Referee - Mr Singh

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

It wasnt meant to be racist, he was wearing a hat! End of!

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Grando"]Well there was a group of chavvy yobs near me at the match who started singing ''The Referee''s a Muslim''. To be honest, I wish I''d had the courage to point out their error and the fact that he''s actually a Sikh, but I didn''t really think it would achieve much other than get me loads of abuse, or just sneering blank stares... The comments on here though are just as bad in displaying that special form of small-minded Norfolk racism, that can be passed off as a bit of a laugh. Whatever the web team says it is racist and should be removed.[/quote]

 

id of got up and stuck one onto them for that!

got me a life ban perhaps but taught the bigots a lesson!

jas :)

[Coelho 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

excuse me for being wrong if i am webteam but surely its racial as it isnt even a hat??

as i said, if the referee was say clattenburg we wouldnt have this topic to start with

[/quote]The fact that the original poster didn''t even know that this ''hat'' is called a turban is indicative of a lot of small-minded ignorance that you experience in Norfolk. It''s exactly that, though – it''s ignorance, not racism. The post in no way implied that Sikhs are inferior referees, it was merely a flippant comment without malice or forethought.

[Snakepit Boy 0]

[quote user="ncfcfaithful"]I''ve mentioned this to the web team and received the below reply

''We view the comment about the "hat" as light-hearted. There is no obvious element promoting hatred or discrimination.

 

If the comment had been along the lines of ''people wearing hats like that shouldn''t be referees'', for me, would fall on the other side of the line.

 

We will continue to monitor posts on this thread.''

the fact that he has used the word ''hat'' is an ignorant comment and racism is born from such ignorance in my opinion!!

But hey we live in Norfolk so it''s only a bit of fun!

[/quote]

What a load of nonsense. It''s not about ignorance or racism. It was a mickey-take rather than a racist comment.

To call him a bomber or a Paki, as some "fans" at other clubs might do, would be the same as calling a black man a nigger or a darkie. They are clearly offensive terms that no one can seriously claim can be used in any way other than offensively.

But to make a light-hearted comment about a bloke''s headwear is no more or less offensive than calling Wayne Rooney fat, Iain Dowie ugly or any of the other mickey-taking songs sung every week.

Of course, there is an argument that ALL such comments are out of order, and that is a valid point of view. But to single out a comment about the ref''s "hat" as being worse than all the hundreds of things said or sung every week seems to be a total over-reaction.

Football matches - rightly or wrongly - are places where the slightest difference is picked up on by the fans. Like I say, that might not be to everyone''s taste, but this incident is no better or worse than any other.

[Dicky 0]

Chill out people, it was a comment about a hat.  Let''s not try and make everything about racism.

[First Wazzock 902]

as to the post - it wouldnt be on here if his name was mr.smith, grow up people. you sort of people who are moaning at this lewis hamilton stuff in spain then coming out and being racist. cant believe the racist remarks are allowed to be posted in all honesty

This racism thing is all in the mind of some people - in this case you, we8.

This thread is talking about Mr Singh the referee and it could equally be talking about Mr D''urso the referee. Can''t see anything racist there then. As for talking about his turban (hat), is that racist? I think not I actually took that as being humorous, which is how I think it was intended.

These days we are too afraid to say anything in case our own opinions are seen as being racist.

And to those people who have read this post that way, grow up.

[Scooby 0]

Thank heaven someone (Coelho) is talking some sense! Has everyone gone PC mad? The comment about the "hat" is by no means racist just because the poster doesn''t know the correct term for the garment. He was merely making a quip about the ref''s apparent inability to see correctly. I believe the web team is spot on. No wonder they''re monitoring the thread though, in case the PC brigade find something else to blow up about. Now, about that dodgy linesman on the jarrold side ...................................

