WE STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAVE HAD FOR A LONG TIME

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I have been one of the most positive posters on here for some time and particularly since Glenn Roeder was appointed.

Glenn is getting results from a group of players he was largely lumped with and that is massive credit to him.

In particular, Glenn has cut out the goals against and made us tougher and more resilient; but he has yet to get to grips with our long term problem although he is no doubt working on it.

That problem is our lack of a cutting edge, a threat, and a lack of goals.

The defence deserve great credit this season because they defend without a midfield adequately picking up clearences, strikers providing an outlet but most importantly of all a cutting edge which makes the opposition reticent about coming forwards and leaving themselves exposed.

I don''t think it is just an issue about strikers although Ameobi may well fit the bill, we need a goalscoring midfield threat too.

I do believe Fotheringham and Pattison will improve and provide a strong centre pairing over time and as confidence grows, that said, Glenn plainly approaches games with defensive set ups to get us into matches, grind the opposition down and then look to attack late on. This was the tactic at Scunthorpe and it may have similarly worked at Col U but for a freak goal. Listening to the radio yesterday it seems Hucks almost cost us defensively early on so his position as a match long cutting edge has to be called into question.

The comment from Salisbury about a centre half capable (as was Tiny) of passing the ball out of defence is also valid to this debate because having a cutting edge is also about incisive passing, certainly Ched''s running off the ball is another element of having an edge.

But we are not there yet. Solve this problem and Glenn will have his set-up. This is why I believe he appears to value Pattison above Tiny - he knows our defence is adequate but with the money he has available he needs the midfield bite and the powerful striker I hope he will look to bring in; and until that happens we will just have to keep playing as we are and hoping one or two goals are enough.

[lappinitup 629]

Anyone know how many goals have been scored by our midfielders this season ?

 

[Pete Raven 276]

Huckerby 3
Lappin 2
Chadwick 1
Croft 1
Fotheringham 1
Russell 1

Total: 9 (if you count Hucks), 6 if not (and only 3 if you discount the Barnet Cup game)

[lappinitup 629]

Thanks Pete. I should have said league games. I think those stats tell their own story !

 

[Desi Rascall 0]

I agree,its going to be very interesting to see where GR prioritises his squad building in January.

If it came to a straight choice i would choose Tiny Taylor over Matty Patty as we have got a fair bit of cover in midfield,whereas with Dublin reaching the end of his playing career,Doc and Shacks could do with a bit of competition.

Up front i think we should be able to keep ched here till the end of the season,he will learn more here than sitting in the man city reserves.

In an ideal world, i would be more than happy to retain the services of our current loanees until the end of the season (with a view to signing the M.V.Ps) and pinch taylor from under the noses of Q.P.R

[James Kent 0]

Yes good post and your comments are valued.  What I would say is that all good sides are built on a solid defence and if we can kepp clean sheets more often than not, then one or two goals will be enough to win most games.  That said I agree we need to be more creative and the lack of goals from midfield are a concnern.  Even if we are trying to win games by the odd goal we still need midfeilders to score because the strikers won''t always get that goal.  It''s interesting to note that none of Rusty, Fozzy, Pattison or Smith have scored and this is a problem.  The question is do we stick with the players or do we bring in a specilist goal scoring midfieler.  I think we have to stick with the players and hope that they will start scoring. 

[Green and Yellow 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

I have been one of the most positive posters on here for some time and particularly since Glenn Roeder was appointed.

Glenn is getting results from a group of players he was largely lumped with and that is massive credit to him.

In particular, Glenn has cut out the goals against and made us tougher and more resilient; but he has yet to get to grips with our long term problem although he is no doubt working on it.

That problem is our lack of a cutting edge, a threat, and a lack of goals.

The defence deserve great credit this season because they defend without a midfield adequately picking up clearences, strikers providing an outlet but most importantly of all a cutting edge which makes the opposition reticent about coming forwards and leaving themselves exposed.

I don''t think it is just an issue about strikers although Ameobi may well fit the bill, we need a goalscoring midfield threat too.

