean the principle of doing the right thing for people as well as profit. Companies (and football clubs) stand or fall on their people. If the company treats people with respect and - at times - a little kindness in the face of pretty bad adversity then that is a principle worth holding on to. It is not about personality - it''s not about him being a nice guy (at least I don''t think that''s why this has been offered to him). It''s about maybe thinking he can cut it (doubtful I agree) and it''s about extending the sense of ''community'' that makes Norwich City so strong. Managing by principle (the principle of team spirit, togetherness and mutual support) is what has made Norwich the success they now are. It''s this that has got them out of the first division, in part. It''s this that''s helped them to net the windfall of the Premier League. So in this principle there IS profit. If this move with Zema costs 3 months wages and he can''t can''t cut it, but it re-enforces the culture that NCFC has built over the last three years then I think think that''s great. Short term cost. Long term gain, in the sense of extending the spirit of what Norwich City stands for.

As for Iwan, I must admit I thought that was a touch harsh and seems counter to my point above. But, it''s not exactly the same situation as he will be able to choose from a number of clubs by the look of it.

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FatMan Fat, given that you have a responsibility for so many people, I can understand why you need to be disciplined in your approach and not only act fairly, but be seen to act fairly. However, what do you do in the case of an employee who has run into a couple of serious health problems only to achieve recovery and be ready to return to work. Surely there are laws that protect the individuals right to job protection in such circumstances which effectively takes the matter out of the hands of such a stern taskmaster as yourself. A more compassionate manager ( also charged with achieving bottom line results ) would, in the circumstances I described, have the same employee back on the books but probably command more loyalty from all employees as a result of their approach to treat various circumstances with good judgement, not just profit objectives. Although the contractual position in the case of Zema Abbey is different than what you would probably encounter in the business example I provided, the principle ( to use your word ) is the same. Use good judgement and compassion when the circumstances warrant it and most employers will gain employee loyalty multifold. Many companies have gone bankrupt by forgetting such principles.

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Rivers or Abbey?= No contest, I would rather have a 3/4''s fit Zema in the squad, than a fully fit Rivers anyday. I don''t think sentiment comes into it, remember Ian Butterworth and his battle to return after a serious injury?. Eventually given his P45 by NCFC, as he was unable to regain the required standard to play. Gaetano Giallanza the Italian boy, who I thought had a good future with the club, gets crocked, and then it''s ciao GG, and off he went.

Nigel is hanging in there with Zema for a reason, and I think a fully fit Abbey will be an excellent squad player. Yes Fatman, a hard taskmasters strategy may be "Manage by Principles not by Personalities" and if you don''t cut the mustard and produce the goods, your position would also be in serious doubt. But a happy workforce is a productive workforce, and Nigel is very aware that he can''t carry a leg-iron for an indefinite period. But! he doesn''t run the squad autocratically, but diplomatically, and with compassion. With these qualities he has rewarded the Club with the ultimate prize "Promotion"!. Huckerby chose this club over others, because he saw potential and a positive manager. I think Zema, has demonstrated to Nigel during his rehabilitation, that he has the determined and positive attitude required of a Pro-Footballer. Remember, you can have all the talent in the world, but there''s no "I" in Team!. I agree, his record as you correctly stated, hasn''t set the world alight and his scoring ratio is somewhat poor, and I respect your views as your entitled to do so. I think this manager after 3 years, is the way forward for this Football Club. I had my doubts initially, and he''s proven me and many others wrong. Give Zema a fair crack of the whip and wait and see eh....... You just don''t know what may happen! OTBC

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Blimey, this posting has caused a few lines to be written, too many to read, but Abbey not good enough for Div 1, money wasted on barely capable Div 3 player.

Had horrible luck wish him well, but were a not a charity or rest home for crocks, he should have been shown the door, decision on Iwan a better prospect than ZA didn''t trouble NW''s conscience.

