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writeronthestorm

Youngsters in on loan spells the end for our own young player's chances?

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I don''t know how anyone else feels about this, but I was hoping we''d get experienced players in on loan.  I''m not questioning Roeder''s judgement, but it seems to me like he rates other clubs'' 18-21 year olds more than our own.

It''s a shame for the youngsters in a sense, but perhaps they really aren''t good enough to be here (Jarvis bros, etc)?

Do you think they''ve had enough chances and should be let go? or do you think that would be a big mistake and they would return to haunt us?

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I think we''ve known for a fair while that our youngsters aren''t good enough. If they were going to be good they should be breaking in to the first team on merit at 18/19/20. And they should be putting the work in, both the Jarvis brothers, Martin, and Spillane fail on that count from all reports.Cave-Brown''s been unlucky with injuries, and hopefully he can go out on loan now because we have other back up for Otsemobor, but even there we haven''t seen anything suggest he''s going to be good.Roeder is a specialist at working with young players, Arsene wanted him to head up the one of the worlds best academies, and I think he knows what he''s doing in these cases.These two Reading kids come with very promising reviews, a lot more then any of our own players can claim. Do you honestly think our 18-21 year olds are better?The information coming out of Norwich for most of the transfer period is that Roeder wants to save transfer money for summer when he can really begin to build a squad. From that perspective, I think it''s right that we''re bringing in loans. I don''t see how anyone could argue against it.As for bringing in more experienced players on loan...well firstly their wages will be higher. Secondly, if a 27 year old is being let out on loan it suggests he isn''t even good enough to be back up, he hasn''t been playing, and he''s unfit. Something is seriously wrong if those are the players we''re turning to.A young player being let out on loan isn''t because he''s not good enough for back up, it''s because he needs as much first team football as possible to aid development. As for fitness, both these guys have been playing games on loan. Unlike an experienced player on loan from a premiership team, who will have had to have fallen right off the radar. these young guys may well be considered nearly premiership standard now.There are some exceptions to saying we couldn''t get a good more experienced older player on loan here, but I cant see any Huckerby''s floating around atm

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The present crop of home youngsters seem to be lacking, with the obvious exception of Spillane - some have "attitude" (Martin?), some have skill but lack commitment (Ryan Jarvis?), Renton has a serious injury, and Lathrope, Smart and others are too young and inexperienced.We have produced some excellent players, Bellamy for instance, but many of our graduates have finished in the lower divisions or non-league. It seems that most of the present crop are destined to this latter fate.I am not sure why this should be the case, because to "grow your own" talent is cheaper than buying in. (The alternative is to have a better scouting system - other clubs seem to spot young players playing in very local leagues.)In the present circumstances, with our young players seemingly unable to make the step up, GR has little option but to fill gaps with young loan players. He has a good reputation for developing young players. We can only hope that the Academy can spot a few more with potential.

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I think the signing of the two lads from Reading is a mojor disapointment. It undermines the youth players that we have and the players we have brought in are no better than what i believe we already have. There is no use in giving other clubs youth team first team football here as we gain nothing from it in terms of money. We need an Attacker!

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Our youngsters with a couple of exceptions just arent good enough.

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[quote user="judderman"]I think we''ve known for a fair while that our youngsters aren''t good enough. If they were going to be good they should be breaking in to the first team on merit at 18/19/20. And they should be putting the work in, both the Jarvis brothers, Martin, and Spillane fail on that count from all reports.
Cave-Brown''s been unlucky with injuries, and hopefully he can go out on loan now because we have other back up for Otsemobor, but even there we haven''t seen anything suggest he''s going to be good.

Roeder is a specialist at working with young players, Arsene wanted him to head up the one of the worlds best academies, and I think he knows what he''s doing in these cases.

These two Reading kids come with very promising reviews, a lot more then any of our own players can claim. Do you honestly think our 18-21 year olds are better?