[Misery Guts 0]

[quote user="buddhaboy"]i think monty should stick to cricket.
[/quote]

I think you should keep your racist views to yourself mate

[solid as the doc 0]

You should check out GAY REF on youtube.  No other ref runs backwards like him

[Marty 0]

those comparing this post with the vile cretins "blacking up" in Barcelona should get real, there is a huge difference. It wasn''t a particularly funny post but it is no different to critising a ref for being fat, ugly, small etc. As soon as anything remotely refering to a persons religion is mentioned we all seem to panic, why? I work with and have friends from ethnic minorites and they do have a sense of humour too! to me there are very few things you should nopt be able to laugh at (apart from maybe things like disabilities - but there is a debateing point there also). Also, whilst people are quick to call such posters of a thread like this ignorant, are we no longer alowed to laugh at ignorant people too? there is a lot of tv humour based on ignorant characters (David Brent, Del Boy for instance) - are we allowed to laugh along or at them?let''s not over-react.

[ncfcfaithful 0]

[quote user="Beaker"]

[quote user="C.T "]his hat got in the way........[/quote]

LOL!!

[/quote]well if it wasn''t racist then fair enough but if Beaker found it funny then it clearly wasn''t funny either!!!

[Misery Guts 0]

I wasn''t offended by the comment about the "hat" so much as I was to the Monty Panesar remark, the joke is that, there is a current running under this conversation which is pretty umpleasant. I wondered how far you would have to scroll down before remarks were made about Monty or his turban, IT DOESN''T MATTER. Can his religion or his race for that matter go unnoticed when discussing the subject of his refereeing ? I am sick of hearing the old lie about Political correctness going mad , what barrometer of it are you ? Judge the man on his reffing and not on his appearance

[Stone 0]

[quote user="Grando"]Well there was a group of chavvy yobs near me at the match who started singing ''The Referee''s a Muslim''. To be honest, I wish I''d had the courage to point out their error and the fact that he''s actually a Sikh, but I didn''t really think it would achieve much other than get me loads of abuse, or just sneering blank stares... The comments on here though are just as bad in displaying that special form of small-minded Norfolk racism, that can be passed off as a bit of a laugh. Whatever the web team says it is racist and should be removed.[/quote]

The Chavs singing that are a real embarrassment to anyone associated with the club! Just ignorant morons. 

I don''t think that the comments on here can be compared to that though! As C.T. said - his turban really is just a peice of headwear (although I don''t think it would''ve impaired his vision). It wasn''t a slur on his race or religion!

[Grando 260]

I knew it wouldn''t be long before the "it''s political correctness gone mad'' defence was used. That''s usually the best way of killing any debate stone cold. Well I''m not your typical loony-lefty, sandall-wearing vegan that''s mythically responsible (in the eyes of the Daily Mail) of destroying all that''s good about Little England, but I''m still of the opinion that the comment was racist. And whether it was meant to be or not doesn''t come into it... In my eyes this is typical of the kind of insidious racism that''s rife in this county (and other rural areas that I''ve lived in.)

The fact that a comment about Mr Singh''s ''hat'' even had to be made displays a latent racism - a need to draw attention to the ''otherness'' of a Sikh referee and, by extension, the implication that these foreigners aren''t up to the job.

So when are Archant starting up their new racist jokes board? Should go down a treat...

[we8wba 0]

i understand some points on the other side of the coin

but it is racial just think how it was put together

ref mr singh was poor (by all accounts)

the next main poster put "his hat got in the way"

so why isnt that racism? he could wrote something contructive instead of that

im more suprised webteam allows posts like that, not that people feel like that

i wont lie, i sometimes think stuff like that in certain circumstances such as if i went to airport and seen muslim

but i never say it aloud.

keep your thoughts to yourself if they are offensive 

[Snakepit Boy 0]

[quote user="Misery Guts"]

[quote user="buddhaboy"]i think monty should stick to cricket.
[/quote]

I think you should keep your racist views to yourself mate

[/quote]

Why is saying that Singh looked like Monty - which he did - any different from saying that someone or other looks like Prince Charles? For goodness sake, let''s differentiate between a racist comment (which is derogatory) and a general comment such as this that could have been made about any member of the population, of any colour.

