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ipswich buyout

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how many people admit to being in debt, well i have a friend whos a debt collector he told me a few things about debt, the only way debt gets wiped out is if through complete insolvecny and when theres no assets to be sold to recover the amount,now as a debt collector hes worked a few big debts, debt collectors buy debts off the firms who own the debts so that the company at least gets some money back rather then nothing, so evans bought the debt for 8 million, what he bought was 32million pounds to be owed to him plus all the rights to the profits of the club minus the rest of the of the shareholders, so actually hes done a shrewd bit of business as hes bought a club for 8 million, is guaranteed a return plus if it doesnt work he could easily wind the club down and close the business and sell the remaining assets which is players and youth players and make at least some of the 8 mill he spent back,this is how debt collectors make there money, they buy the debt very cheaply and then force full payment or closure,many business have complained about this practise being performed by marcus evans,at least this ont happen at our club

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I believe he will also be getting a yearly dividend if 600k or so. He has also stated that he will invest an extra 12m on the team, which will be used to bridge the profit/loss gap, and fund team purchases ie transfer fees, agents fees, signing on fees, and wages. Not really a huge amount. He will get the best return if they get promoted, which is what is getting the scummers all excited, but I don''t see him being a long term investor and I am sure he will take a quick profit which won''t help them remain in the premiership. I don''t see a rosy future for them either way.

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this is it, if they dont get promotion this year or next year i cant see him bankroll;ing them aby further, hell take a quick profit and then sell, or asset strip, after all this is how hes made his money

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Sorry to spoil your dreams, but Marcus Evans can''t reclaim any money from Town until we have spend 5 years in the premier league! So to say his in it for the short term would be rubbish, he can sell the club when he likes but the £32 debt can ONLY be sold for the price he gave for it, i.e £8m! Evans only wins if we get promotion, we only win if we get promotion, otherwise yeah in a couple of years certain players might be sold, but that has always happened at clubs the size of Ipswich and Norwich the better players eventually get sold! All in all our interests are very much protected and whilst it may not be the perfect deal (complete wiping out of the debt would have been ideal) we are now stable and can sign players for reasonable fees and wages!

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sorry to rain on ure parade but theres legal loop holes in every deal, marcus evans is a business man and hes only ever been in business for a profit, ure debt will always remain payable and the debt is 32 million to him, he now has every rite to do what the glazers did and take loans out against the club to reclaim that 32 million in a very quick order, so just watch out as this is likely to become a very messy deal for your club

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[quote user="clblue"]

Sorry to spoil your dreams, but Marcus Evans can''t reclaim any money from Town until we have spend 5 years in the premier league! So to say his in it for the short term would be rubbish, he can sell the club when he likes but the £32 debt can ONLY be sold for the price he gave for it, i.e £8m! Evans only wins if we get promotion, we only win if we get promotion, otherwise yeah in a couple of years certain players might be sold, but that has always happened at clubs the size of Ipswich and Norwich the better players eventually get sold! All in all our interests are very much protected and whilst it may not be the perfect deal (complete wiping out of the debt would have been ideal) we are now stable and can sign players for reasonable fees and wages!

[/quote]

Sorry, where is the "we" in this? Should the Town shareholders volunteer to pay the debt back early they would be be free to do so, surely!

Who are the Town shareholders? Marcus Wareing.

He is Town FC and he can do what he likes[:P]....he could even rename the club and move them somewhere nicer lol.

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My god bin boy you have got bit bad.

MEI own you, they can do exactly as they like.

" complete wiping out of the debt would have been ideal " - wiping out some of it might have been a step foward, as it is NOTHING has been wiped out apart from your shareholders investment.

Maybe that''s why mad jim is talking about loans not purchases this January.

ps in 2003 your red faced clown of a chairman said he would stand down once the club''s future was secured.  Is the club''s future not now secured as claimed ?

RIPswich


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Royal Anglian. if what you''re saying is true then why did NU not do this in order to recover some of their loan? they have a legal obligation to their shareholders to do this, are you suggesting they had this option and chose not to take it?

