Swearing in the stands!

[renegade tootsie 0]

I would LOVE to know how you make a ''conscious effort'' not to sit near kids?

[quote user="kick it off"]Its always been a part of football, always will be.

When i go, i make a conscious effort not to sit near anyone with young kids, if i have to do so i tone my language down but do sometimes lapse.

You can''t stop people swearing at football and why should we all have to watch ourselves the whole time we''re at a game because you decided to take your kids? i''m not being argumentative, but people go to the football to relax and don''t want to have to watch what they say, and vent frustrations etc.

The supporters passion is a massive part of football. If we were banned from swearing, we might as well sit there in silence for fear a slip of the tongue may get us ejected.

I''m sorry but this is ludicrous. You know football fans swear, I went when i was a kid and people swore, and my dad went as a kid and people swore. It is no surprise, so why should thousands upon thousands of fans change their behaviour because you took your kids knowing full well thats what happens?

If people around you are using language you find offensive then ask them if they can tone it down. Most City fans are reasonable enough to do so if you explain it''s due to your kids being there. If they carry on regardless, then they are a little rude, but i certainly wouldn''t blame them as they have paid there entrance money just like you and have certainly not gone in there expecting to be censored.
[/quote]

[renegade tootsie 0]

To the people saying with bravado ''ah its part of football'' I ask:

 

If you had a kid and knew your ten year old was snarling ''c***'' at someone and sticking their fingers up at a game due to seeing adults doing it and it being ''acceptable at football'' is that ok?

[Jamie Curetons Green Hair 0]

I may seem in the minority here but I agree with "Keep the faith." Being a Barclay boy in the good old 70''s when the Barclay was worthy of the name we had some near the knuckle songs, but the " C" word did not get used. Perhaps we are from a different era or possibly hipocritical but C... is a step too far.
"Pardew your''e a C.." is hardly very inteligent or original. Is that the best the Barclay of today can come up with?

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Mister Positive"]Not allowed to smoke at the ground, not allowed to drink in the stands, and now you want us to control our language as well! Despite the fact that various groups of people have tried to change the origins and basis of the game, football is a WORKING CLASS game that is played by the working class, and watched by the working class Q.E.D the language will be working class. I don''t think your childrens ears will be subjected to anything more than what they will hear in the playground everyday. I take my 5 year old daughter and I accept that the language is part and parcel of the game, she knows that what she hears at a match is '' bad words '' and she would never dare use or repeat what she hears. Please find something else to worry about or maybe take your children to the ballet or something that will not offend you or them[/quote]

I''m sorry, but are you a time traveller from a couple of generations ago???

Football is a massively far cry from the game that started out over a hundred years ago.

Anyone who is getting paid over £100,000 per year (That''s only a £2000k per week wage, many players are on 10-70 times that), cannot be classed as "Working Class".

And what''s more, with current ticket prices and availability, it''s certainly not financially viable for many "Working Class" families to have £70+ per week to see their team play.

Swearing has almost always been present at football matches, and this is unlikely to change, however...just because something has always been a certain way, doesn''t make it instantly either right, or acceptable.

Racism was and is unacceptable, and major campaigns have been run to get this out of the sport, but going on the basis of "There''s always been...", then are you suggesting it should still be allowed, or maybe that it should be brought back in, and players actively discriminated against if that''s your viewpoint?

I very much doubt any right minded individual would think like this.

Just because I want to watch my team play, does that mean I have to put up with listening to a seemingly endless torrent of abuse at times from the stands to do so? Does it also mean that because I don''t want to listen to incessant swearing, I should abandon support of my club, and instead do something else - I don''t bloody well think so!

To be honest, I personally don''t understand why the only way some people can actually enjoy the game, is by mouthing obscenities at either the ref, manager, players or fans every 2 minutes. Rousing chants from the terraces improves the atmosphere and urges the team forwards, calling them all C**TS, and making everyone within earshot fully aware that in your opinion "the ref is a W***ER", does very little to improve this.

