Doc's staying. Discuss

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Scooby"]

And will people stop going on about TINY !!  Which part of HE WASN''T FOR SALE don''t you understand !!

[/quote]

Oh, but he was Scooby.

QPR met Birmingham''s valuation of £1.3 million for him in early January, and were given permision to speak to him, it was covered in detail on here, it was Taylor who turned them down............not Birmingham.

Stick to the facts next time.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

 The year Doherty won player of the year, what was our goal difference?

[/quote]

It was -9. The problem with our goal difference that season (and this) was scoring goals not conceding them. FFS even Crewe scored more and they got relegated.

What was our goal difference while Taylor was here? And what has it been since he went back??

If you are going to quote stats make sure you can back them up with more than hot air otherwise you are in danger of becoming the second wizard [:|]

 

 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

 

QPR met Birmingham''s valuation of £1.3 million for him in early January....

....Stick to the facts next time.

[/quote]

£1.3M? That''s a fact is it?

[Mister Chops 7]

Whoever said Doc should sort his hair out is spot on.  He needs to lose the "monk cut" he''s sporting at the moment and go for an overall grade 2 clippering.  Perhaps Shackell could do the same, and then we might scare the opposing centre forwards a little more.

Alternatively, given the Doc''s love of wrestling, he could grow Undertaker-style locks and play wearing a string vest.

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

Mr Chops, why is it meaningless if the Player of the Season is a defender and we had about the worst defense in the league a year after conceding 10 more goals than the 2nd worst defense? I am sure there could have been several other players chosen.  Do you really think that with someone other than Doherty on defense, we would have actually had a WORSE goals against?

What team in Coca Cola or Premiere would want Doherty enough to start him as much as he does in Norwich? We always have those sorts of players.  One of our defenders from the Prem season was playing for Kings Lynne when that game was on national (and international, so I saw it) TV. We build up scrubs and trash the good players.

An example of a good player being dumped on? Look at all the negatvie comments about HUckerby. What about the hard feelings when Ashton left even though he earned us a 3 million profit.

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

Mr Chops, why is it meaningless if the Player of the Season is a defender and we had about the worst defense in the league a year after conceding 10 more goals than the 2nd worst defense? I am sure there could have been several other players chosen.  Do you really think that with someone other than Doherty on defense, we would have actually had a WORSE goals against?

[/quote]

You''re beating me with stunning logic here.

You seem to be saying that:

a) Doherty was voted player of the season.

b) We let in lots of goals that season.

c) Defenders are only in the side to stop goals going in.

d) Therefore no defender should have been player of the season

Fair logic so far, but why suggest this is somehow more due to the Doc than the other defenders, and then why suggest that PotS (voted for by fans who watch each match, which I might suggest you struggle to do given your location) is not a fair reflection of our best player?  Or, put another way, how many would we have conceded if he hadn''t been in the side?

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

Mr. Chops,

You seem to have missed the part (which you hi-lighted and sent back in your response) where I DID wonder if you think our defense could have actually been worse without Doherty.

Has any other team shown any interest in him since he''s been with City? Why not?

If the entire defense sucks, it seems insane to pick a defender for PofS.

As I have stated in other comments here, too many of the NCFC fan seems to be TOO willing to build up scrubs who try hard while overlooking and even be willing to smear the truly talented players we do have when we have them. As such, if PofS is up to the fans, it will as likely go to someone like Doherty because he looks like he''s working hard at being average as it will to someone like Lee Croft who maybe makes it look easy while he is giving 100% for the entire game.

If any defender should have received PofS in the last 3 seasons, it could only have been Robert Green who truly did recover from a lot of errors by the line in front of him.  But how can you give a goalie PofS when he let in so many?  YOU CAN''T.  Oh, and because he was never a scrub, too many NCFC fans took him for granted, but gary Doherty, ooohh, he works so hard to recover from his bonehead errors, that''s our guy!

 

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

As I have stated in other comments here, too many of the NCFC fan seems to be TOO willing to build up scrubs who try hard while overlooking and even be willing to smear the truly talented players we do have when we have them.[/quote]

Examples please.

