We are as good as broke!

[Norma Stick 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Don''t agree eh? then show me the evidence to support you.

With only 5 days left of the transfer window, four, if you count the Southampton game, our squad is now much smaller than it was on Jan 1st, players have been sold and weak promises (as always) have been made....................but still ziltch!.

I see zero evidence of the Turners use, Delia''s gone into hiding (again!) and there''s no sign or hint of real team building anywhere.

And God help us if we get two major/key injuries or suspensions!.

WE ARE ALL BUT BROKE.

Prove it otherwise!.[:|]

[/quote]

I bet you''re a real ''life and soul of the party'' kinda guy, eh Wiz?  I don''t think I''ve ever seen a positive quote from you.  Do you live by the addage every silver lining has a cloud?  Stop posting such utter doom and gloom.

[sydneysider 0]

we won''t pay wages???? Cureton is rumoured to be on £8k a week................

we''re broke?? So what? Just about every team is...........

[Old Shuck 183]

Of course we''re broke Wiz! We have been for years now, infact, in our 100 year plus history, we/ve probably been "broke" for most of that time!

Unless you are a massive, massive club, football doesn''t make year upon year of profit. And even being a "big club" doesn''t guarantee that, look at Liverpool, their owners have refinanced them (aka remorgage) for over £300 Million, just so that they''ve enough capital left over from the original amount to build their new stadium. But its all debt. Benitez is throwing a strop as he hasn''t go any money to spend, they want Mascherano but can''t afford him & the clubs fans are questioning their ambition and wondering where all the money is-sound familiar?

Real Madrid are possibly the biggest and most well known football club in the world, they were over £300 Million in debt themselves and would have gone under, had the Spanish Government not bailed them out. Chelsea were dead and buried until Abramovic came along & the much vaunted "take overs" of clubs like Ipswich, Coventry, Derby-clubs at our level-are, again, only existing debts going from one person or organisation to another. Its robbing Peter to pay Paul, its using your Visa card to pay off your Mastercard.

Look at what the medium sized football clubs provide-about 25 or so games a season, over a period of 365 days, in order to generate the sort of interest and finance to pay all of its outgoings-of which, the yearly wages/bonuses of perhaps 16-18 so called "elite" players might be in the region of £6-8 Million per year alone!

Find that. But also pay everyone elses wages, ground maintenance, debts, marketing, bla bla bla-its a money pit. You don''t do it to make money-so, in order to generate more, all the clubs (and this is "club" in general, not just ourselves) can do is think of additional ways of making money to help fund these enormous committments-yet when we do just that, people are up in arms, protesting that Norwich should be focusing on football and signing players, not additional ways of generating some income in order to maybe sign some players and focus on the football-indeed, if only we could JUST focus on the football!

It would be nice to think we''ve made £800''000 on Lewis and Brown so lets just take £250''000 of that amount and add it to the £750''000 we already had and "voila", thats Tiny signed. But no club gets all the money up front, and no club gets anything like the whole amount quoted, with Lewis, for example-and he looked suspect yesterday-I bet part of that amount is payable when Peterborough get to the Prem or if he plays for England whilst with them. Neither of those will ever happen, so, if that is part of the quoted fee, write that proportion off immediately.

So yes, we are skint. Thats no exclusive or far sighted revelation, we are and we know it. And we will remain that way unless someone comes in and changes that situation, and thats not refinancing, thats coming in, giving the club, yes, GIVING the club, say £20 Million to pay off all debts and then saying "...and heres an additional £10 Million for transfers..."-and who is going to give a football club £30 Million odd with no chance of ever seeing a return, maybe some are wealthy and stupid enough, but not one we''ll ever see in our boardroom, and never Delia, never the Turners, and not, despite all the ballyhoo, Peter Cullum-he hasn''t made a personal fortune over his working life just to throw it all away on a football club and never will.

This is always how it is going to be, this season, next season, the season after that and in ten years time as well. Its a hand to mouth existence and we have to accept that it will remain that way. There are no short cuts, no fairy tale billionaires, no sudden unknown piles of cash that we can suddenly produce. Its annoying, its frustrating, its a way of footballing life, for us, and for nearly everyone.

