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England: Outside looking in.

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I am Polish, but live in England....MY perception of your qualifying campaign is that you have been awful. Tactically inept, Poor personnel selections and an awful attitude have cost you. The English press need to learn when to keep their mouths shut. It is their complaceny and subtle racism that makes English fans appear arrogant, whilst this is clearly not representative of all fans, some seem to believe all the crap the press write. The press make England out to be world beaters, but they aren''t. Every time England qualify, the media is filled with crap about how a dove flew over a clifftop in North Devon at 3am on a full moon and this is an omen England will win the world cup etc. It''s ridiculous. England expect to win everything, but do not have the quality of players or the fight, passion and pride to win anything.England do have a few decent players, but they are a poor team and rely too much on individual contributions and not on a team performance. The players look arrogant and conceited and they think they have a right to win. They do not treat teams with the respect they deserve and are punished for it time and again. usually it ends with a lucky escape or a miracle to see them through after poor performances....they had their miracle on Saturday and they blew it last night.The England fans i would just like to point out - were disgraceful last night, booing the national anthem of the Croatians. This is so disrespectful and for that gesture alone, they got what they deserved last night. If a team from another country booed God Save the Queen then there would be uproar, with the press describing them as animals etc etc.....on that note also and to illustrate my press point, The Daily Mirror on monday ran a feature on the front page of its football pullout - Owed By England: Award Israel players OBE''s for their services to the country after saving our campaign and helping us qualify. A) this is ludicrous. B) bit premature don''t you think?The England team needs a complete overhaul. Green in goal for me, the others cant cut it.defensively - England were awful last night, everytime Croatia went forward they looked like scoring and England didnt know how to handle them.midfield - Gerrard and Lampard....Cant cut it. They do not deserve a starting place, they don''t care enough. Should never start in the same team anyway as they cant play together but they do nothing to warrant a starting berth in my book. SWP is far too small and lightweight and his final ball is terrible. Beckham is past it, although decent performance last night, not that thats sayiong much!!!forwards - rely far too much on rooney, without him you are clueless. Crouch is a joke, despite his good performance last night and his record of goals for England, he screws everything else up! he cant header, and he struggles to lay simple passes. Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!!   he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!!

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Im a Brit living in Holland and on last nights performance ...infact most of the qualifying matches ....its a good thing we didnt qualify because the fact is we arent good enough, any top team would have slaughtered us in Euro 2008, thats how bad this team is at the moment....sad to say but true. we need a big shake up from the top down.

OTBC

When you see Holland play they always look like scoring....when we play we always look like conceding pffffffff.

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[quote user="kick it off"]I am Polish, but live in England....

MY perception of your qualifying campaign is that you have been awful. Tactically inept, Poor personnel selections and an awful attitude have cost you. The English press need to learn when to keep their mouths shut. It is their complaceny and subtle racism that makes English fans appear arrogant, whilst this is clearly not representative of all fans, some seem to believe all the crap the press write. The press make England out to be world beaters, but they aren''t. Every time England qualify, the media is filled with crap about how a dove flew over a clifftop in North Devon at 3am on a full moon and this is an omen England will win the world cup etc. It''s ridiculous. England expect to win everything, but do not have the quality of players or the fight, passion and pride to win anything.

England do have a few decent players, but they are a poor team and rely too much on individual contributions and not on a team performance. The players look arrogant and conceited and they think they have a right to win. They do not treat teams with the respect they deserve and are punished for it time and again. usually it ends with a lucky escape or a miracle to see them through after poor performances....they had their miracle on Saturday and they blew it last night.

The England fans i would just like to point out - were disgraceful last night, booing the national anthem of the Croatians. This is so disrespectful and for that gesture alone, they got what they deserved last night. If a team from another country booed God Save the Queen then there would be uproar, with the press describing them as animals etc etc.....on that note also and to illustrate my press point, The Daily Mirror on monday ran a feature on the front page of its football pullout - Owed By England: Award Israel players OBE''s for their services to the country after saving our campaign and helping us qualify. A) this is ludicrous. B) bit premature don''t you think?

