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CaptnCanary

Club unlawfully refuse to Cancel my Season Ticket!

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]

Good point Royal Anglian. I forgot to mention in my post that when I went in to the ticket office I expected them to either accept verbal notice to cancel the contract or reequest that I put it in writing. But the response I got was that under no circumstances would they offer me a refund. So I stood and wrote a letter giving then 7 days notice whilst in the ticket office and Richard Gough gave me a letter back saying that this can only be done under ''extreme circumstances''. He ignored the fact that there is no mention of this in the contract.

ob1 - I was surprised too to be honest when I reviewed the contract. The club should not offer season tickets under such terms. But as they have I am entitled to cancel and claim a refund if I wish to do so.

Barclayman - I knew some ''loyal supporter'' would make a post like yours. But I couldnt give a monkeys as you''re talking out of your rear orifice. I''m from a family with generations of Norwich fans and I will always be one of them. The fact that I choose to no longer be depressed and disappointed by attending games for a while is my choice and my way of protesting against the current situation. Maybe if more people did the same thing the board might have to stand up and take notice. Let me ask you this - is a fan that turns up and does nothing but jeer and complain any better or worse than a fan who doesn''t turn up at all? I''m sure you have done that at some time in the past - how about Worthy''s last game against Barnsley? If you think you are a better fan than others just because you go to every game then just get over yourself.

[/quote]Firstly, it was Burnley, and of course i jeered it was terrible, but the point is i was there, i didnt give up when the going gets tough. My point is you are turning your back on the team when things are bad, and i just cant understand it, i love NCFC, whether we win, lose or draw, in the top 6 or bottom of the league, i love going to every game and am optimistic and cant wait for the match every time. The fact that we are now bottom will have no impact, if i wasnt a season ticket holder i would still buy a ticket to every home game, because i love norwich and want to support the team , thru thick and thin.I cant imagine not going to every match simply because were not playing well at the mo, to me thats unthinkable. To that end my only conclusion of you is that your not a true fan. If you were youd be at the Coventry game yes?

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fact of the matter is that by cancelling the agreement u surrender the ticket to the club.. they have the money afor the matches u have seen, and are going to sell ur seat on anyway.. they will lose nothing, the poster will lose nothing, so whats the clubs beef? they''ll probably sell that ticket in league 1 for £30 anyway!

jas :)

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Without seeing the actual terms of the contract its hard to be certain but I feel you are well within your rights to a refund Captain. Any product you buy in any shop can be returned for a refund within a specified time provided it has not been used and this is no different with certain provisos.

When you buy a Season Ticket you are getting a discounted product because you are buying a number of games in advance and to expect to get a refund on that basis would be wrong. However from what you say the club would be entitled to take the full price of the games you were able to attend off the amount you have paid for your ticket and gave you back the difference as a refund. You would not be able to attend future games and the club would be able to sell your seat at full price if it could find any takers.

In effect the club would have charged you full price for the games you have attended and still have the seat available for future matches. It seams obvious that you should be entiltled to a refund on that basis and that this is the thinking behind the terms and conditions.

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="ob1"][quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="ob1"]

I was under the impression that season ticket were non-refundable...? I''m suprised they are...

[/quote]

I haven''t read the small print, but it seems fair to expect someone who wants to cancel before the end of the season to forfeit the season ticket discount, pay full casual price for the games already played (regardless of whether they actually attended those games) and get the balance refunded.  This should apply to someone who has paid the full amount up front not just someone using the monthly payment plan. 

 

[/quote]

Na - rubbish. If you buy it, you buy - otherwise you could think buy a season ticket just to watch the first game of the season and then get your money. It''s ridiculous.

It''d be like going to the cinema, watching 10 minutes and then demanding a pro-rata refund.

The main thing about a season ticket - and there is a clue in the name - is that it''s for a SEASON. [:)] Otherwise it''d be called a Fairweather Ticket, which is what the original poster really wants...

[/quote]

The cinema analogy does not stand up unless you compare it with walking out of a game ten minutes after kick off.  I don''t think anyone would expect a refund under those circumstances.

If the club refunds a season ticket, in principle it can sell that seat again at full price instead of season ticket price and make more money.  If no one wants to buy it, that''s a different issue.  

A season ticket holder renews on the assumption that the club will keep its side of the bargain and make football the number one priority.  If that doesn''t happen it is arguable that the club are in breach of contract. 

