Is the Premiership really that great?

[Stone 0]

As a supporter is the premiership really where we want to be?

We get promoted - scrap away with the other promoted teams and usual suspects to finish 4th from bottom with the aim of ''establishing ourselves'' which basically means being delighted with a mid-table finish every season, a pretty dull existence.  Of course from the club''s point of view it''s securing its financial future, maybe the thought is that by at least establishing a place in the premiership it appears more attractive to any investor who might be able to plough in millions upon millions and buy some success? As an away fan the premier league grounds are often devoid of any real atmosphere generated by the home fans (so I found at Spurs, Blackburn, Liverpool, Chelsea and Fulham) and our own stands at Carrow road become infiltrated with gloryhunters without the backbone to support thier local team.

The standard of football in the championship is obviously far inferior to that of the premiership, but as a league it''s unpredictability must render it exciting? Everyone beats everyone, the teams you expect to see challenging for promotion end up scrapping for survival and vice versa. You don''t need a HUGE amount of cash to achieve success in this league and a shrewd manager can achieve it on a shoestring. The fans who attend matches aren''t there to be wowed by the oppostion but to support THEIR team. The variation in teams and grounds should be seen as a good thing, from Coventry''s Ricoh to Colchester''s Layer Road. I''ve had some awesome trips to smaller grounds where the facilities aren''t so great! The Play-offs keep the league alive and with the incentive of a Wembley final generates real excitement.  

What does anyone else think?

 

 

 

[Graham Humphrey 13]

A relegation battle in the Premiership is 100 times better than a relegation battle in the Championship.

[SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0]

I completely see where you are coming from, I would hate to be like a Reading fan right now (no offence if any read here), knowing the only aim is survival, they dont want to attempt to have a run at the FA Cup, misery guts Coppell even said last year they did not want to qualify for the UEFA Cup and if they did he would play their reserves in that.  Where is the excitement in that!

The Championship rivals the Premiership for excitement and drama, maybe even beating it.  The unpredictability is certainly a main factor.

Having said all that, a promotion season is the best feeling and we all have got to at least aim at the Premiership.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]A relegation battle in the Premiership is 100 times better than a relegation battle in the Championship.[/quote]exactly, the two most exciting seasons in recent years were the play-off season and the promotion season.  The Premiership was exciting at the end, the rest of the last 10 years have been crap.

[Andy Larkin 15]

The year we won promotion I was chastised by my mates for saying we should tell the Premier League we will take their money but stay in the Fizzy League ta very much.

Sort of assumed that with our 20+mill we would get promoted year on year and would do the same thing everytime!

Our season in the PL was a major disappointment to me save the mini resurgence, beating Man U and drawing 4-4 with Boro. Cr*p support from visiting fans and also poor atmospheres in grounds when I went away.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]A relegation battle in the Premiership is 100 times better than a relegation battle in the Championship.[/quote]

 

but is it more exciting than the playoffs?

 

 The top flight died the day sky signed that first contract back in 1992...

jas :)

[YankeeCanary 0]

Stone, allow me to answer you by writing to you about my golf game. I''m an average hacker that normally shoots around 90. In mid season when my form is good ( by my standards ) I shoot quite a number of rounds from the mid to high 80''s. Last season, for the first time in my life I broke the 80 barrier and shot a 79.

Now, what is the point and the relevance of my running on with all this drivel about golf? It''s this. I realise what I am capable of in the world of golf and what the high probability is that I will score on any given day. I also know as I set off to the golf course that I will shoot a very similar score to my regular playing partners. We always have a little competition going and I particularly enjoy it when I come out on top. The reason for my enjoyment goes far beyond whether I am victorious on any given day. It''s sitting on the deck polishing my clubs up the night before the match. It''s the well-travelled 20 minute drive along the country road to the golf course filled with hope for the upcoming round. It''s the camaraderie and story telling interchanges with my friends. It''s the laughter and commiserating with each other after the round at the disasters and missed opportunities. I love all of these things and, getting back to your example Stone, that is my equivalent to life in the Championship.

