Are English Football Fans The Dinosaurs?

[YankeeCanary 0]

For too long has the Mother country of football wrung its hands in anguish as to why it seems incapable of being the pride of the planet when it comes to the pinnacle of competing and winning at football against all other countries. For too long have many fans of club teams in similar positions to Norwich City complained about their owners ( past, present or future ) unwillingness to put money into a black hole filled with risk on the relatively small chance that promotion to the higher tier can be attained, if only for a brief spell. This is the stuff of soap opera discussion in the pubs and elsewhere as the perceived problem gets greater then so does the anguish. It''s always "someone else''s fault." It''s the FA, or foreign ownership of English teams, it''s player greed, it''s Sky Sports. It''s always someone or something else. Just possibly it''s, more than anything else, the stubborn desire of English fans to cling to their traditional approach to the game like dinosaurs in a world that''s moving on. 

It''s the willingness of English fans to support a product and its infrastructure that attracts the skills of the top players in the world from many other countries while top English players sit on the bench. It''s your clamouring for more, more and more, yet again that attracts the attentions of foreign owners who say, not surprisingly, "They must really love their football in England to turn out for so many games in a season, much of the time in inclement weather."

The moment someone starts to look innovatively at how the product can be expanded to attract even more money so many shout "Foul! Not good for the game." Well, guess what? Dinosaurs can''t turn the clock back, at least not without a big bang, and neither can football go back to the good old days without some eruption of mammoth proportions, which is not even close to being realised within the relatively minor compaining of hard-done by football fans.

The African boys ( and those from other countries less economically advantaged ) will continue to get better and better. Their countries will progressively come closer to winning World Cups as England will slowly but surely move further and further away from the prize. Foreign ownership of football clubs will continue to expand and rotate, as surely will the English owners such as Smith and Wynn-Jones eventually tire and fade away, disenchanted with the lack of appreciation for their efforts. English players will increasingly become second fiddle at the top levels. Which begs the question, "Does it have to be this way?" The answer of couse is no, it does not but, in order for there to be a sea change to what is taking place, English fans need to both become involved in that process of change and willing to embrace it. My sense is that willingness is not there. The leaders that are in place SUGGEST ( not decide ) that an additional single Premiership game gets played on foreign soil in a few seasons time. The fan reaction; it''s protest time. What is embodied within the reaction? "We don''t want it." Well, what do you want? So many of you seem to be saying you don''t want what you''ve got now. If you don''t like what is being proposed then demand approaches with new football leadership. Demand it. Be passionate about it. Insist upon it. Get involved. Just stop complaining about what you are turning up to support week in and week out. You resemble dinosaurs moving closer and closer to the abyss.

  

[Robert N. LiM 4,220]

Absurd post. But, in reply, what I want is:To be able to go and watch live football at affordable pricesFor TV money to be distributed equitably throughout the game so the playing field is, if not exactly level, then not as ridiculously sloping as it is at the moment.To be able to watch football standing up.What I want to happen to Richard Scudamore and Rupert Murdoch would probably not make it past the mods.If that makes me a dinosaur, so be it.

[Stevo 0]

What''s the point of a well contructed, insightful and thought provoking post like this? 

I can only hope it gets lost in a sea of ''we8wba should / should not be posting'' or ''I''m gonna hex...no I''m not....yes I am....who cares'' threads.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

[quote user="Stevo"]

What''s the point of a well contructed, insightful and thought provoking post like this? 

I can only hope it gets lost in a sea of ''we8wba should / should not be posting'' or ''I''m gonna hex...no I''m not....yes I am....who cares'' threads.

[/quote]

I vote that he should be posting, anyay back on topic........[Y]

[San Miguel 0]

Your post is far too long, and boring to read so i''ll just comment on the title

i would hardly say English football fans are the dinosaurs when it comes to behaviour and lifestyle - look at the Spanish and their racist problems, and look at Italy with their violence problems. both are in the dark ages compared to England

football is not all about money, and at least the English game is well ahead on some of the more fundamental issues

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

The moment someone starts to look innovatively at how the product can be expanded to attract even more money so many shout "Foul! Not good for the game." Well, guess what? Dinosaurs can''t turn the clock back, at least not without a big bang, and neither can football go back to the good old days without some eruption of mammoth proportions, which is not even close to being realised within the relatively minor compaining of hard-done by football fans.

