Be Fair

[Branston Pickle 4,149]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[ron obvious 0]

Another excellent post. Far too rational for this message board.

Nil carborundum desperandum

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

That is exactly what your post is Branston....fair. I agree.

[In the blood 0]

I agree BP. We have just played two sides, one fourth and the other top. We have one point more than I expected. I don''t expect too much Saturday against Plymouth and am prepared to be be in the bottom three come Xmas. Not defeatist, just realistic and aware that other teams have a fight on as well. I hope that things really pick up in January and with Roeder really getting to grips with the current squad and any additions, well, who knows........

[Mister Chops 7]

Sack Roeder NOW!Sack the board NOW!Um...No, I can''t do it.  You''re right, of course.  What matters now is getting us to the 50 points we need to stay up, which means 41 more from 31 games.  I''m not too worried as I think we''ll do this with room to spare.  Roeder has plenty of time now to look at the team and work with individuals, and to bring in a couple of players (a hard man in midfield and a left back wouldn''t hurt).

[ricardo 8,034]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]

You are right Branston but we can''t even beat the lower teams at the moment.

Loan players needed and quickly or it will be too late.

[Steelsilver 0]

yep, those 2 places need sorting as does a decent playmaker, hardly even troubled their keeper

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]Top post.Seriously, top of the league with the best away form in the Championship. The Trolls / Binner fans will be constantly reminding us how bad today was and be gloating over the fact we lost, and gloating at all the Percy Postives acting like we did the tripple after the scum game.But seriously, we ran out 48 hours after probably one of the best East Anglian derbys in the last 20 years and one of the best fight backs in recent history considering the circumstances and the previous form of the team.I think everyone has to remain positive and take something from today. We have now scored 1/3 of the seasons goals under Roeder which for 48 hrs is pleasing for me.Best thing is to keep our heads high and remind ourselves that we can turn things around.OTBC

[lucky green trainers 0]

reasonable and realistic.  its also fair to anticipate city losing at plymouth after their exertions, and becuase of the horrednous journey down there, especially when you''ve not won for 11 games.  rationally, a point would be good in these circumstances, but patently not enough.we''re seriously in a right pickle!

[Branston Pickle 4,149]

I''m pretty sure that Roeder will now know what he needs - and a playmaker is surely at the top of that list...along with some cover at l/b.

[Green and Yellow 0]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. I bet Roeder and his assistant will  be calm  and calculating and will  use the international  break, after the Plymouth  game, to  ship  players'' out and bring some in (Obviously loans). Watch  out for incoming players'' from Arsenal. I hope that Rorder sends Hartson back to  WBA. He is a complete disgrace to  professional  football.

[macdougalls perm 0]

Very fair and well reasoned post BP.

[ZLF 335]

We have played the teams in the top 4 positions during our last 4 games and I made the same point last night that our relegation will not depend on this game but games against plymouth etc etc.  However we have played most of those teams already so a change is needed and quickly.

The worrying thing about last night was just how far off the pace we are;  losing is one thing,  the manner of the defeat is a worry as it takes away any confidence that we can go to plymouth and get a point;   that was what we got from Sunday and lost some of last night - hope.  

[Yellow Rider 0]

[quote user="fuzzyfelt"]Sack Roeder NOW!
Sack the board NOW!

Um...

No, I can''t do it.  You''re right, of course.  What matters now is getting us to the 50 points we need to stay up, which means 41 more from 31 games.  I''m not too worried as I think we''ll do this with room to spare.  Roeder has plenty of time now to look at the team and work with individuals, and to bring in a couple of players (a hard man in midfield and a left back wouldn''t hurt).



[/quote]

Astonishing! What planet are you on Fuzzy?

Suggest you check the league table and the woeful stats. that support it.  Of course we CAN still survive but it is going to take a major transformation in team performance (on a comsistent basis) for that to happen. 9 points from 15 games says it all I''m afraid.

The responsibility for this shambles lays at the feet of two people - Worthy and Smith.

