we just arent good enough for the championship

[Syteanric 1]

and that is the stark reality.

 we dont have the quality. ok so we have Hucks but he''s likely to retire at the end of the season.. but the rest of the squad are not championship quality players.

We cannot defend at this level, there are too many gaps.

Roeder can''t be blamed if we go down as the damage was done a long time ago... the best we can hope for is that he can assess who he wants to keep and get rid of.. move 1 or 2 on in January.. we wont be getting in 9 or 10 players despite what fans hope for.. we will get 1 or maybe 2 in.. the kids need to be blooded now as well.. they could be cashed in if they show promise, Released if no good.. or added to the team and build a squard round 1 or 2 of them for the future.

 looking at Watfords team tonight it was basically the same team that took them up 2 years ago.. they have made 1 or 2 quality additions but they have kep the crux of the squad together and thats why they are clear at the top.... our squad was ripped apart as soon as we went up and the replacements set in the motion the downward spiral which is still continuing today.

 Our Squad for a man just isnt up to the championship

Marshall is a poor goalkeeper at this level, he didnt come for the 2nd goal and as a result it went in off the post then off him.

Otsemobor looks like a league 1 defender which is exactly what he is.

 even Chris Martin, the "wonder kid" from last season now looks like the next Ryan Jarvis a poor footballer with a poor touch who wont make a difference.

Hartson, showed today just why he shouldnt be anywhere near the squad! old, fat, unfit, slow, past it... he wont contribute anything in his time here.. i bet we are payng his wages too.

these are just a few of the players who cant cut it at this level.

 Roeder will improve the squad in time but this season is one of rebuilding and looking to the future... i have already accepted that relegation is inevitble now.. we are being cast too far adrift.

Lets enjoy the next win when it does eventually come and support the players for the rest of the season. they are going to need it...

jas :)

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Top post Jas, except I would say Marshall is a good goalkeeper who made a mistake tonight, and Hartson is still a good player but isn''t fit. Not given great service though.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Our defence has always been crap !Thats just defeatist to be fair, I agree we are not a very good squad at the moment.But i think we will stay up.

[walks on water 0]

Whereas I don''t necessarily agree with with you generally about our players,

the table doesn''t lie and there are reasons why we''re currently adrift at the bottom and Watford are at the top.

....But that''s just it, we''ve just played the league leaders, who incidently not only benefit from a settled side and parachute payments but are bankrolled by Lord Ashcroft (an exceedingly rich man) aren''t they ?

Given the damage that Glenn Roeder&Lee Clarke have inherited I think they''ve worked wonders getting those two performances out in the circumstances....in a very short space of time.......I wonder what they''ll achieve with a bit of backing from Board & fans over a bit longer.

I believe in him, and it''s based on the evidence before my eyes of passing football and fight ( at last )

He''s instilled both in a shattered side in a very short period. There were times yesterday(early on) and for most of Sunday when we controlled those games.

 

btw I''ve just printed a paper that has on it''s front page a story that David Sullivan has tried to buy Ipswich and is gutted he''s missed out!

 

[ManchesterCanary 0]

Excellent post...I agree with all you say, especially the part about not blaming Roeder, we must give him time to get us back on track, even if we go down.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

As Graham says,jas has it spot on.I''d agree with most of the player assessments,and there are others you have not mentioned (Chadwick,Russell, Brown etc).

Until there is a root and branch reform at the club,papering over the cracks will continue,as will the spiral downwards.I wouldn''t be confident we''d set the League One alight under the current circumstances.Roeder may be a good manager...time will tell,but his hands will be tied behind his back unless the attitude throughout the club changes,and drastically.

There seems to be a certain inevitability of our fate come next May.

[YellowRoad 0]

Yes things are not looking good, since PG left us with 8 points, we have played 3 more home games and we only got one point and the two away games we lost, what''s new.

 

People on the radio like Darren Eadie keeps telling us that the players must forget this 1 - 3 defeat quick and go on to the next game because there are a lot of mediocre sides we still have to play. Where is he talking about ? In a few weeks time we will have played all teams and if there is one weak side in this division, it''s us.

 

Neil Adams is the same, he has seen us play one reasonable good game and keeps telling us that if we play like this we are a very very good side.

And he keeps going on about all those new players we got this summer, but most of PG new players are not good enough, mediocre indeed.

Earnie hardly ever plays for Derby .... can''t we bring him back on loan .... we need (his) goals ..... winners . .. points !!!