ZA first signing by NW hope this doesn''t mean the inscrutable irishman is going soft, too late to cancel but offer never should have been made, if we have money to throw around I hope some has gone to Alex Notman et al.

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There are a few points I would make -
Firstly, many many people who have worked "under" me have achieved their best ever performances in terms of money, recognition and job satisfaction. They have improved immeasurably "under" my leadership, and where I no longer "manage" them they have very often dropped away in performance. My teams also have very, very, strong team spirit, its one of the reasons why they do so well. Part of this success comes from the fact that they understand they will be appraised against a given set of known value and standards, which if met, will lead to exceptional performance. As such, managing by principles, rather than personalities, really does achieve results.
That being so, I just dont get why Zema is offerred a new contract against a very poor performance record - 8 goals in 60+ appearances - whilst Iwan, Chrichton, Sinclair and others get shown the door. To me, this decision looks like a decsion based on personality, not on principle.
Finally, my grandchildren love me for who I am - they do not see me as a cold, heartless b*stard!! (I am not so sure about my wife though)

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Sorry but I really don''t think that Zema will be here in 4 months time, he will either be with another club or he will be injured. I think we are just giving him a chance to get fit and find another club because at the moment no-one else but Norwich will take a chance on him.

Now I do agree that it''s a nice gesture on the part of City but as people have stated earlier where was this gesture for other players, could Iwan not have been given a short-term player/coach contract to see how he went? What about a nice testimonial-style match for Notman? Sorry but it seems like Zema is getting special treatment because NW feels sorry for him.

The way I see it we have Huckerby, Svensson, Mckenzie, Henderson, Jarvis and Abbey as strikers at the club and Abbey is at best 4th or 5th choice striker, even further down if (as we all seem to think) City sign another striker. I could undertsand if he had a superb strike-rate but he doesn''t and it just seems so unfair on other players.

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Isn''t akin to the Carl Cort situation at Newcastle...? Cort was injured for what seemed an eternity and when finally deemed fit enough to play was shipped out to Wolves where once he''d settled down he was able to recommence his career...
I''d like to see Zema given the three month period to regain his fitness and where possible given games to build up his match fitness...
City can''t lose in this situation, wages for Zema will be much lower than a full-time player being brought in during the close season and theres obviously no signing-on fee...
I don''t think compassion has played a big part in this decision, Zema is a striker and we can do with all the strikers we can get...
I for one think he has yet to fully demonstrate his capabilities, as he has been crelly beset with injuries which have limited his chances of bedding into the team properly...

I''m gonna send him a good luck card, wishing him all the best for the coming season as I honestly would like to see him playing for City...

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FatMan Fat, all you are demonstrating in your last message is that you have a fat head. It is for others to state what kind of a leader you are, not you. Such self-serving statements from any individual lack the qualities I respect in a leader. As far as the Abbey situation is concerned, most posters have come to believe that Nigel Worthington has demonstrated that he is a very capable manager of men ( without blowing his own horn, I might add ). As such, most of us will trust his judgement in this matter too.

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Nice to see you back Anderz!

I have to say, for what I think is the first time on this board, I completely agree with Yankee here. Lets trust Nige. He must think Abbey has a chance of breaking into the first team otherwise he would spend his wages elsewhere. Lets give him a go

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I quite agree Yankee Canary that it is up to others to say what sort of a leader I am. I work in a highly competitive, target orientated, results rewarded enviroment...bit like a football team really. Over many years I have consistently led my teams to Divisional and National awards, in several different parts of the country. For my part I can only achieve success when those around me succeed, such is the lot of a leader. Thanks to their performances I have since 1990 been awarded trips to Cyprus (twice); USA (4 times); Sardinia; Barabados; Singapore; Thailand and Mauritius...always as an Area Leader or Regional Leader. To my mind that makes me pretty successful, and a pretty good leader...and seemingly my Directors think I am a pretty good leader too. Judging by the gifts that my past teams have given me when I have moved on they also thought I was a pretty good leader.
If that makes me a Fat Head then so be it:-0)....and Zema still isn''t good enough to cut it as his results, when fit, show. A strike rate of less than 0.2 goals per game does not warrant any favours. And if favours are going to be given out then lets have a testimonial for Alex Notman and Iwan Roberts...and what about giving 3 month contracts to Chrichton and Sinclair whilst they find other clubs?