However, here is the bottom line Stone. I ''ve still got my scorecard sitting by my computer with my 79 on it. I can still remember every shot I played that day. I live in hope that another day of glory will come my way knowing full well, all things being equal, that I won''t ever be able to sustain it or even compete with those masterful scratch golfers who are always on the green in regulation. This I believe is the dream of every golfer. They want their day in the sun despite the odds that seem insurmountable. So too does the fan of every football club. 

[Stone 0]

I never suggested we shouldn''t try and win promotion, of course we should aim to be as successful as possible - but that''s my point, at least you have the opportunity to do that in this league (this season isn''t a great example obviously!). I just don''t think being in the Premiership is as great as everyone seems to make out. I did forget to mention the amount of crap kick off times too, sometimes there are only 1 or 2 games on at 3pm Saturday and as a season ticket holder you can''t be doing with all that early Saturday, late Saturday and Sunday cr*p!

[YankeeCanary 0]

Stone, I don''t think responders are saying you did suggest we shouldn''t try and win promotion. You asked a question:

"As a supporter is the premiership really where we want to be?"

and then asked:

"What does anyone else think?"

And we told you. If you don''t want to know then better not to ask.

[Robert N. LiM 4,342]

One Reading fan on the Guardian Sportblog said that he was sort of looking forward to them getting relegated because it was much more interesting in the Championship. I can''t think of a more depressing indictment of the Premier League.

The season we won the Championship was one of my favourite years of supporting City. I emigrated at the end of it and don''t regret for a second missing the Great Premiership Adventure (TM).

As someone said, Sky have killed the Premier League for real fans of clubs like Norwich. Sky have changed football from sport to entertainment. Supporting Man Utd by watching them on Sky is like being a fan of EastEnders.

Unfortunately, the mindless fools who only watch it on TV haven''t noticed yet that the Premier League is boring and predictable. The sooner the big four go and join a made-for-TV European super league, leaving the Premier League to become a football competition again, the better.

[Cheerio 0]

I dont like the Prem. I dont like the style of football, the miserable crowds, the pretentious characters. I''d happily stay in the Chumps league..... just as well eh?

[we8wba 0]

commenting on my team in this instance i would prefer to be their than in this league but only if we did a wigan and reading

all honesty 80% teams go up will come back down for sure, and i would just be embarrassed to watch my team up there

we would just do a derby and flunk!

i prefer being a reletively big fish in small pond than small fish in big pond

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"]I dont like the Prem. I dont like the style of football, the miserable crowds, the pretentious characters.

I''d happily stay in the Chumps league..... just as well eh?
[/quote]

I assume you were devastated when we won promotion in 2004 then.

[stagjones 0]

well, im a member at Spurs and sit in the South Stand near the away fans and its always noisy there... got to admit the Paxton (opposite) and the main stand are both very very quiet though.

And in answer to the original poster - I agree, the premiership ISNT that great. We all know whos coming first or second. And third or fourth. And generally who''s going down. And it aint gonna change unless more Russian billionarires appear and buy clubs as their personal playthings a''la Chelsea... and personally id rather not see that, would be the death of football if all our clubs end up owned by foreign businessmen and conglomerates.

While on the subject of annoying premiership traits I aint too happy about all these reserve teams getting put out in the FA Cup.... but thats also another thread / story.....

[The Voice of the Thorpe Area 0]

You have to feel a bit sorry for the fans of the Boros, Pompeys, Boltons, Fulhams, Villas...in fact every side except the ''big 4'', the best all these sides can ever hope for is 5th place.

The sooner those 4 bugger off and join the ''Euro League'' or whatever the rumour was, the better for English football.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="we8wba"]

all honesty 80% teams go up will come back down for sure[/quote]

Where the heck did you get 80% from? I think the number of teams that stay up after winning promotion is actually closer to 50%.

[Sit Down, Shut Up! 0]

Don''t be stupid! There is a reason why there are 20 teams above us in the Premiership and I for one want to be back up there! We would be paying to see better football and exciting times. Would you rather go to Layer Road than Old Trafford?? Yes the fans are a bunch of bandwagon hoppers up there who have no passion for the game but It''s where we all want to be in the end, winning silverware!Oh yeah and hasn''t this has been said a zillion times before! YAWN!