 

Last nights game v Watford was so important to get another good result but it went all wrong again. It was a shame Hucks got sent off in injury time v Ipswich because we now need him even more .... in the great escape !

 

I fear the worst ....

 

 

[silver fox 0]

I don''t believe you are even considering going down this season with 31 games still to play.  Roeder has been in charge for just two games and even in that short time I personally  have seen a vast improvement in our football.  I saw on Sunday that we have the players capable of playing good passing football, and competing with teams at the top.  The new coach will arrive soon and the Roeder team will be complete and he can then set about the business of keeping us up.

What Roeder has to do over the next few weeks is decide which of our players can put those performances in every week.  The guy hasn''t even had a chance to give the likes of Spillane, Strihavka, Jarvis, Cave-Brown a run out yet.  With suspensions and injuries he arguably had three of our better players missing last night.

I have already seen an improvement in Russell and Chadwick, and Taylor has been good at the back, and looks far more threatening than Shackell and Doherty going forward.  Give Roeder time to look at all the players, decide on his best line up, and then if we are still losing matches I might accept the possibility of getting relegated.

[renegade tootsie 0]

I think you are (unusually) being very negative.  You have the intelligence to know Watford are a fantatstic team full of pace, strength movement and confidence.  We have lots of positives from Sunday and even last night.  Roeder needs time.

Agree about Otsemobor, but he will be a reserve come January I promise.  Hartson was a desperation move because of Injuries.  And Martin - well how can you judge the boy until he is actually played in his natural position?  He never gets more than ten minutes up front before he is bunged on the wing!

I think so many people out there underestimate the role of confidence in football, and Watford had it in bags last night, far more confidence than ability. 

The guy next to me MOANED about every single thing and player last night, and was totally unrealistic.  We are not a great side but there are positives and in time they will shine.

Give it time.

 

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

and that is the stark reality.

 we dont have the quality. ok so we have Hucks but he''s likely to retire at the end of the season.. but the rest of the squad are not championship quality players.

We cannot defend at this level, there are too many gaps.

Roeder can''t be blamed if we go down as the damage was done a long time ago... the best we can hope for is that he can assess who he wants to keep and get rid of.. move 1 or 2 on in January.. we wont be getting in 9 or 10 players despite what fans hope for.. we will get 1 or maybe 2 in.. the kids need to be blooded now as well.. they could be cashed in if they show promise, Released if no good.. or added to the team and build a squard round 1 or 2 of them for the future.

 looking at Watfords team tonight it was basically the same team that took them up 2 years ago.. they have made 1 or 2 quality additions but they have kep the crux of the squad together and thats why they are clear at the top.... our squad was ripped apart as soon as we went up and the replacements set in the motion the downward spiral which is still continuing today.

 Our Squad for a man just isnt up to the championship

Marshall is a poor goalkeeper at this level, he didnt come for the 2nd goal and as a result it went in off the post then off him.

Otsemobor looks like a league 1 defender which is exactly what he is.

 even Chris Martin, the "wonder kid" from last season now looks like the next Ryan Jarvis a poor footballer with a poor touch who wont make a difference.

Hartson, showed today just why he shouldnt be anywhere near the squad! old, fat, unfit, slow, past it... he wont contribute anything in his time here.. i bet we are payng his wages too.

these are just a few of the players who cant cut it at this level.

 Roeder will improve the squad in time but this season is one of rebuilding and looking to the future... i have already accepted that relegation is inevitble now.. we are being cast too far adrift.

Lets enjoy the next win when it does eventually come and support the players for the rest of the season. they are going to need it...

jas :)

[/quote]

[The Judge 0]

Jas - I agree to a certain degree we have purchased generally poor players over the past 3 years - but you can only buy certain quality with the money that has been made available.

We do need to strengthen and quickly to get out of the hole we are in - the board have let the squad deteriorate to such an extent that they are now going to have spend more money than they would have had to if they had kept the team up to strength with the purchase of better players over the past few seasons - but its their fault and I have no sympathy for them at all. As I have said numerous times - they got us into this hole and they need to get us out - if they can''t move aside and quickly to give someone the chance to do it.

But lets not get too carried away. Watford were by far the best team we have played this season, they were stronger and quicker than us all over the pitch. They will walk this league if they stay clear of injuries. The gap between them and the majority of other championship teams is the same as we saw last night.

We have played so much better in the last two games than we have all season, and alot of last season and the season before aswell. Appreciate we didn''t threaten too much last night and the second Watford goal was poor defending/keeping, but at least we gave it a go in the second half, scored a goal, showed some determination and put some good moves together.