The information coming out of Norwich for most of the transfer period is that Roeder wants to save transfer money for summer when he can really begin to build a squad. From that perspective, I think it''s right that we''re bringing in loans. I don''t see how anyone could argue against it.

As for bringing in more experienced players on loan...well firstly their wages will be higher. Secondly, if a 27 year old is being let out on loan it suggests he isn''t even good enough to be back up, he hasn''t been playing, and he''s unfit. Something is seriously wrong if those are the players we''re turning to.
A young player being let out on loan isn''t because he''s not good enough for back up, it''s because he needs as much first team football as possible to aid development. As for fitness, both these guys have been playing games on loan. Unlike an experienced player on loan from a premiership team, who will have had to have fallen right off the radar. these young guys may well be considered nearly premiership standard now.

There are some exceptions to saying we couldn''t get a good more experienced older player on loan here, but I cant see any Huckerby''s floating around atm
[/quote]

 

This is the most sensible post i''ve seen on here in blinking ages. I absolutely 100% agree. I''d rather have younger hot prospects here anyday. Roeder''s being clever, why pay near on 1m for a player now when you can get him half price in the summer... ridiculous. We''re hardly challenging for promotion, and i think we''re safe from the drop now. Mid table season, let the rebuilding begin in the summer... some will disagree no doubt... i think this could be an inspired move by Roeder.

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I''m afraid I have to question our entire youth set-up, we supposedly have an academy based just north of London. I know a teacher based in London who has recommended young players to Terry Harvey, the Academy manager there, on three separate occasions. Despite having long conversations with him and giving vague promises, nothing happened, and two of those players have been offered deals elsewhere. Unless we get a sugar Daddy we have to rely on our youth policy to compete, and I really believe that Norwich are paying people to do nothing!  Hopefully Roder will realise this and sort it out, and yes I have made this known to the club.

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[quote user="judderman"]
The information coming out of Norwich for most of the transfer period is that Roeder wants to save transfer money for summer when he can really begin to build a squad.


[/quote]

Now remind me again, where did I here that before?..............thats right........................every bloody year!.[:|]

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"I don''t see how anyone could argue against it."

Er yes we are not guaranteed survival being only 5 points still off the bottom 3 - a couple of defeats, injuries etc could put us right back in there again! So yes I''m ok with signing younsters (on loan) at the possible expense of our own, assuming there is an uplift in standard. But no this must be balanced with permanent signings of more experienced pro''s to ensure our continued push up this table and ultimate survival in this league for another year. To achieve this I believe at this point in time we are talking about ''blowing'' 2m on Taylor plus a stricker - a phased approach well worth taking IMO.  

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Yes clearly our young players aren''t ready in some cases they probably won''t be.  I think Spillane, Smart and possibly Martin have what it takes, but time will tell if they make it.  Lathorpe as done something to impress Roeder, so he should have a career here.  As for the Jarvis brothers, well I think they have had their chance and should move on.  Cave Brown is a maybe.

Right now though I think we are better off with the Reading duo and the Boro player, none of our players are ready.

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And your belief is more sound than those of Reading and Norwich City are they?  Are ''breakthrough'' group is rubbish and needs taking out en-masse.  Who cares about undermining any of the 18-20 year olds we have  - they are being paid to try hard, learn and develop, not arse around at half time trying to kick balls into the crowd.  Bring in youth and show ours the door.

 

[quote user="The Duke"]I think the signing of the two lads from Reading is a mojor disapointment. It undermines the youth players that we have and the players we have brought in are no better than what i believe we already have. There is no use in giving other clubs youth team first team football here as we gain nothing from it in terms of money. We need an Attacker![/quote]

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If this is the case then what is the point in wasting money on a youth set up? why don''t we just loan in other teams youth players so they can gain from the experience of playing in our team? we would save money that way on paying for all the facilities and coaching the lads have. No wonder our youth players never make it as every time one emerges with a half decent chance of becoming a solid pro people slate them and knock there confidence out. It hurts me to say this but look down the road at binner land there young players are given time in the team to mature and and get used to playing professional football. We demand an instant product rather than waiting for players to come of age. Crew have only managed to survive because they have probably the second best youth set up in the country!