 

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="ronbol ronbol"]I suggest that people who say ''read the accounts'' probably have no idea how to read them anyway. just an easy get out of jail card that people play from time to time..........[/quote]

Not at all. There is little point trying to to summarise the

accounts on here. A) I haven''t the time nor the will and B) nobody would

believe it. So anyone who doubts the numbers should read it. No, of course they

wont, much better to moan and whine like a bunch of kids.

Our debt by the way has liitle bearing on transfer funds. The assets that so

many of you deride cover the debts and keep the repayment structure affordable

as any company structure.

 

What I do know, is that we have enough 5 or 6 Taylors, though I will be

very pleased to see Roeder holding that cash back until the summer.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="king of latvia"]

 

wiz do you still go and do you have a season ticket ?

[/quote]

I go when I can these days King, and yes, I''m a paid up member of the club and must renew it this week, but no, I''m no longer a season ticket holder I''m afraid to say.[:(]

[Chesney Hawkes 0]

[quote user="James Maloney"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Don''t agree eh? then show me the evidence to support you.

[/quote]Look, you daft old codger.  I''ll show you the evidence first thing February 1st.  Until then, stop your attention seeking.[/quote]Probably does sound a bit harsh, Wiz.  Apologies for any offence caused.  A more tactful version would be:Trying to disprove a negative is not going to be possible before the transfer deadline.  I do however believe money is available and we''ll be spending some of it prior to the deadline.  I don''t believe the club has no money available for players.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="JC"]

 

Why dont you wait until the end of the window?  But as usual I suspect this more of a ''look at me'' thread.

 

 

[/quote]

Every single post on this message board could be termed ''look at me'' JC..................including yours![:|]

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="James Maloney"][quote user="James Maloney"]
Look, you daft old codger.  I''ll show you the evidence first thing February 1st.  Until then, stop your attention seeking.

[/quote]

Probably does sound a bit harsh, Wiz.  Apologies for any offence caused. 

[/quote]

No lasting offence taken James, but thanks anyway. We all do it now again.[;)]

[First Wizard 0]

So 3 loanees is all we can manage eh? and two of them are Reading kids who''ll be useless in a relegation dogfight. Even Forest are making 1 million pound deals...................that amount would have brought Tiny here!.[:|]

I stand by what I said............we''re all but broke.

Todays farcical dealings back me up........and the Board should now explain where the money has gone.

If they dare!.

[Duffman 0]

Chill out man and have a [B]    Oooooooohhh Yeeeahhhhhhhh

[ca 1]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

So 3 loanees is all we can manage eh? and two of them are Reading kids who''ll be useless in a relegation dogfight. Even Forest are making 1 million pound deals...................that amount would have brought Tiny here!.[:|]

I stand by what I said............we''re all but broke.

Todays farcical dealings back me up........and the Board should now explain where the money has gone.

If they dare!.

[/quote]

 

We''re not in a relegation dogfight Wizard and we''re 10 games unbeaten.

 

I think this is just a temp fix until the summer when more players will be available at a more reasonable price.

Trust Glenn, he hasn''t let us down yet.

[ricky knight 0]

Hey Wiz, you are on a loser mate, the percy''s will have you believe all these kids we are signing are world beaters, we are heading for the playoffs, we are not really 16th in the league, Delia is our saviour, Nobody will come to Norwich we are isolated, have they been outsde norfolk lately two hours london and is Norwich not projected to increase population of 90 grand in the next 20 year, some people want to come here obviously. Lesser teams than us are spending dough on pxss poor crowds but players dont want to come here and play in front of 25,000 every home game with some of the best training facilities in europe, something is not right maybe we are just too tight and lack ambition, just a suggestion.

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

So 3 loanees is all we can manage eh? and two of them are Reading kids who''ll be useless in a relegation dogfight. Even Forest are making 1 million pound deals...................that amount would have brought Tiny here!.[:|]

I stand by what I said............we''re all but broke.

Todays farcical dealings back me up........and the Board should now explain where the money has gone.

If they dare!.

[/quote]Wiz, you repeat this farce of a post every transfer window, is there any point to it? Yes I suspect we do not have a large transfer fund but at the same time I do not belive us to be "broke" Niether you nor I can prove it either way to be honest, have faith in Roeder''s judgement  I have every belief that there is no chance of us being relegated now and we will survive comfortably.