Agree we definately do need strengthen and we are nowhere near a top 6 side - but to say we are too poor for the Championship if (and its a big if) we play like we have the last 2 games we are good enough. 

[macdougalls perm 0]

Jas, whilst I agree with most of your posts and that last night we were made to look very poor by a very good Watford side I can''t help thinking you are making a huge (and inaccurate) generalisation about not having any Championship standard players except Huckerby. We may not be good enough as a team (and I agree with what you say about not getting on Roeder''s back) but I really don''t agree with you that all of our players are too poor for the Championship.

For instance :-

Chadwick and Russell were an integral part of a Stoke side that were competitive in this division last season.

Cureton was the top scorer in this division last season.

Brellier was the lynchpin of Burley''s very competitive Hearts side.

Taylor played 38 games for a team which was promoted from this division last season.

I agree that Roeder needs time and he doesn''t have a great squad to work with but to say that we only have one Champ standard player is over egging it in my opinion.  

[BBFF 0]

Good post Jas. The squad reflexes the boards "on the pitch" ambition.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[Al Yellow 0]

We won''t be relegated through a defeat to a team clear at the top and likely to stay there, or thereabouts, for the rest of the year. We''ll stay up and get back to our recent position of mid table mediocrity by getting results against teams from 11th down.

 

[ricky knight 0]

but we are not even beating teams we need to, yes watford are good, does that mean we just stick up the white flag. We definately need to start having a go like sunday, try dominating games, put in more shots per game, sort our defence out, the 3rd goal for Watford last night the bloke had so much space it was a joke. You cant blame the Doc now. Most of all we need players in as the ones we have got, just aint good enough, thats not being negative just stating a fact.

[Cluck 0]

Due to gross neglect of the team on the pitch we now have to replace the whole roof rather than fix a few loose tiles when we had the Premiership parachute money.

Results one way or the other are largely irrelevant now because nothing has changed. If Roeder is given a serious war chest come the transfer window there is a chance of staying up....but being a "thoroughly nice bloke" has nothing to do with points totals come May.

I think he has been given the job to motivate what he''s got in the knowledge that there is no money to spend....which is a preferable choice between being in work rather than on the dole.....

Time will tell...and I''ve always thought that time alone could sort this mess out one way or the other and remove this inept Board.

[Buncey 1]

I think we have the makings of a good team. However we severely lack key players in key areas. And it is killing us. The confidence is down at the moment. It''s not going to be turned around by a partly good performance. We need to replace players like Brellier, Hartson, Drury/Lappin, huckerby with players who can and will win matches for us.We miss the likes of Holt, Iwan, the old Drury and the old huckerby/mc veigh. we didn''t replace these players and have only started to get replacements in for the other positions. It took us 2 years to realise that letting steady eddy go was a woeful mistake. It took us a year of dilly dallying to replace mc viegh (did he need replacing or was it just he needed a manager to back him). We still haven''t replaced our old back four. If anything relegation over a decade ago started a slow rebuilding process. Finally we got the players in to finish the puzzle; francis, huckerby, crouch, edworthy etc. We need to start rebuilding now before it''s too late. Against watford last night we were just worse than them in every department. It was going to need a fight and we gave it one but we haven''t got the players to win us the matches. I just hope roeder can get us those inspirational signings that can turn our fortunes around.

[Syteanric 1]

my opinion is that there isnt a team worse than us in this division... i dont mean skill level wise, as we are more than capable in that respect with hucks etc...

 but we dont have those with the Stomach for a fight... QPR (imo the worst team full stop in the division) have that fight... they have players who can scrap for every point, fight for every goal, they might not play pretty football but then they dont need to.. nothing that steel and determination wont get away with... the same QPR who have beaten us.

 then u have the likes of Stoke, Plymouth, Burnley, none of these sides have ever bene known as footballing sides.. yet they flit around the playoff places season after season... find their Darren Huckerby? who is there talisman or hero? they have 11 players who can not only play for each other but dont need to rely on 1 player.. thier managers might not be as tactially astute as perhaps glen roeder is, but those players will work for each other... not the manager or the fans or the board...

the sign of a good team is the ability to do this, we cant work for each other... theres too many sheep and not enough shepherds in the squad. Confidence is low and that proves that when it comes to it our players dont have the guts for a fight and Cannot unite and play for each other grinding out a result.

 Palace are the same.

 People say we should be beating the likes of Scunthorpe and Barnsley.. thats as maybe... but then we have a bunch of footballers... they have a football team... theres more to the word "team" then passing the ball to each other... its in the head, in the belly and in the heart...