Whilst I''m certainly not into the ridiculous applications of political correctness we appear to be subjected to these days, I still think there are some occasions when it makes sense, and I do think that this is one of them.

Thoughts?

[......and Smith must score. 1,341]

[quote user="JC"]

I would LOVE to know how you make a ''conscious effort'' not to sit near kids?

[quote user="kick it off"]Its always been a part of football, always will be.

When i go, i make a conscious effort not to sit near anyone with young kids, if i have to do so i tone my language down but do sometimes lapse.

You can''t stop people swearing at football and why should we all have to watch ourselves the whole time we''re at a game because you decided to take your kids? i''m not being argumentative, but people go to the football to relax and don''t want to have to watch what they say, and vent frustrations etc.

The supporters passion is a massive part of football. If we were banned from swearing, we might as well sit there in silence for fear a slip of the tongue may get us ejected.

I''m sorry but this is ludicrous. You know football fans swear, I went when i was a kid and people swore, and my dad went as a kid and people swore. It is no surprise, so why should thousands upon thousands of fans change their behaviour because you took your kids knowing full well thats what happens?

If people around you are using language you find offensive then ask them if they can tone it down. Most City fans are reasonable enough to do so if you explain it''s due to your kids being there. If they carry on regardless, then they are a little rude, but i certainly wouldn''t blame them as they have paid there entrance money just like you and have certainly not gone in there expecting to be censored.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Pretty difficult in a sold out all-seater stadium I should think......

I expect some of us wistfully recall those pre-sellout days when you could chose where to sit. Having escaped parental responsibility for an afternoon what could beat a few pre-match pints and a good ''eff and blind '' with your mates in a nice secluded area tucked away from it all ?? 

Brings a tear to the eye.......

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="JC"]If you had a kid and knew your ten year old was snarling ''c***'' at someone and sticking their fingers up at a game due to seeing adults doing it and it being ''acceptable at football'' is that ok?[/quote]

Of course not but then you punish your kid in this situation, surely?

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Keep the faith"]

Like to know other peoples opinions on this one. I admit you expect passion and frustrations run high and it''s inevitable you''ll here a certain amount but should people be allowed to use language that would get you arrested in the City amongst the crowd. For example I take my lads with me to the games, all 3 of us are season ticket holders, and on Boxing Day we and those around us were bombarded with no thought or respect of other people and children, with chants of  "Pardew you''re a C**T". We''ve had successful campaigns to kick out racism let''s have one to stamp this out too.

[/quote]

 

I take it u sit in the barclay.. i also take it that u never joined in with the "scum" chants towards matty Holland? or the W***er chants when Sodje was sent off?

 

if not then that makes u a hypocrite doesnt it?

jas :)

[corbs 0]

We all have our''standards'' and I can be a bit of a hypocrite, but I tend not to us the C word. I do a fair amount of ranting though. Obviously racism is a no-no, but I have to be honest and say I also dislike ''regionalist'' chants e.g ''in your Northern Slums'' etc. It is partly because I have lived in many super parts of England, but also because I am unsettled by the vitriolic homourless things people in large Cities (I live in London) say about people in rural area''s. I have always been a bit defensive over this one.

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="JC"]

I would LOVE to know how you make a ''conscious effort'' not to sit near kids?

[/quote]

I tend to go to away games which are often unreserved seating when you purchase a ticket on the day, or if we have not filled our allocation, there is option to pick where you sit. In cases of reserved seating, if i am sat near young kids or older people, particularly eldery ladies; i wait til the game has kicked off and then move if i see spare seat away from kids.