[/quote]

Of course it stands up - you walk out on a season, just as you walk out of the cinema. Just cos the length of time is longer doesn''t mean the principal is the same. The Season ticket is valid for a season, the cinema ticket is valid for the length of the film, walk out on either then you shouldn''t expect a refund.

But obviously the club is nice enough to it supporters to actually give the punter the chance to get his money back... and obviously this is just one or two people at the club who are un-informed. Still, if I worked for the club, I''d assume you couldn''t!

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Whatever you reasons for wanting to cancel it really doesn''t matter the fact reamins the terms states that you have the right to do so.  I agree with the comments that you should receive no refund on the games you have already seen.  As you have cancelled the DD you may have made the situation more difficult.  However the club will no longer receive money automatically, so may cancel the ticket rather than pursuing you have debt collecters especially considering you have made it clear you don''t want it anymore.

I would suggest that the club make it clear that season tickets are not refundable.  To avoid further problems.

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OK Burnley it was. And I was there too. But my point is that turning up does not make you a better fan than anyone else. I could argue that because you don''t find it unbearable to watch the team play bad and lose horribly and face relegation to League 1 that you obviously dont care as much about the Club as I do. I could say that the fact you still want to go to every game means losing doesn''t bother you and you will carry on turning up because you have nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon. But I obviously would not take such an opinionated mightier than thou attitude and declare myself a better fan as you have done. That would be arrogant and patronising as well as simply not accurate.

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The exact wording of the relevant parts of the monthly installment plan contract is as follows:

Term 3 - Either you or Norwich City Football Club PLC may terminate the monthly instalment plan agreement at any time by giving 7 days written notice. In the event the agreement is terminated during the season your season ticket will be cancelled and all payments will be refunded less an amount equal to the full casual prices for the matches which have been played.

Quite simple and easy to understand dont you think?

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An interesting post bro, have to say from our conversations the other day I agree with you entirely that the club should refund your ticket as the contract terms clearly state that you have a right to such a refund less the full casual price of all the games gone so far.

However, I do agree with ''City Boy'' that posting it on the forum doesn''t seem the best thing to do from the club''s point of view - you could well precipitate other season ticket cancellations which is only going to cause the club to go one way. Whilst I totally respect your right to cancel, you must accept that if more people did the same as you then it would only create more financial problems for the club.

Regarding your statement to ''Barclayman'' where you stated that just turning up for matches doesn''t make you a better fan, I do have to disagree. Surely the amount of times that you attend games, and therefore the amount of money you put into the club and support the club both vocally and financially is the BEST way in which to gauge how good a supporter you really are!

It''ll be shame not to meet for a pint or 4 before the games coming up in the castlegates - I hope you find something more interesting to do with the wife![D]

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the club  should include in the small print that only in extreme circumstance cn you ben allowed to cancel your season ticketif you are paying by direct debit you will only get a refund amount on what youve already paid minus the games played, you can cancel the direct after your seven days and the club cant persue you for the rest as you have completed your side of the termination agreement, the problem is going to be getting the money back, they will probably refund it to you next year after enquiring if youd like to renew the ticket giving you a reduced rate equal to the refund.

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

YOU have the right

to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered

by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit

scheme"

[/quote]

Doesn''t matter a jot. If you cancel a DD but the credit agreement is still in place you still owe the money! Sadly I know this through bitter experience with a gym and an unreasonably long notice to leave period [:@]

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I agree surely the best way to support the club is to attend the games.  It  is simply wrong to say that this means you accept losing, but you will support the club through the bad times as well as the good.

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[quote user="SPat"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

YOU have the right to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme"

[/quote]

Doesn''t matter a jot. If you cancel a DD but the credit agreement is still in place you still owe the money! Sadly I know this through bitter experience with a gym and an unreasonably long notice to leave period [:@]
[/quote]

of course you could always get someone to contact them on your behalf and say your deceased, yes a lie.. but most companies will clear debts as a gesture of goodwill in this respect. dishonest? yes... but then find me a transparent company... just look at the flack HM customs and Tax are getting at the monet

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="SPat"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

YOU have the right to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme"

[/quote]

Doesn''t matter a jot. If you cancel a DD but the credit agreement is still in place you still owe the money! Sadly I know this through bitter experience with a gym and an unreasonably long notice to leave period [:@]
[/quote]

of course you could always get someone to contact them on your behalf and say your deceased, yes a lie.. but most companies will clear debts as a gesture of goodwill in this respect. dishonest? yes... but then find me a transparent company... just look at the flack HM customs and Tax are getting at the monet

jas :)

[/quote]

Could be another sale here Arrdee [;)]

 

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I did consider the potential repercussions of starting this thread before I did so and decided that it is unlikely that I will start a mass exodus of season ticket holders. Especially given that I believe the right to cancel is only in the contracts of those paying on the monthly installment plan.

