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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

that site makes reference to the money being paid as "interest free loans to the club"

 Loans get paid back.. who then.. gets this money back.. the Kitty? the site Organisers (nice little get rich quick scheme their fellas!)? or the fans who are investing their hard earned cash?

 The kitty then isnt giving any money to the club is it? its loaning the money to the club in the hope that they might one day get it back.. going by the finances already in place this could take years! so the kitty could take say 5 years to get 50,000 pounds.. gives this to the club and wait more years to get it back?

 the Kitty isnt run by people like the Turners who, whilst taking a risk investing money into the football club, have other business interests they can fall back on...

 If i "invest" £100 into thektty then i expect that to be repaid to me as part of the loan agreement....Will this happen organisers?

 I''ll do a deal with you.. if the amount hasnt risen above £1000,000 in 12 months i''ll chuck £100 in.. cant say fairer tahn that

 

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Jas, This is the problem with the site being found before it was  ready to be viewed, people pick up the wrong ideas, its rather like reading the paper before its been proof read. The money being "Loaned" to the club is meant in the sense of when a player is bought from funds out of the Kitty and is then, at a later date sold, the money from the sale of that player will go back in to the Kitty to be used for further purchases.

I must say thank you to posters on here who have defended us against the attacks on here, I find it hard to understand why some feel the need to do this. 

Just remember what I said earlier there is one BIG, BIG thing happening when we launch which will make some of the sceptics even want to get involved with this. Watch this space and keep an eye on the EDP for the official launch (I promise you will not be disappointed).

Mr John Tilson of NCISA or TIL 1010 which ever you want to be known as, the £100 bet is on with you, if you want it.

As I am sure some of you will understand we have a lot of work to do still, therefore don''t think us rude, but we will not be making comments on an unfinished beta testing website.

Best Wishes all, and good luck against Watford.  Iain

 

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In your post of 9th February Mr.POSITIVE your bet was £500 ! Still on or not ? Your remark about reading a paper before it is proof read is not quite the same is it because they are not printed and published until then unlike your website. By the way TIL 1010 is my car registration number as my birthday is the tenth day of the tenth month just in case you want to sent me a card. Not exactly hiding behind the mask of anonymity is it ?

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]I do wonder why the site was put up when it isn''t in a finished state.[/quote]

Hi Graham

The site was not put up for viewing by anyone other than for us to Beta test certain areas. What happened was that TL 1010 found it somehow and posted the link on here, for reasons best known to him.

 

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[quote user="Mister Positive"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

that site makes reference to the money being paid as "interest free loans to the club"

 Loans get paid back.. who then.. gets this money back.. the Kitty? the site Organisers (nice little get rich quick scheme their fellas!)? or the fans who are investing their hard earned cash?

 The kitty then isnt giving any money to the club is it? its loaning the money to the club in the hope that they might one day get it back.. going by the finances already in place this could take years! so the kitty could take say 5 years to get 50,000 pounds.. gives this to the club and wait more years to get it back?

 the Kitty isnt run by people like the Turners who, whilst taking a risk investing money into the football club, have other business interests they can fall back on...

 If i "invest" £100 into thektty then i expect that to be repaid to me as part of the loan agreement....Will this happen organisers?

 I''ll do a deal with you.. if the amount hasnt risen above £1000,000 in 12 months i''ll chuck £100 in.. cant say fairer tahn that

 

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Jas, This is the problem with the site being found before it was  ready to be viewed, people pick up the wrong ideas, its rather like reading the paper before its been proof read. The money being "Loaned" to the club is meant in the sense of when a player is bought from funds out of the Kitty and is then, at a later date sold, the money from the sale of that player will go back in to the Kitty to be used for further purchases.

 

[/quote]

 

and the club will agree to this will they?

its all very well and good setting this up... and like i have said before i hope it works... but your forgetting 1 MAJOR loophole.. the club have not given their agreement for this venture have they? what if they decide to not take on the money, on the basis that they want 100% of a transfer fee for a sold player rather than having to pay it back into the kitty?

