Gary Doherty - Man of the Match

Whats a right winger · December 16, 2007

I can guarantee that NCFC will not improve while this lumbering oaf is still at the club... people who pay this guys wages make a mockery of professional football.

Well we can safely say that isn''t you as you contribute nothing financial, or anything else, to keeping the club afloat

nutty nigel · December 17, 2007

"I thought Doc (Doherty) did particularly well," said Roeder, quizzed as to how he felt the reunited Doherty-Shackell show did at Layer Road.

"He (Doherty) had played three games for me now and overall, he''s been outstanding. He''s more than capable of being a good player in the Championship," added the City chief, who got the nod on that front from one of Peter Grant''s old pals - Wolves boss Mick McCarthy.

"Mick said to me a few weeks ago that Doc won''t let you down - he knows him obviously from his days with the Republic of Ireland - and Doc hasn''t. He hasn''t let himself down or the team. And with his experience he''s an important player to play alongside Shacks (Shackell)."

So... now we can add Smudgers name to that list of people who really know better than the last three Norwich managers. Come on cluck, come back here and join in too. Wizard, Smudger and babes.... awesome! You''re all in good company now!

Who do we listen to.. do we trust what we see.. or is the Doc really a disgrace to the yellow and green shirt...

You decide.

silver fox · December 17, 2007

Nutty Nigel:

"I thought Doc (Doherty) did particularly well," said Roeder, quizzed as to how he felt the reunited Doherty-Shackell show did at Layer Road. Roeder is not going to say otherwise in public."He (Doherty) had played three games for me now and overall, he''s been outstanding. He''s more than capable of being a good player in the Championship," added the City chief, who got the nod on that front from one of Peter Grant''s old pals - Wolves boss Mick McCarthy. As above - If McCarthy thinks he is that good why doesn''t he sign him in January."Mick said to me a few weeks ago that Doc won''t let you down - he knows him obviously from his days with the Republic of Ireland - and Doc hasn''t. He hasn''t let himself down or the team. And with his experience he''s an important player to play alongside Shacks (Shackell)." Maybe because apart from Dublin there isn''t anyone else to play in central defence. You might not have noticed but it has been a couple of years since he was last picked for his national side.

So... now we can add Smudgers name to that list of people who really know better than the last three Norwich managers. Come on cluck, come back here and join in too. Wizard, Smudger and babes.... awesome! You''re all in good company now!

Who do we listen to.. do we trust what we see.. or is the Doc really a disgrace to the yellow and green shirt...

You decide. He isn''t a disgrace because he always puts in 100% effort, and plays to the best of his ability. Unfortunately in my opinion he has very little ability and would be better suited to a team that prefer to hoof the ball out of defence. The one thing that annoys me more than anything is that he always has to put his arms around his opponent, and invariably gives away a free kick, often in dangerous positions.

The bottom line is that if Roeder still had Taylor he would play Shackell alongside him, and not Doherty.

Buncey · December 17, 2007

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="silver fox"]How about a reality check, there was no man of the match for city as they all played as poor as each other. Doherty and Shackell looked nervous up against a 41 yr old forward. Any other team would have had a field day against those two. I am still amazed that Roeder doesn''t put Dublin alongside Shackell until he either gets Taylor or another decent centre half.[/quote]

Good points Silver Fox... without a player to organise the defence and play the ball out from the back a little it will be a very hard long winter.

The Doc has always been a disgrace to the yellow & green shirt in my opinion and slicing the ball high in to the Essex night air at every opportunity last night just shows exactly why players of his ilk ain''t fit to waer the shirt.

The match was no better than two pub teams kicking lumps out of each other on your local park, but yet again a good majority of fans are looking for any excuse to find positives in yet another awful performance.

I can guarantee that NCFC will not improve while this lumbering oaf is still at the club... people who pay this guys wages make a mockery of professional football.

[/quote]Smudge. For once you absoultely spot on.

nutty nigel · December 17, 2007

So if he fouls more than his colleagues I can only assume that as the freekicks aren''t given he bribes the ref too. I really don''t understand this hatred of the Doc, it''s a sad state we find ourselves in when fans have to scapegoat good honest players in that way. The reason Roeder loaned Taylor in the first place was because the Doc was injured. You assume that Doc wouldn''t play if we still had Taylor and yet the only time Roeder had them both available he dropped Shackell. The last three Norwich managers have played him out of choice in front of any other alternatives they have. The facts prove conclusively we concede least goals with Doherty in defence. He doesn''t hoof the ball out of defence any more than any other defender including Taylor and has more assists than any of them including two in the last two away games. Why don''t you either produce the evidence to the contrary or admit that you just don''t like the guy despite his performances.