I do believe Fotheringham and Pattison will improve and provide a strong centre pairing over time and as confidence grows, that said, Glenn plainly approaches games with defensive set ups to get us into matches, grind the opposition down and then look to attack late on. This was the tactic at Scunthorpe and it may have similarly worked at Col U but for a freak goal. Listening to the radio yesterday it seems Hucks almost cost us defensively early on so his position as a match long cutting edge has to be called into question.

The comment from Salisbury about a centre half capable (as was Tiny) of passing the ball out of defence is also valid to this debate because having a cutting edge is also about incisive passing, certainly Ched''s running off the ball is another element of having an edge.

But we are not there yet. Solve this problem and Glenn will have his set-up. This is why I believe he appears to value Pattison above Tiny - he knows our defence is adequate but with the money he has available he needs the midfield bite and the powerful striker I hope he will look to bring in; and until that happens we will just have to keep playing as we are and hoping one or two goals are enough.

[/quote]

I agree with you on that point, but the previous village idiot left the club in such a state that all Roeder could do, which  he has achieved, is to stop the NCFC free fall by any means. Once he has consolidated NCFCs position in the league then he will move onto the long term plan.

It is only my opinion, but if the previous idiot had remained in charge NCFC may well have been dead and buried by now.

[lucky green trainers 0]

well considered post rude old.when it comes to NCFC, its the perenial problem - not enough money/ambition. however, it seems to me that roeder is a good judge of players - he''s certainly brought in some goodun''s and jetisonned the ''league 1''ers''.  also, the remaining first teamers are playing with confidence again.  great to see.    he keeps making noises about the board supporting him in jan window - lets hope so.

[Big Down Under 0]

Interesting post Rudolph. Tiny also supplied goals, which have been in short supply from our defence since Malky left. Currently our midfield seem to be putting themselves about and not disappearing during the games, which has helped the defence, but they don''t seem to be supplying much of an attacking threat either through goals scored or creatively building attacks. They are also often not available to a pass from defence, Doc or Shacks aren''t the best passers but if nobody is available to receive the ball, what option do they have but to hoof it? I''m sure Glenn will be addressing this, but its going to take him 2 or 3 transfer windows to properly rebuild the team as he would like. We have lots of deadwood to get rid of, for which we will get little cash back in return, so we must be patient with him. Just avoiding relegation this season will be a major achievement. I don''t believe we have a good ''spine'' to the team yet, but if we can get in Tiny, another CM and another striker (someone for Curo/Evans to play off) and sign Mo and Pattison on perms, it will be a great start!

[chicken 0]

I have been slaughtered for saying this before but I think loosing Svensson and McKenzie was always bad news. They might not have been the best but you knew you were going to get 10-15 goals a piece from them a season. And since Iwan had gone two seasons prior and everyone knew Ashton would go we had no long-term striker on the books.However I don''t think it is all about attack when it comes to scoring goals. The priority is not leaking any. The most depressing thing for me is goals like the one we let in against Plymouth right at the death when we should have had 11 men in the penalty area getting in the way of the ball.Sure we need to be more clynical in front of goal, but then when you have three strikers of note to choose from it will be tough, saying that with Dublin and Cureton you know you will always have a few good chances, and Mini Chedders seems as if he has at least got the ability to do some scoring damage.I am a bit miffed about Brown because in pre-season againts the Hammers he looked a good prospect - and all the talk up of Big Dave has been a bit of a let down. I don''t know what Roeder is thinking - or the paper by naming a guessed 6 players but I don''t think it is the exit door for them all - more the last chance saloon.I am not convinced about Spillaine being one otherwise why name him on the bench? I can understand Martin because at times he has quite clearly been half-arsed. But they are both young. I hope the papers were acting on good information otherwise they could be destroying some young mens carreers.

[Jonnyboy 0]

There have been several posts over the past three months about our lack of quality in the midfield being the main issue at carrow rd

I think Roeder has done the best job he can and his ''short term'' goals have definitely been achieved!!

He has got us to a good position (considering where we were), he''s wormed out the rot, and he has brought in several loanees and I have no doubt has a list of players he wants to sign on a permenant.