 

Also, if he''s simply an asset stripper then he could have just bought the debt and closed us down, why would he also invest £12m into the club, risk everything by asking for shareholder approval, and sign an agreement that the £12m would not be returned to him until we''d achieved 5 consecutive years in the Premiership. If he is, as you claim, a carpet bagger looking to make money then he could have done things a whole lot simpler, quicker and cheaper.

 

RA, would you accept that there is just an iota of resentment that we are no longer the financial basket case of the last 5 years..

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[quote user="clblue"]

Sorry to spoil your dreams, but Marcus Evans can''t reclaim any money from Town until we have spend 5 years in the premier league! So to say his in it for the short term would be rubbish, he can sell the club when he likes but the £32 debt can ONLY be sold for the price he gave for it, i.e £8m! Evans only wins if we get promotion, we only win if we get promotion, otherwise yeah in a couple of years certain players might be sold, but that has always happened at clubs the size of Ipswich and Norwich the better players eventually get sold! All in all our interests are very much protected and whilst it may not be the perfect deal (complete wiping out of the debt would have been ideal) we are now stable and can sign players for reasonable fees and wages!

[/quote]He doesn''t need to re-claim. He is the majority owner therefore he takes home a bigger slice of the proffit.Its called an investment and if it works he makes more from putting his money in Town than he would putting it in a bank. He doesn''t need to have the debt paid off because if he wants to he can sell it for £8million which is what he paid for it so he wouldn''t loose any money. This is a no loose situation for him.Does he care about the debt - no, does he care about the proffit - yes. The problem with that is he is in such a great position that if he doesnt fancy it and he can find someone to buy the debt - he wont hang about. And he doesn''t have to - he is not tied to the club in anyway. It has been made quite clear that he will be a "silent" owner.You can carry on believing what you like if you want but I would study some basic economics, no one would invest in anything if they were not to see a return of somesort before five years.Sure the debt does not have to repaid but as the majority share-holder he expects a return on that. The debt is not a problem to him as yous said - he can sell it for what he bought it for and he has the assets/money to absorb that debt. That is the "red herring" as they say.

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Firstly there was no risk in asking the shareholders, The majority holders had altready agreed so the great unwashed suffolk simpletons had no say in the matter.As to the supposed investment the £12m is going " to fund increased short-term losses including those arising from player wages." You have been losing around £3m a year. With no sell on money or loan notes you were pretty much looking at administration within months. Kid yourselves not, look at Cardiff, Coventry and Luton. Creditors are becoming less tolerant.The five year repayment is not as you erroneously spout. It is an obligation to buy back the £8.1m  " 7 per cent. preference shares" after five years in the Premiership. As MEI know, that it is a very unlikely event so they have simply lent you £8.1m at 7% with very little chance of you being able to buy yourself out of that debt.. For a further £3.9m MEI have taken control of 87% of your club with the option of taking out more dividends if THEY see fit.So in conclusion you are now paying out £600,000 a year where you were paying nothing (repayment holiday), you still owe £32m, you still owe £3.6m to other banks and you still will be paying " interest and capital repayments " to the various " the convertible loan notes ". And your numerous shareholders who invested nearly £2m a few years back now see their investments as virtually worthless.What have MEI gained ? They''ve lend the paupers £8.1m at 7% and this time the hapless fools have no choice in paying. They''ve bought the club for £3.9m - a steal even for that white elephant stuck in grubby, little suffolk. They can also easily wring a few quid out of the club in dividends in respect of that money as well.The £32m debt will continue to be owed and accrue further interest - a handy tax write off that will be traded on, as and when MEI have had their fill. I think there are six year old kids sewing footballs in India who have a better deal than what has been forced onto the paupers.RIPswich

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[quote user="Chabal"]

Royal Anglian. if what you''re saying is true then why did NU not do this in order to recover some of their loan? they have a legal obligation to their shareholders to do this, are you suggesting they had this option and chose not to take it?

 

Also, if he''s simply an asset stripper then he could have just bought the debt and closed us down, why would he also invest £12m into the club, risk everything by asking for shareholder approval, and sign an agreement that the £12m would not be returned to him until we''d achieved 5 consecutive years in the Premiership. If he is, as you claim, a carpet bagger looking to make money then he could have done things a whole lot simpler, quicker and cheaper.