[kirku 1,332]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

[quote user="Mister Positive"]Not allowed to smoke at the ground, not allowed to drink in the stands, and now you want us to control our language as well! Despite the fact that various groups of people have tried to change the origins and basis of the game, football is a WORKING CLASS game that is played by the working class, and watched by the working class Q.E.D the language will be working class. I don''t think your childrens ears will be subjected to anything more than what they will hear in the playground everyday. I take my 5 year old daughter and I accept that the language is part and parcel of the game, she knows that what she hears at a match is '' bad words '' and she would never dare use or repeat what she hears. Please find something else to worry about or maybe take your children to the ballet or something that will not offend you or them[/quote]

I''m sorry, but are you a time traveller from a couple of generations ago???

Football is a massively far cry from the game that started out over a hundred years ago.

Anyone who is getting paid over £100,000 per year (That''s only a £2000k per week wage, many players are on 10-70 times that), cannot be classed as "Working Class".

And what''s more, with current ticket prices and availability, it''s certainly not financially viable for many "Working Class" families to have £70+ per week to see their team play.

Swearing has almost always been present at football matches, and this is unlikely to change, however...just because something has always been a certain way, doesn''t make it instantly either right, or acceptable.

Racism was and is unacceptable, and major campaigns have been run to get this out of the sport, but going on the basis of "There''s always been...", then are you suggesting it should still be allowed, or maybe that it should be brought back in, and players actively discriminated against if that''s your viewpoint?

I very much doubt any right minded individual would think like this.

Just because I want to watch my team play, does that mean I have to put up with listening to a seemingly endless torrent of abuse at times from the stands to do so? Does it also mean that because I don''t want to listen to incessant swearing, I should abandon support of my club, and instead do something else - I don''t bloody well think so!

To be honest, I personally don''t understand why the only way some people can actually enjoy the game, is by mouthing obscenities at either the ref, manager, players or fans every 2 minutes. Rousing chants from the terraces improves the atmosphere and urges the team forwards, calling them all C**TS, and making everyone within earshot fully aware that in your opinion "the ref is a W***ER", does very little to improve this.

Whilst I''m certainly not into the ridiculous applications of political correctness we appear to be subjected to these days, I still think there are some occasions when it makes sense, and I do think that this is one of them.

Thoughts?

[/quote]Thoughts? - Three words spring to mind: freedom of speech. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Voltaire''s book, ''I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it''

[Iwan is God 0]

The fact is, some people find swearing more offensive than others. My mum for example would have people who swear locked up, whereas I''m no bothered by it. The real question is, why should the people who want to swear be dictated to by the easily offended?

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="JC"]

To the people saying with bravado ''ah its part of football'' I ask:

 

If you had a kid and knew your ten year old was snarling ''c***'' at someone and sticking their fingers up at a game due to seeing adults doing it and it being ''acceptable at football'' is that ok?

[/quote]

[quote user="JC"]

To the people saying with bravado ''ah its part of football'' I ask:

 

If you had a kid and knew your ten year old was snarling ''c***'' at someone

and sticking their fingers up at a game due to seeing adults doing it and it

being ''acceptable at football'' is that ok?

[/quote]

No, just the same as if i had a kid and he put a gun to someone''s head as he''d

seen it in a film or video game. It is the parent''s responsibility to socialise

the child effectively.

There is plenty of stuff that is worse than swearing on TV currently. You let

the kid watch hollyoaks, you have incest. Coronation St and you have pupils

having sex with their teacher.. Eastenders and you have affairs with the

boyfriend''s father. All of these are on before the 9 o clock watershed. Are they suitable viewing? debate for another time. Are they viewed by kids? most certainly. Do children immediately go out copying the actions they have seen? doubtful.

If my child was taking drugs and said they were doing it because they''d seen it on TV i''d say it was a weak excuse and punish them. Same as if my kid was calling someone a C**t and said they did it because they heard it at football.

Kids are not mindless drones who just copy everything they see or hear.