Have you considered what will happen if the club says no?

theres going to be a lot of people wanting their money back.. and quickly too!

jas :)

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" Somehow found it " The answer is easy- it was called google. Believe me my knowledge of the internet is very limited. All i was trying to do was get some background on the Kitty and those behind it and was amazed at some of the information available. NCISA has been asked for its views on this project but what can one say if you are not in the loop but then again goodness knows who is in your inner circle.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]" Somehow found it " The answer is easy- it was called google. Believe me my knowledge of the internet is very limited. All i was trying to do was get some background on the Kitty and those behind it and was amazed at some of the information available. NCISA has been asked for its views on this project but what can one say if you are not in the loop but then again goodness knows who is in your inner circle.[/quote]Exactly. Its not rocket scinece to keep a site hidden - why upload the files at all if its not ready?I love your assumption that any player bought with funds from thr Kitty will be sold and not realeased.Take a look back at the type of player your fund is likely to contribute towards..... 90% of them get ''released''.Bye bye kitty. How will you protect against this scenario? Will the fund pay the players wages (answer = no). So therefore you''ll have no say whether a player is released or left to rot in the reservesThe whole project is extremely naive and ill conceived. I sincerely wish you the best of luck, but its a dead duck.

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I think the worrying aspect for people is still going to be credibility and knowing that when you send money that it is going to go to legitimate people to be used in a manner that is auditable and above question.

I hate to say it but donating on-line through Paypal hardly fills those of us of mature years with confidence, and certainly is a long way from the model put forward originally within the press.

As for "unique" ways of raising money being the wonderful Google Ad-words with figures of 0.03p per click through being quoted.  I for one have never deliberately clicked through on one of those and have taken them off previous web sites I have been involved with to give the web site credibility for the loss of no revenue whatsoever!

There are thousands of portal web sites out there, many offered through get rich franchise operations.  These all fail after a while and so it is difficult to see how this is any different.

Surely your web site should have the constitution and the committee in place before the donation page?

I amn afraid the longer this discussion goes on the less credible the Kitty scheme appears and for that reason I am unsure that I should post this, but I do feel that without credibility we should be careful where our money goes, and that it would be better placed on the 3:30 at Windsor through Dixmar Racing.

 

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Agreed Face.. the fact the club are distancing themselves from this project speaks volumes..

if it was that easy wouldnt another club have done it already?

jas :)

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Mister Positive ,

Just a suggestion but why dont you take your site offline( hidden) until its finished and ready to view?

I personally would want to know more about you and the people running this project befaore I hand over any of my hard earned cash.

When is the launch and when will you be giving us some background about the organisers please?

CA

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]oh dear Jimmy so i am a pillock with my finger stuck up my backside am i ? your ignorant response makes me think even more that if people such as yourself lend their support to the Kitty it is doomed to failure. Believe me old boy we all want what is best for our club financially but dont you think if the site was viewed by supporters from other clubs it would give ammunition to those who see us as carrot crunchers with straw behind our ears ?[/quote]

No, you need to step back and not be so aggressive in your attack on this idea.  Whilst the visuals may not be inspiring the basic principles of the idea are there.  Sure it needs work, sure some of the finer details need to be clarified but in essence it could be a good idea.  Would certainly be a first in this country and could generate important media coverage.  And that could be beneficial to our club in more ways than just financially.

Also, its not important what fans from other clubs think.  This site isn''t for them.  Its an opportunity for every supporter of Norwich City Football Club to make a difference.

The only thing you have said so far that I agree with (slowly trawling through 9 pages!!) is that how this site will work needs clarification.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]" Somehow found it " The answer is easy- it was called google. Believe me my knowledge of the internet is very limited. All i was trying to do was get some background on the Kitty and those behind it and was amazed at some of the information available. NCISA has been asked for its views on this project but what can one say if you are not in the loop but then again goodness knows who is in your inner circle.[/quote]

Right finished trawling through (jesus!!).  TIL 1010, John Tilson, Norwich City Independant Supporters Association.  If thats correct then why are you so opposed to something that could be beneficial for the club when you are perfectly placed to be a very useful asset to get the site moving.