I dont doubt our players footballing ability to stay up.... i doubt their spirit.

jas :)

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

my opinion is that there isnt a team worse than us in this division... i dont mean skill level wise, as we are more than capable in that respect with hucks etc...

 but we dont have those with the Stomach for a fight... QPR (imo the worst team full stop in the division) have that fight... they have players who can scrap for every point, fight for every goal, they might not play pretty football but then they dont need to.. nothing that steel and determination wont get away with... the same QPR who have beaten us.

 then u have the likes of Stoke, Plymouth, Burnley, none of these sides have ever bene known as footballing sides.. yet they flit around the playoff places season after season... find their Darren Huckerby? who is there talisman or hero? they have 11 players who can not only play for each other but dont need to rely on 1 player.. thier managers might not be as tactially astute as perhaps glen roeder is, but those players will work for each other... not the manager or the fans or the board...

the sign of a good team is the ability to do this, we cant work for each other... theres too many sheep and not enough shepherds in the squad. Confidence is low and that proves that when it comes to it our players dont have the guts for a fight and Cannot unite and play for each other grinding out a result.

 Palace are the same.

 People say we should be beating the likes of Scunthorpe and Barnsley.. thats as maybe... but then we have a bunch of footballers... they have a football team... theres more to the word "team" then passing the ball to each other... its in the head, in the belly and in the heart...

I dont doubt our players footballing ability to stay up.... i doubt their spirit.

jas :)

[/quote]

Top man...top post......Sums us up perfectly the way all things football have been allowed to decay......  

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="CLUCK"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

my opinion is that there isnt a team worse than us in this division... i dont mean skill level wise, as we are more than capable in that respect with hucks etc...

 but we dont have those with the Stomach for a fight... QPR (imo the worst team full stop in the division) have that fight... they have players who can scrap for every point, fight for every goal, they might not play pretty football but then they dont need to.. nothing that steel and determination wont get away with... the same QPR who have beaten us.

 then u have the likes of Stoke, Plymouth, Burnley, none of these sides have ever bene known as footballing sides.. yet they flit around the playoff places season after season... find their Darren Huckerby? who is there talisman or hero? they have 11 players who can not only play for each other but dont need to rely on 1 player.. thier managers might not be as tactially astute as perhaps glen roeder is, but those players will work for each other... not the manager or the fans or the board...

the sign of a good team is the ability to do this, we cant work for each other... theres too many sheep and not enough shepherds in the squad. Confidence is low and that proves that when it comes to it our players dont have the guts for a fight and Cannot unite and play for each other grinding out a result.

 Palace are the same.

 People say we should be beating the likes of Scunthorpe and Barnsley.. thats as maybe... but then we have a bunch of footballers... they have a football team... theres more to the word "team" then passing the ball to each other... its in the head, in the belly and in the heart...

I dont doubt our players footballing ability to stay up.... i doubt their spirit.

jas :)

[/quote]

Top man...top post......Sums us up perfectly the way all things football have been allowed to decay......  

[/quote]Depressingly, at the moment, i can only agree with this. I''m surprised at you though Cluck - are you agreeing that you don''t doubt the players abilities?

[Mello Yello 2,273]

So, the next manager of NCFC - will have inherited the shi*e off Glenn Roeder - who inherited the shi*e off Peter Grant - who inherited the shi*e off Nigel Worthington - who inherited the shi*e off Brian Hamilton - who brought in the majority of the shi*e........initially....ish?

We have brought in a few decent and half-decent footballers (and had a few decent loans).........We then sold the few decent and half-decent footballers, for a tidy profit (and returned the loans back to their clubs)......And then proceeded to replace them with.....not very good replacements. The money received for the decent and half-decent players - wasn''t re-invested in the squad, it was to pay off debt and fund the off the field activity.......The not very good replacements are quite frankly inconsistent, lacking confidence and are......clearly not very good....... Now we''re reaping the negatives of our lack of following the 5 year flan - and hopefully profiteering from profiteroles and corporate conundrum.

So who is to blame for the current situation? Surely not those who think ''cleverer'' and hail prudence with attrition?

I don''t expect to be doing a Watford, or vying for a play-off place......but I would like to see us around mid-table.......at least. 

In hindsight Mr Chief Exec and the NCFC Directorships......''You reap what you sow''.

