Locked in a debtors prison.

[ca 1]

[quote user="chicken"]

I went to read the article and got this:

"Rivals.net

We are currently performing essential technical updates to Rivals.net and the site will be available again shortly. We apologise to our users for any incovenience."

Has Evans grip on the club got this far already?!!!
[/quote]

 

This is the link for their new rivals page

http://ipswichtown.rivals.net/teams/pgclubhome.aspx?clubid=41

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Good thread Blacko. The really interesting aspect of this thread to me is the failure of an appearance by posters such as Mr. Carrow or Fat Prophet who, ironically, have much in common with the the Ipswich poster, Chabal. When confronted with such an article Chabal is still obviously in denial about the true state of his club. On our side there are those who would like to move us in that direction by insisting THEIR goals be achieved by the spending of SOMEONE ELSE"S money because, as with all true liberals,  they believe they have greater insight on how to spend that money than those that actually have the responsibility and right to do so.

By the way, Chabal, if you find it difficult to believe this article from a concerned Ipswich source, see if you can put it together by reading the article previously put out by Ipswich Town FC stating categorically how they conducted searches though consultants for investors for well over a year both inside and outside of the country. The only offer on the table was from the Marcus Evans Group. Now read again the article highlighted by blacko that refers to the Marcus Evans Group as an opportunistic vulture that had been circling over the heads of a number of clubs looking for the right moment to strike. It is my fervent wish that NCFC is not faced with the need to follow such a path at any point in the future.  

 

[/quote]

Simply pointing out abject failure in others is the weakest defense of your own failures. Of course i am glad our board haven`t gone down the road of ipswich or Leeds but there is an enormous difference between spunking £7.5m on an Italian keeper who can`t speak English and some dodgy old has-been and refusing to provide an extra £300k to secure a player who helped spark our revival and wants to join.

By the way there are other ways of being reckless than throwing money at players. £2.5m of short-term debt to pay for land and the infill has to be repayed by the end of this year. If there is no land deal to be done in these economically turbulent times you may see just how reckless our board have really been. Hope you`re ready to dig deep......

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

And, in case anybody else hasn''t seen it, here''s the realist''s article in full, copied and pasted:

Locked in Debtors Prison

Ever since Town went collectively insane after one mind-blowing year in the prem, the club has been trapped inside a prison of its own making. We¿ve been literally suffocating under an unsustainable mountain of debt. A debt so vast, it not only stripped us of a generation of good players. It ultimately stripped the club of its will to live.

As 2007 ground on, the club was at such a low ebb that we were no longer even bothering to pay the interest - let alone repay the capital. And the ''for sale'' sign that had been hoisted over Portman Road years previously was being frantically waved with ever increasing vigour.

So deep was the hole that Town had dug themselves into that there appeared no escape. Apart from the one pointed out to the club by an opportunist vulture that had been circling any number of wannabee football clubs - the Marcus Evans Group. The solution appeared so odd, so illogical, that seemed scarcely credible and contrary to the best interests of the club. Yet the directors apparently agreed it was a sensible way out.

Well we think they did - not many of them have been too vocal in public - apart of course from Mr Sheepshanks. So, strangely, the very people whose solemn duty it was to act in the club''s best interests seemed to champion the Marcus Evans Group approach which seemed so clearly to be against the club''s best interests. When the details of the offer were made public - it seemed little more than scandalous. In effect Town swapped an £8million debt for a £32 million debt - and sold their soul at the same time. And nobody seemed remotely concerned.

Even now, a month since Town sold out to an invisible man, I still can''t understand how or why it happened. The facts bear repeating one more time. Town''s suffocating £32million debt had been written down to just £8million. Whilst that might be a lot of money to you and I - it is reasonably small beer to a club that could in theory get promoted to the Premier League with just a bit of fine tuning.

