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Syteanric

and now the reality....

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[quote user="ricardo"]

Sorry Nutty but this unbeaten run has just hidden the reality of the situation. It has got the board through a bad patch at just the right time to boost the season ticket renewals and allowed them to make a profit rather than an investment out of the playing side.

I''m all for Glen building a good team of youngsters but truth is they won''t be our youngsters.

Are you really happy that we have become a shop window for other clubs young talent or are you hiding the disappointment that most of us older supporters feel.

We deserve better than this and if we are to ever rise again we need a board with both money and ambition.

[/quote]

But whatever you may THINK, the reality of the situation is that we are on a 10 game unbeaten run - in a league in which it is almost universally acknowledged that any team can beat any other team on a given day.

As for the loans, take a look around - there was an awful lot of loan activity in the January window.  Like it or not, this is the reality for clubs outside the top half of the Prem these days.

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[quote user="3canaries"]

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/full_article.asp?i=2590&w=25&a=0&part=1

I think we do have the money, GR tabled £1m for Taylor and £850k for Patterson, so yes we do have the money.....

[/quote]

 

the article doesnt actually say that..... infact Waghorn (or whoever wrote it) mentiones that we make a 1 million bid.. then an 850''000 bid for Paterson.. it then seems to counter that comment on page 2 by saying he bid for both....

jas :)

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why can''t anyone see that all these loan players are not needed?!

camara, bertrand, ched, bates and gibbs yes

reading players no

glenn im sorry but you have got it all wrong

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football is a business that in recent times has become very very lucrative. With so much money being pumped in to a club there are going to be conflicts of interest when it comes to someones idea of success. some would say winning games, getting promotion, some would say still exsisting as a football club in 2 years, some would say staying in the public eye to market other business ventures (think norwich city we all think of.................) some people would consider keeping the costs down so they get their bonus as a success. everybody has an agenda.

Why was Worthy so successful? If i remember rightly there was speculation about his alleged ''special'' relationship with Delia (friends with delia means friends with the board) Now is that the board being stupid or worthy managing upwards very very well.

Im in business so speak with some knowledge of management systems and hierarchies in business. A manager has responsibilities to manage people above and below him in order to be successful. The football manager wants the team to win, the team to be invested in, the players to be brought in. The chief exec and director of finance want to save money for what ever reason, i would suggest its for a bonus. It not unusual for this to be the case in any business.

The key thing is that the Chief exec and finance people are managers too, they have bosses and targets to meet and it is this by its very nature that creates a conflict of interest. the manager wants success on the pitch and the finance director wants nice numbers on his apread sheet.

In my opinion worthy was successful because he bypassed the people that would ultimatley cause him the problems when it came to finance and investment in the thing that matters, the team. He instead went to the organ grinder (delia)and formed a ''special'' relationship so when push came to shove over any issues of investment worthy told delia that the cheif exec/finance people (the monkies) should jump, she told the monkies to jump and they had no other option but to say ''how high?''

Worthy = upward managing genius

 

 

 

 

 

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Poor Man''s Earnshaw:  How can Glenn have got it all wrong when you agree with 5 out of the 7 loan players he has brought in?  Unless I am reading your post wrong, if so, I apologise. 

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[quote user="Temp the Revelator"][quote user="ricardo"]

Sorry Nutty but this unbeaten run has just hidden the reality of the situation. It has got the board through a bad patch at just the right time to boost the season ticket renewals and allowed them to make a profit rather than an investment out of the playing side.

I''m all for Glen building a good team of youngsters but truth is they won''t be our youngsters.

Are you really happy that we have become a shop window for other clubs young talent or are you hiding the disappointment that most of us older supporters feel.

We deserve better than this and if we are to ever rise again we need a board with both money and ambition.

[/quote]

But whatever you may THINK, the reality of the situation is that we are on a 10 game unbeaten run - in a league in which it is almost universally acknowledged that any team can beat any other team on a given day.

As for the loans, take a look around - there was an awful lot of loan activity in the January window.  Like it or not, this is the reality for clubs outside the top half of the Prem these days.

[/quote]

Well I''m glad you''re happy with it Temp

As for "liking it or not" , well I''m happy with the "not".

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how can anyone of you comment on the loans yet, you have not seen them play together. they have been brought in to form a team that will win games. Wait and see.