I take it form your ''not in the loop'' comment that you personally were not consulted on this.  Can I then assume that you are just a little bitter that your expertise was not required.

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[quote user="jimmy500"]

Would certainly be a first in this country.....

[/quote]If it succeeds yes. I doubt there''s a club in the football league that hasn''t had a similar scheme at some point in their history.Has the kitty contacted other supporters associations to enquire what worked / what didn''t? I bet not.

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[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]" Somehow found it " The answer is easy- it was called google. Believe me my knowledge of the internet is very limited. All i was trying to do was get some background on the Kitty and those behind it and was amazed at some of the information available. NCISA has been asked for its views on this project but what can one say if you are not in the loop but then again goodness knows who is in your inner circle.[/quote]

Right finished trawling through (jesus!!).  TIL 1010, John Tilson, Norwich City Independant Supporters Association.  If thats correct then why are you so opposed to something that could be beneficial for the club when you are perfectly placed to be a very useful asset to get the site moving.

I take it form your ''not in the loop'' comment that you personally were not consulted on this.  Can I then assume that you are just a little bitter that your expertise was not required.

[/quote]

NAIL AND HEAD  are the words that spring to mind Jimmy. I have never understood this mans attacks on myself and the Kitty. This has been going on since the day the idea of the Kitty was revealed in the EDP.  As Mr Tilson is a representitive of NCISA it beggers belief that any scheme to raise funds for the club would be attacked by a person whos objectives SHOULD be the same.

 

On other things connected to the Kitty, that posters have shown concern with, Paypal is only one option of paying in to the Kitty (for overseas donations mainly), A major high street bank are putting finishing touches to a specially designed and dedicated bank account for the scheme.

GOOD LUCK TO THE BOYS TONIGHT, AND TO ANYONE GOING TONIGHT, WATCH THOSE ROADS.    Iain

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[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]" Somehow found it " The answer is easy- it was called google. Believe me my knowledge of the internet is very limited. All i was trying to do was get some background on the Kitty and those behind it and was amazed at some of the information available. NCISA has been asked for its views on this project but what can one say if you are not in the loop but then again goodness knows who is in your inner circle.[/quote]

Right finished trawling through (jesus!!).  TIL 1010, John Tilson, Norwich City Independant Supporters Association.  If thats correct then why are you so opposed to something that could be beneficial for the club when you are perfectly placed to be a very useful asset to get the site moving.

I take it form your ''not in the loop'' comment that you personally were not consulted on this.  Can I then assume that you are just a little bitter that your expertise was not required.

[/quote]

NAIL AND HEAD  are the words that spring to mind Jimmy. I have never understood this mans attacks on myself and the Kitty. This has been going on since the day the idea of the Kitty was revealed in the EDP.  As Mr Tilson is a representitive of NCISA it beggers belief that any scheme to raise funds for the club would be attacked by a person whos objectives SHOULD be the same.

 

On other things connected to the Kitty, that posters have shown concern with, Paypal is only one option of paying in to the Kitty (for overseas donations mainly), A major high street bank are putting finishing touches to a specially designed and dedicated bank account for the scheme.

GOOD LUCK TO THE BOYS TONIGHT, AND TO ANYONE GOING TONIGHT, WATCH THOSE ROADS.    Iain

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[quote user="I beat Atalanta"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Would certainly be a first in this country.....

[/quote]

If it succeeds yes. I doubt there''s a club in the football league that hasn''t had a similar scheme at some point in their history.

Has the kitty contacted other supporters associations to enquire what worked / what didn''t? I bet not.
[/quote]

I know clubs have had collections to raise funds to keep the club afloat.  Never heard of an initiative like this to raise transfer funds.  Done right and if it works this will generate fantastic media coverage.  Hopefully enough so people forget the lets be ''avin you tirade.