Let''s look at £8million in close up. One of Town''s board could use £8million in firelighters - let alone use it to prop up a football club he was duty-bound to look after. Another, Holly Bellingham was in the process of selling a majority share in her company for £55million. So £8million was certainly a figure she could have helped raise. Yet she exited stage left from Town''s board without even a whimper.

£8million is even a figure that could have been easily raised by Town fans. If we accept that there are at least 24,000 regular fans... that is only a £333 contribution from each and every one of us to wipe out Town''s debt once and for all. Not in exchange for meaningless shares to fund Finidi George''s pay off - but a unique chance to wipe Town''s slate clean and share in something good and tangible that would guarantee a fresh start on a level playing field.

Admittedly, in the past, when Sheepshanks has gone cap in hand to supporters for meaningless share issues to keep Town afloat, he''s been largely (and very sensibly) ignored. But those risible share issues were just throwing money into a bottomless pit of Sheepshanks'' creation in exchange for utterly worthless shares. This time it could have been oh so different - and structured not as shares but as membership.

But it wasn''t - and our club has been handed over as an investment vehicle to a faceless investment arm of an over-hyped junket company of debateable worth fronted by an invisible man without so much as a whimper. The sums of money involved are relatively tiny - even the reputed £12million put into the club to stabilise is spin. Not one penny can be spent without a nod from three faceless suits. I say it again - the club was sold under very, very dubious circumstances with very few if any alternatives being aired for a mere £8million.

So now we face up to an unknown future as an ''investment'' of someone who refuses to be seen, whilst on the face of it being run by an utter incompetent who seemingly cannot bear not to be seen. In an industry where brash American soccer enthusiasts, alleged arms dealers, third world despots and assorted riff-raff from eastern Europe are queuing up to be lavish their ill-gotten gains on third rate footballers this is strange indeed.

As the AGM draws near I live in hope that one or two voices might be raised about the very strange circumstances Town now find themselves reduced to. Although the hype would have you believe our £32 million debt has vanished and the club is ''in the money'', the exact opposite is very much the case. We still owe £32million - the only difference is that it is not to a financial institution with tangible assets and known business practices. Hardly a big step forward.

And we still don''t have any money. Last year, we were being run so recklessly that we managed to rack up another £2million of debt whist not paying interest on our debts. That now has to change - which means tightening the purse strings. The only tangible difference I can see from the restructure is that 3 suits will seek approval from elsewhere if Town want to buy paper clips in future, let alone an overpriced midfield trundler from Plymouth Argyle.

We''re still very much locked in a debtor''s prison of our own making. Only this time we threw away the key.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Good thread Blacko. The really interesting aspect of this thread to me is the failure of an appearance by posters such as Mr. Carrow or Fat Prophet who, ironically, have much in common with the the Ipswich poster, Chabal. When confronted with such an article Chabal is still obviously in denial about the true state of his club. On our side there are those who would like to move us in that direction by insisting THEIR goals be achieved by the spending of SOMEONE ELSE"S money because, as with all true liberals,  they believe they have greater insight on how to spend that money than those that actually have the responsibility and right to do so.

By the way, Chabal, if you find it difficult to believe this article from a concerned Ipswich source, see if you can put it together by reading the article previously put out by Ipswich Town FC stating categorically how they conducted searches though consultants for investors for well over a year both inside and outside of the country. The only offer on the table was from the Marcus Evans Group. Now read again the article highlighted by blacko that refers to the Marcus Evans Group as an opportunistic vulture that had been circling over the heads of a number of clubs looking for the right moment to strike. It is my fervent wish that NCFC is not faced with the need to follow such a path at any point in the future.  

 

[/quote]

Simply pointing out abject failure in others is the weakest defense of your own failures. Of course i am glad our board haven`t gone down the road of ipswich or Leeds but there is an enormous difference between spunking £7.5m on an Italian keeper who can`t speak English and some dodgy old has-been and refusing to provide an extra £300k to secure a player who helped spark our revival and wants to join.