I was going to games from the age of two, and i have a very good sense of

pragmatism. I never swore in front of my parents, even at games, as i had proper socialisation and realised it was unacceptable and that my dad would punish me if i swore in his presence. However, at school, like the rest of my peers, i swore like a trooper. I heard swear words at school day in day out, i heard swearing at football for 90mins in the week. Should we just ban swearing altogether? Live in a very nice little community knitting each other jumpers?

[Things are looking up 0]

I''ll hold my hand up and admit yes we sit in the the Barclay and chose to do so and yes myself and my boys have joined in with many of the chants, but the point is are things getting out of hand  and do we all need to show a bit more respect to future and upcoming fans? Seems to me that this is getting worse each year. Have we lost  the ability to chant without involving the "C" word?                                    I also explain to kids what''s said in the Barclay stays in the Barclay. Working class and proud of it.

 

[Things are looking up 0]

Stirred up a hornets''s nest with this one. I take full responsibilty for seating us in the Barclay over the years we''ve tried the rest and it''s the best. I am not offended by this word unless of course it was aimed at me, so I take no offence from what''s been written. But as you say,  is this really the best we can come up with? Freedom of speech is for everybody. Just wanted to know how others felt on the subject, seems the majority believe it''s the way it is and always will be.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote]The fact is, some people find swearing more offensive than others. My mum for example would have people who swear locked up, whereas I''m no bothered by it. The real question is, why should the people who want to swear be dictated to by the easily offended?[/quote]

That works both ways though.

Why should those who don''t like to hear this, have their match ruined by people loudly shouting obscenities? At the minute they are being dictated to...

[Ginja 26]

I''m afraid the world is not a fluffy happy rainbow world, there are bad and evil things out there that kids will find out about, whether it be drugs, sex, swearing, war or dieing. No matter how much cotten wool you wrap them up, they will find out, which IMO does not help in the slightest, in fact I suspect it does more damage than good in the long run. For me IMO its best to tackle the problem before it arises, by educating them at the appropriate time.Personally if it was me taking my kid to the game for the first time, I''d educate him a bit before we went, I''d rather he learnt the words from me and understood that they are bad "adult" words and carry a punishment if used.Football is a passionate ground and a place where inhibitions are dropped and possibly one of the few sanctuaries left for adults and I stand firmly behind being allowed to swear at football games. BUT everything in moderation, some people seem to lack any ability to not swear in a sentence, which not even I can stand.

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Keep the faith"]

I''ll hold my hand up and admit yes we sit in the the Barclay and chose to do so and yes myself and my boys have joined in with many of the chants, but the point is are things getting out of hand  and do we all need to show a bit more respect to future and upcoming fans? Seems to me that this is getting worse each year. Have we lost  the ability to chant without involving the "C" word?                                    I also explain to kids what''s said in the Barclay stays in the Barclay. Working class and proud of it.

[/quote]Please correct me if I''m wrong, but I don''t believe any of our chants have the C-word in them, certainly none of the popular repeated ones.

[dugh 0]

All this business of racism/swearing has reminded me of an occasion away at Derby where I sat behind one of our fans who repeatedly aimed racist comments towards Ravanelli. After about 20 minutes of this, I''d had enough and asked him politely to ''leave out the racist stuff, mate''. I was told to ''F*****g sit down and shut up you c**t!'' Not one of the moments where I''d felt proudest of our fans.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]
Football is a passionate ground and a place where inhibitions are dropped and possibly one of the few sanctuaries left for adults and I stand firmly behind being allowed to swear at football games.
BUT everything in moderation, some people seem to lack any ability to not swear in a sentence, which not even I can stand.
[/quote]

Nothing personal, but it seems a sad indictment of society as a whole, when people are defending the right to be abusive towards one another...

[kirku 1,332]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]Football is a passionate ground and a place where inhibitions are dropped and possibly one of the few sanctuaries left for adults and I stand firmly behind being allowed to swear at football games. BUT everything in moderation, some people seem to lack any ability to not swear in a sentence, which not even I can stand.[/quote]

Nothing personal, but it seems a sad indictment of society as a whole, when people are defending the right to be abusive towards one another...

