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CaptnCanary

Club unlawfully refuse to Cancel my Season Ticket!

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Hi people. For a number of reasons I recently came to the decision to cancel my season ticket. These reasons include the fact that I am for one reason or another unable to attend 3 upcoming games and also that I cant face watching the crud that I''ve seen so far this season all through the winter! But the reasons for my decision are beside the point and I shall remain a Norwich fan for the rest of my days.

I have been paying for my Season Ticket via the monthly installment plan. The contract clearly states that myself or the club may cancel the agreement at any time by giving 7 days written notice. It goes on to say that if cancellation takes place during the season then a full refund will be given less the full casual prices of the games played to date. So today I wandered into the ticket office where they refused to give me a refund and said that this was only offered under ''extreme circumstances'' such as if I had died! When I showed him the contract which very clearly states that I can cancel it without any such extreme circumstances conditions being part of the wording he still dismissed it and said I couldn''t have a refund. He also said that if 20,000 fans came in asking to cancel their season tickets......(I finished the sentence for him saying).......you''d be screwed! Which quite frankly is correct. But this just shows that the contract is badly written from the clubs point of view and that the staff don''t understand that they have to abide by the law!

So now I have had to email Neil Doncaster appealing to him to fulfil the clubs obligation to abide by the contract that the club issued without me having to take the matter further. I await his reply and will let you all know what Mr D has to say. But in the meantime, has anyone else thought about cancelling and who else thinks its utterley ridiculous that the club react in this manner?

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Selling the ticket is always an option but at the end of the day the contract is completely clear on the matter and I know I am entitled to my refund. Hopefully ND will see sense and the matter will be quickly resolved but I''m prepared to go legal on their (_._) if necessary. I hate it when nonsense like this happens when dealing with companies and will fight it on the principal rather than any great desire for the money. The club may well learn a lesson that they need to change their contracts if they dont want 20,000 people demanding a refund! And that surely cant be a bad thing.

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He should issue your refund after 1 week, now that you have given notice in writting. Going into the ticket office doesn''t count by the standards of the contract as it is written, neither party operating in accordance with the contract in this case.I don''t think it rediculous - if someone had agreed to pay you an amount of money and then arbitrarily decide to stop, you wouldn''t want them to either.  Also it sounds like a complicated calculation to work out your refund, so I doubt that the ticket office staff have the authority to do so except in incredably obvious or "extreme circumstances" such as death.

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I take your point 7rew but the part I feel to be ridiculous is the part where the contract says one thing and then the Customer Services Manager decides to ignore that and impose other terms that are not in the contract.

I have cancelled the direct debit but with only 1 payment outstanding.

Neil Doncaster has sent me a courtesy response saying he will get back to me on Wednesday. I''m sure he will see sense but if not then I will be in touch with the Evening News amongst other things. Its just sad and annoying when things have to come to that though when all it needs is for someone to use a bit of common sense in dealing with their customers.

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u complain about not the club breaking the law on there contract yet you wandered into a ticket office did you give the club the 7 days written notice to cancel, u dont mention if you did, if this is the case then no wonder you wouldnt get a refundjust give the seven days written noice as stated on your ticket then see if thy dont cancel it, if they dont then complain

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

BBC 1 Watchdog.........Go tell Nicky Campbell.

You''ll probably get your refund delivered by hand - by the Chief Exec......maybe.

[/quote]

I was thinking more of a ''That''s Life'' kind of situation. Esther Ransid and Doc Cox could do the honours.

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[quote user="ob1"]

I was under the impression that season ticket were non-refundable...? I''m suprised they are...

[/quote]

I haven''t read the small print, but it seems fair to expect someone who wants to cancel before the end of the season to forfeit the season ticket discount, pay full casual price for the games already played (regardless of whether they actually attended those games) and get the balance refunded.  This should apply to someone who has paid the full amount up front not just someone using the monthly payment plan. 