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

The Premiership is becoming more and more of a monopoly.

Only 4 prem teams have the potential to win the Premiership and a Champions League spot. These teams are the same each year. (boring) 

10 other prem teams play for mid table mediocrity with only the hope winning the FA Cup, League Cup or UEFA spot to look forward to (thats of course if the silverware isn''t won by one of the 4 teams above). These teams are the same each year. (boring)

The remaining 6 teams play for prem survival, usually including the teams who just came up from the Championship (slightly less boring but still boring)

When you look at it like that theres not much of a point being there. I still long to reach the Prem but sometimes I do wonder why. Money probably.

[Sit Down, Shut Up! 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

commenting on my team in this instance i would prefer to be their than in this league but only if we did a wigan and reading

all honesty 80% teams go up will come back down for sure, and i would just be embarrassed to watch my team up there

we would just do a derby and flunk!

i prefer being a reletively big fish in small pond than small fish in big pond

[/quote]I don''t care how you think Wolves will do in the Premiership. I''m wasting my life reading your crap!This isn''t Wolves - Have You Say, you Douche!

[corbs 0]

I was overjoyed when we got promotion, but it was more enjoyable to travel than to arrive. If, only if, we get near promotion again I will be more guarded, and I am sure I am not alone. Personally I find the Cartel at the top of the prem quite distasteful, and I think it must be quite depressing being a middle team like Spurs, with no chance of being Champions. To many games look dull to me, as it is obvious crowds are down. I''ve been to a couple of games at West Ham recently, and even this ''passionate'' East End crowd appeared slightly sedated to me. ''Chumpionship'', well not to me. As I see it this division is akin to the old 1st Division, and the prem is rather like an international division. I refuse to be depressed because we are not in the top flight, as I enjoy my football and the atmosphere, and the whole experience. I also think we are a medium sized provincial Club, and we came from the 3rd Division South, so we are doing ok. Sure, lets go as high as we can, lets show some drive and ambition, but lets keep as sense of perspective about this Division and our prospects, and lets keep the soul of the Club alive (by not selling out to the highest bidder, asset-stripper).

[1st Wizard 0]

I don''t think its the Premierhsip we all want.. rather the excitement of a promotion season or the play offs that we all really want.

Im even prepared to go as far as to say it would be more fun watching us win the league one title than watching us struggle in the championship.

As a fan I want to see my team winning and whatever league that is in I don''t mind.

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

I assume you were devastated when we won promotion in 2004 then.

[/quote]No but certainly didn''t feel the exhileration of previous promotions which seemed more about football. Last time all anyone could talk about was money money money - message board peeing contests. Atmosphere died, away fans were either boring or nasty, when we went away I was amazed how the all seater fiasco has killed the noise from 40,000+ crowds. Most of all I hated the football played under Worthington, so felt we''d gone up without a prayer of holding on to a place in the top flight. So not devastated no, but I didn''t enjoy it.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

I assume you were devastated when we won promotion in 2004 then.

[/quote]

No but certainly didn''t feel the exhileration of previous promotions which seemed more about football. Last time all anyone could talk about was money money money - message board peeing contests. Atmosphere died, away fans were either boring or nasty, when we went away I was amazed how the all seater fiasco has killed the noise from 40,000+ crowds.

Most of all I hated the football played under Worthington, so felt we''d gone up without a prayer of holding on to a place in the top flight.

So not devastated no, but I didn''t enjoy it.
[/quote]

Well I can see what you (and everyone else) is saying and to an extent I agree with a lot of these points but I want to see my team playing at the highest possible level and I, personally, would rather be finishing 15th-16th in the Prem every season rather than being at the top of the Championship (irrelevant at the moment I know - I''d be happy with 21st in the Championship at the end of this season). I don''t think the Prem is as good a league as everyone (well, Sky) make it out to be but it is still the top division and I would love to see us there on a regular basis.

