Players over £1million.......

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Shoot me down if you like but i believe that under the current board we have only twice paid over £1million for a player. Ashton- the £1.5million downpayment funded by the non-redemption of the "B" preference shares, and Earnshaw who was bought using less than half the money received from selling Ashton.

Is it really a suprise that we won`t go up to a million or so for Taylor? You`d be forgiven for thinking there was some sort of policy in place........

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Shoot me down if you like but i believe that under the current board we have only twice paid over £1million for a player. Ashton- the £1.5million downpayment funded by the non-redemption of the "B" preference shares, and Earnshaw who was bought using less than half the money received from selling Ashton.

Is it really a suprise that we won`t go up to a million or so for Taylor? You`d be forgiven for thinking there was some sort of policy in place........

[/quote]

Cheap and cheerfull is the policy, Mr. Carrow.

We might balance the books but the price could be that we could fall out of the championship.

Without properly financing the playing side we have no hope of regaining our former position in the game.

[NegativeVibes 0]

If we sold Doherty/Shackell for 2.5 million than we would get Taylor and Taylor only.

Like that would happen though.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="NegativeVibes"]

If we sold Doherty/Shackell for 2.5 million than we would get Taylor and Taylor only.

Like that would happen though.

[/quote]

Its nearly christmas mate, not April Fools Day.

[blahblahblah 2]

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_transfers_Summer_2007 :Only 9 clubs out of the 24 in the league paid 1 million + for a transfer during this years'' summer transfer window.Only 18 players transferred to championship teams cost a transfer fee of 1 million +.How many players out of the list below would we be interested in ?   Are they any better than "cheaper" players in this league, or were their contracts just longer ?  How many have made a genuine impact in this Championship season ?Luke Varney - Crewe - Charlton 2mZheng Zhi - Shangdong Luneng - Charlton 2 mIzale McCleod - MK Dons - Charlton 1.1 mCaleb Folan - Wigan Ath - Hull City 1 mStephen Clemence - Birmingham - Leicester 1 mDJ Campbell - Birmingham - Leicester 2.1 mDarren Carter - WBA - Preston 1.25 mGary Naysmith - Everton - Sheff Utd 1mJames Beattie - Everton - Sheff Utd 4mWayne Thomas - Burnley - Southampton 1 mJobi MacAnuff - Crystal Palace - Watford 1.75 mNathan Ellington - WBA - Watford 3.25 mCraig Beattie - Celtic - WBA 1.25 mLeon Barnett - Luton - WBA 2.5 mJames Morrison - Middelsborough - WBA 1.5 mPedro Pele - Southampton - WBA 1 mChris Brunt - Sheff Wed - WBA 3 mFreddy Eastwood - Southend - Wolves 1.5 mP.S. 2.1 million for DJ Campbell ?  What was Malcolm Allen on ?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

To be fair Blah, i am trying to point out the bigger picture over the 12 years (?) the board have been in charge rather than just get bogged down in the minutae of the last few months. Don`t think any of those clubs are below us though which would suggest that their approach to team strengthening works better than ours? And some, of course, will land a promotion worth £50m at the end of the season which we have never had a sniff of since we came back down.

[T07 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Is it really a suprise that we won`t go up to a million or so for Taylor? You`d be forgiven for thinking there was some sort of policy in place........

[/quote]The policy at most clubs (cenrtainly at Norwich) is that the value of any playing, incoming or outgoing is set by the the board and the coaching staff together..... for obvious reasonsTherefore I assume you''ll be starting a thread slating GR & LC for wanting to run the club on the cheap? I look forward to reading it.Personally I think the valuation of Taylor was about right. I reckon the board were right not to get sucked into a bidding war (remember he''s gone nowhere just yet......), especially when he''s not the only prospect we''ve been considering.