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

So 3 loanees is all we can manage eh? and two of them are Reading kids who''ll be useless in a relegation dogfight. Even Forest are making 1 million pound deals...................that amount would have brought Tiny here!.[:|]

I stand by what I said............we''re all but broke.

Todays farcical dealings back me up........and the Board should now explain where the money has gone.

If they dare!.

[/quote]

Spot on, Wiz. I think Glenn just might have been scraping the bottom of the barrel here with these loanees, but having let six players go he felt he had to bolster the numbers a bit in the squad. It would appear he didn''t have a great deal of choice when it came down to players available who were willing to come here, and the board''s parsimony/poverty certainly has not helped matters yet again!

[The Judge 0]

I also tend to agree that we have little or no money to spend.

However if Roeder is unable to get the players he wants with the little money he has, then he is right not to pay over inflated Jan prices for average players.

I do however feel disappointed in that we are having to resort to reserve team loans. I bet the board are rubbing their hands that Roeder & Clark have worked miracles and got us in to the league position we have, because if they hadn''t they would have been under significantly more pressure to get the players in that would keep us up - and our transfer budget (or lack of it)  would have become very transparent indeed.

Yet now they will get the spin masters out in force over the next few weeks with season ticket renewal looming large, saying that the players we wanted were unavailable, to expensive in the january window, etc etc and give us the promise and hope of good signings in the summer.

This may be true - but how many times over the past 4 / 5 seasons have we all looked forward to the transfer windows with hope that the board will finally change their colours and invest in the quality needed only to be let down and disappointed time and time again. This is my worry for the summer aswell. No doubt those on this forum who said "wait until the end of Jan before you start having a go" will now take in the spin from the club and look forward to the summer for all those fantastic signings we will make then.

One thing we now know for sure is that the Turners aren''t prepared to invest significant amounts of cash - otherwise they would have done it by now. We have seen absolutely no improvement in our transfer fund since their involvement and money from the sales of players both in the summer and now seems to have gone to the same place as other transfer income in the past despite the fact their £2m LOAN was there to ensure no players had to leave !! I am in no doubt that the issues with sub prime loans and the financial impacts on the success of their business has to be taken in to consideration - but a £2m LOAN for a place on the board of one of the top 30 football clubs in England is a joke. Basically all they are foregoing for a place on our board is the interest they could have got on their money if they had invested it somewhere else - not bad eh.!

New investment is vital for NCFC to move forward and if they can''t/won''t give it, they need to move aside a let someone who is.

Lets not kid ourselves, if Roeder and Clark don''t get the funds and backing they deserve - they will go. Other clubs will see what they have achieved at Norwich and the calls will come in. Perhaps them leaving is the only thing that will make some realise the board are fundamentally the thing that is holding our club back.

Investors are out there, Derby have yet again proved this to be the case, yet we don''t get a sniff because of the entrenched views our board hold true. 

Still we can all look forward to the summer when we will see the money being spent can''t we...............

 

[Canary 1]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Don''t agree eh? then show me the evidence to support you.

With only 5 days left of the transfer window, four, if you count the Southampton game, our squad is now much smaller than it was on Jan 1st, players have been sold and weak promises (as always) have been made....................but still ziltch!.

I see zero evidence of the Turners use, Delia''s gone into hiding (again!) and there''s no sign or hint of real team building anywhere.

And God help us if we get two major/key injuries or suspensions!.

WE ARE ALL BUT BROKE.

Prove it otherwise!.[:|]

[/quote]

1st Wizard,

Why are you such a pessamist, you don''t know what monies NCFC has and plainly you are out of your depth and make claims which are completly unfounded.

If you can''t make comments which have some basis of truth, then don''t bother making them 

 

 

[Carrow89 0]

Of course the logical conclusion the the old doddery''s nonsense is that the club should have held over some money from the summer to have some avaialble now.I could imagine his bleatings had the club suggested this was the case in August.The club has quickly rectified it''s error in appointing Grant. It ensured that there were funds available to Roeder to pull us out of the whole. Funds that meant we could pay of numerous contracts and take on new staff and players.We''ve had a hell of a run and if the evidence is anything to go by ie Roeders ability to find and motivate players then things are looking good.Unfortunately 1st miz has his " old boy down the Legion moaning " hat on and so in the absence of posts about our imminent relegation there ain''t much else he can come up with.Maybe I might suggest we compare how his predictions and professising compare with the clubs results.

