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Matt Morriss

Iliev for £750,000, but no Taylor for £1m ???

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Im quite bewildered at the moment. Why on earth are we spending £750,000 on an unproven Bulgarian defender and yet we deem spending £1m on Martin Taylor even more of a gamble and something were not prepared to do.For me, £750k on Iliev is a massive risk, £1m on MT, proven at this level, is no risk at all. Considering the loss were bound to make on Strihavka if he goes, i would have thought the club would be wary on investing heavily in players from the Balkans. This just makes no sense to me at all, unless the club are still chasing Taylor and hope to bring in both players.

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Why not wait and see what happens before complaining too much?  A month or so ago I don''t think most of us had given Taylor a second thought - let alone suggest that we should try to pay £1m+ for him - but now it is as if he was the second coming just because he had a relatively successful spell on loan with us for a handful of games.  Of course I would be happy for us to try to get him, but not if it were to be at the expense of the equally important other holes that need filling in the squad.

Re: Iliev, it was GR who brought Tiny here and GR who has apparently stuck to his own valuation of the player - I can''t believe he would get involved in a war of words with Brum if that wasn''t true.  So, if GR decides that the Bulgarian is a better purchase for the money, maybe we should just trust his judgement - who are we to argue before the guy has even kicked a ball? 

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If Norwich did sign both players, then a lot of people here will be eating humble pie, gurantee they will still say the board have no ambition though!!!

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

Why not wait and see what happens before complaining too much?  A month or so ago I don''t think most of us had given Taylor a second thought - let alone suggest that we should try to pay £1m+ for him - but now it is as if he was the second coming just because he had a relatively successful spell on loan with us for a handful of games.  Of course I would be happy for us to try to get him, but not if it were to be at the expense of the equally important other holes that need filling in the squad.

Re: Iliev, it was GR who brought Tiny here and GR who has apparently stuck to his own valuation of the player - I can''t believe he would get involved in a war of words with Brum if that wasn''t true.  So, if GR decides that the Bulgarian is a better purchase for the money, maybe we should just trust his judgement - who are we to argue before the guy has even kicked a ball? 

[/quote]

Quite right Pickle.  Roeder has made the valuation of Tiny and it is he who is deciding on not going back in for him.  If he feels Iliev is better value then we have to trust his judgement.

I would like Taylor back, he played well but I think we are in danger of making him out to be a lot better than he really is.

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Simply we must belive on GR .

Problem must be that Taylor is around 1,2 milion who is 500-600 k( I still belive even that CSKA will agree smaller than this amount) more than Iliev also is 2 years old + sure will need at least 2 times bigger sellaries because come with Premiere league wage not Bulgarian standart wage.

Roeder know the risk if who take this and not sign Taylor then belive me Roeder know why better than all of us!

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[quote user="Saint Canary"]

I would like Taylor back, he played well but I think we are in danger of making him out to be a lot better than he really is.[/quote]

One win in 6 since he left.  However the defense has only conceded 5 goals in 6 games during this time.  (We have only scored 6 in 6)

He was certainly a threat at corners and free kicks, could have made the difference.  We will never know.

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Please go back to Brum and sign Marin Taylor and not a Bulgarian defender who needs a year to get used to the fast Championship and doesn''t speak a word English (?) ... like Strihavka. And he will be a lot away for the Bulgarian National side. Do we want and need that ? Nooo !!! So please sign Martin Taylor, who''s worth all the extra money ... or an other proven British defender ... Mr Roeder ...

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One or two premiership teams seem to take the odd foreign player so whilst I appreciate there is potentially a greater risk then my perception is that there is better value for money available on the continent and is an area we should look to.

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buying 2 defenders at 2 mill certainly wont make me eat humble pie, the board have to do alot better than that to prove they have changed for the better, not convinced on this deal but hoped to be proved wrong, I agree rather go for the extra dough for someone who has proved himself, settled in quick and is liked by the fans.Hopefully we are going for both.

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I think "settling in" and "adapting" is a lot more to do with the player rather than his nationality or where he has played before.

Yes, Dave Striker has looked a bit lost, but given the run-or not-he has had, that might account for it. There is also the possibility that his move to us was agent led, he looked a bit lost and forlorn (!) during the whole transfer saga and you tend to wonder if he was advised into the move, rather than actively seeking it himself. So, as an individual he may be struggling for those or other reasons, but not, I think, because of where he is from/has played his football.

Berbatov is the prime example of a Bulgarian footballer coming here, settling and making an immediate impact. But others don''t. However, it also applies to English players, including with English clubs-look at Curo, couldn''t stop scoring at CUFC last season, but looking way off the pace with us this time around. Its all down to individuals and a whole lot of other circumstances, you have to look at the player and judge them on how they look and play and hope they''ll be a success if you sign them for that reason, and, equally hope that there are no outside parameters that might spoil that.