By the way there are other ways of being reckless than throwing money at players. £2.5m of short-term debt to pay for land and the infill has to be repayed by the end of this year. If there is no land deal to be done in these economically turbulent times you may see just how reckless our board have really been. Hope you`re ready to dig deep......

[/quote]

Mr. Carrow, I personally think it''s shortsighted for us Norwich supporters to look at the action of our own club and simplistically ( and critically ) say "we are refusing to pay an extra 300 K to secure a player." None of us REALLY know what is in play between Birmingham and other clubs who may be interested in Taylor ( at some point early on there were reports that QPR and Birmingham had agreed a fee of 1,250,000 ). Nor do we know exactly what went on in the conversations between Norwich and Martin Taylor. On the other hand, what we do know with a reasonable degree of confidence is that an extra 300 K equates to the season long revenue stream of approximately 1000 supporters ( a mix of regular, seniors and young folks ). Some posters want to trivialize what that income from those supporters represent. I don''t want to trivialize the income of those 1000 supporters, do you? I would rather trust the club to execute the plan they have in place because, in the final analysis, they are responsible for the outcome.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[/quote]Mandaric and Madejski bankrolled the clubs with their personal fortune, they didn''t run the clubs in a particularly clever way Arthur. Sheepshanks drove the scummers into the ground, to a point that they had to sell to someone. They were losing 3m to 4m each year. Evans owns them now, they owe him 32m and he controls the board. He is not interested in football, and won''t even show his face. He will be the death of them, he will rip the club apart to make his money. And all as a result of their ''ambition''.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

Madejski has been chairman of Reading since 1990, by my counting it has taken them 15 years to get to where they are.  I think that along the way they have made slow and steady advances forward, I wouldn''t exactly say that they have been bank rolled.

[Chabal 0]

[quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[/quote]

Mandaric and Madejski bankrolled the clubs with their personal fortune, they didn''t run the clubs in a particularly clever way Arthur. Sheepshanks drove the scummers into the ground, to a point that they had to sell to someone. They were losing 3m to 4m each year. Evans owns them now, they owe him 32m and he controls the board. He is not interested in football, and won''t even show his face. He will be the death of them, he will rip the club apart to make his money. And all as a result of their ''ambition''.
[/quote]

 

Care to explain HOW he will ''rip the club apart''. I''d be fascinated to know!

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

Because one day Chabal he will call his debt in.  You are already paying him considerable interest and still haven''t spent any real money.  Wheres the 12m you allegedly had.

Unless you get promoted to the premier league where Evans can earn real money he will ditch you.  The bloke is a business man who wants to make money from the club, he has openly stated that.  How long will he persevere with a loss making club if you fail to reach the promised land.  Not too long I would imagine, and he certainly wont bank roll you with no chance of a payout.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[/quote]

Where does it state anywhere in this thread that we are a top run club.

[Big Down Under 0]

Jimmy, having money is no guarantee of instant success. Reading have done a lot of things right, irrespective of money, and they aren''t the most obvious case of a bankrolled club, but Madesjki has enabled them to purchase above their weight and when they got promoted, they were one of the richest clubs in the league.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]Madejski has been chairman of Reading since 1990, by my counting it has taken them 15 years to get to where they are.  I think that along the way they have made slow and steady advances forward, I wouldn''t exactly say that they have been bank rolled.[/quote]

So whats the excuse of our Board? Like i said the whole set up at Reading seems to be better than ours at the minute. Our beloved chef and Co have had a good few years to steadily improve things but we are currently in a worse state than when she came. I''m not sure where Reading were when Madejski arrived but I''d quess they''ve taken over us in the football stakes.

[Chabal 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

Because one day Chabal he will call his debt in.  You are already paying him considerable interest and still haven''t spent any real money.  Wheres the 12m you allegedly had.

Unless you get promoted to the premier league where Evans can earn real money he will ditch you.  The bloke is a business man who wants to make money from the club, he has openly stated that.  How long will he persevere with a loss making club if you fail to reach the promised land.  Not too long I would imagine, and he certainly wont bank roll you with no chance of a payout.