Grant, Roeder, Dublin, Shackell, Murray have all come out in support of Doherty in public but you believe it''s because they have no choice and really they are Babes, Wizard, Smudger and you in disguise [H]

albyella · December 17, 2007

Sorry, but for me he looked completely out of his depth - slow to turn, was floundering at times and why can''t he pass when there''s no pressure - just the obligatory "hoof". He looked tired and lost - ok, he made "that block" and he assisted up front, but overall he scares me when he is on a one-to-one......

First Wizard · December 17, 2007

[quote user="Fellas"]What game were you guys watching?!
[/quote]

Totally agree, he''s a bloody liability at the best of times, and always likely to give free kicks away in dangerous positions. Get rid.

Citizen Journalist Foghorn · December 17, 2007

IMO Doc is an ok centre back at this level, however 4 seasons of a dismal goals against column do not lie. The Doc-Shax pairing aint gonna get us out of this division. Taylor along with one of these might.

Shame we are unwilling to pay the going rate for such an influential player.

silver fox · December 17, 2007

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So if he fouls more than his colleagues I can only assume that as the freekicks aren''t given he bribes the ref too. I really don''t understand this hatred of the Doc, it''s a sad state we find ourselves in when fans have to scapegoat good honest players in that way. The reason Roeder loaned Taylor in the first place was because the Doc was injured. You assume that Doc wouldn''t play if we still had Taylor and yet the only time Roeder had them both available he dropped Shackell. The last three Norwich managers have played him out of choice in front of any other alternatives they have. The facts prove conclusively we concede least goals with Doherty in defence. He doesn''t hoof the ball out of defence any more than any other defender including Taylor and has more assists than any of them including two in the last two away games. Why don''t you either produce the evidence to the contrary or admit that you just don''t like the guy despite his performances. Would that be the same Taylor that brings the ball down to his feet and distributes it out to other players. I guess you haven''t actually seen Taylor play for Norwich, and the two goals he has scored. Did you watch the game on Saturday when there were several examples of Doherty giving free kicks away, even as far up as the half way line.

Grant, Roeder, Dublin, Shackell, Murray have all come out in support of Doherty in public but you believe it''s because they have no choice and really they are Babes, Wizard, Smudger and you in disguise [H] Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personally I prefer Dublin and Shackell given the choice for central defenders. If you believe Doherty to be our best defender then so be it, I still believe he is a liability when he plays.

[/quote]

nutty nigel · December 17, 2007

[quote user="silver fox"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So if he fouls more than his colleagues I can only assume that as the freekicks aren''t given he bribes the ref too. I really don''t understand this hatred of the Doc, it''s a sad state we find ourselves in when fans have to scapegoat good honest players in that way. The reason Roeder loaned Taylor in the first place was because the Doc was injured. You assume that Doc wouldn''t play if we still had Taylor and yet the only time Roeder had them both available he dropped Shackell. The last three Norwich managers have played him out of choice in front of any other alternatives they have. The facts prove conclusively we concede least goals with Doherty in defence. He doesn''t hoof the ball out of defence any more than any other defender including Taylor and has more assists than any of them including two in the last two away games. Why don''t you either produce the evidence to the contrary or admit that you just don''t like the guy despite his performances. Would that be the same Taylor that brings the ball down to his feet and distributes it out to other players. I guess you haven''t actually seen Taylor play for Norwich, and the two goals he has scored. Did you watch the game on Saturday when there were several examples of Doherty giving free kicks away, even as far up as the half way line.

Grant, Roeder, Dublin, Shackell, Murray have all come out in support of Doherty in public but you believe it''s because they have no choice and really they are Babes, Wizard, Smudger and you in disguise [H] Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personally I prefer Dublin and Shackell given the choice for central defenders. If you believe Doherty to be our best defender then so be it, I still believe he is a liability when he plays.

[/quote][/quote]

For sure everybody is entitled to their opinion, thats what this messageboard is for. But facts are facts none the less.

Roeder did say that Doherty had been outstanding and it''s only your opinion that he was lying.

McCarthey obviously did tell Roeder that The Doc wouldn''t let him down and as Doherty is first choice here under yet another manager I would suggest that McCarthey would have no chance of signing him in January.

The only time Roeder has had Taylor and Doherty available together Shackell was dropped to the bench so your opinion is clearly not right in assuming he would play Taylor and Shackell given the choice.

If Doherty fouls more than Shackell, Dublin or Taylor then the stats will prove it. If his distribution is worse then the stats will prove it. I suggest his mistakes get noticed more.