 

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Has anyone else thought about cancelling their season ticket???How dare you, i will never cancel my season ticket, i am City til i die, whether were 3rd in the premiership, bottom of the championship or playing League 1 football. Support city thru thick and thin, thats the true measure of a city fan, not fairweather supporters like you who quit when the footballs rubbish.I love your statement of ''''I cant face watching the crud that I''ve seen so far this season all through the winter!''''. What a joke, so youd only watch Norwich when there winning then? Fairweather fan, go support Man Utd, they play great football and always win.I will continue to support the club i love thru this difficult time, if everyone thought like you and we played against Coventry and the rest of the season with a crowd of 5000 were do you think we''d be? League 1 for sure.Thankfully, as evidenced by the away crowds we still get, the Plymouth game especially, we have a great core of true fans who will continue to support the club with all there heart until we get out of this mess. And thats what it needs, the players and the fans all pulling together in the right direction to drag the club upwards.What we dont need is fairweather fans like you bailing out the second things get tough.I hear theres still some seats free at Portman Rd, and there doing well, playing nice football, winning matches, not in a relegation scrap, why dont you go and support them?

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It''s a pity there aren''t a few more so-called "fairweather" fans, then the club might have to try a bit harder to get bums on seats . . .

When I was growing up, no one except the posh nobs in the City Stand had season ticket, and the masturbatory "loyal fans" culture didn''t exist.  It never crossed our minds to consider whether we were loyal or not.  We were proud of our club, not of ourselves.  We turned up week in week out, but occasionally we went fishing instead. 

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

It''s a pity there aren''t a few more so-called "fairweather" fans, then the club might have to try a bit harder to get bums on seats . . .

When I was growing up, no one except the posh nobs in the City Stand had season ticket, and the masturbatory "loyal fans" culture didn''t exist.  It never crossed our minds to consider whether we were loyal or not.  We were proud of our club, not of ourselves.  We turned up week in week out, but occasionally we went fishing instead. 

 

[/quote]In the olden days, we sometimes went out with our girlfriends instead of going to games. That saved us from becoming overly masturbatory loyal fans, I can tell you.

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[quote user="King Juan of Spain"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

It''s a pity there aren''t a few more so-called "fairweather" fans, then the club might have to try a bit harder to get bums on seats . . .

When I was growing up, no one except the posh nobs in the City Stand had season ticket, and the masturbatory "loyal fans" culture didn''t exist.  It never crossed our minds to consider whether we were loyal or not.  We were proud of our club, not of ourselves.  We turned up week in week out, but occasionally we went fishing instead. 

 

[/quote]

In the olden days, we sometimes went out with our girlfriends instead of going to games. That saved us from becoming overly masturbatory loyal fans, I can tell you.
[/quote]

I did both

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="ob1"]

I was under the impression that season ticket were non-refundable...? I''m suprised they are...

[/quote]

I haven''t read the small print, but it seems fair to expect someone who wants to cancel before the end of the season to forfeit the season ticket discount, pay full casual price for the games already played (regardless of whether they actually attended those games) and get the balance refunded.  This should apply to someone who has paid the full amount up front not just someone using the monthly payment plan. 

 

[/quote]

Na - rubbish. If you buy it, you buy - otherwise you could think buy a season ticket just to watch the first game of the season and then get your money. It''s ridiculous.

It''d be like going to the cinema, watching 10 minutes and then demanding a pro-rata refund.

The main thing about a season ticket - and there is a clue in the name - is that it''s for a SEASON. [:)] Otherwise it''d be called a Fairweather Ticket, which is what the original poster really wants...

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Good point Royal Anglian. I forgot to mention in my post that when I went in to the ticket office I expected them to either accept verbal notice to cancel the contract or reequest that I put it in writing. But the response I got was that under no circumstances would they offer me a refund. So I stood and wrote a letter giving then 7 days notice whilst in the ticket office and Richard Gough gave me a letter back saying that this can only be done under ''extreme circumstances''. He ignored the fact that there is no mention of this in the contract.

ob1 - I was surprised too to be honest when I reviewed the contract. The club should not offer season tickets under such terms. But as they have I am entitled to cancel and claim a refund if I wish to do so.