 

RA, would you accept that there is just an iota of resentment that we are no longer the financial basket case of the last 5 years..

[/quote]

Chabal, would you accept that you don''t have just one little iota of worry that this mystery guy may not turn out to be the "Silver Saviour" of your dreams?

He appears to have no emotional link to you as a football club and his previous financial dealings must surely cause you some measure of concern.

It may all turn out o.k. for you but then again.......................

Only time will tell.

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no resentment at all as id be gutted if u were stripped right down as i love the derby matches, the 12 million investment isnt just to buy players, norwich union sold the debt for 8 mill as they werent getting enough back from ure club and wouldve been years before 8 mill paid back was reached, a lot of companies sell debt owed to them so they at least recover some of this debt, norwich union have done a valid bit of business, as for the investment of 12mill, do u not realise that the prem is now worth 60mill so to a money maker investing 12 mill to possibly recoup 60mill in the top flight is worth it, if you dont make any money and fail to get prem football itll be the clubs down fall, basically the guy has abought a company that is guaranteed to put money in his pocket and vastly improve his wealth if reached the big time for 20mill, now if u indeed fail to get prem he can quite easily recover that 20mill and plus with owning the club can ruin the club by demanding the 32 mill owed to him, and as he owns the club that will be by asset strippingits a well used method in modern business

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so wheres the evidence of this clause regarding not paying 12mill back until 5 years in prem have been consecutivly done, a friend of mine whos quite up in ure supporters association has just said she dont know where the consecutive year rumour has come into it,

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[quote user="Chabal"]

Royal Anglian. if what you''re saying is true then why did NU not do this in order to recover some of their loan? they have a legal obligation to their shareholders to do this, are you suggesting they had this option and chose not to take it?

 

Also, if he''s simply an asset stripper then he could have just bought the debt and closed us down, why would he also invest £12m into the club, risk everything by asking for shareholder approval, and sign an agreement that the £12m would not be returned to him until we''d achieved 5 consecutive years in the Premiership. If he is, as you claim, a carpet bagger looking to make money then he could have done things a whole lot simpler, quicker and cheaper.

 

RA, would you accept that there is just an iota of resentment that we are no longer the financial basket case of the last 5 years..

[/quote]

Why would he just close you down, you don''t have enough assets to make that viable, you don''t own your ground, you own no land, your only saleable assets are your players.  At the moment they are worth very little, in 2/3 years some of them could be worth big money.  That is when you see the real Evans.

12m, is he simply giving you that money or is he just putting it somewhere safe so it is working and therefore untouchable by the taxman.

There is resentment from this end, we would dearly love new wealthy owners.  Its just nice that you have got the new investor but all doesn''t quite add up.  After all we aren''t exactly friendly rivals are we.

Heres hoping it all goes tits up for the town.

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Very basically£8.1m at 7% hands EMI just under 600k a year£3.9 buys 87% of the club with a chance to wring out more money in dividendsThe club cannot be bought back until 5 years in the Premiership so it is stuck with paying the 600k whereas previously there was a payment holidayThe small shareholders have seen their investment whittled down to 12.5 % of it''s original valueGiven that the binners are losing over £3m year in year out the majority will be there to cover those losses, hence the talk of loans in January and given the drop in gates and income more will have to be held back.EMI get a return on their investment, a chance to help themselves to more as it suits and a nice little bit of tax jiggery pokery with the £32m.Let''s end with a quote from an ipswich fansite talking of sheepshank and the sellout -" No doubt a tear will appear in the corner of his eye as he tells us how

hard he has worked to put the Club back on track........and some will

no doubt lap it up. This is Suffolk after all. Anyone in a suit with a

cultured accent is trusted implicitly."

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As I understand this deal NU and a couple of banks wrote off their debts of 33 million against a payment of 8 million. Earlier in the year NU were going to totally write off there 25 million. So for them to eventually get 5 million or so without too much hassle from Canary fans was very welcome.