Do you think that managers look for players they like without considering the options for the team.

 

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PME: I honestly think we have to put our trust in what GR is doing on the pitch & training field & let things develop.  It may be that Glenn fully expects some of the other loanees to have to go back to their clubs and needs the cover in those positions, or he may be doing Coppell a favour to grease some transfer wheels in the summer. 

 

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I don''t know about the reading two, I have no idea whether they are needed -it depends how good they are. However, I reckon we do need cover on the right wing (Henry) and right back (Pearce) based on the bury game, that they have played together before is obviously a bonus.

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[quote user="ricardo"]

Sorry Nutty but this unbeaten run has just hidden the reality of the situation.

[/quote]

Abso-bloody-lutely priceless!!!

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Firstly, just because we didn''t spend any money, doesn''t mean there isn''t money to spend.Glenn mentioned how we wouldn''T regonise the squad when he has finished, and he seems on track for that. I think, when he said that he was talking about the summer aswell. There is little doubt amoungst Norwich fans that we really need to change a lot of players, the only player that I haven''t heard any critisms against is Marshall. Any large scale squad building is best done in the summer.  That is hard to argue against, look at a 2million Norris, or a 4million Reid to work out transfer fees are just stupid in January. No matter how much (or little) money there is, it is best spent in the summer.I think with the loans and our current players we will avoid relegation and the true building can start in the summer.The contiuned mentioning of players like Zamora and to some extent Ameobi do make me think so people are slightly out of touch of Norwich''s current situation. Although natural, many of us see Norwich as a much bigger club than it is. I''m 26 so can remember Norwich in Europe etc. But to most young players Norwich is a club that has always been in the lower league, apart from one valiant effort a couple of years back. I think players like Scunthorpe''s Patterson are more likely than the Ameobis of this world. Personally I think the money spent on off the pitch facilities isn''t as horrible as most people say. Things like hotels (which Holiday Inn actually payed most of the construction costs for) and resturants supply income all year round and will last longer than any player we buy, at only part of the cost. True they won''t score us any goals, but they sure as hell will pay the wages of someone who will.With Glenn in charge and all the facilities in place, we are in a great place to start rebuilding. The future''s bright, but I am a glass is half full kinda guy.

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[quote user="ricardo"]

 Sorry Nutty but this unbeaten run has just hidden the reality of the situation. It has got the board through a bad patch at just the right time to boost the season ticket renewals and allowed them to make a profit rather than an investment out of the playing side.

I''m all for Glen building a good team of youngsters but truth is they won''t be our youngsters.

Are you really happy that we have become a shop window for other clubs young talent or are you hiding the disappointment that most of us older supporters feel.

We deserve better than this and if we are to ever rise again we need a board with both money and ambition.

[/quote]

The unbeaten run IS the reality of the situation. We are unbeaten because we have a team that has a sprinkling of talent, a good manager and a togetherness and never say die attitude that we had lost. I would rather have had permanent signings, but we haven''t got them so I''m going to have to live with it.

I''m not a sheep, blind or any other of the things that you and your ilk would call me. I make my choice to support this club despite some of their failings, it''s what support is all about. Anyone can stand by and whinge when things aren''t exactly what they want. Perhaps you and Arthur should try to display a little bit of backbone and be real supporters.

 

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Because they are to busy moaning.  I though Jas might have seen that Roeder has money but chooses to keep it until the summer, unfortunately he seems to have joined the negative nancies who have a personal agenda, yes those people who went quiet when things started going well on the pitch but who have found what they percieve to be a chance to stir things up on this board again.  I quite frankly have had enough of reading the rubbish spouted by them and am off to a better place.

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

 

for the slow demise of a once proud club.....Stick your bloody ''''one big family club'''' image up your backsides and give me quality football and a winning side again any day!

[/quote]

How does 10 games unbeaten and our climb up the table fit in with this demise. Despite all the discontent on here the FOOTBALL club is moving forward while some fans are stuck in the past. The manager has shipped out the players he doesn''t want and replaced them with players he believes have the desire to keep the club moving forward. Maybe some of these players will be back next season too. If you had asked me a month ago I wouldn''t have believed so much could be achieved in one month in these times and surely that''s credit to the club.