Reading through all nine pages it seems that the organisers have got their heads screwed on.  I would imagine that they have contacted the people they think are important to make this idea a success.

I say good luck.  Nice and refreshing to see someone actually trying to make a difference as opposed to just mindless moaning and whingeing.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Mister Positive"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

that site makes reference to the money being paid as "interest free loans to the club"

 Loans get paid back.. who then.. gets this money back.. the Kitty? the site Organisers (nice little get rich quick scheme their fellas!)? or the fans who are investing their hard earned cash?

 The kitty then isnt giving any money to the club is it? its loaning the money to the club in the hope that they might one day get it back.. going by the finances already in place this could take years! so the kitty could take say 5 years to get 50,000 pounds.. gives this to the club and wait more years to get it back?

 the Kitty isnt run by people like the Turners who, whilst taking a risk investing money into the football club, have other business interests they can fall back on...

 If i "invest" £100 into thektty then i expect that to be repaid to me as part of the loan agreement....Will this happen organisers?

 I''ll do a deal with you.. if the amount hasnt risen above £1000,000 in 12 months i''ll chuck £100 in.. cant say fairer tahn that

 

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Jas, This is the problem with the site being found before it was  ready to be viewed, people pick up the wrong ideas, its rather like reading the paper before its been proof read. The money being "Loaned" to the club is meant in the sense of when a player is bought from funds out of the Kitty and is then, at a later date sold, the money from the sale of that player will go back in to the Kitty to be used for further purchases.

 

[/quote]

 

and the club will agree to this will they?

its all very well and good setting this up... and like i have said before i hope it works... but your forgetting 1 MAJOR loophole.. the club have not given their agreement for this venture have they? what if they decide to not take on the money, on the basis that they want 100% of a transfer fee for a sold player rather than having to pay it back into the kitty?

Have you considered what will happen if the club says no?

theres going to be a lot of people wanting their money back.. and quickly too!

jas :)

[/quote]

 

please can u address the above comment Mr Positive...

 

jas :)

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Must admit Jas can''t see how an interest free loan system will work.  The money must be given as a gift, but then how would that work.  Would we own the player i.e Mascherano, Tevez? Would the club own the player.  If said player is sold at an inflated profit do we get it, if said player is sold with a sell on clause, does that come to us when activated.  All questions that need answering.

I am sure all this will be revealed in due course.  And while I am in total support of the idea some of the finer details do need clarification.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

Its all very well and good setting this up... and like i have said before i hope it works... but your forgetting 1 MAJOR loophole.. the club have not given their agreement for this venture have they? what if they decide to not take on the money, on the basis that they want 100% of a transfer fee for a sold player rather than having to pay it back into the kitty?

Have you considered what will happen if the club says no?

theres going to be a lot of people wanting their money back.. and quickly too!

 

 

please can u address the above comment Mr Positive...

jas :)

[/quote]

and could you also reply to my last post Mr Walpole

 

 

 

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In answer to Mr POSITIVE and JIM500 this is not an attack but obviously you see it as such.The fact is that serious concerns about how this will work and the identities of those behind it are brushed aside post after post. Now we are told that a major high street bank are putting together a "specially designed and dedicated "bank account.Any business will tell you that there is a large fee to set up a direct debit and such accounts run up quarterly fees. Then again what do i know JIM as you think i am a pillock according to one of your previous posts.Of course NCISA and for that matter every other group or organisation are "perfectly placed to be a very useful asset" but i suggest you ask the KITTYMEISTER why he has bulldozed ahead without consultation or a brainstorming meeting with any such body.I will also say that i know for a fact that only one meeting has taken place with two officials at NCFC.It was a listening exercise by the club and nothing more.