Every signing, no matter who the player is a risk. I would like us to get Taylor, prefer Taylor to Iliev even, but if the Manager thinks differently thats up to him, and after all, his career and NCFC''s future depends on who he gets in and who he doesn''t, so he can''t be taking this possible signing lightly.

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Berbatov started slowly in the Premiership only scoring a couple of goals in the league before Christmas before finally bursting into form. This could be similar to Dave. It''s common for it to take a while for foreigners to get used to the pace and physicality of the game here so we''ll need to be patient. With Dave and potentially with Iliev.

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something tells me the budget is now spent... and With Evans loan not being renewed its time to focus attention elsewhere... Ameobi? perhaps.. was he the guy who said he didnt want to come over Xmas? if so why would he want to come now..?

Zamora? A good bet.. not getting a game at the spammers and scored for fun at this level with Brighton... would be desperate to show what he can do after becoming footballs Forgotten man.

jas :)

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]

I would like Taylor back, he played well but I think we are in danger of making him out to be a lot better than he really is.[/quote]

One win in 6 since he left.  However the defense has only conceded 5 goals in 6 games during this time.  (We have only scored 6 in 6)

He was certainly a threat at corners and free kicks, could have made the difference.  We will never know.

[/quote]And wasn''t it exactly that kind of form that got Grant into trouble?

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Well said Old Shuck. Curo indeed is a good example of what woud be considered a safe bet for goals and not coming off.

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As I understand it, Taylor''s contract runs out in the summer, so unless Birmingham sell in this window they will lose a fortune because Taylor may just let his contract expire. Surely, one million pounds for a 28 year-old player with a few months left on his contract is far too much, and perhaps the plan is to wait it out until the summer and get him for nothing but a signing-on fee!! Thus, Taylor may not sign for anybody right now, as this may well be his plan if he wants to come to Norwich.  

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Okay but I find it a lot of money for a Bulgarian defender who plays for CSKA Sofia. But I hope I''m wrong if we will sign him. If you want to go foreign you better go to Scandinavia. Good solid talented young players and they speak and learn their languages very well.

Well Berbatov is a real starplayer, he will play well every where.

 

Norwich haven''t been too lucky with their foreign players in the past. Average Dutch and French players, also brought in by mystery agents. Most Scandinavian players did better here too. But I still think when you buy a foreign player he must have somthing special, extra, otherwise you can better buy a British player. And if possible give talented youth a chance.

 

We are short of goalscoring strikers at the moment I think. I was hoping for Kris Renton to break in to the squad but unfortunately he broke his leg while he was in good form. So we have Huckerby, Cureton, Dublin, Martin and Strihavka to choose from. Brown and Evans seem to be gone both. Not a lot of goals to come from I''m afraid for the rest of the season. Hope we can stay out of the relegation zone ...

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lets be clear about it.  signing taylor was a ''no brainer.'' he was the proven, rational choice. with taylor on board, we enjoyed ''championship winning form.''  first time for 2 years.  so what do the ''prem ambitious'' board of NCFC do - fail to sign an integral cog in this success.  sure, brum and brady are not the easiest people to deal with - but leaving ego''s aside - i believe we should have taken everything on the chin and given them the dosh.  if taylor was genuinely interested,  it seems once again the board have refused the chance to speculate to accumulate, (on a bloody good bet) but are prepared to gamble on a potential risky venture in signing iliev!!!  why??? seems dumb.because as we all know, getting a squad to balance and that knows how to win and keeps winning is one hell of a job in this league - its a hard physical slog and so far every team in the division is guilty of inconsistency.  we had that squad with taylor here, and we choose to undo it.since taylor has left, although not losing, we''ve drawn too much, and this has stalled our progress up the table.  so although 2 places outa the bottom 3 - were only 2 points off it.  we''re the wrong side of xmas to slip into the bttom 3, its like fudging quicksand down there!!! in short we''re too close for comfort - a bad run of form could us back in the relegation scrap.  we''ve certainly got winnable games coming up in jan/feb - and we need to win our far share of them to be safe.roedy has chosen well so far, i''m hoping he''s spot on with iliev - but if he''s wrong, NCFC could pay a heavy price.  with city 5th from bottom - there''s no margin for error to allow the player to settle in - the bulgar has to play like a goodun from day one.  roedy is no fool, and is taking a calcuated gamble.  lets hope the boy is the real deal.personally, i believe taylor wasn''t whole heartedly committed to coming here, and if so, my aplogies to the board, and congrats to roedy for hopefully bringing a bargain here!!!

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Our problem is scoring goals, not conceding, to be fair our defence has been pretty tight since taylor left, we just need a goalscorer

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]

I would like Taylor back, he played well but I think we are in danger of making him out to be a lot better than he really is.[/quote]

One win in 6 since he left.  However the defense has only conceded 5 goals in 6 games during this time.  (We have only scored 6 in 6)

He was certainly a threat at corners and free kicks, could have made the difference.  We will never know.