[/quote]

Lets look at the reasons why people are complaining.

The premier league are going to invent a new round. Just invent it. This will take the league from an even home and away seires to a luck of the draw type scenario. This proposal has nothing to do with innovation. It''s pure bastardisation for the sake of making money in overseas markets, and attracting overseas customers (not fans, customers).

If they wanted to have some games overseas, then by all means, go nuts. My proposal would be to get the Premiership teams out of the League Cup, (they don''t take it that serious anyway). Then, the 20 teams in the Premiership can play off in their own "International Cup". Bottom 8 playoff at home, and then the remaining 16 play-off in a cup, all of these can be played overseas.

The league is the league. Its fair (apart from the obvious rich-poor gap) and it works. I don''t see protesting about this as being old fashion. I see protesting about this about keeping the game just. The integrity of the game (or what''s left of it) should not be for sale.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Judging by some of the early neanderthal reaction I would have to say my synopsis is right on the money.

[ricardo 7,328]

Personally speaking Yankee, I think the Premier League is moving away from the fans. One only has to look at the rows of empty seats at many of the grounds to see that this is true.

Other people in the world may see it as a good thing that our top league has many of the top players from round the globe. Unfortunately all I can see is an uncompetitive league becoming even less competitive every season.

In your country the NFL had this problem and dealt with it by making it a closed league and introducing rules that made it impossible for one or two teams to continually dominate. This is not possible to the same extent in England because the NFL players graduate through the college system. I don''t want to see our Premier league become closed because much of the joy in our game is attatched to the prospects of promotion and relegation. However, it might be a good idea to incorporate some financial restriction to prevent the big boys in the Prem from hogging all the top players.

It cannot be right when one of the big four can buy a top player from one of the lesser lights simply to play him as a reserve and prevent him from playing against them. This in essence has been whats going on for a long time now and all it does is reinforce the uncompetitive nature of our league.

The Championship is a much more competitive league because it does not contain four financial giants.

What the fans demand is a fair competion where the talent is more evenly spread.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]

Personally speaking Yankee, I think the Premier League is moving away from the fans. One only has to look at the rows of empty seats at many of the grounds to see that this is true.

Other people in the world may see it as a good thing that our top league has many of the top players from round the globe. Unfortunately all I can see is an uncompetitive league becoming even less competitive every season.

In your country the NFL had this problem and dealt with it by making it a closed league and introducing rules that made it impossible for one or two teams to continually dominate. This is not possible to the same extent in England because the NFL players graduate through the college system. I don''t want to see our Premier league become closed because much of the joy in our game is attatched to the prospects of promotion and relegation. However, it might be a good idea to incorporate some financial restriction to prevent the big boys in the Prem from hogging all the top players.

It cannot be right when one of the big four can buy a top player from one of the lesser lights simply to play him as a reserve and prevent him from playing against them. This in essence has been whats going on for a long time now and all it does is reinforce the uncompetitive nature of our league.

The Championship is a much more competitive league because it does not contain four financial giants.

What the fans demand is a fair competion where the talent is more evenly spread.

[/quote]

I 2nd that Ricardo, especially the bit about Promising lower league/poorer clubs selling talent to the big clubs only to sit on the bench.

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

I am walking with the Dinosaurs BBC DOCUMENTARY style.

Scumdemore should resign with immediate affect for utter contempt of the game.

Idea beggers belief and shows just how little the England national side is regarded.

Spend millions on Capello and then make the statement about playing games abroad.

However with ideas muted about playing on plastic pitches in the next world cup nothing suprises me anymore.

The whole game, under dimwits like Blatter Scumdemore means IMO that the game is on its last legs. There is nothing positive about this idea;

 I am all for forward thinking but this is shocking.

How about the top five having to play a knockout competition of Crab Football on the beaches of LA.