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Im still waiting for the organisers to confirm that the club have actually agreed to this scheme....

until NCFC says "yes" then this will never happen...

jas :)

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Just an idea but why dont the Kitty people, NCISA and the Trust get together to talk through the idea rather than do it on a message board.

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C.A. Mr WALPOLE has been sent my home and mobile no by private e-mail but the response was negative.I totally agree with you that a meeting would be the way forward for all concerned.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]C.A. Mr WALPOLE has been sent my home and mobile no by private e-mail but the response was negative.I totally agree with you that a meeting would be the way forward for all concerned.[/quote]

 

Well you can''t do anymore Tilly. I just think if it was me trying to set up a new idea to help the club I would consult all the various organisations, the club and as many people as possible before any launch.

A meeting for all interested parties needs to be called so that we can see how it will work and raise any concerns that we may have.

Surely that makes common sense.

 

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I don''t understand why the "Kitty" organisers have to appease John Tilson.  Surely he can ask questions in the same way every other supporter can or perhaps wait for the website to be properly launched.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]In answer to Mr POSITIVE and JIM500 this is not an attack but obviously you see it as such.The fact is that serious concerns about how this will work and the identities of those behind it are brushed aside post after post. Now we are told that a major high street bank are putting together a "specially designed and dedicated "bank account.Any business will tell you that there is a large fee to set up a direct debit and such accounts run up quarterly fees. Then again what do i know JIM as you think i am a pillock according to one of your previous posts.Of course NCISA and for that matter every other group or organisation are "perfectly placed to be a very useful asset" but i suggest you ask the KITTYMEISTER why he has bulldozed ahead without consultation or a brainstorming meeting with any such body.I will also say that i know for a fact that only one meeting has taken place with two officials at NCFC.It was a listening exercise by the club and nothing more.[/quote]

No I don''t think you are a pillock.  Just wanted to create an offensive post to provoke your reaction.  I am not sure if things are being brushed aside as you claim, I imagine that the identities of all involved will be revealed when the site goes official, along with the finer details of how the site will work.

The reason I posted an offensive reply to an earlier post is that throughout this whole thread you have posted nothing with any constructive comment.  For someone who is clearly educated this isn''t great.

What I personally would like to see is a copy of the business plan/mission statement from the Kitty organisers.  Clarification that dialogue has been had/arranged with NCISA/FONCY/NCFC and the Kitty organisers, minutes of these would be good too.  After all if this is a public NCFC thing then there is obviously nothing to hide.

As previously said, the website isn''t ready, the Kitty organisers aren''t ready and this thing has leaked too early.  I personally think you should have waited for the finished article.  You have judged and criticized too early making sensible dialogue between the organisers and NCISA awkward in the future.

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Jimmy I think that this time round you are spot on that a coordinated approach, or at least liaison between the different parties is to be welcomed.

Where you are wrong is to criticise comment based upon the website which may well not be finished but in the absence of comment/update etc several posters on here were awaiting at "the end of the month" of February as had been heralded by the organisers that I personally only knew as Crabby Canary and Mr Positive.

To me whether NCISA or the Supporters Trust is talked too is not necessarily essential, although surely it can only be for the greater good, but the critical factor is knowing that any monies donated are going to a reputable and credible body.

Several people on this message board will have seen how important it is to be "above board" on organising even an office sweepstake or a pub raffle to realise that something like this is an absolute minefield without proper legal trust agreements (and believe me the banking side of that is not easy) and properly audited accounts.

When you are then still dealing with a Mr Positive and a Crabby Canary it is difficult to keep a straight face let alone sign a cheque.

I still cannot see why anyone would give to this rather than the Supporters Trust, or indeed the Club direct through preference shares or the Ambassadors Club etc.

Or indeed why not upgrade your season ticket to a better one or buy some more merchandisse from the shop.

This is not anyone near as well thought out as the Liverpool scheme or even Ebbsfleet FC.