[blahblahblah 2]

The problem is that the phrase "million pound transfer" becomes meaningless when you can get in players who can have a bigger impact at this level on a Bosman, a loan, or a free. For example, Varney (2m) and Eastwood (1.5 m) have scored 3 league goals each so far this season. Chris Iwelumo, who signed on a free from Colchester, has scored 9 goals so far this season.What I''d like to see is the club budgeting for the top 6 rather than budgeting for mid-table, in terms of player wages, which is the main part of the cost of signing a player.  Where the money comes from to allow the club to do that, I don''t know.  The only way I can see that happening is over the long term creation of wealth through related businesses, unless there''s someone out there willing to take a gamble every season with 5 million pounds on odds of 3-1, 5 million being the difference in wages per season between us and Charlton in all likelihood, and 3-1 being the chances of us getting promoted after spending the cash.  It''s a bit of a gamble, and you''d have to be a rich man to take it.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]P.S. 2.1 million for DJ Campbell ?  What was Malcolm Allen on ?[/quote]

Don''t know what Martin Allen was on either [:P]

[7rew 0]

intresting statistics... Does it not mean that this board achieved promotion to the premiership with out signing any players for over £1m?  And that every player that has really wanted to play for us cost under 1m.And that every player that has won player of the season cost under 1m.well I could go on.  and no I am not surpired that we have not (yet) offered the 1.25m for Taylor. Depending on what other players cost I would also not be surprised if we still do.

[breaker2 0]

I am obviously concerned that Taylor hasnt been signed up, but if Roeder has been given a certain figure he is allowed to use in January then one would assume he is having to try to spread it over as many of the cracks as possible.

Pattison and Cameras loans could either be extended or could be signed on frees (if their clubs allow it)

Evans'' loan may be able to be continued, but im not sure if Smiths will.

We have scored three goals in the last three games, and have let in one. Of the three goals, one was an OG the other 2 scored by Evans. I think we are weak up front, and this is an area that needs adressing, in the midfield i think we have a reasonable level of quality, and at the back minus Taylor i think we are 2-3 players short (not including Camera)..

Obviously we were looking to extend Taylors loan til Jan, and try and agree as smaller price as we could, I think come January we may have decided on any other potential tagets or casulaties from the squad, and so hopefully our transfers should be carried out swiftly and not left till the 13th hour!

Richard Hughes, Joe Garner or Aaron Mclean, Taylor, Camera, Pattison, Evans, Russel Anderson and Shola Ameobi wouldnt be too bad!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_transfers_Summer_2007 :

Only 9 clubs out of the 24 in the league paid 1 million + for a transfer during this years'' summer transfer window.
Only 18 players transferred to championship teams cost a transfer fee of 1 million +.

How many players out of the list below would we be interested in ?   Are they any better than "cheaper" players in this league, or were their contracts just longer ?  How many have made a genuine impact in this Championship season ?

Luke Varney - Crewe - Charlton 2m
Zheng Zhi - Shangdong Luneng - Charlton 2 m
Izale McCleod - MK Dons - Charlton 1.1 m

Caleb Folan - Wigan Ath - Hull City 1 m

Stephen Clemence - Birmingham - Leicester 1 m
DJ Campbell - Birmingham - Leicester 2.1 m

Darren Carter - WBA - Preston 1.25 m

Gary Naysmith - Everton - Sheff Utd 1m
James Beattie - Everton - Sheff Utd 4m

Wayne Thomas - Burnley - Southampton 1 m

Jobi MacAnuff - Crystal Palace - Watford 1.75 m
Nathan Ellington - WBA - Watford 3.25 m

Craig Beattie - Celtic - WBA 1.25 m
Leon Barnett - Luton - WBA 2.5 m
James Morrison - Middelsborough - WBA 1.5 m
Pedro Pele - Southampton - WBA 1 m
Chris Brunt - Sheff Wed - WBA 3 m

Freddy Eastwood - Southend - Wolves 1.5 m

P.S. 2.1 million for DJ Campbell ?  What was Malcolm Allen on ?


[/quote]

Watford West Brom and Charlton arent doing to badly this season????  or am I mistaken BlahBlahBlah...  Beattie has one or two goals.

Taylor seemed to be stabilising our defense, if I am not mistaken.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]

Watford West Brom and Charlton arent doing to badly this season???? 

or am I mistaken BlahBlahBlah...  Beattie has one or two goals.

Taylor seemed to be stabilising our defense, if I am not mistaken.[/quote]

Agreed CJF - The tails side of that coin being Leicester, Southampton, and Preston.  Spending money is not a guarantee of success.  Beattie has 14 goals this season, well worth the 4 million in my opinion, a class act at this level.  However.  The point I''m trying to make is that the headline transfer figure is no longer a quality benchmark, I''m not convinced it ever was - player wages account for more expense than transfer fees in nearly all cases.  And Taylor not signing isn''t about us not paying a fee anyway, it''s about QPR wanting Taylor + Vine as a package for 2.5 million, and Birmingham wanting money for transfers.  Taylors'' situation was never going to be resolved quickly in that circumstance, we''ll have to wait till Jan to see.I''d be very happy to see Taylor here in January, he''d make an excellent defensive partner for Doherty, with Shackell available for cover.  But if he does become too expensive, I''m sure there are other irons in the fire, other contacts that GR will use.