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="judderman"]
The information coming out of Norwich for most of the transfer period is that Roeder wants to save transfer money for summer when he can really begin to build a squad.


[/quote]

Now remind me again, where did I here that before?..............thats right........................every bloody year!.[:|]

[/quote]

Remind me where I read you being a pessimistic misery guts before........that’s right........every bloody post! [:#]

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[quote user="The Duke"]If this is the case then what is the point in wasting money on a youth set up? why don''t we just loan in other teams youth players so they can gain from the experience of playing in our team? we would save money that way on paying for all the facilities and coaching the lads have. No wonder our youth players never make it as every time one emerges with a half decent chance of becoming a solid pro people slate them and knock there confidence out. It hurts me to say this but look down the road at binner land there young players are given time in the team to mature and and get used to playing professional football. We demand an instant product rather than waiting for players to come of age. Crew have only managed to survive because they have probably the second best youth set up in the country! [/quote]The simple fact is that playing reserve football is a cushy number for the academy boys who have managed to get pro-forms.   Roeder hit the nail on the head when he talked about Beckham and his colleagues when they were winning the FA Youth Cup, you had to drag those lads off the training ground.  Roeder feels that he wasn''t getting that level of commitment for our youth - so what''s he to do ?  Look elsewhere until he can get that level of commitment, that desire to succeed.  That''s not an academy problem, thats the responsibility of young lads who haven''t had to push themselves for a long time.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="judderman"]The information coming out of Norwich for most of the transfer period is that Roeder wants to save transfer money for summer when he can really begin to build a squad.

[/quote]

Now remind me again, where did I here that before?..............thats right........................every bloody year!.[:|]

[/quote]no, you haven''t heard that any previous years...why? because they haven''t said it until this year. We knew when we bought earnshaw and before that Ashton that we were spending our lot, and we knew we didnt have much going last year.Prove me wrong if you can.

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[quote user="DC Harry Batt"]

"I don''t see how anyone could argue against it."

Er yes we are not guaranteed survival being only 5 points still off the bottom 3 - a couple of defeats, injuries etc could put us right back in there again! So yes I''m ok with signing younsters (on loan) at the possible expense of our own, assuming there is an uplift in standard. But no this must be balanced with permanent signings of more experienced pro''s to ensure our continued push up this table and ultimate survival in this league for another year. To achieve this I believe at this point in time we are talking about ''blowing'' 2m on Taylor plus a stricker - a phased approach well worth taking IMO.  

[/quote]I think Roeder''s confident that with a bit of depth we can farily comfortably survive in mid table, and I also think he is more confident of pushing this club forward with signings in the summer rather than now. I agree with him....I see your case, it''s a definite gamble and time will tell if it comes off or not, but I would agree with what he''s doing if this is the case, and hopefully I won''t be proven wrong.

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[quote user="goofy dwaff"]

Do you think they''ve had enough chances and should be let go? or do you think that would be a big mistake and they would return to haunt us?

[/quote]

If we let them go I doubt they would return to haunt us. I don''t think this has happened since the days of Dion Dublin and John Fashanu.

I heard all this before when Worthy let Hayes and Crowe go. Lets face it, for all the shouting at the time he was proved right, it''s a long time since we have released a player good enough to play at this level.

I''d definitely keep Chris Martin and I believe he will come good next season. For whatever reason he never caught up this season but he should definitely be given next season to put it right. Spillane has a good attitude to go with his ability and some of the younger ones especially Bally Smart seem to have a future. But I honestly think it''s time to wave goodbye to some of the others.

 

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I must admit that I think Roeder probably has it right on this one.

I was thinking of Akinbiyi and Cureton as the ones we let go for peanuts back in the day...

It''s a pity that we''re relying on other team''s youngsters, but if it''s a quick fix to get us through this season and it works then fair enough

 

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