[Snakepit Boy 0]

[quote user="Grando"]I knew it wouldn''t be long before the "it''s political correctness gone mad'' defence was used. That''s usually the best way of killing any debate stone cold. Well I''m not your typical loony-lefty, sandall-wearing vegan that''s mythically responsible (in the eyes of the Daily Mail) of destroying all that''s good about Little England, but I''m still of the opinion that the comment was racist. And whether it was meant to be or not doesn''t come into it... In my eyes this is typical of the kind of insidious racism that''s rife in this county (and other rural areas that I''ve lived in.) The fact that a comment about Mr Singh''s ''hat'' even had to be made displays a latent racism - a need to draw attention to the ''otherness'' of a Sikh referee and, by extension, the implication that these foreigners aren''t up to the job. So when are Archant starting up their new racist jokes board? Should go down a treat...[/quote]

Grando,

Funnily enough, I don''t disagree with the principle of what you say here. I, too, get pissed off when people make offensive comments and then just say that all criticism is PC gone mad.

But in this case I think you''re wrong. Making a comment about the ref''s hat - which was unusual to see on a football pitch - is no different from commenting on a fat ref, a bald ref or anything else.

I agree that using the "PC gone mad" argument is a lazy defence. But it is equally lazy to automatically refer to any mention of a person''s colour, religion or dress code as being racist.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="we8wba"]

 

i wont lie, i sometimes think stuff like that in certain circumstances such as if i went to airport and seen muslim

 

[/quote]

what a childish and purile thing to say... so if u saw a German standing next to a meserschmit at a war museum you''d think exactly the same thing too?

jas :)

[psychedeliasmith 0]

It''s not a hat. Nor is it a turban. It''s a patka.

I really think such comments are unnecessary. Racist or not. it''s just not very wise to joke about such things. I wasn''t at the game on Saturday but my brother was and commented that he heard racist comments in the Barclay End which is not the sort of thing we want associated with Norwich City.

I am in charge of the Official Nintendo Magazine''s website and this is exactly the sort of debate/spat that the teenagers have on our forum. I am very surprised that it hasn''t been stopped myself, especially seeing as I can''t even post a single comment on here without moderator approval. One of the reasons I don''t post on here very often.

[Grando 260]

[quote user="Snakepit Boy"]

Funnily enough, I don''t disagree with the principle of what you say here. I, too, get pissed off when people make offensive comments and then just say that all criticism is PC gone mad.

But in this case I think you''re wrong. Making a comment about the ref''s hat - which was unusual to see on a football pitch - is no different from commenting on a fat ref, a bald ref or anything else.

I agree that using the "PC gone mad" argument is a lazy defence. But it is equally lazy to automatically refer to any mention of a person''s colour, religion or dress code as being racist.

[/quote] Fair enough Snakepit Boy. Guess we''ll have to agree to differ on this one, as it''s a fine line. Your point''s a fair one, but I still think there''s an undercurrent to all this which typifies the kind of subtle Norfolk racism I see in so many people - including, sadly, most of the older generation of my own family. Clearly though the web team were unwise to let this past - unless of course their ambition was to promote a semantic debate on racism. I can guarantee they wouldn''t have printed a letter in the Evening News making reference to the aforementioned ''hat'' though, so it''s a shame they didn''t apply the same standards to the web site.

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

as i said, if the referee was say clattenburg we wouldnt have this topic to start with

[/quote]

If Clattenburg performed as badly as he did, I''d hope there was this topic.  As far as I''m aware I''ve read a few racist comments (that shouldn''t be allowed) like the hat, and the 2 about that cricketer... But most people don''t seem to be racist... Unless your saying that we''re not allowed to complain about him as he''s sikh!  He was poor full stop and would have been whatever race he was.

[Duffman 0]

[quote user="psychedeliasmith"]

It''s not a hat. Nor is it a turban. It''s a patka.