As of Jan 1st he moves into his ''Long term'' goals

I think that will me a big change in our Midfield and another striker

If he is able to get his wish list I think this ''Long time problem'' will have ended.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

I agree with this Rudolph just like I agreed when you posted a similar thing in August.

http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1011657/ShowPost.aspx

I would definitely prefer Pattison to sign above Taylor but obviously I would prefer both. Another striker would be the icing on the cake because even with all the water that has gone under the bridge since your August post scoring goals is still the problem and not the defence. What really amazes me is that so many people still don''t see this.

Happy Christmas Rude old [B]

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I agree with this Rudolph just like I agreed when you posted a similar thing in August.

http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1011657/ShowPost.aspx

I would definitely prefer Pattison to sign above Taylor but obviously I would prefer both. Another striker would be the icing on the cake because even with all the water that has gone under the bridge since your August post scoring goals is still the problem and not the defence. What really amazes me is that so many people still don''t see this.

Happy Christmas Rude old [B]

I beg to disagree Nutty.

The priority has always been a centre half. I am glad to see Doc and Shacks had a good game at Scunny but you can''t really suggest that ths central pairing are good enough to take us out of this league.

Regarding Pattison, yes he is a useful addition as a left sided midfielder but has hardly set the place alight for me. Perhaps if we bought a midfielder who could actually dominate the centre and not give the ball away we might spend enough time in the opposing half to actually score a goal.

Unless Santa has delivered a particularly hefty sack at Carrow Road this year, I can''t see where the cash is coming from to fullfil this wish list.

I''ve been watching old videos of the early ninties seasons this morning Nutty. I had forgotton that we once had players who could pass to someone in the same colour shirt.

 

 

 

[/quote]

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

What has really surprised me Nutty is that I was using the same Christmas Avatar back in August........that''s forward thinking for you!

[XXL16 0]

I would say creative is our big problem after Ian Crook left Norwich, but surely Glenn had injected the confidence and positive attitude, that the previous few manager cannot have; you can''t imagine we can have Hucks on the bench and no negative mood from him, Glenn did his job brilliantly.

Good players need money to buy them, so it''s not the manager''s problem, it''s board.

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Haven''t been on here since Christmas Eve and if ever there was a game to illustrate the point of this thread it was Charlton at home who we slaughtered 1-1.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Haven''t been on here since Christmas Eve and if ever there was a game to illustrate the point of this thread it was Charlton at home who we slaughtered 1-1.[/quote]

You are right Rudolph. But the ''Flat Earth Society'' would still have you believe we would have slaughtered them by a lot more than 1-1 if we had another centere half.

 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

You are right Rudolph. But the ''Flat Earth Society'' would still have you believe we would have slaughtered them by a lot more than 1-1 if we had another centere half.

Is that opposed to the (Fawning over Queen Delia, her Lovely Board and the Sheer Admirer''s of the Chief Exec Brigade?)........who sport Dame Edna Everidge sized Yellow an'' Greenie tinty speccys......Or Blinkered Yellowy Tinted Welding Masks? Whilst self-flagellating themselves into a fanatical frenzy - with a copy of the current club accounts.....[:|] 

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

You are right Rudolph. But the ''Flat Earth Society'' would still have you believe we would have slaughtered them by a lot more than 1-1 if we had another centere half.

Is that opposed to the (Fawning over Queen Delia, her Lovely Board and the Sheer Admirer''s of the Chief Exec Brigade?)........who sport Dame Edna Everidge sized Yellow an'' Greenie tinty speccys......Or Blinkered Yellowy Tinted Welding Masks? Whilst self-flagellating themselves into a fanatical frenzy - with a copy of the current club accounts.....[:|] 

[/quote]

Probably [:|]

I wonder what Queen Delia  and the Chief Exec make of our defence and our strike force.. wonder if they notice that while we defend quite well we seem unable to turn good possession into goals. Maybe you could have a word for me later Mello while I have a word with the Wolves fans for you.. deal?

Oh.. and you so should know by now that my welding goggles are slightly more yellow than a mere tint [8-|]

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Just incase some people still don''t believe it...it was there again today.