And on the subject of preferring winning the League One title to struggling in the Championship: I would rather not see Norwich in the third tier at all and if we were there''d be no guarantee we''d go up anyway. But I''d rather not find out.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]A relegation battle in the Premiership is 100 times better than a relegation battle in the Championship.[/quote]

Hallelujah.... My answer in a nutshell Graham!!!

I am sure that if we do stay up this season then with Delia & Co yet again holding funds back in the summer we will be looking at another finish between 16th place and 20th place again next season.  Doesn''t the excitement of that just make you oh so grateful that we do not have to bother ourselves with promotion from the Chumpionship and battling to stay in the Premiership??? 

[Chesney Hawkes 0]

[quote user="Stone"]

As a supporter is the premiership really where we want to be?

[/quote]You are Neil Doncaster, and I claim my £5.

[Stone 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Stone, I don''t think responders are saying you did suggest we shouldn''t try and win promotion. You asked a question:

"As a supporter is the premiership really where we want to be?"

and then asked:

"What does anyone else think?"

And we told you. If you don''t want to know then better not to ask.

[/quote]

 

Woah there mate! Neither did I, it was just an additional comment to my original post (in case anyone thought I was implying that), apologies if it confused.

Loved reading the responses, even if this is old ground for a lot of people. In the pub before a game or two this had come up between me and few mates recently, just seeing what everyone else thought.

But then maybe I should be worrying more about the merits of league 1 than the premiership right now!

 

[yellow hammer 0]

I like to play cards with my mates, and we usually the stakes are a few bob to add a bit of spice. We laugh, chat, drink beer, joke around and have a good evening of it. Sometimes a new fella wants to join in and up the stakes to a few pounds. When that happens all the fun goes out of the game. Everyone wants to win the big pot in the middle, and at the same time nervous about the money they''ve already put in.

Same with going up to the Premiership. The fear of failure and the loss of big revenue just puts a big damper on the enjoyment in the game. Outside the big 4 no other club gets a look in. Players become unsettled and want to move on, the moment relegation is threatened. The television audience becomes more important than the supporters passing through the turnstiles. Foreign players who nobody have ever heard of before turn up on the NCFC doorstep.

Move the top four out of the Premiership into a Euro league and let''s get back to putting fun into football.

[we8wba 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="we8wba"]

all honesty 80% teams go up will come back down for sure[/quote]

Where the heck did you get 80% from? I think the number of teams that stay up after winning promotion is actually closer to 50%.

[/quote]

ok 2/3 ususally come back down nowadays. and if not they go down the year after

going from 03/04 season

wolves & leicester come straight back down after being promoted

04/05

norwich & palace come straight back down after being promoted

05/06

sunderland came straight back down, wba lasted one season

06/07

watford & sheff utd came straight back down

07/08

derby look like they coming, sunderland in relegation battle so far

 

the current trend is that 2/3 team promoted go straight back down and if not they are often relegated the year after

[Big Down Under 0]

 Why do people think its Sky''s fault? It was the FAs fault for allowing the Premiership breakaway, especially under the terms it was allowed. The FA was supposed to stop club owners and directors from making a profit out of the game, and now look at the state of things. All Sky have done is take advantage of the situation, and as a business in a capitalist society they have every right to do so. Unless you are one of the ''big 4'' clubs, Which Norwich will never ever be, the most exciting place to be in English football is top of the Championship / bottom of the Premiership and bouncing between the two. I would love Norwich to get back up, then I can see my team on TV each week, but I doubt we will ever be in a position to expect to stay up. Unless you are one of the richest teams in England, you won''t get to win any major trophy either. Now its getting more and more expensive to challenge for the Championship promotion spots too. Its not impossible to compete without major funding from external investors, but will the day come when it will be? What have the FA allowed to happen to our game?

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

It should be you''re aim, or what''s the point?

 My team has been in the Championship and the Premiership. It''s no contest.

8 local derbies.

4 Man Utd & Liverpool games.

Geordies, Man City etc etc.

We beat Man Utd and Arsenal home and away last season, proving that the bottom clubs can beat the top teams on their day.