[Danny G 0]

Didn''t the Doc cost us 1 million ?

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="Danny G"]Didn''t the Doc cost us 1 million ?[/quote]

Fee was undisclosed

 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

This seasons ''million'' - is last seasons £500,000.........[:|]

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Danny G"]Didn''t the Doc cost us 1 million ?[/quote]

I don''t think he did, don''t think it was too far off though.

[whoareyou? 0]

No mention of Billy Sharp in that list. What happened to the £2 million fee we agreed to pay Scunthorpe in the summer?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

[quote user="Danny G"]Didn''t the Doc cost us 1 million ?[/quote]

I don''t think he did, don''t think it was too far off though.

[/quote]

£750,000 i believe?

[yellow hammer 0]

One thing that has not been mentioned in the Taylor debate, is whether personal terms have been discussed with the player and if City are prepared to meet his wage demands. Any takers on this?

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Shoot me down if you like but i believe that under the current board we have only twice paid over £1million for a player. Ashton- the £1.5million downpayment funded by the non-redemption of the "B" preference shares, and Earnshaw who was bought using less than half the money received from selling Ashton.

Is it really a suprise that we won`t go up to a million or so for Taylor? You`d be forgiven for thinking there was some sort of policy in place........

[/quote]

I have no wish to shoot you down Mr. Carrow. I would suggest, however, that it would hardly be surprising if there is such a policy in place, unless there is a belief that we can recruit a player that we will have no difficulty making a profit on, and even there it''s a risk should some serious injury occur. You have spent considerable time pointing out over the past year why our club should be spending more. Coventry, of course, were 30 minutes away from administration. I found the article ( by a professional accountant ) speaaking about Coventry and the risk of Championship clubs spending beyond their means very interesting, so I include the shortcut here for your interest. http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8669_2976915,00.html

I also cannot help but wonder if there is a financial angle to the poor form recently of Watford, who many posters on here had running away with this division with ease. Having taken only 8 points out of 27 since the beginning of November, their assistant manager Keith Burkinshaw now leaving suddenly ( admittedly the reasons indicated are family health issues ) with no talk about a leave of absence etc, Adrian Boothroyd indicating he would love to be considered for a coaching role in the England set-up, it does make one wonder if there are other issues at Watford not readily transparent at the moment. 

Of course, spending doesn''t always give a club what they hope for. Look at the promoted clubs from last season to date. Sunderland has spent big ( wasn''t it 16 or 17 million on just two players ). Doesn''t appear to be helping them much. Same thing with Derby. Some of the players these clubs spent the big money on can''t even make the first team at the moment. Incidentally, if Earnshaw does go back to Cardiff, how much of a loss do you think Derby are likely to make on the deal, particularly given that they also received very little benefit from his services.

If professional accountants involved with football are pointing out the significant risks in Championship clubs spending beyond their means, and if the evidence of clubs reaching for the brass ring ( by spending big ) and, more importantly, holding on to it, suggests it''s a greasy, slippery slide more likely to go wrong than right, then  I''m more inclined to trust the judgement of people who are accountable for responsible spending in Championship clubs than posters who suggest we should be spending possibly more than we can afford.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote] No mention of Billy Sharp in that list. What happened to the £2 million fee we agreed to pay Scunthorpe in the summer?[/quote]He joined Sheff Utd for an undisclosed fee.  It seems to be the fashion these days. 

[blahblahblah 2]

An interesting article Yankee.  For those who haven''t clicked...

[quote]"Before the first ball of the season was kicked, I warned that the

Championship had become a pressure cooker and that this situation might

arise.

"In the close season, the banks had already clearly become

concerned about the level of debt they were exposed to among

Championship clubs. We believed even then that the banks were unwilling

to extend club overdrafts, not that the clubs were adopting a more

cautious approach to their finances.

"Since then the credit crunch has hit the banks and football

clubs looking to increase their borrowing without the TV revenues

available to Premier League clubs are not going to get a positive

response.