Huckerby = totally ineffectual and pathetic in defence.

Cureton = comes to life with the ball at his feet in the box - played well but, as usual, no decent service. He has got 8 goals though in a poor half season in a failing team.

Dublin = still better than what we have - but we need his ilk 10 years younger.

Evans = ditto Cureton only a young player who needs to keep his confidence.

Croft = flatters to deceive, he does great until the crucial moment then loses his bottle, abdicates responsibility or makes a poor decision: his final ball is often rubbish.

Brown = I have to finally conceed - he isn''t good enough for this league.

Strikhavka = Ditto Brown.

Ryan Jarvis = Haven''t we got a lot of quantity but where is the quality?

The midfield = plenty of bite but no bark.

Docherty played well today, I specifically watched him although I couldn''t see who was at fault for their goal (free header). Shackell couldn''t pass wind after a plate of sprouts let alone the ball to one of his own players. I remember Palace fans laughing at Shackells left back performance a few years back and the main reason was his inability to pass the ball......he hasn''t improved. The full backs today were as poor as they were good on Boxing Day.

We got a draw today because off the workrate of Doherty, Pattison and Russell plus the persistence of Cureton - the rest just went through the motions.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

You are right Rudolph. But the ''Flat Earth Society'' would still have you believe we would have slaughtered them by a lot more than 1-1 if we had another centere half.

Is that opposed to the (Fawning over Queen Delia, her Lovely Board and the Sheer Admirer''s of the Chief Exec Brigade?)........who sport Dame Edna Everidge sized Yellow an'' Greenie tinty speccys......Or Blinkered Yellowy Tinted Welding Masks? Whilst self-flagellating themselves into a fanatical frenzy - with a copy of the current club accounts.....[:|] 

[/quote]

Probably [:|]

I wonder what Queen Delia  and the Chief Exec make of our defence and our strike force.. wonder if they notice that while we defend quite well we seem unable to turn good possession into goals. Maybe you could have a word for me later Mello while I have a word with the Wolves fans for you.. deal?

Oh.. and you so should know by now that my welding goggles are slightly more yellow than a mere tint [8-|]

 

[/quote]

G''urn Nutster.....you knows you luv all that is hierarchy NCFC....Now, Polish dem goggles. You don''t wanna you to bump into reality.

[ZLF 274]

well it was our turn to be slaughtered 1-1 today;  glad for docs sake that it was shax who left keogh with a free header tho as doc would have been hounded out of norfolk for the same error.

Our strikers were poor today,  but this was the worst in terms of midfield service that I can remember all season;  we won the ball then gave it straight back.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Remiss of me not to mention Marshall''s two fine saves - one in each half.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

You are right Rudolph. But the ''Flat Earth Society'' would still have you believe we would have slaughtered them by a lot more than 1-1 if we had another centere half.

Is that opposed to the (Fawning over Queen Delia, her Lovely Board and the Sheer Admirer''s of the Chief Exec Brigade?)........who sport Dame Edna Everidge sized Yellow an'' Greenie tinty speccys......Or Blinkered Yellowy Tinted Welding Masks? Whilst self-flagellating themselves into a fanatical frenzy - with a copy of the current club accounts.....[:|] 

[/quote]

Probably [:|]

I wonder what Queen Delia  and the Chief Exec make of our defence and our strike force.. wonder if they notice that while we defend quite well we seem unable to turn good possession into goals. Maybe you could have a word for me later Mello while I have a word with the Wolves fans for you.. deal?

Oh.. and you so should know by now that my welding goggles are slightly more yellow than a mere tint [8-|]

 

[/quote]

G''urn Nutster.....you knows you luv all that is hierarchy NCFC....Now, Polish dem goggles. You don''t wanna you to bump into reality.

[/quote]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

 

[Mister Chops 7]

It is an issue of creativity and, for want of a better word, flair.  We won''t score more than 1 a game while our centre backs are playing hoofball up to two strikers who aren''t built like Crouch. 

Our current midfield reminds me of a puppy I once owned called Rufus.  When you had the ball, Rufus would snap and bite and do his best to tear it off you, but when you finally gave the ball to him, he just stood there looking confused and eventually gave it back because it was more fun getting it off you than doing anything else with it.