[/quote]


This is the moment Simon Lappin and Dion Dublin found out it isnt called a Turban............
http://www.pinkun.com/content/NCFC/Stats/2007-2008/matches/img/070918Penalty2.jpg

[we8wba 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="we8wba"]

 

i wont lie, i sometimes think stuff like that in certain circumstances such as if i went to airport and seen muslim

 

[/quote]

what a childish and purile thing to say... so if u saw a German standing next to a meserschmit at a war museum you''d think exactly the same thing too?

jas :)

[/quote]

no i was referring to when i went to eygpt, and if you ever gone to eygpt you probably know why, i couldnt help but think that although none of them probably wouldnt do anything to harm anyone. not english muslims jas! i cant help what my brain thinks really, but as i said just keep it to yourself

anyways we all have said our stuff, so lets move on

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

ref mr singh was poor (by all accounts)

the next main poster put "his hat got in the way"

[/quote]

I agree with you that the people who mentioned it were racist, but the ones that just complained about the ref being bad I don''t see0Wow they''re racist.

[First Wazzock 902]

the next main poster put "his hat got in the way"

so why isnt that racism?

 

How shortsighted are you ??

We all know it isnt a hat thats why it''s humerous.

Is this having a go at Mr Singh, his colour OR his creed? I think not.

This is getting blown out of all proportion, Monty Panesar loves the fact that the English cricket fans wear their cut out ''turbans'' I''m sure Mr Singh has had the ''full works'' as a referee and I''m sure he''s big enough to deal with it, without believing it to be racist. So why some of you can''t is just a mystery.

[Hardhouse44 261]

Without wanting to jump to assumptions I wonder if any posters regular or not on here are Sheikh’s. For surely the are the only ones who would be able to judge whether the flippant remark made in this thread was racist or racial.

I''m not for one moment saying that you have to be of a specific religion to find the comment racist or not.

But with that in mind I feel Archant and the moderators a probably not qualified to judge either and a treading a very fine line.

Therefore it would probably be best to remove the comment or even the whole thread and show a zero tolerance on any such subject.

[CiderkiddCanary 0]

[quote user="we8wba"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="we8wba"]

 

i wont lie, i sometimes think stuff like that in certain circumstances such as if i went to airport and seen muslim

 

[/quote]

what a childish and purile thing to say... so if u saw a German standing next to a meserschmit at a war museum you''d think exactly the same thing too?

jas :)

[/quote]

no i was referring to when i went to eygpt, and if you ever gone to eygpt you probably know why, i couldnt help but think that although none of them probably wouldnt do anything to harm anyone. not english muslims jas! i cant help what my brain thinks really, but as i said just keep it to yourself

anyways we all have said our stuff, so lets move on

[/quote]congratulations you finally found out !!!!Back on topic, mr singh has done alot better in games, I know that he is highly rated among League 1,  but may not be good enough for the Chumpionship

[missing in action? 0]

[quote user="Snakepit Boy"][quote user="Misery Guts"]

[quote user="buddhaboy"]i think monty should stick to cricket.[/quote]

I think you should keep your racist views to yourself mate

[/quote]

Why is saying that Singh looked like Monty - which he did - any different from saying that someone or other looks like Prince Charles? For goodness sake, let''s differentiate between a racist comment (which is derogatory) and a general comment such as this that could have been made about any member of the population, of any colour.

[/quote]cheers snakepit boy. you aint got a clue about my background, misery guts. (name is descriptive)the comment i made is not JUST based on appearance, i dnt give a damn about him being of a certain race, (sikh) im buddhist ffs. (does that matter?)but it can be percieved on his referee skills!but then again i guess a joke cant be made without insulting someone.

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

Whether serious or as an ill-conceived attempt at humour, the poster used a physical feature as a basis to explain, discount or ridicule behaviour. If not explicitly racist, it''s crass and unpleasant. It just so happens that the feature in this example is a religious and cultural requirement, which makes it even more inflammatory.

Not racist, but unpleasant, ignorant and pejorative.

Shouldn''t have been let through, and to those who don''t see anything wrong with the comment - shame on you.

[Syteanric 1]

back on topic.. i dont think Mr Singh did badly at all.. far from it.. the linesman on the Jarrold stand side was shocking though! He flagged offside for Lee Croft when Crofty was INSIDE his own half!!!!

 

jas :)