[/quote]

 

He owns the club - if he calls the debt in he effectively bankrupts a business he paid £14m for! If we don''t go up it would still make more business sense for him to sell us and the debt to another investor than to somehow sell all our assets individually.

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

[quote user="jimmy500"]Madejski has been chairman of Reading since 1990, by my counting it has taken them 15 years to get to where they are.  I think that along the way they have made slow and steady advances forward, I wouldn''t exactly say that they have been bank rolled.[/quote]

So whats the excuse of our Board? Like i said the whole set up at Reading seems to be better than ours at the minute. Our beloved chef and Co have had a good few years to steadily improve things but we are currently in a worse state than when she came. I''m not sure where Reading were when Madejski arrived but I''d quess they''ve taken over us in the football stakes.

[/quote]I don''t agree Arthur. We had lower debt levels when she joined but the bank was closing down our credit line and we nearly lost the club. We were higher up in the leagues but were dropping like a stone. Things haven''t been great recently but we are financially secure, we now have a great manager on board, and things are looking up.

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[/quote]

Mandaric and Madejski bankrolled the clubs with their personal fortune, they didn''t run the clubs in a particularly clever way Arthur. Sheepshanks drove the scummers into the ground, to a point that they had to sell to someone. They were losing 3m to 4m each year. Evans owns them now, they owe him 32m and he controls the board. He is not interested in football, and won''t even show his face. He will be the death of them, he will rip the club apart to make his money. And all as a result of their ''ambition''.
[/quote]

I agree with Chabal on this point.

Exactly ''how'' (and ''Why'' come to that) will he ...''rip the club apart''. Only way he could do that is by closing the business down and selling the land. One tiny problem with that though is that the realisable asset is NOT owned by the club / Evans but by the local  Council. There is very little Evans can do about it if Town fail to get promotion. He will have to accept the loss and sell up.  I am no fan of Evans and the like at all but it does us no favours whatsoever if we continually deride EVERYTHING about the Evans takeover whilst pretending that we are so ...''whiter than white'' and ....''financially secure'' - NCFC may be many things but ''financially secure'' we most certainly ain''t! ND has hived off much of the profits from the summer transfer activity to help cushion the £7M loss we would otherwise have faced.  

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="Big Down Under"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="jimmy500"][quote user="Sherlock Holmes"][quote user="jimmy500"]

Had conversations with a couple of binners over the last few days and they both said the same thing, wonder who we are gonna spend our millions on.  How stupid are these people, and neither would have it any other way.

I am now starting to believe that Marcus Evans is in fact a Norwich fan and ruining ITFC for our viewing enjoyment.

[/quote]

In which case, Delia must surely be an Ipswich fan!!

[/quote]

She is, just ask Whittle....

[/quote]

Yep and she can cook an Egg,but i fail to see how Evans running Ipswich makes us out to be a top run club! Mandaric got Portsmouth where they are today and I''m pretty sure Madejski had a big say in Reading,but hey keep you scraping that barrel old mucker.

[/quote]

Mandaric and Madejski bankrolled the clubs with their personal fortune, they didn''t run the clubs in a particularly clever way Arthur. Sheepshanks drove the scummers into the ground, to a point that they had to sell to someone. They were losing 3m to 4m each year. Evans owns them now, they owe him 32m and he controls the board. He is not interested in football, and won''t even show his face. He will be the death of them, he will rip the club apart to make his money. And all as a result of their ''ambition''.
[/quote]

I agree with Chabal on this point.