I feel sorry for Doherty, but I also accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have seen may catastrophic mistakes from him over the last few seasons but I have seen a lot more examples of good defending. When I come back from away games any goal we concede is always Docs fault on here. Yet Doc rarely loses his man and he''s usually trying to cover someone elses mistake. Dublin loses his man more than any of the others but it never gets mentioned. Dublin is a centreforward and Dohertyy is a centreback. That''s why every Norwich manager has always preferred Doherty to Dublin when given the choice. But while these are my just my opinions, myself and others have dragged the facts onto this board many times to back them up.

silver fox · December 17, 2007

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="silver fox"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So if he fouls more than his colleagues I can only assume that as the freekicks aren''t given he bribes the ref too. I really don''t understand this hatred of the Doc, it''s a sad state we find ourselves in when fans have to scapegoat good honest players in that way. The reason Roeder loaned Taylor in the first place was because the Doc was injured. You assume that Doc wouldn''t play if we still had Taylor and yet the only time Roeder had them both available he dropped Shackell. The last three Norwich managers have played him out of choice in front of any other alternatives they have. The facts prove conclusively we concede least goals with Doherty in defence. He doesn''t hoof the ball out of defence any more than any other defender including Taylor and has more assists than any of them including two in the last two away games. Why don''t you either produce the evidence to the contrary or admit that you just don''t like the guy despite his performances. Would that be the same Taylor that brings the ball down to his feet and distributes it out to other players. I guess you haven''t actually seen Taylor play for Norwich, and the two goals he has scored. Did you watch the game on Saturday when there were several examples of Doherty giving free kicks away, even as far up as the half way line.

Grant, Roeder, Dublin, Shackell, Murray have all come out in support of Doherty in public but you believe it''s because they have no choice and really they are Babes, Wizard, Smudger and you in disguise [H] Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personally I prefer Dublin and Shackell given the choice for central defenders. If you believe Doherty to be our best defender then so be it, I still believe he is a liability when he plays.

[/quote][/quote]

For sure everybody is entitled to their opinion, thats what this messageboard is for. But facts are facts none the less.

Roeder did say that Doherty had been outstanding and it''s only your opinion that he was lying.

McCarthey obviously did tell Roeder that The Doc wouldn''t let him down and as Doherty is first choice here under yet another manager I would suggest that McCarthey would have no chance of signing him in January.

The only time Roeder has had Taylor and Doherty available together Shackell was dropped to the bench so your opinion is clearly not right in assuming he would play Taylor and Shackell given the choice.

If Doherty fouls more than Shackell, Dublin or Taylor then the stats will prove it. If his distribution is worse then the stats will prove it. I suggest his mistakes get noticed more.

I feel sorry for Doherty, but I also accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have seen may catastrophic mistakes from him over the last few seasons but I have seen a lot more examples of good defending. When I come back from away games any goal we concede is always Docs fault on here. Yet Doc rarely loses his man and he''s usually trying to cover someone elses mistake. Dublin loses his man more than any of the others but it never gets mentioned. Dublin is a centreforward and Dohertyy is a centreback. That''s why every Norwich manager has always preferred Doherty to Dublin when given the choice. But while these are my just my opinions, myself and others have dragged the facts onto this board many times to back them up.

[/quote] Nutty why is it you quote facts but don''t answer the question. I will ask again have you seen Taylor play for Norwich and score two goals? Do you seriously think Taylor hoofs the ball out of defence as opposed to bringing it down and playing it to another Norwich player? If Taylor was still here would you pick him before Dohert as the right sided centre back? Which defender has already served a suspension for getting 5 yellow cards?

As for your other comments, you are right Doherty doesn''t lose his man because he has his arms around him all the time. Dublin can play equally well as both a centre forward and centre back. Doherty can only play at the back. Doherty is usually trying to cover his own mistakes in the first place, hence the last ditch tackles. Dublin, like Taylor, can read the game much better than Doherty and is therefore able to bring the ball down and play it out of defence.

Bigmarkcanary · December 17, 2007

I notice that a lot of people are slagging off Doherty in this thread and not Camara, whose mistake it was gifted Col U a goal and who also bloody lucky to concede a penalty. Correct me me if I''m wrong re Camara, but I''ve yet to read any criticism of him in the threads on here with regards to Saturday''s performance.

Obviously I''d choose Taylor over Doherty everytime if we still had him here, that''s a no-brainer. But the sad fact is, we don''t, so we''ll just have to do without for the time being.

In my opinion, I don''t think that Doherty played as poorly as what some people think he did and nowhere near as poorly as I''ve seen him play on many occasions in the past. He got some good blocks and tackles in, managed to clear his lines successfully and win some headers like that superb header he put across goal for Granville to turn into his own net.

Man Of The Match award? Sometimes you just have to credit where it''s due, whether you like it or not. It''s just unfortunate, but definitely not surprising, that Doherty has a stigma attached to him. I think I speak for a lot of fans when I say that when I saw that he was included in the first team line-up, I felt very nervous! However, I think I''m right in saying that if it wasn''t for Doherty on this occasion, then we wouldn''t have taken anything from the game.