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]Judging by some of the early neanderthal reaction I would have to say my synopsis is right on the money.[/quote]

''Es gorn bl*ody native ''e ''as.

Ignore the pedant my neanderthal friends.

[img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/spacecraft.gif[/img]

OTBC

[Shack Attack 0]

An intelligent, challenging and thought provoking post YC. Well done to the poster who found it too long and boring to read but thought they would comment anyway [:|].

In my opinion one of the biggest problems with football in this country is that it has ceased to be ''just a game'' and I think this is partly down to the fans. It''s the fans who buy every piece of merchandise, who sign up to the ''exclusive'' text alerts and websites. It''s the fans who buy the newspapers and subscribe to the satellite TV stations who build up average football players as gods. All the while complaining that money is ruining the game.

I''ve just finished reading Behind The Curtain by Jonathan Wilson in which he travels around Eastern Europe to see how football has changed since the fall of communism. In the chapter on football in Croatia he summarises how the attitude to football there has changed. It had a hugely important place in society after the increase in nationalism there was just after independence but as more important challenges were faced it''s importance has waned. If their society finds itself in the comfort zone that we have in England football in Croatia may find itself elevated to the ridiculous level of importance it is over here, where football stories become the main headlines on the news or front page stories in newspapers. By then of course football has become so important due to the amount of money invested in it rather than anything to do with national pride.

It''s the money that attracts the foreign owners, it''s the money that allows those owners to hire the best foreign coaches that money can buy and it''s the money that allows those coaches to buy the best foreign players that money can buy. The fans play their part in generating that money, all of the time demanding success at any cost, so should they really complain when those in charge want to make more?

The fans also play their part in ensuring that our ''style'' of play fails to evolve. We ridicule foreign players who are ''not cut out for The Premiership'' and still have a deep mistrust of flair players. That in turn filters all the way down to the way our kids are coached so that technical ability takes a back seat to the physical side of the game. Where nine and ten year olds should be honing their technical skills we insist on sticking them in full size goals on a full size pitch. Defences are getting more organised across the game globally and if we don''t start producing more players who can unlock these defences we''ll fall even further behind.

You''re correct that fans need to become more involved and seek change in the way our game is run. I think there is a flicker of revolt from the formation of clubs like FC United and AFC Wimbledon, to increased attendances at Championship level and the opposition to the proposed 39th game. It has to start somewhere but I agree that rather than just complaining we have to propose genuine alternatives.

[Warminster Yellow 0]

Yankee, I think you should show some evidence that you have considered the other point of view. Simply to write people off , who dare to disagree with the Premier Gluttons, as ''dinosaurs'' is totally unjust.

Firstly, do you think it makes for a fair competiton when one game will be a total pot-luck draw?

Secondly, who benefits from these changes and increased income? Players wages will increase. Agents fees will be higher. More foreign players will come onto the gravy train making it ever harder for us to develop a capable national team in the future. Will the football be any better? Doubt it. Will the football be cheaper? Nope.

Supporting this would be like the proverbial turkeys voting for Xmas. To call on another cliche, the inmates appear to be running the asylum as far as the FA is concerned, and the sooner they take their insidious globalisation around the world and stay there the better,  leaving the rest of us to do the job properly and await the day the bubble bursts because burst it will, like they all do.

I resent the dinosaur slur people are branded with but if not leaping on any old bandwagon without thought makes me a dinosaur then fine.

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Yankee - The problem with English football can be traced back to the amount of money that is pumped into the top teams, playing an extra game in Los Angeles will not benefit England in anyway shape or form. The plus side of the Premier League is that it has attracted some of the best players in the world, the down side is that young English players find it increasingly difficult to break into the top teams and ultimately that will cost England in the long run. The Premier League has become uncompetitive, hands up anybody that thinks a team outside of Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea will win the title, and they will be the ones that benefit most from this move.......

[beelsie 0]

YC I have not posted for ages because I believed that there is no one out there who can recognise what you and I my friend have iterated for more than three seasons. 