Worthy for ripping the team spirit out of the club by too much chopping and changing in the promotion summer. Smith for failing to remove Worthy early enough and then being totally conned by the human version of verbal diarrhoea that she first interviewed in London prior to his full interview with the rest of the sheep on the board 12 months ago.

[renegade tootsie 0]

Agree with Grumpy and the OP.  Roeder has seen the best and worst now and is NO FOOL. 

[quote user="Grumpy "][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. I bet Roeder and his assistant will  be calm  and calculating and will  use the international  break, after the Plymouth  game, to  ship  players'' out and bring some in (Obviously loans). Watch  out for incoming players'' from Arsenal. I hope that Rorder sends Hartson back to  WBA. He is a complete disgrace to  professional  football.

[/quote]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

Astonishing! What planet are you on Fuzzy?

Suggest you check the league table and the woeful stats. that support it.  Of course we CAN still survive but it is going to take a major transformation in team performance (on a comsistent basis) for that to happen. 9 points from 15 games says it all I''m afraid.

The responsibility for this shambles lays at the feet of two people - Worthy and Smith.

Worthy for ripping the team spirit out of the club by too much chopping and changing in the promotion summer. Smith for failing to remove Worthy early enough and then being totally conned by the human version of verbal diarrhoea that she first interviewed in London prior to his full interview with the rest of the sheep on the board 12 months ago.

[/quote]

I''m confident they will turn it round.  I fully believe during the international break we will consolidate, Roeder and Clark will work with the team and get them playing as a unit, and we will bring in the loan signings we need to take the side forward.

Right now, finishing the season in 16th feels about right, but I think this may prove to be similar to the way Worthington kept us safe after Hamilton''s disastrous reign.

And there''s where my issue lies.  The same mistakes with Hamilton (i.e. talking a good game but being clueless and bringing in poor quality players) have been replicated with the mistakes made with Grant.  There must be accountability at board level, and changes must be made.

I don''t blame Worthington.  He gave us three good years, two poor years (and the responsibility for firing him was ducked by the board again), and I think the balance sheet is about even.  If he''d been given decent money to spend - well, that''s the beauty of football - we will never know.

[25overpar 0]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]

Makes total sense, and yes it is vital that GR is given the financial backing to make loan signings and I am confident if this happens he will take us to safety.  Mr Turner has plenty of cash and I hope the only reason it has not been forthcoming to date is because it could be seen that Grant would waste it.  Time for Prudence to be given the boot because if we are relegated, the financial losses will far outweigh any costs associated with keeping us up.  

[Mister Chops 7]

That''s the balance sheet in terms of Worthington.  Obviously the club''s balance sheet is far from even, as we''re constantly being told.

 

[muttley2 0]

Well said, now that we have coming up games against sides that would not set the world alight points are there to be had and if we can get a loan or two in and with the break in between i think myself that things will work out.I belive it will be hard and there is a big mountain to climb and with every climb its started with the first step and sunday was the first step.What we must do is keep positive and look on roeder/clark as the start of a new book and leave the past for the history books.

[BBFF 0]

You''re dead right BP but every team we play is above us. We can only go so far with loan players. Unless the board can find some "on the pitch" ambition for January I still think it going to be relegation for us.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="fuzzyfelt"]Sack Roeder NOW!
Sack the board NOW!

Um...

No, I can''t do it.  You''re right, of course.  What matters now is getting us to the 50 points we need to stay up, which means 41 more from 31 games.  I''m not too worried as I think we''ll do this with room to spare.  Roeder has plenty of time now to look at the team and work with individuals, and to bring in a couple of players (a hard man in midfield and a left back wouldn''t hurt).



[/quote]

Just exactly what do you base this astonishing complacency on FF? 

As regards points....we''ve taken 9 from the last 15 games. So with double that number of games to go,how do you work out that 4.5 times the points gained  so far should be done with "room to spare"?

 

As regards players......you clearly feel "a couple of new ones" will make the above happen. Which ones will make the diffrence?  Perhaps we can get Barca to part with either Messi,Etoo,Henry or Ronaldinho,as  they don''t need them all? Also ,the board has given us no indication of their willingness to bring anyone decent in (with the exception of Ashton or Earnie) since 2003.So why do you think that will change?