And Doherty was excellent yesterday but I suspect you''ll conveniently ignore that.

[Houston Canary 0]

Have you not seen any Huckerby bashing on these threads? The guy is a great player with the gonads to speak the truth instead of sugar coating.  How many commenter wet themselves when he said this year''s team was the worst he''d ever seen?  All the "it''s not going to help, he needs to be gone," crap from the ostrich''s with their heads in the sand was annoying.  Where are they now?  Why aren''t they thanking Huckerby for helping speed up the process of dumping what was obviously a very bad manager for this team?

 When I was at a couple of games last year, I heard plenty of loudmouths making anti-Huckerby comments. They were wearing green and yellow scarves, so not visiting fans. But at Cardiff, the Pinkun reported that while he was warming up to come on in the 2nd half, he was jawing with the Cardiff fans who were trying to annoy him, and he seemed to be enjoying it.  THAT''S the kind of guy I WANT on my team.

 When Dean Ashton left, there were plenty of negative comments about him, too, as there had been when he was still with the team. He''s good enough for England, but not for Norwich City?  The team made over 3million profit on him, too, so why the hard feelings?

What other team would Doherty be starting for on a regular basis in either of the top 2 divisions? Why aren''t they making offers for him?

 He may have been excellent yesterday, but it his propensity for boneheaded mistakes that cost us goals and games in between his good performances that make him a liability.

[Brown 0]

Im quite happy that hes staying

hes been doin alrite recently

He should be able to score a few more headers from corners etc.

but apart from that i dont see too much wrong with him... apart from the occasional mistake

[Hog 0]

despite the mistakes he makes, he is probably the best defender we could realistically hope for at the moment, I very much doubt we will be awash with cash in the summer, and this in my opinion makes the Doc vital to our long term plans.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

As I have stated in other comments here, too many of the NCFC fan seems to be TOO willing to build up scrubs who try hard while overlooking and even be willing to smear the truly talented players we do have when we have them. As such, if PofS is up to the fans, it will as likely go to someone like Doherty because he looks like he''s working hard at being average as it will to someone like Lee Croft who maybe makes it look easy while he is giving 100% for the entire game.

[/quote]

Or maybe because that season Doherty played consistently well and gave his all while the mercurial talents sometimes showed up and sometimes didn''t?

By the way, if a team leaks lots of goals it''s down to the team, not just the defence.  Hence the number of comments about Huckerby not tracking back and tackling (though yesterday he was better).  It''s called teamwork.

 

[scott 0]

The Doc, the Ginger Pele has been our best player since replacing Taylor when he went back to Birmingham in December!

 

Yesterday against Barnsley he was our best player and should of got man of the match which went to Pearce instead. Mr Pearce did without doubt very well yesterday considering it was his first game but didn''t warrant MOTM as the Doc covered for him on a few occasions!

 

How many live games do you watch ''Housten Canary'' cause you are well wide of the mark about the Doc and seem to be just latching onto all the ''scapegoat'' crap that fans always pin onto the Doc which is dreadfully harsh and very wide of the mark.

 

I''ve been slated on here for saying that new loan signing Gibbs from Arsenal is crap, but I go to games and I say it as I see it and unforutnately for us regardless of where he comes from Gibbs has been crap for us in 2 games and looks out of his depth!

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="scott"]

The Doc, the Ginger Pele has been our best player since replacing Taylor when he went back to Birmingham in December!

 

Yesterday against Barnsley he was our best player and should of got man of the match which went to Pearce instead. Mr Pearce did without doubt very well yesterday considering it was his first game but didn''t warrant MOTM as the Doc covered for him on a few occasions!

I''ve been slated on here for saying that new loan signing Gibbs from Arsenal is crap, but I go to games and I say it as I see it and unforutnately for us regardless of where he comes from Gibbs has been crap for us in 2 games and looks out of his depth!