Slightly different reasons but similar content. Yes! YC , you are right on the money.  There is a disease inherent in the genes, just go into our schools and places of work and view our credit card debt, then they moan because they are no longer solvent, there is a vacant space between the ears saying that it is someone else''s fault.  The younger generation cannot and will not recognise their inability to contribute to the pursuit of perfection in whatever path they may choose as a career.   It involves working harder and better.  Also seeking to do away with petty parochial attitudes. Which in turn means amalgamation of powerful money sources and being able to get our financial houses in order, and banish all but the easily solvent organisations who will only employ the best footballers to play for them and no longer will player and agent power dictate the demise of football.  There will become a much larger minor league set up where footballers of a sort will play for small remuneration ;while working part time. Followed by loyal local fans who will pay a fiver to watch, back to the thirties? I wonder.  Best wishes all.

[yellow hammer 0]

Yankee, I think Dinosaur is a very unfair description of the fans that attend football matches today.
If you go back to pre-Premiership days, a football club consisted of three elements who each mutually benefited the other two elements, namely the club owners, the players, and the fans.

Most clubs revenue has always been from two sources. The fans coming through the turnstiles plus the merchandise and meat pies; and from profits in trading players up to higher divisions.

Since the arrival of Sky money, two new elements are now involved in a football club. The armchair football fan - now viewing on a global scale, and the TV companies themselves.

These two new elements are bringing vast amounts of money into football that they are well and truly paying the piper. It''s should not surprise anyone of the development of the game to include a 39th game aimed at this new market, because it is the natural next step in the way that the FA and EPL developing the game.

The problem is - what is in it for the traditional fans, and what is in it for football as a whole? And the answer is quite simply nothing at all.

The have totally mishandled the amount of money that has flowed into the Premiership in the past few years. I would say that their actions have been worse than foolish or reckless. In fact, it would never pass into publication what I truly believe the FA has done to the national game.

The majority of football clubs are seeing falling fan bases, Norwich excepted thankfully, and the transfer system turned upside down, so that instead of the likes of NCFC nurturing talents such as Gibbs and Betrand and selling them onto Arsenal and Chelsea etc, for a nice profit, we are actually begging these bigger, richer clubs to loan us the young men and we are probably paying their wages into the bargain. When they return to their home club, we will receive nothing.

So most clubs are seeing their traditional sources of revenue drying up. Many are prepared to bankrupt themselves on a gamble to get into EPL. The number of clubs going into receivership is on the increase. All while revenue into English football is at a level never since before in the history of the game.

This new found wealth has not trickled down the divisions. It has gone into massive wages for a small number of professional footballers. It has also gone into inflated transfer fees for intra-Premiership transfers and for non-English transfers. Very few big money transfers go to lower division clubs because the best talent goes directly into big clubs'' reserve sides without working their way through the system. There is a knock-on effect to this as young English talent doesn''t get the chance to develop at a competitive level and while the cream will always rise to the top, the English national team suffers from a lack of depth in quality.

From just about every angle that you view the way that the English game is developing, one can see the polarisation of a small set of very rich clubs pulling up the drawbridge behind them, while the rest of football is breaking up and being left behind.

It''s from this point of view that traditional football fans are now demanding that their voices be heard. And demanding a return to common sense. TV money has corrupted the game in this country, and it is no dinosaur reaction to want to clean out football''s stables.

Had the FA handled the Premiership better, we would have seen revenue flowing into the lower divisions so that the grassroots of the game could be strong. English talent could develop in such circumstances and the need to go searching through Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe for first team players would never have happened. The national team would have benefited too. The big four can turn out for a first team game without a single English player on the pitch. It might be great for the armchair fan, and no doubt Korea feels proud to see one of their nationals playing at Old Trafford, but the losers in all of this are the traditional supporters and those who believe in a local community-based club. Traditional football might be dieing out but we''re certainly not dinosaurs.

 YH

[Warminster Yellow 0]

Yellowhammer   

[alex_ncfc 644]

A superb post, Yellow Hammer, which, pardon the pun, hits the nail firmly on the head.