[/quote]So you would rather live somewhere like China? Where the government censors such things as: police brutality, anarchism, the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, freedom of speech, democracy, pornography, certain news sources, certain religious content, and many websites.I''m afraid with freedom of speech it is all or nothing; either you desire censorship from our increasingly invasive governement or we should be allowed to say what we want, when we want, unless it incites criminal acts.

[kirku 1,332]

Oh yes, i forgot to put this in my last post. This whole thread is somewhat similar to the Penn & Teller: Bullsh!t episode titled ''profanity''. Those interested in watching this excellant show could do alot worse than typing ''penn and teller bullshit profanity'' into google..

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]Football is a passionate ground and a place where inhibitions are dropped and possibly one of the few sanctuaries left for adults and I stand firmly behind being allowed to swear at football games. BUT everything in moderation, some people seem to lack any ability to not swear in a sentence, which not even I can stand.[/quote]

Nothing personal, but it seems a sad indictment of society as a whole, when people are defending the right to be abusive towards one another...

[/quote]Indy, a fair point, but I still think at the end of the day it''s a passionate place football and swear words will be uttered at some point, but I see where your coming from and some people do need to learn some decorum and self control, e.g. mindless abuse of the away dugout, is merely one example of how some people take it too far. Personally I like going to a game and being able to express myself, but I always leave it at the game, and I think its a good stress relief to have a shout and swear. In fact studies have shown swearing at work helps relieve stress http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7047536.stm

[Dicky 0]

I often take my kids to the match with me and they have heard all words possible being shouted and chanted, but I can guarantee they have heard them all before.  When my kids are with me, I do control my language more so than when they are not there, but I would never deny anybody at a football match the chance to let off steam after a hard week.

As for the use of the C word, I think it was last season when a good proportion of the crowd joined in with a chant of "Lino, you''re a c**t" - my 11 year old asked me what they were singing.  I obviously didn''t tell him, but after about 30 seconds a big grin spread across his face as he worked it out.  Yes he already knew the word, yes he knew it was the worst word - has he (to my knowledge) used the word since because of it, no because he has been properly brought up to know right from wrong.  Will he join in with the chant if it happened again when he is 18?  I would guess so if he was with his mates, although I would hope not in front of me.

Let''s not try and sanitise football too much please - it is one of the last bastions for people like me who have stressful jobs, five young children and a demanding wife to escape and let off some steam without having to worry too much. Certain things like racism and jibes about illnesses are wrong, but a good old bit of swearing, long may it continue (and I for one will do my bit to make sure it does).

[Robert N. LiM 4,314]

There is nothing intrinsically offensive about words - there are only offensive ideas or beliefs.

I would argue that "Pardew, you''re a c**t" is far less offensive than the West Ham fans shouting "Tumour Boy" at Roeder, despite the latter having no swearwords in it.

So the issue is about manners, respecting the beliefs of others. Personally I think there''s nothing wrong with swearing, but my parents are offended by it, so I don''t swear in front of them, because I respect their beliefs although I don''t share them.

I agree that with all-seater stadiums it''s far more difficult to watch the game with people who want to behave the same way as you. Perhaps we should have separate sections for:

• non-swearers with kids
• swearers who think going to football is a perfect opportunity to educate their kids as to when swearing is and isn''t acceptable.
• people who just want to moan (although we already have that in the lower River End)
• people who want to stand constantly and sing their hearts out for the lads.
• people who want to sing "My old man said be an Ipswich fan, I said, f*** off b******s, you''re a c***.
• those who love Delia
• those who think it was much better in their day

I don''t think fans should bully players. Sustained abuse or any kind of racist or homophobic chants or remarks are obviously totally unacceptable. But, a returning player who deserted City should expect a bit of stick, a manager who tries to waste time or get one of our players booked should expect to be called a c***. Ipswich players should expect to get booed. I think Matt Holland''s shoulders are more than broad enough to put up with the mild treatment he got on Boxing Day.