January has been more than just players out and players in. January has seen us remain unbeaten with 8 points from 12 including 7/9 away from home. I have seen quality football from a winning side. So you can stick your bloody "club in demise" image up your backside! Why do some of you posters never put FOOTBALL first?

 

[/quote]

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[quote user="macdougall''s perm"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"

Yep spin it how you want Mc....Here''s something to think about if you think that GR will progress the Club under this Board.....Come the summer we will hand back 7 loan players to there respective clubs and lose two great players in Huckerby and Dion. Now how the hell are the board going to finance the loss of those players? If any of the loanees have a great rest of the season with us there parent clubs are more than likely going to want them back and if they dont, they will want a fee for a player that properly isn''t that good. Whilst all this goes on clubs around us are establishing settled teams whilst come the summer we''re back to square one. Think about it, the sale of players like lewis who,imo,was agreed to finance short term signings will come back and bite us very hard in the backside.

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you answered my question in the other thread Yet Ralph? Im waiting to see how you, the worlds expert, would do things.

let me help you with this one...

With Southampton''s chronic financial problems forcing the board to bundle both Rasiak and Rudi Skacel out of the door before the window closed, Roeder was ready and willing to pounce after getting little joy from Scunthorpe United in his £850,000 chase of Martin Paterson.

Waghorn then goes on to say...

"He wasn''t for sale in the end," said the City chief, conceding that in the end he had matched Karren Brady''s £1 million valuation on the 6ft 4in centre-half only for Bolton''s move for Gary Cahill to scupper their bid

and

Put the £1 million they couldn''t give away to Blues and the £850,000 of Paterson money that might have been switched Rasiak''s way and Roeder clearly had cash to spend

this doesnt say that we bid for both Rasiak and Paterson now does it Ralp.. or should that be rolph? He spent years making stupid nonsensical noises too.

All this tells us is that we werent prepared to meet the market value of players. so we wait till the summer when more clubs are interested and a bidding war ensues.. i still maintain we havent got the money.. had we of got Taylor we wouldnt of got patterson, had we of got Rasiak we wouldnt of got Taylor... If we had acted at the start of the window instead of arguing through the media with Birmingham City we could perhaps have signed Tiny for less money and then offset the cost with the Lewis and Brown transfers as i said before.

next years annual accounts and the amount spent on wages for the loanees will reveal whtether or not this has been shrewd. im willing to bet NO!

jas :)

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If we win today we are 6 points from the play offs with a small inferior squad and some loanees.  If the money is pent wisely on players at better prices closed season and a couple of canny free transfers, we can with Roeder carrying on as now compete without spending a huge sum.  But dont let that get in the way of your rant - obviously to much time on your hands.

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

so January has gone out on a whimper... its now time to face the stark reality of the situation.

the board have stated categorically in the past that all transfer funds would be available to the manager to strengthen the team.

 In the summer we sold Etuhu, Safri and Earnshaw.... Peter Grant, according to the media, made attempts to sign Iwelumo, Varney and Sharpe... the money was not spent. instead we got Murray, Strihavka and Brellier... 2 of those were free... the fee for Strihavka was a low amount of money...

Peter Grant had the rug pulled out from under him... i dont care what anyone on here says. Remember Hucks voicing his fears at key players being sold and quality not being drafted in? this is somethign that Peter Grant Echoed but which Neil Doncaster took Hucks to task over privately.

Despite the board telling us there was Money available this was not spent... Was it down to Peter Grant being a poor manager? or was his hand forced? that night at QPR Grant played the players he had been forced to sign rather than the ones who, if the boat had been pushed out, we perhaps could of signed.

 Grant Left, Roeder came in... the board stated again that funds would be released for players.... we got in loan signings... some hope was raised that we could make them permanent.

early January we signed Matty Pattison for a fee beleieved to be 800,000 in some circles. we then sold Lewis, Brown and released a host of players... we should therefore, according to the mantra of the board, have had a fortune to spend on team strengthening given the players sold in the summer...

 Im of the opinion that this is B**ocks! the reason we sold Lewis with such a hefty sell on clause was because we spent money we didnt have to sign Pattison... this is just my opinion. Brown was sold to keep the wolves from the door.. again my opinion. although he was a decent option to sell and we got  a good price.

 we signed a host of loan players... 2 of which will be sitting in the stands watching the game every week as League rules state they cant play... are we paying their premiership wages for them to sit watching? id hazard a guess as to yes.