Barclayman - I knew some ''loyal supporter'' would make a post like yours. But I couldnt give a monkeys as you''re talking out of your rear orifice. I''m from a family with generations of Norwich fans and I will always be one of them. The fact that I choose to no longer be depressed and disappointed by attending games for a while is my choice and my way of protesting against the current situation. Maybe if more people did the same thing the board might have to stand up and take notice. Let me ask you this - is a fan that turns up and does nothing but jeer and complain any better or worse than a fan who doesn''t turn up at all? I''m sure you have done that at some time in the past - how about Worthy''s last game against Barnsley? If you think you are a better fan than others just because you go to every game then just get over yourself.

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Dear oh dear, here we go again with some holier than thou supporter telling us all how to support our club.

I am fully behind Fat Prophet here in that season tickets used to be bought by those who didn''t want to queue (good joke now we all seem to spend ages queuing beside shut  turnstyles).  The rest of us used to have enough "loyalty" to go without the joys of our little rip off pages.

Now all of a sudden we are expected to pay our money and go every week or we are committing treason.

As a matter of interest Barclayman (ahh how we remember the days of standing, surging and being flattened like men) the "fairweather supporters" probably pay more towards the next Mo Camara than you do on your discounted season ticket.

Season tickets are actually not helping the future of football, ask Man Utd supporters !

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]

ob1 - I was surprised too to be honest when I reviewed the contract. The club should not offer season tickets under such terms. But as they have I am entitled to cancel and claim a refund if I wish to do so.

[/quote]

Colour me shocked! I guess tho, since there is so much demand they can actually do that.

Still, if you can do it according to the contract, I am suprised that they are stopping you!

 

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[quote user="face"]

Dear oh dear, here we go again with some holier than thou supporter telling us all how to support our club.

I am fully behind Fat Prophet here in that season tickets used to be bought by those who didn''t want to queue (good joke now we all seem to spend ages queuing beside shut  turnstyles).  The rest of us used to have enough "loyalty" to go without the joys of our little rip off pages.

Now all of a sudden we are expected to pay our money and go every week or we are committing treason.

As a matter of interest Barclayman (ahh how we remember the days of standing, surging and being flattened like men) the "fairweather supporters" probably pay more towards the next Mo Camara than you do on your discounted season ticket.

Season tickets are actually not helping the future of football, ask Man Utd supporters !

[/quote]

These threads are like two squabling kids where both are right and both are wrong. It''s six to one and half a dozen to the other. I make no secret of the fact that I think a reduction in season tickets would benefit everyone but having said that I will always renew mine.

I am not fully behind Fat Prophett, you or ob1. For each holier than thou supporter telling us about loyal supporters who attend games there seems to be another holier than thou supporter who claim the higher ground through not going to games. Some of those even try to convince us that they are doing it for everyones benefit and that we will be queueing up to thank them at some time in the future.

I am just as happy to be in a crowd of 12,000 as I am in 24,000. In fact 12,000 people who really want to be there would probably create a better atmosphere.

I hope thousands don''t renew next season.

 

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my only point is this.....

If your legal stance is correct and you highlight that you are lawfully allowed to cancel your season ticket and receive a refund, do you think highlighting this is in the best interest of NCFC.... 

If you prove to be correct and therefore set a precedence, then there is a mass request for season ticket cancellations and refunds, this could ultimately leave the club in a very tricky situation financially.

As a loyal supporter dont you think you might have just kept this to yourself.

We are already in a financial mess so this could just make things even worse.

your thoughts please bro ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="King Juan of Spain"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

It''s a pity there aren''t a few more so-called "fairweather" fans, then the club might have to try a bit harder to get bums on seats . . .

When I was growing up, no one except the posh nobs in the City Stand had season ticket, and the masturbatory "loyal fans" culture didn''t exist.  It never crossed our minds to consider whether we were loyal or not.  We were proud of our club, not of ourselves.  We turned up week in week out, but occasionally we went fishing instead. 