The England team needs a complete overhaul.

Green in goal for me, the others cant cut it.

defensively - England were awful last night, everytime Croatia went forward they looked like scoring and England didnt know how to handle them.

midfield - Gerrard and Lampard....Cant cut it. They do not deserve a starting place, they don''t care enough. Should never start in the same team anyway as they cant play together but they do nothing to warrant a starting berth in my book. SWP is far too small and lightweight and his final ball is terrible. Beckham is past it, although decent performance last night, not that thats sayiong much!!!

forwards - rely far too much on rooney, without him you are clueless. Crouch is a joke, despite his good performance last night and his record of goals for England, he screws everything else up! he cant header, and he struggles to lay simple passes. Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!!   he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!!
[/quote]

The reason for the booing, my Polish friend, is that prior to the match a group of British servicemen just back from Afghanistan were introduced to the crowd, and they walked around the edge of the pitch - when they got to the two sections of Croatian fans, they received a massive amount of abuse and gesticulation. So, before sitting in your ivory tower, try familiarising yourself with the facts behind the matter...

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ok fair enough if this was the case and id say the Croatians were out of order for this, however, id hope that you know that this is not unusual behaviour for England fans and that BBC often turn the crowd microphones off for the national anthems as they are so ashamed at the booing by England fans and the light this shows them in across the globe. It was not an ivory tower comment as poland''s fans are by no means angels!! im sorry it came across this way, and for any offence caused. I can only apologise and hasten to point out that the BBc did not show the servicemen or the Croatian fans reacting to them.

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[quote user="albyella"]

The reason for the booing, my Polish friend, is that prior to the match a group of British servicemen just back from Afghanistan were introduced to the crowd, and they walked around the edge of the pitch - when they got to the two sections of Croatian fans, they received a massive amount of abuse and gesticulation. So, before sitting in your ivory tower, try familiarising yourself with the facts behind the matter...

[/quote]

And the reason for the national anthems of Russia, Israel, Estonia etc. being booed by English fans was what? Seriously, some people will defend anything!

A lot of what our Polish fried says is spot on of course, but we won''t listen to it because of our deep mistrust of foreigners. It''s the only explanation as to why we still insist on playing our uniquely English "style" of football.

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I don''t condone booing of other countries Anthems, and I don''t take part in it either - I was at the Israeli & Russia games, and there was only the usual small element of narrow minded idiots doing that, but at this game the Croatian''s ramped it up by their actions - I don''t defend the indefensible, but I am stating the reason why there was a larger section taking part in the booing - I enjoy the "acceptable" banter between supporters (whether at club or international level), but this was something different...

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[quote user="kick it off"]Forwards - rely far too much on rooney, without him you are clueless. Crouch is a joke, despite his good performance last night and his record of goals for England, he screws everything else up! he cant header, and he struggles to lay simple passes. Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!!   he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!![/quote]I agree with a lot of what you say, but you''re way off-beam in the para above. Crouch can score, pass and hold the ball up, and it''s great that other countries underrate him as long as the England manager doesn''t. We have looked better during  this campaign than we have for a long while, and that was when Rooney was injured. We were playing Owen with Heskey, a fantastic pairing. Owen isn''t a complete player, but he''s one of the world''s best sharpshooters. Heskey isn''t a complete player, but complemented Owen brilliantly - a man without ego, supplying Owen with the bullets.Also, we lost by a single goal after having conceded one goal that I could have saved, and another that any decent professional goalie could have saved. Having said that, most of our playersdid perform well below acceptable standards, and it was all horribly reminiscent of watching Norwich.