 Neil Doncaster has mentioned that the club had a 7 milllion pound shortfall.. coupled together with the fact that we no longer have the parachute payments... we can no longer afford to bring in the players we want to acheive success.

 True, if the loan players do wel we might try and sign some of them.. but then the better they do the more they shop window themselves.. their value is going to rocket, and the in the case of Bates and the 2 reading lads they all have realistic chances of breaking into their own clubs first team should they do well here.. Gilbert will command a huge fee purely because he plays for Arsenal... Same with Bertrand and Chelsea. We could however probably get Mohammed Camara for free... Evans wont sign permanently... so lets not get excited about that one.. the more he scores the more he ups his transfer fee....

Im pleased roeder took positive steps with the loan players but the reality is they all have to go back to their clubs in the end.... had we of had any transfer money we could perhaps have signed the Reading players and Bates whilst they were still "unknowns" on the cheap.. 3 players added to the squad at a small outlay... but we havent.

 as for a Striker.. Strikers score goals... as Dave Stringer said on the Scrimmage last night Goals cost money... if we were going to get Paterson, Zamora or Ameobi then it would of been down to some shrewd negotiating to try and find a price. We cant offer money that we dont have with no one to sell on to generate an outlay to cover the cost.

 as for Taylor, Birmingham wanted 1 million pounds 3 weeks ago....we could of upped our bid then waited to see what happened. but we didnt.. again this is purely because with the lost revenue from the parachute payments and the shortfall its too high a financial outlay...  No one on this message board would buy a £9000 car if they only had £10 in the bank would they? the same principal applies at Carrow road.

 Taylor is ona  contract at Birmingham City.. a Contract we could of paid off 3 weeks ago.. the only reason Birmingham rejected Coventrys bid is because it was nearly deadline Day.. Karren Brady isnt stupid, she knew full well that if we wanted Taylor and she waited out long enough that if we had the money we would of upped our bid and got him. She knew that other parties (Eg Coventry) were interested, but i think she also knew that we dont have the funds for Tiny.. Accepting Coventrys offer would of been good business for Birmingham.. but not half as good as playing 2 teams off against each other to see who pulls out of the bidding first meaning someone paid over the odds for Tiny...

 Ok so the Brum keep hold of him.. Cover for the rest of the season... come the summer the whole thing will begin again.. and we still wont be any better off financially.

 So.. what now? do we seek investment? do we offload half the squad in the hope of rasing funds for the summer?

 when your at Carrow Road tommorow take a look around, look at the hotel, the Re furbished office, the Travel Agents, the car dealers, Restuants and other business the board have invested their money in... then groan and Criticise Jamie cureton as he baloons another easy chance over the bar.. no doubt some of you will turn to the person next door and say "he''s Rubbish... why didnt we get a striker!" the truth is staring you right in the face.... Off the field activities and 2 1 million pound scoreboards...

 wheres all the money gone? if u find out let me know...

 

jas :)

 

[/quote]

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jaz is a binner as is Fudger, Ricardo, Whittle and one or two others.It''s not too difficult to flush them out. Remember the stoning scene in Monty Python''s Life of Brian."Who threw that ?" You just have to slip in the odd statement and their cockney wannabe indignation soon rises to the fore.These closet pitchfork jugglers will always slip up as everything they post is an attack on the club. Can''t be much fun either knowing that your club has gone from being a plaything of a couple of upper class dipsos, ton o a Northern Rock style disaster, to a cheaply acquired venue for some faceless City types.Any wonder they are endlessly on here.

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[quote user="Ralph Wright"]jaz is a binner as is Fudger, Ricardo, Whittle and one or two others.

It''s not too difficult to flush them out. Remember the stoning scene in Monty Python''s Life of Brian.

"Who threw that ?" You just have to slip in the odd statement and their cockney wannabe indignation soon rises to the fore.These closet pitchfork jugglers will always slip up as everything they post is an attack on the club.

Can''t be much fun either knowing that your club has gone from being a plaything of a couple of upper class dipsos, ton o a Northern Rock style disaster, to a cheaply acquired venue for some faceless City types.