"The frightening thing is that with such a large percentage of

Championship clubs not expecting to make a profit, there may be more

facing the prospect of administration, and the automatic 10-point

deduction that follows, before the end of the season.

"As a lifelong football fan, it gives me no pleasure to be

proved right, but I argued at the beginning of the season that spending

beyond their means was a high-risk strategy.

"The Premier League status that Championship clubs are fighting

for is a glittering prize but the investment gamble only ever pays off

for three clubs a season."

[/quote]That said, while the penalty for administration is only 10 points, and while non-footballing creditors continue to recieve derisory sums ( a penny in the pound from Leeds if I recall correctly), some clubs will treat it as an occupational hazard as opposed to something to be avoided at all costs.

[BigFish 1,986]

I know the point you are making but feel you have strayed a little off-piste with this one. NCFC have never been big purchasers but that did not previously prevent a healthier position on the pitch. Once upon a time we had players coming through the youth setup capable of making the step up to the first team (Fox, Sutton, Eadie, O''Neill, Bellamy, Gordon, Fashanu) and for some reason that has dried up. To these we added raids on top tier reserves (Spurs - Bowen, Crook, Culverhouse what steals!, Watson ), raids on teams in our peer group (Newsome, Woods, Butterworth, Roberts), lower leagues (Bruce, Drinkell, Ward) and veterans still able to do a job (Channon, Peters and to prove we can still do it Dion).

Now the fact this is no longer happening may be structural ("football has changed") but looks to me a football failing. We are not picking up players and developing them. There is a suggestion that we can but ready made products of the list of million pound transfers not many are pulling up any trees. Not many complaints on this board about Sharp for example. Here Scunthorpe did what we used to - buy a promising reserve for £250k and sell him on for ten times the amount a season or so later. And Sheff United showed the risk of what you suggest; buying big to struggle in mid-table with a misfiring overrated striker.

Dean Ashton also illustrates the pros & cons of buying big. If the tales were true and Crewe wanted +£7m for him close season but couldn''t get the takers so we got him cheap in the window we did good business but it may have cost us relegation. Equally we could have paid the full wack and fell victim to his long standing injury record, got relegated lost the cash. Scarey stuff, but it illustrates these things are never cut and dried.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]intresting statistics...

Does it not mean that this board achieved promotion to the premiership with out signing any players for over £1m? 
And that every player that has really wanted to play for us cost under 1m.
And that every player that has won player of the season cost under 1m.

well I could go on.  and no I am not surpired that we have not (yet) offered the 1.25m for Taylor. Depending on what other players cost I would also not be surprised if we still do.
[/quote]

Yes, we secured promotion without any £1m players-largely thanks to the the share issues through which the fans paid for Huckerby, Mckenzie and Svensson and lead directly to the boards` only £1m+ signings-Ashton and Earnshaw.

How many £1m+ players would have been happy to join us? We were linked with Koumas,Sidwell,Eastwood and Halford when we were relegated and yet as soon as the reported asking price was £1m+ it all went quiet. And we ended up with those wonderfully worthwhile bargain basement signings- Jarrett, Colin, Thorne and Hughes (£750k combined). The usual false economy.

And every team that has ever been relegated has had a player of the season......[:|]

[ZLF 274]

How many players have city ever signed for more than £1m irrespective of the board?

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

How many players have city ever signed for more than £1m irrespective of the board?

 

[/quote]

this is 10 years on matey!  Prices go up!

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

How many players have city ever signed for more than £1m irrespective of the board?

 

[/quote]I think that before Earnshaw and Ashton, Newsome was the record signing on 1 million exactly.  So 3 ?

[7rew 0]

True - I was just suggestring that often statistics are meaningless, especially transfer fees.  Chelsea signed the captain of the Germany team for less than £1m.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="7rew"]True - I was just suggestring that often statistics are meaningless, especially transfer fees.  Chelsea signed the captain of the Germany team for less than £1m.
[/quote]

Yes, the point you and Blah make is perfectly valid, good players can be picked up on the cheap and i actually fully back the club in keeping their eyes open for such bargains. But an expensive player can still be a bargain. Hucks would have been a bargain at triple the price and we would not have signed him if the fans hadn`t coughed up. Crouch or Ashton could well have been bargains if signed before the Prem seasons as they could well have kept us up. Both later proved to be bargains anyway as they were sold on for big profits. Does recent history show the club are willing to push the boat out for such players? Isn`t this Taylor business another indication that they are not?