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GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

***PESSIMISM ALERT***-A ROEDER WHINGE

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O.k, great to be 13 games unbeaten but scratch beneath this and after tonights match, thats 4 draws from the last 5 home mathes.

  The time has surely now come for Roeder to admit that his tactics need to change from home games to those of away games. By all means continue to play the one winger one holding wide man option away from home as the away form has been incredible but the fact is unless we play with two out and out attacking wingers at home WE WILL NOT WIN MATCHES.

 To play Gibbs over Huckerby tonight was so overtly and perversly wrong this just simply cannot continue without explanation and clearly is no longer for ''footballing reasons''. I''m sick of us letting these sides out of Carrow Road with a point because we are playing with one arm tied behind our back.

   One win from our last 5 home matches surely now shows that there needs to be a change of policy at home, please do this in time for our next home matches Roeder or we will be letting the likes of Blackpool and Barnsley of the hook with draws aswell.

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good post, dont see it as negative, Glen has done well but his methods are still open to discussion and you make a good point regarding our home displays and home team selections, i agree with you.

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Isn''t Gibbs supposed to be an out and out winger?? Isn''t that exactly what Roeder was doing last night.  OK, so apparently he was poor, but that doesn''t mean he wasn''t selected as an attacking winger with Bertie, an attacking full back behind him.

I do see your point but isn''t it preferable NOT to get beaten.  You can''t win every game!!!! As many people have pointed out, Hull are a good side at the moment and  a point a piece was a fair result by all accounts. We nearly came a cropper though by being a bit light weight defensively on the left, most people stating that Bertie looked very light weight too and Mo would have been better.

Too play devils advocate though, wasn''t that the team most people on here have been crying out for all week?  "Oh, I''d put Gibbs in and Bertrand at left back!!" and so said many a team picker leading up to the game.  Well, as the old saying goes, "be careful what you wish for....."  I for one am very happy with the way Glenn is progressing at the moment, How anyone can criticise a 13 match unbeaten run is quite beyond me, perhaps we should get rid of him for not WINNING 13 on the trot !!

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[quote user="Scooby"]

Isn''t Gibbs supposed to be an out and out winger?? Isn''t that exactly what Roeder was doing last night.  OK, so apparently he was poor, but that doesn''t mean he wasn''t selected as an attacking winger with Bertie, an attacking full back behind him.

I do see your point but isn''t it preferable NOT to get beaten.  You can''t win every game!!!! As many people have pointed out, Hull are a good side at the moment and  a point a piece was a fair result by all accounts. We nearly came a cropper though by being a bit light weight defensively on the left, most people stating that Bertie looked very light weight too and Mo would have been better.

Too play devils advocate though, wasn''t that the team most people on here have been crying out for all week?  "Oh, I''d put Gibbs in and Bertrand at left back!!" and so said many a team picker leading up to the game.  Well, as the old saying goes, "be careful what you wish for....."  I for one am very happy with the way Glenn is progressing at the moment, How anyone can criticise a 13 match unbeaten run is quite beyond me, perhaps we should get rid of him for not WINNING 13 on the trot !!

[/quote]

 

It was fairly obvious that the players had been instructed to send the ball to the right flank (Croft) every attacking chance. Poor Gibbs didnt stand a chance.

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Even Man Utd fans question fergie sometimes its called debate, yes we are on a good run but are far from the finished article and questions can still be asked, otherwise we might as well shut the forum or make it a Percy,s dictatorship.

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I think the only pessimism is in your post.  I bet you are one of those idiots who screams every time someone plays the ball backwards to keep possession.

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

O.k, great to be 13 games unbeaten but scratch beneath this and after tonights match, thats 4 draws from the last 5 home mathes.

  The time has surely now come for Roeder to admit that his tactics need to change from home games to those of away games. By all means continue to play the one winger one holding wide man option away from home as the away form has been incredible but the fact is unless we play with two out and out attacking wingers at home WE WILL NOT WIN MATCHES.

 To play Gibbs over Huckerby tonight was so overtly and perversly wrong this just simply cannot continue without explanation and clearly is no longer for ''footballing reasons''. I''m sick of us letting these sides out of Carrow Road with a point because we are playing with one arm tied behind our back.