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

[quote user="canari francais"]

Just exactly what do you base this astonishing complacency on FF? 

As regards points....we''ve taken 9 from the last 15 games. So with double that number of games to go,how do you work out that 4.5 times the points gained  so far should be done with "room to spare"?

 

As regards players......you clearly feel "a couple of new ones" will make the above happen. Which ones will make the diffrence?  Perhaps we can get Barca to part with either Messi,Etoo,Henry or Ronaldinho,as  they don''t need them all? Also ,the board has given us no indication of their willingness to bring anyone decent in (with the exception of Ashton or Earnie) since 2003.So why do you think that will change?

[/quote]

Tough questions that I want answered, because I can''t.

No club thinks it will be them that ultimately goes down, but 3 do, every year. It doesnt matter if we improve, there still has to be 3 clubs worse than us for us to remain in this league.

With a third of the season gone, there arent 3 clubs that are worse than us.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="canari francais"]

Just exactly what do you base this astonishing complacency on FF? 

[/quote]

Don''t confuse optimism with complacency.

I am not yet ready to hang my head and admit we''re beaten and as good as down, and shame on you if you are.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="fuzzyfelt"][quote user="canari francais"]

Just exactly what do you base this astonishing complacency on FF? 

[/quote]

Don''t confuse optimism with complacency.

I am not yet ready to hang my head and admit we''re beaten and as good as down, and shame on you if you are.

[/quote]

 

And don''t confuse "admitting we''re beaten" with realism ,FF.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="canari francais"][quote user="fuzzyfelt"][quote user="canari francais"]

Just exactly what do you base this astonishing complacency on FF? 

[/quote]

Don''t confuse optimism with complacency.

I am not yet ready to hang my head and admit we''re beaten and as good as down, and shame on you if you are.

[/quote]

 

And don''t confuse "admitting we''re beaten" with realism ,FF.

[/quote]For feck''s sake, this is a Supporter''s message board.There are 31 games to go.To avoid going down (hardly a complacent view!), we only need to finish 20th.Ask me again in February, and I''ll give you a more "realistic" answer.  For now, my answer is we''re crap, but we will get better.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Is no wins after 11 games fair?[:|]

To ''be fair'', if we manage to get a result at Plymouth and beat Coventry.......I may crack a smile and mumble positively, and tap my index fingers together in a mute applause.[:|]

 

 

 

[gsr600 0]

simple, 12 wins = 36 points we already have 9so with this we would have 45 points, so 10 draws would see us safeso 12 wins10  draws, we can lose some and still be safecan be doneits up to the team tho

[Alex Moss 2,167]

[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

I fully expect the mardy negative side of people to be out after tonight''s setback, but being honest, we all know that Watford currently look like a total shoe-in for promotion even at this early stage so were we really expecting anything from the game?  IMO the honest answer is ''no'' - particularly after the players gave their all barely 48 hours ago (but that is another thing altogether).

For me, the games against Watford aren''t really the ones we need to be looking at to get points - though of course any that come along would be fantastic - it is the games against the lesser sides (eg Blackpool, Plymouth) which will decide what we are going to do this season, as they are the ones we are likely to be competing against when push comes to shove. 

Roeder will have now had a good chance to see what we are capable of in terms of good play (Ipswich) and slack play (tonight), and will have also seen the players in training for almost a week - so will now be much more aware of what he needs to get in.  It is after the next few games that we should judge what, if any, progress we have made. 

[/quote]

Exactly. We were playing a side who are currently the premier side in the division, and without Huckerby and Dublin we were always going to be up against it. Hypothetically had we of been in 6th place, we could still easily have lost this game. I trust GR and whereas the smallest smallest minority on here positively court relegation, i think along with the fans willing the team on, he''ll get us out of this mess. The next game will be crucial, and i hope the fans get behind the team again as Plymouth away under Holloway is going to be one tough match.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="fuzzyfelt"]To avoid going down (hardly a complacent view!), we only need to finish 20th.[/quote]

Or even 21st...

[Cluck 0]

Are we talking about the Watford side that lost 3-0 to West Brom recently?