As for the kids, the only thing they need to learn is that swearing is acceptable at some times and in some places, not in others. It''s just manners. Personally, I think swearing is acceptable in a football ground. How are you supposed to watch Hucks disappearing down another blind alley without swearing?

[Kolin Kob 0]

I think the idea of getting rid of swearing in carrow road is doubly ridiculous due to the fact that racism still has yet to be kicked out of norwich city support. we''d like to think its gone for good, but i''m sorry to say i''ve heard racist taunts from city fans this season, and in previous seasons.

[rainbow 0]

[quote user="Keep the faith"]

Like to know other peoples opinions on this one. I admit you expect passion and frustrations run high and it''s inevitable you''ll here a certain amount but should people be allowed to use language that would get you arrested in the City amongst the crowd. For example I take my lads with me to the games, all 3 of us are season ticket holders, and on Boxing Day we and those around us were bombarded with no thought or respect of other people and children, with chants of  "Pardew you''re a C**T". We''ve had successful campaigns to kick out racism let''s have one to stamp this out too.

[/quote]

would the word C**T being chanted by the barclay against pardew bothered you if your kids had not been there to hear it? I think not but i too hate it when there are kids in front of me and the language is very bad. maybe the club should put an age restriction of say 14 or 15yrs old in the barclay or the snakepit?

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Dicky"]

I often take my kids to the match with me and they have heard all words possible being shouted and chanted, but I can guarantee they have heard them all before.  When my kids are with me, I do control my language more so than when they are not there, but I would never deny anybody at a football match the chance to let off steam after a hard week.

As for the use of the C word, I think it was last season when a good proportion of the crowd joined in with a chant of "Lino, you''re a c**t" - my 11 year old asked me what they were singing.  I obviously didn''t tell him, but after about 30 seconds a big grin spread across his face as he worked it out.  Yes he already knew the word, yes he knew it was the worst word - has he (to my knowledge) used the word since because of it, no because he has been properly brought up to know right from wrong.  Will he join in with the chant if it happened again when he is 18?  I would guess so if he was with his mates, although I would hope not in front of me.

Let''s not try and sanitise football too much please - it is one of the last bastions for people like me who have stressful jobs, five young children and a demanding wife to escape and let off some steam without having to worry too much. Certain things like racism and jibes about illnesses are wrong, but a good old bit of swearing, long may it continue (and I for one will do my bit to make sure it does).

[/quote]Well said Dicky, fully agree with everything you''ve said [Y]

[gazzathegreat 0]

[quote user="rainbow"][quote user="Keep the faith"]

Like to know other peoples opinions on this one. I admit you expect passion and frustrations run high and it''s inevitable you''ll here a certain amount but should people be allowed to use language that would get you arrested in the City amongst the crowd. For example I take my lads with me to the games, all 3 of us are season ticket holders, and on Boxing Day we and those around us were bombarded with no thought or respect of other people and children, with chants of  "Pardew you''re a C**T". We''ve had successful campaigns to kick out racism let''s have one to stamp this out too.

[/quote]

would the word C**T being chanted by the barclay against pardew bothered you if your kids had not been there to hear it? I think not but i too hate it when there are kids in front of me and the language is very bad. maybe the club should put an age restriction of say 14 or 15yrs old in the barclay or the snakepit?

[/quote] Rainbow! NOOOOO.....to be condemned to the River End or South Stand Family Area until you are 14/15 - poor kids! Yes they might hear some choice language, but have already heard it from playgroup stages up.

[Dicky 0]

I can imagine there will be some colloquilisms flying around today at Palace.  My old man, said be an Ipswich fan....

[DIDDY a 0]

Stop being so sad! If your that bothered about it either don''t go or sit in the family area. Hope I''ve solved the problem for you mate!