[O.T.B.C 0]

We will spend the money in the summer, thats what I reckon. We all know that we don''t have a lot of money but we do not want to be spending all the funds now, when every body is so more expensive. I think the loans will not be cheap but as they are all youngest, I imagine that all of them would be under 4k a week. Ched, Plastic, Mo, Bates, and the 2 Reading players, dunno how we can play all of them thou, are team will be very young and all loans, but I trust in what GR is doing.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]Of course the logical conclusion the the old doddery''s nonsense is that the club should have held over some money from the summer to have some avaialble now.

I could imagine his bleatings had the club suggested this was the case in August.

The club has quickly rectified it''s error in appointing Grant. It ensured that there were funds available to Roeder to pull us out of the whole. Funds that meant we could pay of numerous contracts and take on new staff and players.

We''ve had a hell of a run and if the evidence is anything to go by ie Roeders ability to find and motivate players then things are looking good.

Unfortunately 1st miz has his " old boy down the Legion moaning " hat on and so in the absence of posts about our imminent relegation there ain''t much else he can come up with.

Maybe I might suggest we compare how his predictions and professising compare with the clubs results.




[/quote]

Two bad injuries and lets see who moans first mate.

Glen on pitch matters has been superb for us.................on transfers.............. he''s only signed Matty....................everyone else still belongs to other teams!.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="The Judge"]

I also tend to agree that we have little or no money to spend.

However if Roeder is unable to get the players he wants with the little money he has, then he is right not to pay over inflated Jan prices for average players.

I do however feel disappointed in that we are having to resort to reserve team loans. I bet the board are rubbing their hands that Roeder & Clark have worked miracles and got us in to the league position we have, because if they hadn''t they would have been under significantly more pressure to get the players in that would keep us up - and our transfer budget (or lack of it)  would have become very transparent indeed.

Yet now they will get the spin masters out in force over the next few weeks with season ticket renewal looming large, saying that the players we wanted were unavailable, to expensive in the january window, etc etc and give us the promise and hope of good signings in the summer.

This may be true - but how many times over the past 4 / 5 seasons have we all looked forward to the transfer windows with hope that the board will finally change their colours and invest in the quality needed only to be let down and disappointed time and time again. This is my worry for the summer aswell. No doubt those on this forum who said "wait until the end of Jan before you start having a go" will now take in the spin from the club and look forward to the summer for all those fantastic signings we will make then.

One thing we now know for sure is that the Turners aren''t prepared to invest significant amounts of cash - otherwise they would have done it by now. We have seen absolutely no improvement in our transfer fund since their involvement and money from the sales of players both in the summer and now seems to have gone to the same place as other transfer income in the past despite the fact their £2m LOAN was there to ensure no players had to leave !! I am in no doubt that the issues with sub prime loans and the financial impacts on the success of their business has to be taken in to consideration - but a £2m LOAN for a place on the board of one of the top 30 football clubs in England is a joke. Basically all they are foregoing for a place on our board is the interest they could have got on their money if they had invested it somewhere else - not bad eh.!

New investment is vital for NCFC to move forward and if they can''t/won''t give it, they need to move aside a let someone who is.

Lets not kid ourselves, if Roeder and Clark don''t get the funds and backing they deserve - they will go. Other clubs will see what they have achieved at Norwich and the calls will come in. Perhaps them leaving is the only thing that will make some realise the board are fundamentally the thing that is holding our club back.

Investors are out there, Derby have yet again proved this to be the case, yet we don''t get a sniff because of the entrenched views our board hold true. 

Still we can all look forward to the summer when we will see the money being spent can''t we...............

 

[/quote]

Good, clear-sighted summary of our situation [Y]. I`m sure i remember even the most ardent board-backing posters saying things along the lines of  "the time to judge the board will be when they have had the chance to back Roeder in January". I even remember one saying something about any sensible City fan would be "storming the ramparts" if they failed to. Now, yet again, it`s "wait till all the big deals happen in the summer"! Pure self-delusion.