I knew that someone like Barclayman would come along and make comments like his. I was actually surprised by how few people have done the same and how many people attacked him for it. But at the end of the day this post was never about who is a better fan than who and my decision and reasoning behind it is my own. My point to Barclayman was that it is not appropriate to judge a fan on any given criteria. There are many ways that fans could be judged such as by who travels furthest, who spends most in the club shop, who spends most time on the Pinkun message board!, etc. If people wish to make judgements then that is up to them but they should keep it to themselves as at the end of the day we are all fans and want the team to do well.

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[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]

An interesting post bro, have to say from our conversations the other day I agree with you entirely that the club should refund your ticket as the contract terms clearly state that you have a right to such a refund less the full casual price of all the games gone so far.

However, I do agree with ''City Boy'' that posting it on the forum doesn''t seem the best thing to do from the club''s point of view - you could well precipitate other season ticket cancellations which is only going to cause the club to go one way. Whilst I totally respect your right to cancel, you must accept that if more people did the same as you then it would only create more financial problems for the club.

Regarding your statement to ''Barclayman'' where you stated that just turning up for matches doesn''t make you a better fan, I do have to disagree. Surely the amount of times that you attend games, and therefore the amount of money you put into the club and support the club both vocally and financially is the BEST way in which to gauge how good a supporter you really are!

It''ll be shame not to meet for a pint or 4 before the games coming up in the castlegates - I hope you find something more interesting to do with the wife![D]

[/quote]I have to in turn disagree with you Beefy - I live 200miles away, i have had canariesworld despite its poor service for four years, i have supported the club and attended WHEN I CAN for the past 18 years. i attended my first game at 2years old, i have bought countless amounts of merchandise, see the yellas every opportunity i get but in terms of expense, distance and general logistics and feasability, me attending every home match is not practical. nor is me attending every home match, being as i have to work on saturdays quite often. I was there the night we put Bayern out of the UEFA cup, I had the day off school to go. I have supported this club through the good times and the bad times, and will always love this club no matter what. I am thinking of emigrating and Norwich factors into the equation massively as im not convinced i could bear to be so far from my beloved team....I am therefore contemplating dropping everything i have at home and making the move over to Norwich to start afresh - that means finding a house, finding a job, leaving all my friends and family over here and having a clean slate in the City, a major factor being that i have never had the chance to have a season ticket before. and you are gauging my support by how often i get to games currently?! you sir, are a total idiot.

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Just had an email from Andrew Cullen confirming that I am correct and am due a refund and that he has asked the ticket office to send me a cheque. I''m glad this has all been resolved sensibly.

They aren''t now gonna have 20,000 people turn up asking for refunds are they??? ;oP

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]

Just had an email from Andrew Cullen confirming that I am correct and am due a refund and that he has asked the ticket office to send me a cheque. I''m glad this has all been resolved sensibly.

They aren''t now gonna have 20,000 people turn up asking for refunds are they??? ;oP

[/quote]

 

Lets hope not otherwise by bringing attention to this you will have contributed to funds being withdrawn from the club. Im sure this will lead to some cancellations how many remains to be seen.    If you had kept your correspondence with the club to yourself a little longer then this would all have been resolved amicably.   As it is your have brought to many peoples attention that if you are on the DD scheme you can cancel as and when you want.  Surely not a good thing for the club you support ? 

Re the supporter debate, fans who attend every match and travel the length of the country in my opinion must be declared the bestr supporters the club has.   Those diehards that travelled to Plymouth or travel to preston on a tuesday night surely are the "best supporters".  I wouldnt have thought anyone would argue about that.  There are exceptions of course such as "Kick it off" who has to work saturdays or supporters who live miles away from norwich.

I lived in South london for 5 years but still made it back for ever home game.   Thats the point true supporters go to great lengths to get to match''s.    You have cancelled your season ticket because you "cant face watching the crud that I''ve seen so far this season all through the winter".  Not the greatest support of the club you love is it ?

FIFA definition of a Football supporter: one who directly financially contributes to a member club or affiliate.

Fan Base. Clubs more general following without affiliation.