Exactly ''how'' (and ''Why'' come to that) will he ...''rip the club apart''. Only way he could do that is by closing the business down and selling the land. One tiny problem with that though is that the realisable asset is NOT owned by the club / Evans but by the local  Council. There is very little Evans can do about it if Town fail to get promotion. He will have to accept the loss and sell up.  I am no fan of Evans and the like at all but it does us no favours whatsoever if we continually deride EVERYTHING about the Evans takeover whilst pretending that we are so ...''whiter than white'' and ....''financially secure'' - NCFC may be many things but ''financially secure'' we most certainly ain''t! ND has hived off much of the profits from the summer transfer activity to help cushion the £7M loss we would otherwise have faced.  

 

[/quote]

not strictly true..as Evans owns the debt he no sets the interest payments to whatever he wants..  a 32 million debt with 100% interest added on? Ipswich will still have to pay it even if they wind up.. its a private debt and the money WILL be paid to evans regardless if Ipswich town Exists or not.. Liquidators will see to that.. he will make money regardless what happens on the pitch

jas :)

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

There is also the small matter of the hotel and conferincing facility that Ipswich Town have planning permission for on the old ipswich cattle market site.  What is Evans core business.  My guess is that this will be financed by the club and not Evans personally.  He doesn''t necessarily need to get his 32m in cash does he.  But I bet he does get his moneys worth from the 14m takeover.

Like I said in Chabals shoes I would be confident and positive.  In my shoes I am bitter and twisted.  Perhaps neither of us are right as we are both representing complete opposite sides of the argument.

Final point, not once during this thread have I (or anyone else I think) claimed that NCFC is whiter than white and that our affairs are in perfect order.  They are not and we know it....

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

There is also the small matter of the hotel and conferincing facility that Ipswich Town have planning permission for on the old ipswich cattle market site.  What is Evans core business.  My guess is that this will be financed by the club and not Evans personally.  He doesn''t necessarily need to get his 32m in cash does he.  But I bet he does get his moneys worth from the 14m takeover.

Like I said in Chabals shoes I would be confident and positive.  In my shoes I am bitter and twisted.  Perhaps neither of us are right as we are both representing complete opposite sides of the argument.

Final point, not once during this thread have I (or anyone else I think) claimed that NCFC is whiter than white and that our affairs are in perfect order.  They are not and we know it....

[/quote]

Sorry Jimmy - no-one may have actually used the words ..''whiter than white'' (that was my phrase) but it sure as hell feels like that as City fans line up to take shots at Ipswich. I have repeatedly said on this subject that we need to be in a much better position both on and off the pitch before we have the right to make those sort of claims.

By the way, Big Down Under did say.... ''we are financially secure''.  I beg to differ. Lets see what the accounts look like for 07/08 shall we when there will be NIL parachute payment revenue, an £18M debt (oh, silly me, we call it a ''mortgage'' don''t we!) and c£2.5M in other loan repayments that must be met. How have we traditionally subsidised our losses? By selling of course. Reeves, Watson, Bruce, Gordon, Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy, Green,Ashton, Ethu and finally Ernie. I say ''finally'' because there certainly ain''t a mega million sale in summer 2008 coming up is there. There''s no one left!! THEN the financial storm really will hit home.   

[Andy Larkin 15]

Can anyone in plain language explain simply what is in this deal for Marcus Evans. I''m not looking for any Binner bile, just some simple business based enlightenment.

I can see how getting to the Premiership makes it potentially good business for him, but by the same token if they continue languishing in the Championship it doesn''t seem such a bright idea.

And if he owns the debts, how does he get his money back? What is there to sell that recoups his money? Not the ground for instance… and with one or two exceptions, the playing staff certainly ain''t worth that!

Now the man obviously knows how to make some money (yes I know some of it is in the Corporate Hospitality for the Arms Industry, but you still have to be quite an operator to turn it into the business he has today).

So, please, someone explain how they think this deal works for him in simple to understand language.

Ta

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="jimmy500"]

There is also the small matter of the hotel and conferincing facility that Ipswich Town have planning permission for on the old ipswich cattle market site.  What is Evans core business.  My guess is that this will be financed by the club and not Evans personally.  He doesn''t necessarily need to get his 32m in cash does he.  But I bet he does get his moneys worth from the 14m takeover.