[/quote]

Hmm.  With Taylor in the side we let in 12 in 8; we lost 3 of those games and haven''t lost since he left.  It is amazing how you can play with stats, isn''t it?  They hardly ever tell the full story. 

IMO there was a lot more to the turnaround in form than just Taylor; though he was part of it, it was only when Pattison, Camara and Evans all came in that we had the big turnaround.  Whatever the reason, we needed to start to defend better and did so, we also needed to start to create more chances and did so (to find the strikers being in iffy form a bit too often).  Perhaps the form has dipped occasionally, but we have enough about us to be unbeaten in 8 (one defeat in 11) which is the sort of run we could only dream about just 2 months ago.

 

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[quote user="ellis206"]Our problem is scoring goals, not conceding, to be fair our defence has been pretty tight since taylor left, we just need a goalscorer
[/quote]

Got to say from what i''ve seen of Doc this season he seems different class. People can still moan, but he''s been outstanding.

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[quote user="lucky green trainers"]lets be clear about it.  signing taylor was a ''no brainer.'' he was the proven, rational choice. with taylor on board, we enjoyed ''championship winning form.''  first time for 2 years.  so what do the ''prem ambitious'' board of NCFC do - fail to sign an integral cog in this success.  sure, brum and brady are not the easiest people to deal with - but leaving ego''s aside - i believe we should have taken everything on the chin and given them the dosh.  if taylor was genuinely interested,  it seems once again the board have refused the chance to speculate to accumulate, (on a bloody good bet) but are prepared to gamble on a potential risky venture in signing iliev!!!  why??? seems dumb.

because as we all know, getting a squad to balance and that knows how to win and keeps winning is one hell of a job in this league - its a hard physical slog and so far every team in the division is guilty of inconsistency.  we had that squad with taylor here, and we choose to undo it.

since taylor has left, although not losing, we''ve drawn too much, and this has stalled our progress up the table.  so although 2 places outa the bottom 3 - were only 2 points off it.  we''re the wrong side of xmas to slip into the bttom 3, its like fudging quicksand down there!!!

in short we''re too close for comfort - a bad run of form could us back in the relegation scrap.  we''ve certainly got winnable games coming up in jan/feb - and we need to win our far share of them to be safe.

roedy has chosen well so far, i''m hoping he''s spot on with iliev - but if he''s wrong, NCFC could pay a heavy price. 

with city 5th from bottom - there''s no margin for error to allow the player to settle in - the bulgar has to play like a goodun from day one.  roedy is no fool, and is taking a calcuated gamble.  lets hope the boy is the real deal.

personally, i believe taylor wasn''t whole heartedly committed to coming here, and if so, my aplogies to the board, and congrats to roedy for hopefully bringing a bargain here!!!




[/quote]

 

Echoed, you speaketh truth.

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I think the Taylor affair is all about who will ''blink'' first.

Remember that come 31 Jan, Brum will get nothing if they haven''t sold Taylor because his contract expires in the summer; so Birmingham really have to sell him this month.

On the other hand, if Taylor decides he''s not going to a club that is not to his liking, he just has to sit tight for a few months and then walk when his contract is up. For Taylor, the danger is that his ''chosen'' club might not wait around six months for him to become available, and instead sign up some alternatives in the mean time.

Norwich can take a chance that Taylor is going nowhere in January and get him for free at the end of the season, but at the risk of Taylor deciding to cut his losses and accept an offer from Leicester or whoever.

It''s a bit like the stones, scissors, paper game. Maybe Glen and Tiny have some gentlemen''s agreement that we don''t know about. However, I think that City are doing the right thing in going for an alternative in case the Taylor deal doesn''t come off.

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Taylor not only made a difference at the back but he made a difference going forward. He used to bring the ball forward and pass to our midfield into the other teams half. Too often with shax and doc they either hoof the ball or pass to russell etc. who have their back to goal and in their own half. It''s no suprise that with taylor in our team we scored more goals and without him we have scored less. Too often the mdifield has to come deep to get the ball and that leaves JC and whoever else is up front very isolated.

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[quote user="yellow hammer"]

I think the Taylor affair is all about who will ''blink'' first.

Remember that come 31 Jan, Brum will get nothing if they haven''t sold Taylor because his contract expires in the summer; so Birmingham really have to sell him this month.

On the other hand, if Taylor decides he''s not going to a club that is not to his liking, he just has to sit tight for a few months and then walk when his contract is up. For Taylor, the danger is that his ''chosen'' club might not wait around six months for him to become available, and instead sign up some alternatives in the mean time.

Norwich can take a chance that Taylor is going nowhere in January and get him for free at the end of the season, but at the risk of Taylor deciding to cut his losses and accept an offer from Leicester or whoever.