   One win from our last 5 home matches surely now shows that there needs to be a change of policy at home, please do this in time for our next home matches Roeder or we will be letting the likes of Blackpool and Barnsley of the hook with draws aswell.

[/quote]

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I have to agree with the OP and have been saying so to anyone who will listen for a while. Of course i want to see us doing well BUT I dont want to go and watch negative football week in week out and I bet i am not alone. To leave Huckerby out last night and then to bring him on on the right...was wrong, just hope Roeder sees it like that and puts it right next time.

I have read so many posts on here about 3 points being all that matters, well i disagree and yes of course 3 points is very important but so is the entertainment factor.

 

 

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Gibbs was awful last night. He looked like he was scared to receive the ball and looked out of his depth. Obviously a player with those atitbrutes will upset the balance of the team.

 

Huckerby should be starting cause hes miles in front of a scared youngster!

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

O.k, great to be 13 games unbeaten but scratch beneath this and after tonights match, thats 4 draws from the last 5 home mathes.

  The time has surely now come for Roeder to admit that his tactics need to change from home games to those of away games. By all means continue to play the one winger one holding wide man option away from home as the away form has been incredible but the fact is unless we play with two out and out attacking wingers at home WE WILL NOT WIN MATCHES.

 To play Gibbs over Huckerby tonight was so overtly and perversly wrong this just simply cannot continue without explanation and clearly is no longer for ''footballing reasons''. I''m sick of us letting these sides out of Carrow Road with a point because we are playing with one arm tied behind our back.

   One win from our last 5 home matches surely now shows that there needs to be a change of policy at home, please do this in time for our next home matches Roeder or we will be letting the likes of Blackpool and Barnsley of the hook with draws aswell.

[/quote]Yeah great post....not. Think about Peter Grant''s reign and the results accumulated under him - a man who used, you guessed it, two out and out wingers whenever possible. (Hucks and Croft). The fact is not that if we don''t have two out and out wingers we will not win games. That is utter conjecture. The fact is, we will not win matches unless our strikers stop being so profligerate in front of the net.To play Gibbs was perversely wrong was it? PERVERSELY wrong? That is a strong word and makes it sound totally unjust that Roeder gave a very talented young player a debut instead of the aging Hucks who has flattered to decieve for the last two seasons consistently. I''m sure if Roeder had left Gibbs out that would have been "perversely wrong" also. There is no pleasing some people. Gibbs has come to play games, Arsenal would not have let him come unless they thought we would play him. Hucks came on last night and didn''t exactly do much to further his cause did he? Did he change the game at all? No. Did he create anything of note? No. Did he score? No. I would say those are pretty damn good footballing reasons as to not start him. Have you been at Colney? Do you know who is impressing in training and who isn''t? I sure as hell don''t so to suggest it is perversely wrong for Roeder not to start a player whose form is more than questionable this season and say it is certainly for none footballing reasons, is in my opinion, perversely wrong. Why can you not just breathe a sigh of relief we are not going to get relegated? Which is precisely what we were on the cusp of doing before Roeder arrived so, why don''t you try laying off the guy who has achieved a minor miracle purely by keeping us up this season, with a team of what appeared to be no-hopers before he arrived. We are Norwich City. Proud? Always. Passionate? Always. To suggest that we have a god-given right to beat anyone in this league is not a Norwich attitude. You want to win every game, go watch Chelsea or Arsenal. You want to support a great team, giving their all for the cause under the guidance of a very astute manager, who are improving steadily, one of the best form sides in the league and have not lost since the start of December, then by all means support the yellas, but for god''s sake stop bloody whinging.The policies of the Grant regime, as aforementioned, were two out and out wingers and Ten games without a goal says that this policy doesn''t work. It never has with Hucks in our team. The fact is we played against Hull who stuck ten men behind the ball, and hoped to hit us on the counter, which is precisely how they scored. Playing two out and out wingers would have only served to further their counter-attacking cause. Hull were hoping to nick at least a draw and adopting the Keegan attacking mantra would do us no favours.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]Even Man Utd fans question fergie sometimes its called debate, yes we are on a good run but are far from the finished article and questions can still be asked, otherwise we might as well shut the forum or make it a Percy,s dictatorship.[/quote]I''d much rather be a percy positive than a nancy negative because being positive is what most supporters are.