Any wonder they are endlessly on here.
[/quote]

Come and have a drink with me in the River End stand this afternoon Ralph.

You''ll easily pick me out. I''m the one with a blue and white scarf on.

Ha Ha Ha.

 

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[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]jaz is a binner as is Fudger, Ricardo, Whittle and one or two others.

It''s not too difficult to flush them out. Remember the stoning scene in Monty Python''s Life of Brian.

"Who threw that ?" You just have to slip in the odd statement and their cockney wannabe indignation soon rises to the fore.These closet pitchfork jugglers will always slip up as everything they post is an attack on the club.

Can''t be much fun either knowing that your club has gone from being a plaything of a couple of upper class dipsos, ton o a Northern Rock style disaster, to a cheaply acquired venue for some faceless City types.

Any wonder they are endlessly on here.
[/quote]

Come and have a drink with me in the River End stand this afternoon Ralph.

You''ll easily pick me out. I''m the one with a blue and white scarf on.

Ha Ha Ha.

 

[/quote]

Go on Ralphy! GET HIM! Before he escapes over the border with the microfilm of the club accounts![:O]

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[quote user="Ralph Wright"]jaz is a binner as is Fudger, Ricardo, Whittle and one or two others.

It''s not too difficult to flush them out. Remember the stoning scene in Monty Python''s Life of Brian.

"Who threw that ?" You just have to slip in the odd statement and their cockney wannabe indignation soon rises to the fore.These closet pitchfork jugglers will always slip up as everything they post is an attack on the club.

Can''t be much fun either knowing that your club has gone from being a plaything of a couple of upper class dipsos, ton o a Northern Rock style disaster, to a cheaply acquired venue for some faceless City types.

Any wonder they are endlessly on here.
[/quote]

Oh Ralph lad you really are showing yourself up now. Pick you dummy up on the way!![:''(]

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Arthur if you were the manager and had three million to spend  who would you have got in?

Roeder has got respect from other managers who would trust him with thier  up and comming stars, so why

not use this to our advantage ,we could get two or three season long loan players  in june who we would

never be able to afford to  buy. And lastly how much do people on here think that these young  loan players get  a week, i would say nowhere near what the likes of the deadwood we have got rid of in the last year .

So i would like to say well done to the board for getting in one of the best managers in the championship,

i think so far Roeder has been faultless. The only facts are what you see on the pitch  and the results and we

cann''t moan about them, can we?

 

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" Oh Ralph lad you really are showing yourself up now...."In your case Mr Widdle I shall paraphrase the old cliche" If it posts like a binner, talks like a binner and doesn''t go to our games like a binner, guess what ........ ? "

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Oh yes I think we need them. The bigger the squad the more competition for a place. The more competition the harder the boys play. The harder they play the more chance we have of winning. Sitting in the Cathederal Stand today I had an excelent view of the two substitutes when they came on and I think they both played very well. There appearance also coinsided with a period of intense pressure on Preston. The boys scored and Nowich WON. No problem for me. Let us have loads of players to choose from. Let us win matches and up the table we will go. The Board got it right in Roeder. Roeder has got it right with the team. Munby, Wyn Jones and Doncaster were all outside the ground today. I did not see anyone slagging them off. I heard a lot of cheerful greetings.

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[quote user="Ralph Wright"]" Oh Ralph lad you really are showing yourself up now...."

In your case Mr Widdle I shall paraphrase the old cliche

" If it posts like a binner, talks like a binner and doesn''t go to our games like a binner, guess what ........ ? "
[/quote]

Ahhhh didums, tucked up in bed now are we?

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"  tucked up in bed now are we"yep, can be quite exhausting going to games10 minutes before today''s game me - enjoying a pint  in the groundArthur Tiddle - posting another attack on the club on this forum

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At the end of the day we all have an opinion on our club but for me gr is no mug i cant see him comeing here in the first place unless promises were made regarding funds arfter all he knew half the squad he inherited were useless and needed to go so just cant see it. Trust in  the no 1

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And now the reality.

Unbeaten in 11 games.

23 points in 11 games.  6 wins, 5 draws.

13 goals scored, but only 6 goals against in the last 11 games. (If only we could loan a striker...)

We are now closer on points to the play-offs than the relegation zone.

Anything else is just banter, gossip, speculation, and opinion.

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