          

 

 

 

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[quote user="cityboy"][quote user="CaptnCanary"]

Just had an email from Andrew Cullen confirming that I am correct and am due a refund and that he has asked the ticket office to send me a cheque. I''m glad this has all been resolved sensibly.

They aren''t now gonna have 20,000 people turn up asking for refunds are they??? ;oP

[/quote]

 

Lets hope not otherwise by bringing attention to this you will have contributed to funds being withdrawn from the club. Im sure this will lead to some cancellations how many remains to be seen.    If you had kept your correspondence with the club to yourself a little longer then this would all have been resolved amicably.   As it is your have brought to many peoples attention that if you are on the DD scheme you can cancel as and when you want.  Surely not a good thing for the club you support ? 

Re the supporter debate, fans who attend every match and travel the length of the country in my opinion must be declared the bestr supporters the club has.   Those diehards that travelled to Plymouth or travel to preston on a tuesday night surely are the "best supporters".  I wouldnt have thought anyone would argue about that.  There are exceptions of course such as "Kick it off" who has to work saturdays or supporters who live miles away from norwich.

I lived in South london for 5 years but still made it back for ever home game.   Thats the point true supporters go to great lengths to get to match''s.    You have cancelled your season ticket because you "cant face watching the crud that I''ve seen so far this season all through the winter".  Not the greatest support of the club you love is it ?

FIFA definition of a Football supporter: one who directly financially contributes to a member club or affiliate.

Fan Base. Clubs more general following without affiliation.

 [/quote]

cityboy you have NO RIGHT to question anyone else''s loyalty.  You obviously get a huge kick out of feeling ever so loyal, fine that''s up to you if it floats your boat.  But your sanctimonious selfrighteousness is starting to make me feel [+o(]

 

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Fat Prophet and Kick It Off, I just can''t understand your criticism of City Boy and myself on this issue. Neither of us are suggesting that we are the best fans in the world, we are just saying that when you actually look at what makes a ''great supporter'', surely it has to include the lengths that you go to to watch the team and the amount of times you go to games! I can''t see how anyone can disagree with that!

I myself haven''t gone to many away games over the last two years and I''ll admit that that has to do with our dreadful form, and I would say that that makes me less of a supporter of the club over those two years than people who continue to go to Plymouth, Preston, Burnley away etc.

I lived in Sheffield at uni for three years which meant I couldn''t go to home games as I had done before and after and again I would say for those three years I wasn''t supporting the club as much because I didn''t go to as many games and wasn''t putting as much money into the club.

I am not saying that if you don''t go the games as much because you live along way away means that you don''t care about the club as much as other supporters, but notwithstanding this those die hards who will go to every game home and away this season, for me, are the best supporters that the club has. And that doesn''t include me!

 

 

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Fat prophet,

So why cannot i not question some one elses loyalty ?  In my opinion loyalty is a key element of being a supporter.  If we were all to stop attending and cancel our tickets then the club would be no more.

Yes i do consider myself to be a loyal fan. Ive been attending since my grandad first took me when i was 6.   Ive lived in sheffield and could never go to see Utd or Wednesday cos my only care was the Norwich result.   Ive supported Norwich through more bad times than good but never have i cancelled my season ticket or stopped attending.   

Im not saying im the greatest fan.  As ive previosuly said a lot more supporters than me travel to all ends of the country supporting our team.

However even if we are relegated this season, i will still be there next season.  NCFC will always have my support ! 

 

 

 

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Beefy, a "great supporter" (whatever that is) does not make a great club. 

Consider the possibility that if the club is being badly run, by forking out week after week you may actually be supporting failure.  Rightly or wrongly, that''s what some of our fans believe.  If that''s what they believe, why would they want to perpetuate the problem by continuing to throw good money after bad?  If the board fail to take note, staying away won''t help the situation either, but there''s nothing they can do about that.

If loyalty is so important to you, would you be prepared to pay full casual price instead of discounted season ticket price if you thought it would help the club?  A season ticket is not a badge of loyalty, it''s a commercial transaction along the lines of "buy one get one free". 

 

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To put it a bit more simply, if the board were to sell any player of any value in January, replace them with Bosmans from league two and then announce the commencement of a new £10million second tier on the City stand, would supporters still paying their money to go to games be "loyal" or would they be culpable in propping up a board who`s decisions were destroying the club?

An extreme example i know, but some of us feel that that is pretty much what the board have done albeit over a longer timescale. Therefore propping up a board who`s decisions have sold the club down the swanny by continuing to put money into it is prolonging the damage to the club, not being "loyal".

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