Not only that but nancy doesn''t suit my persona but then again, I don''t go to work in tights !!   [:D][:P]

 

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[quote user="kick it off"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

O.k, great to be 13 games unbeaten but scratch beneath this and after tonights match, thats 4 draws from the last 5 home mathes.

  The time has surely now come for Roeder to admit that his tactics need to change from home games to those of away games. By all means continue to play the one winger one holding wide man option away from home as the away form has been incredible but the fact is unless we play with two out and out attacking wingers at home WE WILL NOT WIN MATCHES.

 To play Gibbs over Huckerby tonight was so overtly and perversly wrong this just simply cannot continue without explanation and clearly is no longer for ''footballing reasons''. I''m sick of us letting these sides out of Carrow Road with a point because we are playing with one arm tied behind our back.

   One win from our last 5 home matches surely now shows that there needs to be a change of policy at home, please do this in time for our next home matches Roeder or we will be letting the likes of Blackpool and Barnsley of the hook with draws aswell.

[/quote]

Yeah great post....not. Think about Peter Grant''s reign and the results accumulated under him - a man who used, you guessed it, two out and out wingers whenever possible. (Hucks and Croft).

The fact is not that if we don''t have two out and out wingers we will not win games. That is utter conjecture. The fact is, we will not win matches unless our strikers stop being so profligerate in front of the net.

To play Gibbs was perversely wrong was it? PERVERSELY wrong? That is a strong word and makes it sound totally unjust that Roeder gave a very talented young player a debut instead of the aging Hucks who has flattered to decieve for the last two seasons consistently. I''m sure if Roeder had left Gibbs out that would have been "perversely wrong" also. There is no pleasing some people. Gibbs has come to play games, Arsenal would not have let him come unless they thought we would play him. Hucks came on last night and didn''t exactly do much to further his cause did he? Did he change the game at all? No. Did he create anything of note? No. Did he score? No. I would say those are pretty damn good footballing reasons as to not start him. Have you been at Colney? Do you know who is impressing in training and who isn''t? I sure as hell don''t so to suggest it is perversely wrong for Roeder not to start a player whose form is more than questionable this season and say it is certainly for none footballing reasons, is in my opinion, perversely wrong.

Why can you not just breathe a sigh of relief we are not going to get relegated? Which is precisely what we were on the cusp of doing before Roeder arrived so, why don''t you try laying off the guy who has achieved a minor miracle purely by keeping us up this season, with a team of what appeared to be no-hopers before he arrived.

We are Norwich City. Proud? Always. Passionate? Always. To suggest that we have a god-given right to beat anyone in this league is not a Norwich attitude. You want to win every game, go watch Chelsea or Arsenal. You want to support a great team, giving their all for the cause under the guidance of a very astute manager, who are improving steadily, one of the best form sides in the league and have not lost since the start of December, then by all means support the yellas, but for god''s sake stop bloody whinging.

The policies of the Grant regime, as aforementioned, were two out and out wingers and Ten games without a goal says that this policy doesn''t work. It never has with Hucks in our team.

The fact is we played against Hull who stuck ten men behind the ball, and hoped to hit us on the counter, which is precisely how they scored. Playing two out and out wingers would have only served to further their counter-attacking cause. Hull were hoping to nick at least a draw and adopting the Keegan attacking mantra would do us no favours.
[/quote]

 

Post of the week IMHO, said what I couldn''t express without getting irate lol

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I''d don''t think the issue is the midfield, the issue is lack of cutting edge upfront. Whilst Dion is playing out of his skin, he''s pretty immobile these days, Jamie can''t buy a goal which just leaves Ched.