[/quote]I disagree with the "best player part", I think betrand or chedders or dubs has but he has improved very well.I don''t think doc was anywhere near motm yesterday. I thought he was relatively poor yesterday. Gibbs was crap, people still seem to be making excuses for him. I can''t believe people are saying he played a great game yesterday.I''m happy doc''s getting a contract, if he can keep the form up he can become a good defender in this league.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

Have you not seen any Huckerby bashing on these threads?

[/quote]

Not much, no. There''s been plenty of people saying he isn''t as quick or as effective as he used to be and is no longer a first choice and that is not the same as "bashing". That is the truth but it doesn''t change the fact that the guy is a legend and has done an awful lot for the club, and anyone who denies that is a bit soft in the head. But he is not beyond criticism.

[Houston Canary 0]

Yah, it''s a team sport, but Huckerby is the guy who sets up goals, not plays defense. He is the guy who gets 2 men to mark him, freeing up another player. And for that, you want him playing defender too? Thanks for proving my point about NCFC fans dumping on the stars and blessing the scrubs. Huckerby never mailed in a performance. I have never seen Huckerby give anything other than full effort, which is what we need in attack. If there was some support, more of his crosses might go answered.  Now we have Evans who seems willing to take shots, and thank God for that.

I saw every televised game when we were in the Prem, and I saw 6 games last season. However, I read fine media coverage of the games such as Pinkun, I follow the games as they happen on BBC Football or soccernet by reading the play by play, so I am at least somewhat aware of events on the pitch.

If Doherty is so great, why is there no interest in him from other teams (not including Hartlepool or Luton or any teams in lower divisions)? Or is there even any interest from them?  Nobody wants to answer that question. He makes too many pointless errors that prove to be quite costly.  As I said yesterday, giving up a goal in basketball is no big deal because it''s 2% of the other team''s output, but in soccer, it''s crushing.  He can play well for 89 minute and 30 seconds, and still cost us a point or 2 with some stupid error.  He is not crap, but he is a fine example of an undeserving player getting way overrated by the fans because he seems to work hard.

[Houston Canary 0]

Maybe you need to go look at some of the threads about Huckerby playing elsewhere. The willingness to write the guy off because he is not playing his best due to an injury that will require surgery in the off season is rampant. You yourself (as opposedd to you someone else?) say he is "no longer" a first choice.  What has Huckerby done ever to cost us a game? And I don''t mean playing defense because h more than makes up for that by needing 2 men to cover him. Then you infer that he doesn''t really try, which is a load of crap. 

You seem to be the classic example of an NCFC fan who idolizes the scrub who couldn''t play on anyone else''s team while damning the players who give us a chance to win.

 

If by  claiming Doherty is the Ginger Pele you mean he plays as well as Pele does today, then I agree with that. Except Doherty looks blonde, not ginger. I doubt Pele would appreciate the comparison, though.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

Yah, it''s a team sport, but Huckerby is the guy who sets up goals, not plays defense. He is the guy who gets 2 men to mark him, freeing up another player. And for that, you want him playing defender too? Thanks for proving my point about NCFC fans dumping on the stars and blessing the scrubs. Huckerby never mailed in a performance. I have never seen Huckerby give anything other than full effort, which is what we need in attack. If there was some support, more of his crosses might go answered.  Now we have Evans who seems willing to take shots, and thank God for that.

[/quote]

I''m not convinced you understand the concept of a team performance.  Yes, I expect midfielders to track back.  I''m not alone in that.  Huckerby never mailed in a performance?  You are kidding me... unless this is your attempt to prove your theory that we like the average players more than your supposed "quality" ones by trying to get me to bite.  Huckerby has always been mercurial.  Some games he was by far the greatest player on the pitch.  Other games not.  The fact Doc won PotS tells you whether Huckerby had more on or off-games that season.  If he''d turned up every week, as you suggest, Doc wouldn''t have won it.

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

If Doherty is so great, why is there no interest in him from other teams (not including Hartlepool or Luton or any teams in lower divisions)? Or is there even any interest from them?  Nobody wants to answer that question.