Like I said in Chabals shoes I would be confident and positive.  In my shoes I am bitter and twisted.  Perhaps neither of us are right as we are both representing complete opposite sides of the argument.

Final point, not once during this thread have I (or anyone else I think) claimed that NCFC is whiter than white and that our affairs are in perfect order.  They are not and we know it....

[/quote]

Sorry Jimmy - no-one may have actually used the words ..''whiter than white'' (that was my phrase) but it sure as hell feels like that as City fans line up to take shots at Ipswich. I have repeatedly said on this subject that we need to be in a much better position both on and off the pitch before we have the right to make those sort of claims.

By the way, Big Down Under did say.... ''we are financially secure''.  I beg to differ. Lets see what the accounts look like for 07/08 shall we when there will be NIL parachute payment revenue, an £18M debt (oh, silly me, we call it a ''mortgage'' don''t we!) and c£2.5M in other loan repayments that must be met. How have we traditionally subsidised our losses? By selling of course. Reeves, Watson, Bruce, Gordon, Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy, Green,Ashton, Ethu and finally Ernie. I say ''finally'' because there certainly ain''t a mega million sale in summer 2008 coming up is there. There''s no one left!! THEN the financial storm really will hit home.   

[/quote]

Thats as maybe but this isn''t a thread about the financial situation of Norwich City is it.  And of course we are going to take shots at Ipswich.  I speak for myself (maybe others) when I say that if Evans backs Ipswich to the hilt and supports them as Chabal hopes they will then I am slightly jealous, if he doesn''t and does ruin them as I hope then I am going to LMAO and enjoy doing it.

As I said, me and Chabal are the worst people to be debating this as we represent the extremes of the argument.  I hope they fail, he doesn''t.  There is, and can be no sensible middle ground debate about the pro''s and con''s because of who we are and who we support.

Maybe WE8WBA will give us the benefit of his irritating outsider perspective.

[Big Down Under 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"][quote user="jimmy500"]

There is also the small matter of the hotel and conferincing facility that Ipswich Town have planning permission for on the old ipswich cattle market site.  What is Evans core business.  My guess is that this will be financed by the club and not Evans personally.  He doesn''t necessarily need to get his 32m in cash does he.  But I bet he does get his moneys worth from the 14m takeover.

Like I said in Chabals shoes I would be confident and positive.  In my shoes I am bitter and twisted.  Perhaps neither of us are right as we are both representing complete opposite sides of the argument.

Final point, not once during this thread have I (or anyone else I think) claimed that NCFC is whiter than white and that our affairs are in perfect order.  They are not and we know it....

[/quote]

Sorry Jimmy - no-one may have actually used the words ..''whiter than white'' (that was my phrase) but it sure as hell feels like that as City fans line up to take shots at Ipswich. I have repeatedly said on this subject that we need to be in a much better position both on and off the pitch before we have the right to make those sort of claims.

By the way, Big Down Under did say.... ''we are financially secure''.  I beg to differ. Lets see what the accounts look like for 07/08 shall we when there will be NIL parachute payment revenue, an £18M debt (oh, silly me, we call it a ''mortgage'' don''t we!) and c£2.5M in other loan repayments that must be met. How have we traditionally subsidised our losses? By selling of course. Reeves, Watson, Bruce, Gordon, Sutton, Eadie, Bellamy, Green,Ashton, Ethu and finally Ernie. I say ''finally'' because there certainly ain''t a mega million sale in summer 2008 coming up is there. There''s no one left!! THEN the financial storm really will hit home.   