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How will you feel about Roeder in 18 months time? He rescued you from relegation, but most fans at West Ham and Geordie s would say that he was a not a good boss, but a very good number two,  coach, development officer, reserve team manager etc.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]Even Man Utd fans question fergie sometimes its called debate, yes we are on a good run but are far from the finished article and questions can still be asked, otherwise we might as well shut the forum or make it a Percy,s dictatorship.[/quote]

Once again, I must ask, who is saying that you can''t have your say. This is your constant claim but I haven''t seen any evidence of anyone saying you aren''t allowed your say. Who is saying you can''t ask these questions?!?!    

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Bloody well said "Kick it off".  Thank god there are some people on here who can actually see things logically and clearly!

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Happhammer/Andy

Who can answer that question?  We aren''t all mystic megs you know.  I have to say that seeing as no one can see 18 months ahead, how do you know the manager the happy hammers now have will be any good in 18 months time?[:^)]

I really feel that people need to cut the guy a bit of slack.  And personally I don''t care what the opinions are of supporters from other clubs, especially those fans that feel they have an axe to grind against our current manager.

I speak as I find and give my opinion, and my findings are that he came to a club that was low in confidence, playing worse than a 1st division club, with fans that were downhearted and downtrodden by the antics of the previous manager.  GR came to Norwich and gave the players confidence that was so obviously lacking, which in turn lifted the players on the pitch, which then lifted the fans.  The players no longer drop their heads when they concede a goal, instead they battle on and fight to get a goal, something which we haven''t seen for a while at NCFC.

And long may it continue,   [:D]

''''Glenn Roeders green and yella army''''.  

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Hmmm, seems like there is a bit more support for my original post tonight.

  If Roeder plays either Henry or Gibbs over Huckerby again this season without explanation, then quite frankly he isn''t doing his job proporly, that job being to pick his best side !.

   We are not safe from relegation yet, we have still got to play the top 6 sides in the league from our remaining fixtures.

 Get the points in the bag first Roeder, then you can worry about who is going to be here next season and who isn''t. While Huckerby is contracted to this football club bloody well play him.

P.s. -  since when did we become a nursery club for that hotbed of football, Reading anyway ??!?

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

Hmmm, seems like there is a bit more support for my original post tonight.

  If Roeder plays either Henry or Gibbs over Huckerby again this season without explanation, then quite frankly he isn''t doing his job proporly, that job being to pick his best side !.

   We are not safe from relegation yet, we have still got to play the top 6 sides in the league from our remaining fixtures.

 Get the points in the bag first Roeder, then you can worry about who is going to be here next season and who isn''t. While Huckerby is contracted to this football club bloody well play him.

P.s. -  since when did we become a nursery club for that hotbed of football, Reading anyway ??!?

[/quote]

To be fully fit, Huckerby needs an operation and recovery time of approximately three months.  He''s out of contract in the summer and wants to go abroad.  Knowing this, would you pay for his operation and recuperation time?  Of course you wouldn''t.

And you only have support tonight because we lost our first of 14 matches and a lot of posters on here have a memory even a goldfish would be unhappy with, while others change their minds on a daily basis.

 

 

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I was there at Leicester, and Henry looked useless, but who are you to say that Roeder isn''t doing his job properly? We have lost 2games in our last 15, with a team Roeder has rescued from the depths of 10games without a goal.

 I''d say he is doing a mighty fine job.

Again, I re-iterate my point, are you at Colney working with these players every day? do you see them in training every day? Do you see who performs in training and who doesn''t? No. You don''t. So please will you bloody shut up.

Yeah we got turned over. The thing is, we have not been turned over like that since Plymouth. Being beaten badly twice in nearly twenty games with a team who were being beaten badly week in, week out prior to Roeder''s arrival, is an excellent achievement in my view.

you are correct, we are not safe from relegation yet, but what the hell are you on about? Henry and Gibbs aren''t going to be here next season, and in all likelihood, neither is Hucks, and I can''t honestly say that I will be sorry to see him leave. Fantastic player on his day, legend for the club, but his days are gone.

Why are you so obsessed with Huckerby being in the team? Are you in love with him or something? Its not like we win more with him, in fact, I think I''m correct in saying on average we have amassed far more points without him in the team. We certainly don''t play any better.