It''s a bit like the stones, scissors, paper game. Maybe Glen and Tiny have some gentlemen''s agreement that we don''t know about. However, I think that City are doing the right thing in going for an alternative in case the Taylor deal doesn''t come off.

[/quote]

Looking at Brum''s Chairman''s comments today, it looks as though you could be right, mate. Here''s betting we get two new CBs in this month

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[quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="yellow hammer"]

I think the Taylor affair is all about who will ''blink'' first.

Remember that come 31 Jan, Brum will get nothing if they haven''t sold Taylor because his contract expires in the summer; so Birmingham really have to sell him this month.

On the other hand, if Taylor decides he''s not going to a club that is not to his liking, he just has to sit tight for a few months and then walk when his contract is up. For Taylor, the danger is that his ''chosen'' club might not wait around six months for him to become available, and instead sign up some alternatives in the mean time.

Norwich can take a chance that Taylor is going nowhere in January and get him for free at the end of the season, but at the risk of Taylor deciding to cut his losses and accept an offer from Leicester or whoever.

It''s a bit like the stones, scissors, paper game. Maybe Glen and Tiny have some gentlemen''s agreement that we don''t know about. However, I think that City are doing the right thing in going for an alternative in case the Taylor deal doesn''t come off.

[/quote]

Looking at Brum''s Chairman''s comments today, it looks as though you could be right, mate. Here''s betting we get two new CBs in this month

[/quote]Archant misleading headline - The Birmingham Chairman has said nothing new.

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[quote user="YellowIce"]

I believe he has 18 months left.

[/quote]

Yeah I thought he had over a year left, so his contract wont be expiring this summer.  But then again Brum wont be wanting to pay his wages for the next 18 months when they do not want him. 

I think we can guess as much as we like about how the Taylor situation is going to end, but no one will know until it happens. 

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="yellow hammer"][quote user="yellow hammer"]

I think the Taylor affair is all about who will ''blink'' first.

Remember that come 31 Jan, Brum will get nothing if they haven''t sold Taylor because his contract expires in the summer; so Birmingham really have to sell him this month.

On the other hand, if Taylor decides he''s not going to a club that is not to his liking, he just has to sit tight for a few months and then walk when his contract is up. For Taylor, the danger is that his ''chosen'' club might not wait around six months for him to become available, and instead sign up some alternatives in the mean time.

Norwich can take a chance that Taylor is going nowhere in January and get him for free at the end of the season, but at the risk of Taylor deciding to cut his losses and accept an offer from Leicester or whoever.

It''s a bit like the stones, scissors, paper game. Maybe Glen and Tiny have some gentlemen''s agreement that we don''t know about. However, I think that City are doing the right thing in going for an alternative in case the Taylor deal doesn''t come off.

[/quote]

Looking at Brum''s Chairman''s comments today, it looks as though you could be right, mate. Here''s betting we get two new CBs in this month

[/quote]Archant misleading headline - The Birmingham Chairman has said nothing new.[/quote]Although nothing new has been said it was pretty much common knowledge what was said in the article.Brum want to sell taylor, he has no worth at the club. He''s not going to play and he''s gonna leave in the summer. Norwich want to buy taylor. Now who wants which the most. Arguably we wanted to buy taylor more. But now that brum want too much money and the fact that we have other players lined up it looks as though Glen doesn''t want him. Brum are now stuck. Is a quarter of the money they would get selling him be worth the risk to stick out for. If they don''t sell him it is likely they will get nothing. 750k is nothing to sniff at and is extra funds for mcgleish to get players in. In the end Brum are gonna have to accept that 750k is the highest viable bid they will get and they are gonna have to either accept it or reject it and get nothing. Whilst the days pass there''s less and less time for brum to get the players they need to stay up.

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[quote user="Fellas"]Taylor not only made a difference at the back but he made a difference going forward. He used to bring the ball forward and pass to our midfield into the other teams half. Too often with shax and doc they either hoof the ball or pass to russell etc. who have their back to goal and in their own half.

It''s no suprise that with taylor in our team we scored more goals and without him we have scored less. Too often the mdifield has to come deep to get the ball and that leaves JC and whoever else is up front very isolated.
[/quote]

I agree that Taylor would bring the ball further before releasing it but the catalyst for this was the return of Fotheringham to the midfield, to play the ball out of defence a midfield player has to show willing to receive it. When they don''t the defence has to resort to bypassing the midfield and we lose possession 9 times out of 10. The same thing happened last season, when Safri was in the side we played the ball from the back but when he was missing we resorted to hoof.

Fellas, you or I could play a simple pass to a midfielder when not under any pressure so I''m sure Doc and Shax can, but that midfielder has to want the ball. If they don''t show we would have to hoof it, and I can''t hoof as far as The Doc! [;)]

 

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