 

[/quote]

In the olden days, we sometimes went out with our girlfriends instead of going to games. That saved us from becoming overly masturbatory loyal fans, I can tell you.
[/quote]

I did both

So did I Nutty - my other half used to take me fishing, and I helped him get his tackle out . . . [;)]

[/quote]

 

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="King Juan of Spain"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

It''s a pity there aren''t a few more so-called "fairweather" fans, then the club might have to try a bit harder to get bums on seats . . .

When I was growing up, no one except the posh nobs in the City Stand had season ticket, and the masturbatory "loyal fans" culture didn''t exist.  It never crossed our minds to consider whether we were loyal or not.  We were proud of our club, not of ourselves.  We turned up week in week out, but occasionally we went fishing instead. 

 

[/quote]

In the olden days, we sometimes went out with our girlfriends instead of going to games. That saved us from becoming overly masturbatory loyal fans, I can tell you.
[/quote]

I did both

So did I Nutty - my other half used to take me fishing, and I helped him get his tackle out . . . [;)]

[/quote]

 

[/quote]Fat Prophet. Happiness is a rod in your hand !   [:D]   

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your not entitle to a refund for the games already seen.

However, under the direct Debit Guarentee, you (or the club) can cancel with TEN days notice.

 I deal with this every day at work and have the guarentee, word for word, on my desk. I have gone too great pains to type it up here for you Cap''n Canary.

 The direct Debit Gaurentee:

"in future, if there is a change to the date, amount or frequency of your direct debit, we will always give you 10 working days notice in advance of you account being debited.

 In event of any error, you are entitled to an immediate refund from your BANK or BUILDING SOCIETY

YOU have the right to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme"

 A copy of the safe guards under the Direct Debit gaurentee can be found online.

 should you decide to cancel your direct debit, with 10 days notice, then the club HAS to accept this.. they do not have to accept 7 days notice.. failure to accept the 10 day notice is unlawful, the club would be in breach of the Direct Debit guarentee and breaking the law.... they would either be fined, or risk not being allowed to have Direct Debits in the future...

 If anyone at the club tells you differently to this then they are talking out of their arse... plain and simple.

 If you really want to cancel your Direct Debit instruction then, as long as u give 10 days notice.. you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of any contract. the club cannot do anything to stop you.

jas :)

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[quote user="ob1"][quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="ob1"]

I was under the impression that season ticket were non-refundable...? I''m suprised they are...

[/quote]

I haven''t read the small print, but it seems fair to expect someone who wants to cancel before the end of the season to forfeit the season ticket discount, pay full casual price for the games already played (regardless of whether they actually attended those games) and get the balance refunded.  This should apply to someone who has paid the full amount up front not just someone using the monthly payment plan. 

 

[/quote]

Na - rubbish. If you buy it, you buy - otherwise you could think buy a season ticket just to watch the first game of the season and then get your money. It''s ridiculous.

It''d be like going to the cinema, watching 10 minutes and then demanding a pro-rata refund.

The main thing about a season ticket - and there is a clue in the name - is that it''s for a SEASON. [:)] Otherwise it''d be called a Fairweather Ticket, which is what the original poster really wants...

[/quote]

The cinema analogy does not stand up unless you compare it with walking out of a game ten minutes after kick off.  I don''t think anyone would expect a refund under those circumstances.

If the club refunds a season ticket, in principle it can sell that seat again at full price instead of season ticket price and make more money.  If no one wants to buy it, that''s a different issue.  

A season ticket holder renews on the assumption that the club will keep its side of the bargain and make football the number one priority.  If that doesn''t happen it is arguable that the club are in breach of contract. 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

your not entitle to a refund for the games already seen.

However, under the direct Debit Guarentee, you (or the club) can cancel with TEN days notice.

 I deal with this every day at work and have the guarentee, word for word, on my desk. I have gone too great pains to type it up here for you Cap''n Canary.