Last time Roeder played Hucks and Croft together, we got done2-1 by Bury. Does that not say it all?

Please just shut up, you''re points are mis-guided and irrelevant. Huckerby is not good enough, end of.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

Hmmm, seems like there is a bit more support for my original post tonight.

 

[/quote]

 

Can''t see any evidence of that in this thread.

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Emotions have been running a little high of late haven''t they?

When Roeder got the job we were, in many peoples eyes, as good as relegated. I certainly thought we were, it wasn''t a fear, it was acceptance and depression as a result! It was the end result of all that had, in my eyes (rightly or wrongly) gone wrong at the club since we won the Championship, something which (and people who read Capital Canary will be familiar with my writings on the topic) I don''t think anyone at the club expected or was prepared for. Sometimes, in the heat of triumph and good times, the seeds for adversity are sown. I''ll drag an old but proven argument into the frame as an example, it all started to go wrong at Leeds United when they spent all that money on Rio Ferdinand, similarly, Benitez could now be seen as having to have failed to build on Liverpool''s Champions League win-they''re now in transition both on the pitch and in the Boardroom, he then blew all of his budget on Torres who he doesn''t even now play all the time & wants to blow a further £20 Million on Mascherano -who will end up another Veron-and, according to the papers this morning, another £20 Million on another Spanish midfielder at Real Madrid...

...when you are near success, when you reach it, that is the time to step back and be clinical and, when we won that Championship, I think our clubs powers that be, giddy with success and praise, were anything but. Helveg was a sign of that, it was "...look at us, Norwich can sign a player from Milan now...", he must have cost a fortune! Similarly, Jonson-Swedish international bla bla bla, but a flop none-the-less. Yes, its all in hindsight, but so is all of history anyway, so...

Our struggles last and this season have been part of the hangover from all those celebrations a few Summers ago. It took a near crisis for the Board to think and act clinically, think what we MIGHT have done, had they done so when we were far from crisis and on a high?

Roeder was the last act from a Board that knew its time was up if we went down-and maybe even the clubs-thank God they got it right, even so, cool and professional decision or lucky guess, who knows, bit it paid off. His brief, to them, to the club, to the players was one thing and one thing only-keep us in this division. Do whatever it takes, we''ll back you as far as we can, but lets make this a short term ambition, think no further ahead than May 2008, but, whoever and with whoever you do it, keep us up!

You can then have the Summer of 2008 to think a bit more long term.

That is exactly how it all seems to be working out.

Survival has meant short term aims, don''t think any further ahead than May, keep us up, get players in that will help us attain that goal. It seems that he has, and, despite what he keeps saying, I would rather like to think that one, two, maybe even three of all these loanees are seen as possible permanent transfer targets once the season is over-Bates and Pearce come to mind as the most possible.

I am a little bewildered as to his "treatment" of Huckerby. Maybe Hucks isn''t fit, I certainly think, if you are looking to stay up, then you need a talismatic presence in the matchday squad at the very least. If he couldn''t play Hucks and Croft together, how about playing Croft in attack, an Evans or Cureton would work well off him I think-but yes, conjecture. Anyway.

The prime objective seems to have been achieved. It hasn''t been easy and not pretty at times either. It has seem a host of loan players come in with, we all suspect, instructions from their Managers of "play them regularly or else" which has tied Roeder''s hands a bit, but he was between a rock and a hard place wasn''t he-do without them and struggle or have them and have selection issues. I ''d go for the latter, so would a lot of people. Anyway, barring a disaster, we''re safe now. The whole play off fantasy was a bit ridiculous and was never going to happen, and, with all the rebuilding that will be needed at the club in the Summer, it might not next season either, though we''re probably all expecting it now! Glenn has done well though, criticism is always going to surround a football Manager whatever he does, Mourinho had it, Ferguson gets it, so Glenn has no chance-but the time is now, the hope is that the Summer will finally see the club settling down and do what it might have done a few years ago, plan to see that neither the trials of this season are endured again, and, that when success comes again, we know how to deal with it and move on, rather than fall off the edge.

 

 

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