[Scooby 0]

Crikey !! This is most enjoyable. A thoughtful and insightful debate with both sides of the arguement being represented intelligently without insults being traded (dinosaurs appart, Yankee ![;)])

Well Yankee, you ask for suggestions so how about this.  I think the NFL draft (draught?) pick system is great with, I believe, the team that finishes last getting first choice down to the top team getting last pick.  If I''m not correct please advise as I haven''t watched NFL for a while. Would we be able to establish a similar system in each division? The promoted teams getting first choice and the champions last but still the opportunity to trade picks, ie 1 x 1st round for 2nd + 3rd (or however they do it over there).  It would necessitate a pool of players being constructed, say of out of contract players or overseas players who wish to play in our leagues, and probably some sort of wage capping system with players honouring contracts.  What do you think?  There''s probably a hundred reasons why it wouldn''t work but maybe a hundred why it could?  The NFL still seems to be very profitable but much fairer, with no one team or group of teams gaining superiority.

 

[ron obvious 0]

The Romans successfully ran their empire on the principle of keeping the natives happy. To do this they realised they had to provide them with two things; panem et circenses. Food & entertainments.

 Football is part of the mass entertainment industry. That is where the money is ( until the next global environmental catastrophe anyway). In the good old days the masses didn''t have any money - what little they had was all used up getting panem on the table. Nowadays entire industries are based on the desire of pre-teens to watch cartoon figures engage in heroic battles on a mobile phone screen.

So there are two possibilities; either football is a passing fad which will decline, the money will disappear & it''ll be back to jumpers for goalposts (remember Ripping Yarns'' "Golden Gordon"?) or it appeals to something deeper in the human psyche, it will continue to expand & evolve. The days of 100,000 penniless supporters throwing their cloth caps in the air at cup finals will never return.

Ultimately the market will decide.

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

This is how a messageboard can work. With the exception of the "footymad sites", which are usually used for abusing others, there are alot of people out there who would love to be involved in debates like this, especially, when you get different views from different sides of the fence.

Agree with virtually everything written. And that comes from  a premiership club supporter..

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Thank you to those that took the time to read the original message and respond to it. Perhaps, to be gracious, I should also say thank you to those that did not read the message but chose to respond to it. I will offer my reaction to the responses but first.......

The most important message for me was from beelsie, who has not shown up on this forum for quite some time. It is worrying when someone of the older generation goes missing beelsie, as the years go by for all of us, so I am pleased to see you are still around and kicking. I understand that it can sometimes seem not a wise investment of time to post but, speaking for myself ( and I am sure many others ) I would really like to see you keep your hand in from time to time.

Now, back to the thread. So as to make it easier for some of you who did not detect the key points in my original message, let me summarize them with brevity:

• England, as a footballing power, is in a gradual decline and, in the future, other smaller, less affluent nations will have a better chance of lifting the World Cup than England will.
• Many English fans are not happy with the way the Premiership has evolved but appear not to be well organised to combat that evolution.The dinosaur reference that some took objection too was used, not as an insult, but rather as a figure of speech. If English football fan resistance is not organised around the country for the improvement of English football in its entirety, then surely the analogy is apt. You have the fans of the more powerful clubs within the Premiership apparently happily "eating up" the ambition of fans of lesser clubs and English football suffering as per the first point. From an overall fan standpoint this is self-destructive. 
• When those responsible for the English game come up with new ideas surely, from a fan perspective, the most effective response is not simple individual protests of "I don''t like your proposal" but, rather, to come up with viable alternatives through organised response. Perhaps this can be done throughout the country by the coordination of supporter association groups for all clubs. ( Kathy, are you out there....does NCISA link up with supporter groups of other clubs on any issue of common cause? )

Some quick observations sees that Norfolk & Chance thinks the way the Premiership is set up currently is fair. Ricardo does not. I suspect more would agree with Ricardo but that''s what debate is for. Shack Attack clearly sees the point I was attempting to make by what he states in his last sentence. Thanks also for the reference to "Behind The Curtain." I will try to lay my hands on a copy. Scooby and beelsie touch on the same thing from different angles. In North America there is a draft sytem and minor league systems that facilitate a levelling effect so that there is more competition from year to year. This is certainly the case for the NFL, basketball and ice hockey. Baseball is a little different but it still lends itself to competition. It''s not perfect but it''s better than no effort to level the playing field. I''m sure anyone who is interested in reading more can get what they want on Google by typing in "American sports draft system." The input from Ron Obvious made me smile, notwithstanding his bottom line is probably correct. What made me smile is his assertion that the cup final of old will never return. Ron, given that the new Wembley only houses 90,000, very few people are penniless in the world of today and cloth caps are probably out of fashion, you''ve stacked the odds in your favour.