[/quote]

That''s because we can''t, because this stuff isn''t released to the press.  Doc''s got a contract renewal coming up.  There are many clubs who would take him, but we want to keep him and he wants to stay.  That will be three managers under whom he has been the first choice centre-back.  Are they all wrong?

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

He makes too many pointless errors that prove to be quite costly.

[/quote]

Please substantiate that, or admit it''s just your opinion without anything to back it up.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

 He is not crap, but he is a fine example of an undeserving player getting way overrated by the fans because he seems to work hard.

[/quote]

Gary Doherty is a fine example of a hard working player who consistently performs to a good standard and is getting the credit he deserves from the fans who understand enough about football to know he''s doing a good job for the club.

For me he remains the best defender at the club and one of the better defenders in the league.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Houston Canary"]

 The year Doherty won player of the year, what was our goal difference?

[/quote]

It was -9. The problem with our goal difference that season (and this) was scoring goals not conceding them. FFS even Crewe scored more and they got relegated.

What was our goal difference while Taylor was here? And what has it been since he went back??

If you are going to quote stats make sure you can back them up with more than hot air otherwise you are in danger of becoming the second wizard [:|]

[/quote]

The problem with statistics nutty is that one really ought to understand them if one is going to use them.

Otherwise one tends to come out of the encounter looking much more like a Peter Grant than a Glenn Roeder.

Ignorance is bliss, but better kept to oneself. Particularly if one is of the enthusiastic type.

OTBC

 

 

 

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

Maybe you need to go look at some of the threads about Huckerby playing elsewhere. The willingness to write the guy off because he is not playing his best due to an injury that will require surgery in the off season is rampant. You yourself (as opposedd to you someone else?) say he is "no longer" a first choice.  What has Huckerby done ever to cost us a game? And I don''t mean playing defense because h more than makes up for that by needing 2 men to cover him. Then you infer that he doesn''t really try, which is a load of crap. 

You seem to be the classic example of an NCFC fan who idolizes the scrub who couldn''t play on anyone else''s team while damning the players who give us a chance to win.

[/quote]

I never "damned" Huckerby. He is no longer first choice (that''s a fact), it''s hardly scathing criticism. This is my point - as soon as someone says something like this it''s regarded as slagging him off but it''s not. I still think he has something to offer if fit but that won''t last much longer as his age and injuries are catching up with him. And he was out of the side because we were getting good results without him, up until last week.

You know, it is possible to like both Doherty and Huckerby. It doesn''t have to be one or the other. Perhaps that''s too much to get your head around, I don''t know.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Houston Canary"]

 The year Doherty won player of the year, what was our goal difference?

[/quote]

It was -9. The problem with our goal difference that season (and this) was scoring goals not conceding them. FFS even Crewe scored more and they got relegated.

What was our goal difference while Taylor was here? And what has it been since he went back??

If you are going to quote stats make sure you can back them up with more than hot air otherwise you are in danger of becoming the second wizard [:|]

[/quote]

The problem with statistics nutty is that one really ought to understand them if one is going to use them.

Otherwise one tends to come out of the encounter looking much more like a Peter Grant than a Glenn Roeder.

Ignorance is bliss, but better kept to oneself. Particularly if one is of the enthusiastic type.

OTBC

 

[/quote]

Ignorance of players performance comes from not seeing them play. Not sure if it''s bliss or not but like Houston... we have a problem.

Apart from that I have no idea what you are on about so maybe you should spend more time playing with your new friend on your Ipswich thread. [:|]

 

[Scooby 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Scooby"]

And will people stop going on about TINY !!  Which part of HE WASN''T FOR SALE don''t you understand !!

[/quote]

Oh, but he was Scooby.

QPR met Birmingham''s valuation of £1.3 million for him in early January, and were given permision to speak to him, it was covered in detail on here, it was Taylor who turned them down............not Birmingham.

Stick to the facts next time.

[/quote]

Yes Wiz, "given permission to speak to"   NOT buy.  McLeish was not going to sell him until they had a replacement, which did not materialise, hence NO SALE .............. get it?