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Well I go to most of the England games around Europe and nearly everywhere I have been in a competitive game the England national anthem has been booed. I am not saying two wrongs make a right but we just have to acknowledge that every country have a group of idiots who boo national anthems. I thought it was a reasonably good post from our polish friend until I read the bit about Michael Owen, not done anything since he was 17? He is gonna end up the highest goalscorer we have ever produced and I would back him to score nearly everytime is out on the pitch, had he been playing off Crouch last nite he would have netted even though England were very poor. SWP too small, not strong enough? Surely the thing we are lacking compared to other countries is technical ability not strength?!!!!!                              I do agree with the post when it comes to Lampard and Gerrard and the goalkeepers though, none of the GK''s have been good enough and Lampard and Gerrard never play to their potential. I think what this qualifying campaign has proved most of all though is that England have a good first 11 but we seem to think we have lots of top players in all positions which is so far wide of the mark. If England had a gk, Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, SWP, Hargreaves, Gerrard, Cole, Rooney, Owen every game they would be fine but apart from right back, centre mid and right mid we don''t have any back up as the rest of the players aren''t good enough.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="albyella"]

The reason for the booing, my Polish friend, is that prior to the match a group of British servicemen just back from Afghanistan were introduced to the crowd, and they walked around the edge of the pitch - when they got to the two sections of Croatian fans, they received a massive amount of abuse and gesticulation. So, before sitting in your ivory tower, try familiarising yourself with the facts behind the matter...

[/quote]

And the reason for the national anthems of Russia, Israel, Estonia etc. being booed by English fans was what? Seriously, some people will defend anything!

A lot of what our Polish fried says is spot on of course, but we won''t listen to it because of our deep mistrust of foreigners. It''s the only explanation as to why we still insist on playing our uniquely English "style" of football.

[/quote]

Exactly. English fans boo every team''s national anthem and I, for one, am always ashamed of it. Trying to defend it is futile - and you''re right, we''re so convinced that we have a right to be at every championship that we are doomed to years more of that very low quality football in my opinion.  

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Terrific responses here, its a rarity that i actually get agreed with and not disparraged for my heritage!! You only have to look as far as Danny Dyer''s series on football hooligans and the real football firms to see how bad Polish fans can be - its on an obscure sky channel fairly late - but last night''s was on Polish derbys and the violence therein and it was abhorrant. It happens all over the world and whilst I''m not saying by any means England fans are the only ones - I didn''t hear any booing of GSTQ last night. Or against Russia for that matter. You will get small-minded bigots wherever you go but England seem to have a more vocal section than most!! On the Owen/Crouch point.... Owen in my opinion is not a great player, or even a particularly good one and i think that it highlights Englands weaknesses when he is your main goal threat. He wouldn''t get in the Polish team - We have Eby Smolarek - who is very similar in style to Owen but technically better and more clinical, i think Owen wastes rather a lot for an international calibre striker. Crouch for me is a bit of a non-entity, He always seems to score but he then goes on to make bad decisions, passing when he should shoot etc. For me he is not good enough, I was shocked by Heskey''s inclusion but by god he justified it!! He was excellent when he played and looked a much better bet than Crouch!! He made Owen look better than he usually does in my opinion.I have to say though, Rugby fans seem an entirely different breed, players too, if you want to see an England team play with pride and passion, look no further than them....No dissent, no disrespect, just pure honest guile and a will to fight and give100% for their country. There doesn''t seem to be the same arrogance and expectation there either, despite being holders, they were still not expected to re-create anything like the achievements of 03. They took every match as it came and took nothing for granted and they got what they deserved, nearly. But even after losing the world cup final, they still came out with huge amounts of respect.Until the football team produce anything like the sort of passion the rugby players do when they pull on that England shirt, England won''t win anything and you will be forced to endure the same lacklustre performances time and again. Whilst you do have a good crop of individual players, there isn''yt the pride there to bond them into a team and until that comes i think you''re in for a few long years!!

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Most of what Kick It Off says is true so I can argue with very little of it, except a couple of things:

"forwards - rely far too much on rooney, without him you are clueless. Crouch is a joke, despite his good performance last night and his record of goals for England, he screws everything else up! he cant header, and he struggles to lay simple passes. Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!! he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!!"

Rooney isn''t the massive wonder kid everyone says he is at International level. He''s not terrible but hes not great either. Hes one of those players hyped up by the press.

Crouch I can assure you is not a joke. So many people called him "the giraffe" etc when he first pulled an England shirt on - how wrong they are now. The only player last night who could be excused from being shot.