If you know what I mean.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

 

[/quote]

Tennis is probably your game Babes...

That explains so much [:|]

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

[/quote]

Tennis is probably your game Babes...

That explains so much [:|]

[/quote]

Dear old Nigel, you do have such a propensity for getting things wrong.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note my friend, what do you think are the prospects of the NCFC board adopting for 2008 a bolder vision coupled with a more aggressive posture?

OTBC 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

[/quote]

Tennis is probably your game Babes...

That explains so much [:|]

[/quote]

Dear old Nigel, you do have such a propensity for getting things wrong.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note my friend, what do you think are the prospects of the NCFC board adopting for 2008 a bolder vision coupled with a more aggressive posture?

OTBC 

 

 

[/quote]

I don''t understand what this thread has to do with the board. I thought it was about the our problems in scoring goals opposed to our ok defence. It seems to me that certain posters on here are so fixated by Delia and the Chief Exec that every thread has to be about them.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note what are your views on the fact that in the last 5 games we have only conceded 3 goals but only scored 5. Do you feel we should concentrate on strengthening the defence or look for more creativity in the midfield and another striking option beside Jamie?

Oh for a Centre Court .... I mean Half ....

Any one for tennis babes?

 

[Desi Rascall 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

[/quote]

Tennis is probably your game Babes...

That explains so much [:|]

[/quote]

Dear old Nigel, you do have such a propensity for getting things wrong.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note my friend, what do you think are the prospects of the NCFC board adopting for 2008 a bolder vision coupled with a more aggressive posture?

OTBC 

 

 

[/quote]

I don''t understand what this thread has to do with the board. I thought it was about the our problems in scoring goals opposed to our ok defence. It seems to me that certain posters on here are so fixated by Delia and the Chief Exec that every thread has to be about them.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note what are your views on the fact that in the last 5 games we have only conceded 3 goals but only scored 5. Do you feel we should concentrate on strengthening the defence or look for more creativity in the midfield and another striking option beside Jamie?

Oh for a Centre Court .... I mean Half ....

Any one for tennis babes?

 

[/quote]

 

nigel, you appear to be in a minority of one when it comes to people who don''t think we played better more creative football when taylor was here, and you attack those who were positive about his contribution to the side as "flat earthers".

Why?

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[quote user=" Desi Rascall"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Ho ho ho.

Game, set & match?

Ho ho ho.

OTBC

[/quote]

Tennis is probably your game Babes...

That explains so much [:|]

[/quote]

Dear old Nigel, you do have such a propensity for getting things wrong.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note my friend, what do you think are the prospects of the NCFC board adopting for 2008 a bolder vision coupled with a more aggressive posture?

OTBC 

 

 

[/quote]

I don''t understand what this thread has to do with the board. I thought it was about the our problems in scoring goals opposed to our ok defence. It seems to me that certain posters on here are so fixated by Delia and the Chief Exec that every thread has to be about them.

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

But on a more serious note what are your views on the fact that in the last 5 games we have only conceded 3 goals but only scored 5. Do you feel we should concentrate on strengthening the defence or look for more creativity in the midfield and another striking option beside Jamie?

Oh for a Centre Court .... I mean Half ....

Any one for tennis babes?

 

[/quote]

 

nigel, you appear to be in a minority of one when it comes to people who don''t think we played better more creative football when taylor was here, and you attack those who were positive about his contribution to the side as "flat earthers".

Why?

[/quote]

YOU''LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP IF YOU WISH TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE ''NUTSTER''!.....He''s usually got his earphones on, eyes tightly closed - and his inch thick lens yellowy tinty weldy goggles firmly attached - whilst listening at full volume to his compilation of the Chief Execs greatest quotes from interviews taped from the local media - and including his most favourite: Delia''s impassioned halftime Winnie Churchillian ''where are you?'' rallying call ''to the beshtest fans''........(on a continuous loop). [:P]

And the ''Nutster'' mocks us "flat earthers" as he truly believes that "This Island Earth".........Is square.