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At the end of the day Worthy clearly sees something in Zema that makes him think £40k is worth the risk. If Zemas Knees dont stand up then it is likely he will be forced to retire but if he does recover towards full fitness the worthy clearly thinks he has a striker who will boost the squad. He may not be prem standard but he does give the squad an alternative option without costing much.

I am surprised he has been kept on, even just for 3 months. I felt that Zema can do a Div 1 job given service and fitness - he has had neither while here and in 02-03 had the best strike rate at the club - not great but still outperformed Iwan in goals and match contribution. However I do not seem him having prem quality.

It may be guilt - he was Worthys first signing after all - but whatever the reason I am confident that Worthy is offering the contract for all the right reasons.

OTBC

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Cheers DumbleDelia, have been having loads of probs logging in to reply, so just settled for reading posts, then all of a sudden the site let me log in again - weird...

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Having just read the entire thread I have come to the following conclusions -

1. Fatman has a very successful career - I hope that success continues in the future.

2. NW has compromised over the Abbey situation. Given NW''s past record of signing decent players the fact that Abbey was one of the first he brought in says something. Three months from the start of next season allows us to assess Abbey and see whether he is capable of playing not only to his previous standards but also hacking it in the Premiership. He will need time to recover and regain match fitness after those injuries but if after three months he cannot cope with the necessary rigours of professional football then move him on. We won''t have lost much and its better to make sure than be sorry later.

3. I don''t believe we have ever seen a fully fit Zema. If he can fit and get a couple of reserve games, knocking in a few goals he start will prove a lot of people wrong

4. If he doesnt regain full fitness by the end of period ( Symptom Riveritis) or is injured again then release him without question.

5. Sentimentality has a place in football but giving Zema a contract is not an example. Giving Iwan the chance to say goodbye at FCR and starting him against Crewe was, however. It is not a flaw.

6. Zema has potential, NW has recognised that, he has had terrible injuries and has had the strength of character to return from them, the least we (club and supporters) can do is give Zema one ladst chance tp prove himself.

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Fatman, thank god I don''t work for you (or perhaps I do?)

Can we all just trust NW on this one please? Who knows how useful Zema is in training getting our defenders used to tall, strong strikers etc, who knows what his true, un injured potential could be??

Imagine this scenario as well, perhaps insurance payouts for premier league teams are higher for premier league players. "Yes, Mr Insurance man its a shame he has had to retire but at the start of the season he was a contracted player so thats a nice big premiership insurance payout please"

Just a theory...

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Firstly to Yankee, I always read your posts with interest and enjoyment but the comment you made about everybody on this board trusting Worthy and that we should just trust his judgement now is not a very strong argument for offering Abbey a contract. I trust NW but I and everybody else come on here to express an opinion about NCFC and I think that Fatman and everyone else have the right to state their opinion on the matter which is being discussed without it being insinuated that just because of one issue or disagreement with a managerial decision, that they don''t trust or are not in full support of the manager. What would be the point of having a message board, where we all just came and said "Well done Worthy, we agree with everything you do"?
If you disagree with Fatman just say so, don''t turn it into something personal or hide behind "most of us will trust his judgement in this matter too." like you speak for a collective of the posters on here. Every poster in here is intelligent, capable and eloquent enough of expressing their own opinion.

On the point of Abbey''s contract, he is 27, he should have fulfilled his "potential" by now. He should be at the peak of his game but he isn''t. A long way from it, he has been robbed of a couple of his best years (in football terms) and from what I remember of him, he still had a bit of work to do to be a first division player. 3 months will not be long enough to try and catch up two lost years and I would put money down that he will not be here come Christmas.

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