 

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Ok all this is the LAST post until we are ready to launch, It is not that anyone from Norwich City Kitty does not what to be open and keep the fans informed. The reason behind calling a halt to posting on here is that things are very much ongoing and certain aspects of the Kitty change (bear in mind there is no previous model to work from).and I don''t want certain posters to start saying you told us this then you do that.

City Angel the names of those working with or for the scheme will be published and available to everyone, but not at this time, rest assured these are highly respected people and some will surprise you all.

The bank account is a dedicated one that as I said has been designed for us with preferential rates that can operate in the best needs/interests of the Kitty. The banks chief executive has even given it his blessing and is extremely interested in the Kitty and in its succsess.

 I had a meeting with Neil Doncaster and Andrew Cullen before starting this, the reason the club has distanced itself from the Kitty, is that if they were to close to the scheme just think how many fans would say that the club are trying to beg money of the fans. In my eyes that is the only way the scheme would work, with the Kitty and NCFC being removed from each other (except twice a year when we give them the funds to by a player/players).

I agreed to talk to NCISA on the day the story came out in the EDP, then Mr Tilson came along, and I agreed to talk to him I emailed my details to him, he has my telephone number and I am always available to speak to anyone.

The launch of the Kitty will now be in April, this is to iron out any final issues we have, remember on launch day there will be a big surprise for all that will make the biggest sceptics want to join in and sign up to the direct debits.

One final thing remember we will not post anymore on here until the launch.

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Hi all,

We have been exceptionally busy getting the kitty prepared for obvious reasons, just a few answers to some questions for posters on here.

1) The website was live as I was running revenue tests for AdSense to see the returns on different topics, finding out which pay more etc.

2) We have never wanted to get into arguments with Mr Tilson or the his association. The stunt with posting a new thread to undermine the Kitty was little below the belt, I believe one poster questioned him and asked if he lived over the border, I would advise Mr Tilson to wait for the final Explanation of the kitty. The Kitty has a different agenda to other associations so had to be independent.. Mr Tilson is hardly making life easy as he also could have talked to myself which never happened.

3) People can see clearly that the Kitty means business as there has been lots of work behind the scenes, it will help the club as well as the fans.. As it is an independent fund it is can only be spent on players...

4) Everyone has seen the effect of early release with the website but it is there for all to see i will develop it before your eyes. Constructive suggestions are always welcome as it is a fans site) But officially the structure and rules etc have to water tight, and with clear intentions and agreements.

5) Myself and Mr Walpole will have ZERO access to any funds.. We came up with the idea and we are making it happen as we are fans and believe this can work.. Trust is paramount and the supporters funds have to be managed safely. 100%

6) Who is crabby canary?

7) Jim kindly voiced concerns about Google AdSense, This is true what you say but we are not advertising "Click adds on site" there is reference to how Google AdSense works but this is not the only revenue stream.. Its just part of the earnings the kitty can expect if people are aware via sites like this etc, my philosophy is why wouldn''t supporters use the kitty Goggle search box, if the fund benefits thats great.  If volume amounts of supporters use it i''m sure Google wouldn''t want us banned only to start using Yahoo..or msn for that matter.. I use AdWords for my internet business and have contacts at Google also.

Norwich City supporters now have a voice through this site, It is time to get behind it and save it as your home page,  I will expand it and make it a site that other clubs envy.. Lets get every supporter in the country wishing they could do this...

                                                                Do you think they will find someone willing to do it for free?

Make The kitty Your Homepage!!

What every happened to trust, has it been eradicated by society?

 

 

 

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so the club have said they want nothing to do with it, are distancing them selves from it.. and have not given it any type of approval...

that says all it needs to say....

 the kitty is dead everyone.. put ur 50p''s back in ur money boxes....

the "cheif exec" of a high street bank says its brilliant.. but then he isnt on the board of Norwich City FC is he? anything that makes a bank money is going to be "Brilliant" isnt it...

 Only a mug will put their money into it! it wont be going in 12 months time.. in fact it wont be going in 12 weeks time if THE CLUB want nothing to do with it.

jas :)

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