Owen is heading towards being Englands all time top scorer and is certainly one of the few I would keep in the team. Him and Crouch could possibly be the best forward option we have atm.

The Daily Mirror on monday ran a feature on the front page of its football pullout - Owed By England: Award Israel players OBE''s for their services to the country after saving our campaign and helping us qualify. A) this is ludicrous. B) bit premature don''t you think?

I think you''ll find it was tongue-in-cheek. I doubt they were actually serious about awarding Israel with (pointless) titles like OBE''s etc. Its British newspaper humour for you - poor isn''t it?

"BBC often turn the crowd microphones off for the national anthems as they are so ashamed at the booing by England fans"

Do you actually know this or are you making it up and putting it across as fact? I could question if the microphones are turned off at Polands games to disguise Polish fans booing national anthems.

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[quote user="kick it off"]

 Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!!   he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!!

[/quote]

Errrm, what has Owen done since he was 17??? How about score 40 goals in 88 internationals, making him our 3rd highest goal scorer of all time.

He was top scorer in the premier league twice, European footballer of the year and has scored 187 goals in 354 club appearances, giving him a better than one goal in two ratio.

Criticise the other "footballers" on our team all you like, but Michael has never let us down. LAY OFF!

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Kick it Off,

I''d say absolutely you''re right, particularly about the press, they have a lot to answer for. Especially tabloids like THE SUN. I remember France 1998 when England ''fans'' made me feel so ashamed with their behaviour. The next day the Sun called them "thugs" etc, yet I can guarantee it was that ''newspaper'' that they all read in first place, and where they got their bigoted xenephobic attitudes from.

It''s not just in sport these newpapers have screwed things up, it''s done a lot of social damage too, helping turn a great deal of people in this country into dribbling knee-jerk morons. I''m not saying all Sun readers are like this, but if it''s your only source of information I''d imagine your world view is pretty shafted.

Welcome to England by the way, I hope not too many idiots have given you a hard time for being a pole. 

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In common with many of the respondents above, I agree wholeheartedly with much of what you say about the England setup/attitude/performance. Booing national anthems is, indeed, disrespectful and I am ashamed of the small minority that do it.

Like others, though, I disagree with your assessment of Owen and Crouch. The scoring ratio of both for the national team must surely be down to more than good fortune; especially considering the poor quality of the rest of the team behind them in the majority of games over the last few years. Similarly, although SWP is no world-beater and certainly has many aspects of his game he needs to improve on, I do feel he offers something different down that right flank and has often looked one of England''s most skillful and threatening players (although compared to some of the others around him, I guess that''s not saying much).

It''s always nice to get an outside perspective on both NCFC and England, though, and at least your thoughts are considered and well-written. Do keep posting.

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[quote user="Mook"]

[quote user="kick it off"]

 Owen - what has he done since he was 17? He had the one good tournament and has hung on to that reputation for 10YEARS!!!!   he is useless, but there dont seem to be many alternatives worringly for you!![/quote]

Errrm, what has Owen done since he was 17??? How about score 40 goals in 88 internationals, making him our 3rd highest goal scorer of all time.

He was top scorer in the premier league twice, European footballer of the year and has scored 187 goals in 354 club appearances, giving him a better than one goal in two ratio.

Criticise the other "footballers" on our team all you like, but Michael has never let us down. LAY OFF!

[/quote]OK!! fair enough, i cant argue with those stats, and i guess hadn''t realised how good his career had been!! Im not one for following premiership matters unless we''re there!! Crouch is one i can''t make my mind up on as he always appears clueless, like the flick on he sent the wrong side of the area against Croatia when Defoe was running in, but his touch seems to have improved a lot!! i know i will prob get slated for this but the guy is 6''7 and i dont believe he can aim headers!! surely he should be the most threatening from set pieces, not John Terry?!?! I honestly cant understand why Defoe is so left out everywhere he plays! I feel really sorry for the guy as he is one who ive only ever seen give 100%, correct me if im wrong by the way as im obviouisly not as well versed in England performances as most on here, But for me he has always looked dangerous and threatening?!