What is interesting is that it appears that the remaining debt of 25 million is still owed to Marcus Evans'' companies by ITFC. Whilst he can conveniently gradually write this off to reduce his tax liabilities (I think) BUT if ITFC suddenly make some decent profits then he could quite legitimately ensure the loan of 25 million is gradually repaid to him.  But what if ITFC get the huge Premier League lump sum payment upon promotion. Evans is in complete control so could presumably take this whole amount in repayment of his loan !!! Obviously much depends upon the terms of the loan. It will be fascinating to see how this develops particularly as Evans is very keen to remain in the background.

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Please, canaries, don''t let your bitterness consume you.  Yes, the Evans deal is far from perfect (I''d like to see at least one photograph of the guy who owns us) but here''s the thing: we owed 30mill to external groups which we couldn''t afford to pay. We now owe 30mill to internl groups - i.e. Marcus Evans. However he slices up the debts/tax benefits is his decision. What is clear is that when the NU interest payment holiday ran out we would have been in serious trouble. Garvan, Haynes, Lee, etc. would have to have been sold. Now we don''t have to sell anybody and are in a position where we can buy players. So, undeniably, in terms of this season, the here and now, we are in  better position with Evans on board. We got to 6th position playing good football without him... who knows where his money will take us?

 

 

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[quote user="IanGale"]

Please, canaries, don''t let your bitterness consume you.  Yes, the Evans deal is far from perfect (I''d like to see at least one photograph of the guy who owns us) but here''s the thing: we owed 30mill to external groups which we couldn''t afford to pay. We now owe 30mill to internl groups - i.e. Marcus Evans. However he slices up the debts/tax benefits is his decision. What is clear is that when the NU interest payment holiday ran out we would have been in serious trouble. Garvan, Haynes, Lee, etc. would have to have been sold. Now we don''t have to sell anybody and are in a position where we can buy players. So, undeniably, in terms of this season, the here and now, we are in  better position with Evans on board. We got to 6th position playing good football without him... who knows where his money will take us?

[/quote]

Fair point, probably the only deal in town (lol) in the short term. Beggars can''t be choosers in this situation.

You''ll soon get used to this board if you post again - many posters will take a nugget of info from a situation where the facts arn''t public and they don''t really understand and build a massive doomsday scenario out of it.

Oh, and some are so desparate to get rid of Delia that they would have taken the Evans deal!!

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Thing is Bigfish has conveniently missed the point that nothing much has changed other than they now will be paying £600,000 in dividends that they previously weren''t, and their small shareholders have been stiffed totally.When this scam was first announced the pitchfork jugglers were squeaking in delight at the thought that all the debts were to be cleared and milions upon millions were to be available for the team. Now the bleak reality has hit home and no debts have been cleared, in fact payments are to be increased and mad jim and muttley are both talking about loans in the transfer window instead life may not be so rosy now for our impoverished neighbours.RIPswich

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[quote user="BigFish"][quote user="IanGale"]

Please, canaries, don''t let your bitterness consume you.  Yes, the Evans deal is far from perfect (I''d like to see at least one photograph of the guy who owns us) but here''s the thing: we owed 30mill to external groups which we couldn''t afford to pay. We now owe 30mill to internl groups - i.e. Marcus Evans. However he slices up the debts/tax benefits is his decision. What is clear is that when the NU interest payment holiday ran out we would have been in serious trouble. Garvan, Haynes, Lee, etc. would have to have been sold. Now we don''t have to sell anybody and are in a position where we can buy players. So, undeniably, in terms of this season, the here and now, we are in  better position with Evans on board. We got to 6th position playing good football without him... who knows where his money will take us?

[/quote]

Fair point, probably the only deal in town (lol) in the short term. Beggars can''t be choosers in this situation.

You''ll soon get used to this board if you post again - many posters will take a nugget of info from a situation where the facts arn''t public and they don''t really understand and build a massive doomsday scenario out of it.

Oh, and some are so desparate to get rid of Delia that they would have taken the Evans deal!!

[/quote]

 

You are correct bigfish we couldn''t be to choosy, very rarely in buisness are major deals 100% the way you would want them, there is always give and take from both sides and this deal is no different! Overall though we are in a far stronger position to compete in this division than we were beforehand so it''s a good deal for us!

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