[/quote]Its fun taking shots at Ipswich. But I would be critical of this deal whatever the club.When I say we are financially secure, I mean that we have the ability to pay off our loans. This is obviously having an adverse affect on our transfer budget, but we aren''t about to enter administration. Ipswich had no chance in hell of paying off their loan, were losing 3 to 4m each year (last year the Bent money cushioned this loss) hence their creditors giving up and selling their loan to Evans for whatever they could get. Evans will make more money if the club reach the Prem, but he will have a plan to make his money back if they don''t, and that could be catastrophic for Ipswich.Obviously the size of our loan is not a good thing, and the repayments are a severe brake on our ability to buy players, but thats life for clubs in the current environment (unless they have a sugar daddy). There was an interesting thread started by Mr Carrow about how the loan affects our transfer kitty, from a week or two back, if you can find it it makes an interesting read.

[gsr600 0]

the problem with a thread of this type is that its just swings and rondabouts we can say how bad it is for the scum down the road and how we wouldnt want a deal like that and i agree and have a few colleagues that are seriously concerned about the future of their club but again im concerned about the future of our club, simple fact is marcus evans has bought the club and theres not a damn thing chabal and the rest of the scum fans can do about now, if he does ruin the club so be it, in my opinion this will be a shame as the games against the scum are the highlight to any season, the one point many people are failing to realise is that at least ipswich have tried to do something about there club albeit it may have doomed them, personally i am glad we havent had a similar take over with carrow road, but what i do fail to understand is that if as chabal says there were more offers on the table then why agree a package that could spell there doom

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

Thats as maybe but this isn''t a thread about the financial situation of Norwich City is it.  And of course we are going to take shots at Ipswich.  I speak for myself (maybe others) when I say that if Evans backs Ipswich to the hilt and supports them as Chabal hopes they will then I am slightly jealous, if he doesn''t and does ruin them as I hope then I am going to LMAO and enjoy doing it.

As I said, me and Chabal are the worst people to be debating this as we represent the extremes of the argument.  I hope they fail, he doesn''t.  There is, and can be no sensible middle ground debate about the pro''s and con''s because of who we are and who we support.

Maybe WE8WBA will give us the benefit of his irritating outsider perspective.

[/quote]

Totally agree with this post Jimmy500. And you have to question why posters would use this thread to highlight what they believe to be wrong at our club. I know sometimes any old stick will do but using ''that lot'' is surely a step too far. There is not one part of me that would prefer marcus Evans to be at our club rather than theirs.

 

 

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

And here is a bit more from the same poster (Blue Review) on the s**m rival''s website:

''''Nobody is disagreeing Marcus Evans got himself a good each way bet with his £8million. What I was trying to suggest is that we had a clear opportunity to clear a £32million debt for £8million (thats half a Darren Bent in today''s football currency) - but chose instead to allow the club to slip into offshore ownership with a £32million debt . I suggest Evans will also be wanting his mythical £12million back. - so the debt is actually £44 million and rising...and I call it mythical because it is fantasy... he could equally have put in £100million as its all under his control and very little ot it will be going anywhere, other than to stabilise the club whilst cost-cutting measures and common sense are applied.

As Town were in the play off position at the time of the fire sale I''d suggest very little money is actually needed to achieve promotion... and I suspect very little is the amount we''ll see.

The main issue I have with the takeover is that no other option appears to have been explored - and the misleading ''spin'' put forward to shareholders prior to the takeover was mouthed by somebody who stood to gain from the takeover. It was little short of disgraceful that the board railroaded this deal through without clearly examining how £8million could be raised by other means which would have paid off the debt entirely.

To anybody with an objective mind, the fact that the virtues of this deal were put forward by somebody who would in effect be an employee of the new regime was also more than a tad questionable. The fact that Sheepshanks who effectively ruined this club and Bowden who bears a great deal of responsibility for running the club somewhat recklessly post-admin are both staying on as poodles of the new regime is also plainly questionable.

It may be unpalatable to some to face up to the realities of a fire sale pushed through by people who at best can be accused of being unimaginative or short sighted - but hey its a free country...and some people care ''''

Come on then Chabal and clblue, what are your thoughts then his latest post and the points that I''ve highlighted?