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[quote user="Feathers"]

Kick it Off,

I''d say absolutely you''re right, particularly about the press, they have a lot to answer for. Especially tabloids like THE SUN. I remember France 1998 when England ''fans'' made me feel so ashamed with their behaviour. The next day the Sun called them "thugs" etc, yet I can guarantee it was that ''newspaper'' that they all read in first place, and where they got their bigoted xenephobic attitudes from.

It''s not just in sport these newpapers have screwed things up, it''s done a lot of social damage too, helping turn a great deal of people in this country into dribbling knee-jerk morons. I''m not saying all Sun readers are like this, but if it''s your only source of information I''d imagine your world view is pretty shafted.

Welcome to England by the way, I hope not too many idiots have given you a hard time for being a pole. 

[/quote]lol by the way, thanks for the welcome but ive been here for a long time!! idiots have always given me a hard time for being a pole - "we saved you in the war" etc - well actually, no, i think you''ll find a combined effort of the americans and the russians drove the Nazis out of poland - and thats no dis-respect to British servicemen by the way - the contribution they gave in both wars was fantastic and i have nothing but the utmost respect for soldiers past and present.Another i commonly get is "F**k off back to Auschwitz, you Jew" - i find this hilarious as A) my family are not Jewish, like the vast majority of Poles they are Catholic, and B) It really is tiny narrow-minded bigotry at its worst - its like the oratory equivalent of the daily star!!

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Well I''m sorry to hear that. Indeed it''s people who say such things that make me question exactly how proud I am to be English... lowest of the low if you ask me. It''s also funny how bigots bang on about the war, conveniently forgetting those that fought and died did so against the very fascism they espouse.

Anyway, back to footy!

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[quote user="kick it off"]

England expect to win everything,

[/quote]

That''s absolute bollocks.

England aspire to win every competition they enter, but that''s healthy, and it stems from the fact that 1966 set the benchmark forever.

If Poland ever win the World Cup you''ll understand - it takes you onto a different level.

 

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I''m fairly sure we all know that Poland haven''t performed against England for the last 35years.However - if the teams were to play each other now, i would fancy a Polish victory.especialy with Eby Smolarek in the form he is in at the moment.but if you''d like to play that game Bly, could you tell us whether England qualified for Euro2008 and whether Poland did?I''m sure you know.Thanks.

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[quote user="kick it off"]I''m fairly sure we all know that Poland haven''t performed against England for the last 35years.

However - if the teams were to play each other now, i would fancy a Polish victory.

especialy with Eby Smolarek in the form he is in at the moment.

but if you''d like to play that game Bly, could you tell us whether England qualified for Euro2008 and whether Poland did?

I''m sure you know.

Thanks.
[/quote]

kio.

You''re really just promoting a version of the littleman/bigman scenario which has been played for centuries in all different guises.

Since you are shying away from the England/Poland record in full international, here it is for our readers:

Poland


Poland
Founded 1919
Association Polski Zwiazek Pilki Noznej

England v Poland

TypePlayedWonDrawnLostForAgainst
Friendly211021
WC Qual10631167
WC Finals110030
EC Qual422062
Total17106127

10

More like 88 years, methinks.

And you with a population of 40 million. Hardly small.

Quite frankly I still far prefer the inside looking out.

OTBC

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I admire the Poles....and their dancers.[:P]

I''ve spent some time with the Polish.......Both in work and socially. There''s nowt wrong with them.....

Unfortunately, there are a large percentage of British people - who bleat about ''furriners cummin ''ere takin'' all our wurk!''......whilst they sit on their fat @rses, watching Jezzer Kyle and other daytime $hite; and on occasion, only raising their jabba carcasses - to collect their benefit, feed their fat fizzhogs - or go down the boozer.

I sometimes wonder.......

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I admire the Poles....and their dancers.[:P]

I''ve spent some time with the Polish.......Both in work and socially. There''s nowt wrong with them.....