I have to say that the response from yellow hammer was excellent, with the possible over-reaction ( respectfully ) to my dinosaur reference which, as I say, was a figure of speech, and not intended to cloud the main issues. The major point that I think augments your input yellow hammer is, as I have suggested, an organised fan response from across the country. Maybe then those "in charge" will start to listen. That response, however, will have to have a little more substance than "I don''t like what you''re proposing."  Further, Let''s not forget that a lot of the money being generated by the Premiership flows outside of English football. A lot of the foreign players probably take much of their money out of the country, and then there''s the significant portion the government deducts, and not to forget the amount that leaves England to cover transfer costs for incoming foreign players. 

[Scooby 0]

Had to laugh this morning when I heard Blatter interviewed vetoing the 39th game. Said it''ll never happen as long as he''s president of FIFA!!

Hey Happy Hammer Andy, how about a premiership fans opinion?

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Blatter said something sensible? I''ve seen it all now.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Without being disrespectful to posters please let me reiterate, this thread is not about the 39th game. That is just used as an example because it is topical. The thread is to discuss the state of the English game, how it is evolving and whether football fans need to have a more focused and organised input to help shape the future in a more positive direction for the game within the country and, subsequently, how the country is then able to re-establish itself as the football power it once was. Are there any other ideas from posters in that regard?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="beelsie"]

YC I have not posted for ages because I believed that there is no one out there who can recognise what you and I my friend have iterated for more than three seasons. 

Slightly different reasons but similar content. Yes! YC , you are right on the money.  There is a disease inherent in the genes, just go into our schools and places of work and view our credit card debt, then they moan because they are no longer solvent, there is a vacant space between the ears saying that it is someone else''s fault.  The younger generation cannot and will not recognise their inability to contribute to the pursuit of perfection in whatever path they may choose as a career.   It involves working harder and better.  Also seeking to do away with petty parochial attitudes. Which in turn means amalgamation of powerful money sources and being able to get our financial houses in order, and banish all but the easily solvent organisations who will only employ the best footballers to play for them and no longer will player and agent power dictate the demise of football.  There will become a much larger minor league set up where footballers of a sort will play for small remuneration ;while working part time. Followed by loyal local fans who will pay a fiver to watch, back to the thirties? I wonder.  Best wishes all.

[/quote]

Good to see you back Beesie!! [:D]

As for the original post, it has to be said I find it sad the way football is going in this country, you have 50 million going to the last placed Premiership side, and clubs with debts totalling under 2 million falling into administration at lower levels.  As for the Premiership, without 10s of millions being invested in a team no side is going to be able to match the likes of Man United, Chelsea and Arsenal.  It a boring utterly predictable league, the only interesting part of the top four is how Liverpool, season after season manage to balls it up!

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="beelsie"]

YC I have not posted for ages because I believed that there is no one out there who can recognise what you and I my friend have iterated for more than three seasons. 

Slightly different reasons but similar content. Yes! YC , you are right on the money.  There is a disease inherent in the genes, just go into our schools and places of work and view our credit card debt, then they moan because they are no longer solvent, there is a vacant space between the ears saying that it is someone else''s fault.  The younger generation cannot and will not recognise their inability to contribute to the pursuit of perfection in whatever path they may choose as a career.   It involves working harder and better.  Also seeking to do away with petty parochial attitudes. Which in turn means amalgamation of powerful money sources and being able to get our financial houses in order, and banish all but the easily solvent organisations who will only employ the best footballers to play for them and no longer will player and agent power dictate the demise of football.  There will become a much larger minor league set up where footballers of a sort will play for small remuneration ;while working part time. Followed by loyal local fans who will pay a fiver to watch, back to the thirties? I wonder.  Best wishes all.