[Big Down Under 0]

I also tend to agree that we have little or no money to spend. However if Roeder is unable to get the players he wants with the little money he has, then he is right not to pay over inflated Jan prices for average players. I do however feel disappointed in that we are having to resort to reserve team loans. I bet the board are rubbing their hands that Roeder & Clark have worked miracles and got us in to the league position we have, because if they hadn''t they would have been under significantly more pressure to get the players in that would keep us up - and our transfer budget (or lack of it)  would have become very transparent indeed. Yet now they will get the spin masters out in force over the next few weeks with season ticket renewal looming large, saying that the players we wanted were unavailable, to expensive in the january window, etc etc and give us the promise and hope of good signings in the summer. This may be true - but how many times over the past 4 / 5 seasons have we all looked forward to the transfer windows with hope that the board will finally change their colours and invest in the quality needed only to be let down and disappointed time and time again. This is my worry for the summer aswell. No doubt those on this forum who said "wait until the end of Jan before you start having a go" will now take in the spin from the club and look forward to the summer for all those fantastic signings we will make then. One thing we now know for sure is that the Turners aren''t prepared to invest significant amounts of cash - otherwise they would have done it by now. We have seen absolutely no improvement in our transfer fund since their involvement and money from the sales of players both in the summer and now seems to have gone to the same place as other transfer income in the past despite the fact their £2m LOAN was there to ensure no players had to leave !! I am in no doubt that the issues with sub prime loans and the financial impacts on the success of their business has to be taken in to consideration - but a £2m LOAN for a place on the board of one of the top 30 football clubs in England is a joke. Basically all they are foregoing for a place on our board is the interest they could have got on their money if they had invested it somewhere else - not bad eh.! New investment is vital for NCFC to move forward and if they can''t/won''t give it, they need to move aside a let someone who is. Lets not kid ourselves, if Roeder and Clark don''t get the funds and backing they deserve - they will go. Other clubs will see what they have achieved at Norwich and the calls will come in. Perhaps them leaving is the only thing that will make some realise the board are fundamentally the thing that is holding our club back. Investors are out there, Derby have yet again proved this to be the case, yet we don''t get a sniff because of the entrenched views our board hold true.  Still we can all look forward to the summer when we will see the money being spent can''t we...............   Judge, you start off by saying that Roeder is right not to pay inflated prices in the Jan window, then proceed to say that the spinmeisters will say that players were too expensive in the Jan window. Which is it? It seems players we wanted DID become unavailable, Ameobi was linked frequently with us, and he became unavailable after Allerdyce was sacked.  Obviously there was more to the Taylor saga than just 250k as lots of posters on here would have us believe, Coventry can''t seem to land him despite (allegedly) bidding the extra 250k that was definate to land him in some posters eyes.The new Derby investment comes on the back of 25m of local Derby investment. We don''t have these local investors in Norwich. Cullum isn''t interested, who else is there? You seem to suggest having an American investment team, focussed purely on using our club as a vehicle for making them profit, as a good thing. There are lots of Liverpool fans who would disagree with you on this, as there are Man U fans. Until we seem like a good bet for a quick profit, such as buying out a 32m debt for peanuts, or we get promoted, we won''t become a target for these sort of investors. Deal with it. We aren''t badly off enough to make a quick profit out of. Unless you want an investor who will sell off our ground and training facilities and make their profit that way?And you assume Roeder is under the impression that he would get a healthy transfer fund this Jan, and the board have taken it away. What are you basing that on? Roeder will have known the exact financial situation of the club, and the nature of the short term, medium term and long term transfer funds of the club, else he is an idiot. He doesn''t come across as an idiot to me.These reserve team loans, or exciting youngsters in another language, are a world better than signing a bunch of Andy Hughes. In the old days, these would have been perm signings from lower league teams. Since the Premiership the bigger clubs have squads worth of the talent horded away, this is the sitiuation, its out of our control. Its the modern game.I understand the frustration here. But look at the total environment the club is operating under, and watch the results. 10 games unbeaten, thanks to loan players and Roeder/Clark. Our first team is more than capable of keeping us up, and proving it as we consistently move away from the relegation zone. We now have more bodies, and they come well recommended from their club''s supporters, who are we to say they can''t compete for a first team place? Ched has, Bertrand has, lets give them time (else risk looking like another Smudger). Things aren''t great but they ARE looking up.