Unfortunately, there are a large percentage of British people - who bleat about ''furriners cummin ''ere takin'' all our wurk!''......whilst they sit on their fat @rses, watching Jezzer Kyle and other daytime $hite; and on occasion, only raising their jabba carcasses - to collect their benefit, feed their fat fizzhogs - or go down the boozer.

I sometimes wonder.......

[/quote]

Mello.

There''s lots of Poles who sit on their fat @rses too.

It''s a habit of a minority of all stripes of mankind.

C''est la vie.

OTBC

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

[quote user="kick it off"]I''m fairly sure we all know that Poland haven''t performed against England for the last 35years.

However - if the teams were to play each other now, i would fancy a Polish victory.

especialy with Eby Smolarek in the form he is in at the moment.

but if you''d like to play that game Bly, could you tell us whether England qualified for Euro2008 and whether Poland did?

I''m sure you know.

Thanks.
[/quote]

kio.

You''re really just promoting a version of the littleman/bigman scenario which has been played for centuries in all different guises.

Since you are shying away from the England/Poland record in full international, here it is for our readers:

Poland


Poland
Founded 1919
Association Polski Zwiazek Pilki Noznej

England v Poland

TypePlayedWonDrawnLostForAgainst
Friendly211021
WC Qual10631167
WC Finals110030
EC Qual422062
Total17106127

10

More like 88 years, methinks.

And you with a population of 40 million. Hardly small.

Quite frankly I still far prefer the inside looking out.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

 

Please, Bly -- let''s not make the Polacks inferiority complex any worse. [:D][;)][B]

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Inferiority complex? i don''t think so - yeah we have never performed well against the English. This is nothing something to be ashamed of - many teams have been outperformed by England - although not so many to the level we have. We have 40million people in Poland, but we do not have the money in football for development, i think the first TV deal for the Ekstrakalasa (Polish top flight) was 2004/2005.Hence the Bundesliga take all the best Polish players, and some Judas''s then take German citizenship and play for the German national side! Miroslav Klose for one!! not that i blame him, Germany have a much better chance of winning anything than we do. I''m just happy after putting up with lacklustre Polish teams for so many years that we finally have one who play decent football and have a good chance of at least giving the Euro''s a decent shot and putting in a half decent performance in an tournament.I am bored of this turning into England Poland debate. I am proud to be Polish and I hope other fellow city fans can be pleased for me after the performance my country put in during qualifying, irrelevant of how your country have done, or how many times you have beaten us over the years!!I was merely offering my viewpoint, i didnt mean to inflame anyone, or wind them up....apologies if i have! (with the exception of the post directed at BlyBly - which was retaliatory!!)I''m sure you will get a decent manager in and hopefully a restructure at the FA and within the squad will allow you to mount a decent challenge for 2010!!Good luck!!

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A current population of 40 million and 20 million Poles living abroad!

And all you''ve ever given the world is a modern version of the bl**din'' parriffin lamp!

I guess your being hard workers makes up for your lack of invention. [:D][;)][|-)][D][:D]

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Why do you have to belittle people from another country? Our Polish friend makes some interesting observations and all you can do is reply with insults. What you forget is that all the countries in Eastern Europe had some form of welfare safety net under communism. That disappeared after 1989 in the transition to democratic capitalism and people have to work to survive. They don''t have our social welfare system which is open to abuse. So they don''t have the problems with obesity that we have. They also don''t have the number of teenage pregnancies that we have. They also have a much better education system than we have in terms of basic schooling. They don''t have our failing inner city schools.

The Polish economy is developing very quickly and foreign investment is piling in because it is a relatively large market compared to the other first wave EU countries: Hungary (Population: 10 million), Czech Republic (10 million), Slovakia (5.5 million). Nearly 6% GDP growth last year, over twice as much as ours. There''s more information here, if you can be bothered: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html#Econ

As for football, surely England are second only to Spain as the great underachievers of the European game, especially for the country that created the game. Never been in the final of the European Championship.  We overestimate the quality of the Premiership and the real stars are our foreign imports. From Vieira, Henry, Fabregas, Hleb, Rosicky, Ronaldo, Tevez, Schmeichel, the real draw cards are foreign.