And before anyone starts with petty little jibes, I think I''ve made it clear that I''m not exactly a Doherty fan - I''m just being realistic and giving credit where I feel it''s due.

Bigmarkcanary · December 17, 2007

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"]

I notice that a lot of people are slagging off Doherty in this thread and not Camara, whose mistake it was gifted Col U a goal and who also was bloody lucky not to concede a penalty. Correct me if I''m wrong re Camara, but I''ve yet to read any criticism of him in the threads on here with regards to Saturday''s performance.

Obviously I''d choose Taylor over Doherty everytime if we still had him here, that''s a no-brainer. But the sad fact is, we don''t, so we''ll just have to do without for the time being.

In my opinion, I don''t think that Doherty played as poorly as what some people think he did and nowhere near as poorly as I''ve seen him play on many occasions in the past. He got some good blocks and tackles in, managed to clear his lines successfully and win some headers like that superb header he put across goal for Granville to turn into his own net.

Man Of The Match award? Sometimes you just have to credit where it''s due, whether you like it or not. It''s just unfortunate, but definitely not surprising, that Doherty has a stigma attached to him. I think I speak for a lot of fans when I say that when I saw that he was included in the first team line-up, I felt very nervous! However, I think I''m right in saying that if it wasn''t for Doherty on this occasion, then we wouldn''t have taken anything from the game.

And before anyone starts with petty little jibes, I think I''ve made it clear that I''m not exactly a Doherty fan - I''m just being realistic and giving credit where I feel it''s due.

[/quote]

Sorry, just corrected one or two little typing errors [:$]

king of latvia · December 17, 2007

[quote user="ricky knight"]Poor old Doc man of the match by a mile still gets pelters. Never see Big Dunc making 30 yard passes in his day but the man is a Legend, a centre back''s job is first and foremost defend whatever it takes, the Doc does that maybe a bit ungamely at times, he got in some important headers and tackles today, played well give the man a break.there was a few others out there today who were awful, have a pop at them for once.[/quote]

WELL SAID 100%

Graham Humphrey · December 17, 2007

I cannot believe that some people dislike a player so much they can''t even bring themselves to credit him for setting up the equaliser. I don''t think anyone has suggested they would prefer Doherty over Taylor, have they? I think Doc is better than some people give him credit for, he''s not great but we do concede less goals when he''s in the side. However Taylor is a cut above any of our current defenders, but I would rather drop Shackell than Doc.

Funny isn''t it, that (as I''ve mentioned before) when Dublin made two errors against Cardiff that cost us the game he got very little stick, but no-one can praise Doc when he does play well. If you don''t like or rate him, fine, that''s your opinion and I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem when people are so blind they can''t acknowledge a decent performance from him.

Quite frankly, I think supporters like that, who have to scapegoat individual players, are a total embarrassment and disgrace to the club, and are incredibly ignorant and narrow-minded.

Citizen Journalist Foghorn · December 22, 2007

Yet another great performance from the Doc!

Jack Flash · December 22, 2007

Not pretty to watch but effective! That was Duncan Forbes and Doc is in same mould as far as I am concerned. The stats for this season say it all - when he''s played we have conceded far less goals on a ratio of 2 to 1. His critics have all made up their minds before he plays, so he has no chance with them.

Smudger · December 22, 2007

[quote user="T07"]As I keep saying.... Shack is the weakest link.... Doc aint great but no worse than Malky was.....
[/quote]

Anybody who thinks that the Doc has what it takes clearly does not have the first idea of what attributes a successful central defender must have.

As for Malky being the weakest link... I think that you will find that was Flem out of the pair that we had and that Worthy off-loaded the wrong guy on winning promotion (something that was proved my Malky winning promotion with two seperate clubs in the following years while Flem played in a team that was relegated and a team that drastically underperformed in the Championship the following season).

Can''t comment on how the Doc played today, but he was awful (as ever) at Colchester last week.

The criticism of Cureton while the clumsy oaf known as the Doc is praised is an aboslute joke!!!

I must admit however that even I am starting to get pleasantly surprised by recent results. In order to keep it going however we definetely need to replace the Doc and also need a midfielder and a target man to play alongside Cureton upfront.

Also please, please, please let Stivahka and Brown go on cut porice deals this transfer window... two awful, awful signings by Grant.

I would also like to see the back of the Doc, but with our limited options at the back we would need to keep him even if we made a couple of signings in defence.

Nice to see us putting a tiny bit of space between ourselves and the bottom 3, but do not be fooled there are still big, big problems at the club.

InLambertWeTrust! · December 22, 2007