 The direct Debit Gaurentee:

"in future, if there is a change to the date, amount or frequency of your direct debit, we will always give you 10 working days notice in advance of you account being debited.

 In event of any error, you are entitled to an immediate refund from your BANK or BUILDING SOCIETY

YOU have the right to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme"

 A copy of the safe guards under the Direct Debit gaurentee can be found online.

 should you decide to cancel your direct debit, with 10 days notice, then the club HAS to accept this.. they do not have to accept 7 days notice.. failure to accept the 10 day notice is unlawful, the club would be in breach of the Direct Debit guarentee and breaking the law.... they would either be fined, or risk not being allowed to have Direct Debits in the future...

 If anyone at the club tells you differently to this then they are talking out of their arse... plain and simple.

 If you really want to cancel your Direct Debit instruction then, as long as u give 10 days notice.. you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of any contract. the club cannot do anything to stop you.

jas :)

[/quote]

The direct debit guarantee only applies to the method of moving the funds from one account to another. Under the terms of the credit agreement, if the direct debit is stopped then the outstanding balance becomes due immediately.

Yes you have the right to stop any direct debit. This doesn''t give you the right to cancel a credit agreement.

I don''t know if there is a seperate clause in the contract allowing you to cancel a seaon ticket but don''t confuse it with the DD guarantee

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]

I take your point 7rew but the part I feel to be ridiculous is the part where the contract says one thing and then the Customer Services Manager decides to ignore that and impose other terms that are not in the contract.

I have cancelled the direct debit but with only 1 payment outstanding.

Neil Doncaster has sent me a courtesy response saying he will get back to me on Wednesday. I''m sure he will see sense but if not then I will be in touch with the Evening News amongst other things. Its just sad and annoying when things have to come to that though when all it needs is for someone to use a bit of common sense in dealing with their customers.

[/quote]

CaptnCanary, I fear you may have shot yourself in the foot here.  As you have cancelled your direct debit without giving 10 days written notice you must surely then be in breach of contract.  As you are in breach of contract the club would probably be well within their rights not to issue a refund for games paid for and not seen.  They may also be able to pursue you for the amount of the final direct debit payment as you failed to give notice and perhaps even for any costs incurred in doing so. 

 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

your not entitle to a refund for the games already seen.

However, under the direct Debit Guarentee, you (or the club) can cancel with TEN days notice.

 I deal with this every day at work and have the guarentee, word for word, on my desk. I have gone too great pains to type it up here for you Cap''n Canary.

 The direct Debit Gaurentee:

"in future, if there is a change to the date, amount or frequency of your direct debit, we will always give you 10 working days notice in advance of you account being debited.

 In event of any error, you are entitled to an immediate refund from your BANK or BUILDING SOCIETY

YOU have the right to cancel your Direct debit at ANY TIME. and this gaurentee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the direct debit scheme"

 A copy of the safe guards under the Direct Debit gaurentee can be found online.

 should you decide to cancel your direct debit, with 10 days notice, then the club HAS to accept this.. they do not have to accept 7 days notice.. failure to accept the 10 day notice is unlawful, the club would be in breach of the Direct Debit guarentee and breaking the law.... they would either be fined, or risk not being allowed to have Direct Debits in the future...

 If anyone at the club tells you differently to this then they are talking out of their arse... plain and simple.

 If you really want to cancel your Direct Debit instruction then, as long as u give 10 days notice.. you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of any contract. the club cannot do anything to stop you.

jas :)

[/quote]

 

And there we have the crux of the problem - this clause clearly relates to any direct debit amount taken in error.  It is a guarantee around the collection method of the payment of the contracted amount of the season ticket.   Unless I am mistaken there is another section that covers the option (or lack of) seeking a refund mid term.

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I had to cancel my season ticket as i was made redundant, only did it as a precaution as i did not know if i could afford it, the woman in the ticket office was really good and understanding and i have had no problems.

I am really looking forward to saturday as it will be my first game since the southampton game on the first day of the season , can,t wait i am counting down the days COME ON YOU YELLOWS.

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