 Rooney is pretty special but he''s just as likely to get sent off as score a gem of a goal. Gerrard continues to disappoint in an England shirt as does Lampard. Gareth Barry has probably been better than both in an English shirt. Joe Cole has been our most consistent performer and is probably our best player technically, but he''s had a battle to be accepted because he does tricks. John Terry is pretty limited. Rio Ferdinand has the ability to be a really good central defender but his mind goes wandering all too often. The fact that Gary Neville has so many caps rather encapsulates English mediocrity. We don''t have a Lionel Messi or Ronaldo who scares the opposition or a defender like Cannavaro or Maldini who reads the game superbly and sets the tempo from the rear.

Why are we the only country where the pass to the goalkeeper by a defender is applauded? Why is it that we can''t string passes together and play possession football? I don''t know the answer but that is the English disease as regards football. Our first touch is poor and our movement isn''t much better. Arsenal and Man United at their best play very simple football which involves crisp direct passing and swift movement into space. Why have we produced so many players like Beckham and Scholes who tackle so badly and end up getting booked or sent off for their challenges?

Very interesting points KIO made about the difference between rugby and football. The oval ball boys have over-achieved, particularly this year. In 2003 they were favourites and lived up to that billing. At least we regularly compete with the world''s best in that sport (3 World Cup Finals out of the six played, 1 win). Again, our basic skills in that sport, such as passing and running the ball, are poor compared to the South Africans, Aussies and New Zealanders. However, we can do the scrummaging and contact area.

By the way, here are some other Polish inventions, courtesy of Wikipedia:
 




<<Mello.

There''s lots of Poles who sit on their fat @rses too.

It''s a habit of a minority of all stripes of mankind.

C''est la vie.

OTBC




Re: England: Outside looking in

A current population of 40 million and 20 million Poles living abroad!

And all you''ve ever given the world is a modern version of the bl**din'' parriffin lamp!

I guess your being hard workers makes up for your lack of invention. Big Smile [:D]Wink [;)]Sleep [|-)]Drinks [D]Big Smile [:D]

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kio said

I was merely offering my viewpoint, i didnt mean to inflame anyone, or wind them up....apologies if i have! (with the exception of the post directed at BlyBly - which was retaliatory!!).

Re-visit your initial post; and then pull the other one, it has bells on it.

Which one is that? The mods must have deleted it.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

I admire the Poles....and their dancers.[:P]

I''ve spent some time with the Polish.......Both in work and socially. There''s nowt wrong with them.....

Unfortunately, there are a large percentage of British people - who bleat about ''furriners cummin ''ere takin'' all our wurk!''......whilst they sit on their fat @rses, watching Jezzer Kyle and other daytime $hite; and on occasion, only raising their jabba carcasses - to collect their benefit, feed their fat fizzhogs - or go down the boozer.

I sometimes wonder.......

[/quote]

Mello.

There''s lots of Poles who sit on their fat @rses too.

It''s a habit of a minority of all stripes of mankind.

C''est la vie.

OTBC

[/quote]

Is Jezza Kyle and other daytime TV $hite - actually transmitted in Poland (with subtitles) for the lardy @rsed Poles?

Don''t direct your frustration at ''furriners''.......If the opportunity is offered or made available by our welcoming Government, for member''s of the EU to come over ''ere - and do all the jobs of an objectionable nature, that the poor dole scrounging work-shy Britoids: "I is not gonna gerrout of me scratcher fur just £5.75 an'' hour to do a crappy job innit!" "When I can gerra lot more wonga (Stella Sheets) by stayin'' wiv me dear partner wiv her, ''one in the hand, one in the pushchair, one in the oven'' missus - allowin'' us gettun more benefit an'' a bigger gaff....sorted!"

Who''s the problem? Don''t blame the ''furriners''........Blame the ........

Anyway, the Polish are as good at doing the quality ''work'' as their fore-fathers were - piloting Spitfires and Hurricanes 60 odd years ago.

And no, I don''t employ ''furriners''........But I do work hard for my season ticket.[8-|]

 

 

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