[/quote]

Good to see you back Beesie!! [:D]

As for the original post, it has to be said I find it sad the way football is going in this country, you have 50 million going to the last placed Premiership side, and clubs with debts totalling under 2 million falling into administration at lower levels.  As for the Premiership, without 10s of millions being invested in a team no side is going to be able to match the likes of Man United, Chelsea and Arsenal.  It a boring utterly predictable league, the only interesting part of the top four is how Liverpool, season after season manage to balls it up!

[/quote]

Totally agree CFG.

But how will it ever change.

Turkey''s don''t vote for Christmas.

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

So many brilliant views on here. Perhaps, somebody could start another one on a different subject that affects all of us football supporters?

Firstly, I think that 99% of premiership fans disagree with the "39 match senario".

I find it difficult to say whether I preffered the old days or now. Those magical days, standing on terraces, eating your pie, watching games which al kicked off at 3pm on a saturday and anyone could win trophies. It must be my age mind, 2 hours standing on the terraces, would have me having a lie down when I got home!!

For me, 1970 was the last time that England stood a chance of winning the world cup. After that, the likes of Italy and Germany came to Wembley playing a completely different game, one which we''ve never wanted to copy, even today. The choice is, do you want to keep playing football the way we do every saturday and not win anything at international level or vice versa, I know which I prefer.

Making the case for the premiership, I would not have had the chance to see the world''s best players, playing in my own back yard, who could have believed that 20 years ago? It is much more of a family game, with vastly improved facilities.   

It was impossible for football to remain in a vacuum whilst the rest of the world''s businesses, were involved in takeovers, huge employee bonuses and the chance of a good investment for billionaire''s portfolio. Would Norwich Union look after poor little Joe Bloggs broker around the corner, or would it be more interested in making it''s millionairres.

Before you run the FA down, is there any other footballing body that cares for so many amateur clubs, kids and proffessional teams?

Could you argue that lower league clubs are as responsible for the lack of youngster''s coming through? Foreign Premiersip players could be looked up to and their skills passed on. By buying in Eastern bloc/African footballers, it kept young talent out of our leagues?

The fanbase is increasing massively in the Premiership and clubs need bigger capacities. That''s why West Ham are building a new 60,000 seater stadium with Portsmouth doing the same.

I see more co-operation world wide between clubs. We are in the process of setting up academies in America with the Noth American associations etc.

Relegation/promotion done away with, which would insure Chairmen against the risks involved

Video ref.

A broker said last year as regards takeovers by foreign investors, "if you think that you''ve seen alot of takeovers, you''ve seen nothing yet"

Championship clubs to be taken over by the wealthiest, like QPR.

Unfortunately, if that''s what it is, the game can only go forward., with more lower league clubs going part time.

Lastly, the end to international football, as we know it, whereby the champions league and other tournaments, that maybe in the pipeline, take priority

 

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="San Miguel"]

Your post is far too long, and boring to read so i''ll just comment on the title

[/quote]

That''s the quality of debate you''re up against, Yankee.  I suspect English Football Fans Who Post On Messageboards are the true dinosaurs.  Giant ostrich-type creatures with their heads in the sand.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Happyhammer dumb Andy"]

Relegation/promotion done away with, which would insure Chairmen against the risks involved

A broker said last year as regards takeovers by foreign investors, "if you think that you''ve seen alot of takeovers, you''ve seen nothing yet"

Championship clubs to be taken over by the wealthiest, like QPR.

Unfortunately, if that''s what it is, the game can only go forward., with more lower league clubs going part time.

[/quote]

QPR will be a premiership side sooner rather than later.  And when they get there they will spend more money than even your lot have.  I guess West Ham are looking forward to these changes having already beneffited from a biased organisation during the Carlos Tevez affair.

If promotion/relegation was ever done away with I would probably give up on football altogether.