[canary cherub 1]

Agree with everything you say Mello, except for the word "hindsight".  There are plenty of fans who could see this coming a mile off.  Some of them tried to ask questions, for example about the size of the squad, within months of relegation from the Premiership.  They were generally ignored, or their "loyalty" was questioned, or they were told in long and patronising detail that they had their facts wrong.   

If we could see it coming, why couldn''t they? 

If we go down  it will be the biggest *** up in the club''s history.

   

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="CLUCK"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

my opinion is that there isnt a team worse than us in this division... i dont mean skill level wise, as we are more than capable in that respect with hucks etc...

 but we dont have those with the Stomach for a fight... QPR (imo the worst team full stop in the division) have that fight... they have players who can scrap for every point, fight for every goal, they might not play pretty football but then they dont need to.. nothing that steel and determination wont get away with... the same QPR who have beaten us.

 then u have the likes of Stoke, Plymouth, Burnley, none of these sides have ever bene known as footballing sides.. yet they flit around the playoff places season after season... find their Darren Huckerby? who is there talisman or hero? they have 11 players who can not only play for each other but dont need to rely on 1 player.. thier managers might not be as tactially astute as perhaps glen roeder is, but those players will work for each other... not the manager or the fans or the board...

the sign of a good team is the ability to do this, we cant work for each other... theres too many sheep and not enough shepherds in the squad. Confidence is low and that proves that when it comes to it our players dont have the guts for a fight and Cannot unite and play for each other grinding out a result.

 Palace are the same.

 People say we should be beating the likes of Scunthorpe and Barnsley.. thats as maybe... but then we have a bunch of footballers... they have a football team... theres more to the word "team" then passing the ball to each other... its in the head, in the belly and in the heart...

I dont doubt our players footballing ability to stay up.... i doubt their spirit.

jas :)

[/quote]

Top man...top post......Sums us up perfectly the way all things football have been allowed to decay......  

[/quote]

Depressingly, at the moment, i can only agree with this. I''m surprised at you though Cluck - are you agreeing that you don''t doubt the players abilities?

[/quote]

Well....they aren''t league winners...but neither should they be cut so far adrift at the bottom of the table. I''m not really in a position to comment on individuals as my involvement is restricted to tv and radio this season....but the league table doesn''t often lie.  Are they up for a scrap though?  Do they have enough deep seated loyalty to the club to give it everything they have?  There lies the rub for me....because I don''t think they have.

I''ll just repeat that nothing has changed apart from Roeder becoming manager....and if he was any kind of magician a few other clubs would have had him before us. Lazy and disinterested players despite their obvious talent are usually the ones released by clubs on the cheap...and I fear that''s the catagory most of our current players come under.

[Mello Yello 2,273]

[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

Agree with everything you say Mello, except for the word "hindsight".  There are plenty of fans who could see this coming a mile off.  Some of them tried to ask questions, for example about the size of the squad, within months of relegation from the Premiership.  They were generally ignored, or their "loyalty" was questioned, or they were told in long and patronising detail that they had their facts wrong.   

If we could see it coming, why couldn''t they? 

If we go down  it will be the biggest *** up in the club''s history.

   

 

[/quote]

"Hindsight" is a popular word used by the Chief Exec when interviewed or writing his comment in the local press.......( ''unhelpful'' is also one of his favourites, when ''unfair'' criticism is levelled at those who can ne''er do wrong - or won''t accept responsibility or accountability for our current situation).

I was actually being ironic.....where as the Chief Exec - thinks he''s being iconic...... 

[Desi Rascall 0]

Yes Hindsight is a marvelous thing,but it has also been said that those who refuse to learn the lessons of historyare condemned to repeat them.

Sadly having heard that Mumby''s latest battle cry was "A Modest Squad,can go alonglong way in this division,whoa steady now" i feel We are going to let yet another promising manager slip through our fingers and join Mike Walker and Martin O''Niell in the "if only" category

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="Fat Prophet"]

Agree with everything you say Mello, except for the word "hindsight".  There are plenty of fans who could see this coming a mile off.  Some of them tried to ask questions, for example about the size of the squad, within months of relegation from the Premiership.  They were generally ignored, or their "loyalty" was questioned, or they were told in long and patronising detail that they had their facts wrong.   

If we could see it coming, why couldn''t they? 

If we go down  it will be the biggest *** up in the club''s history.

   

 

[/quote]

"Hindsight" is a popular word used by the Chief Exec when interviewed or writing his comment in the local press.......( ''unhelpful'' is also one of his favourites, when ''unfair'' criticism is levelled at those who can ne''er do wrong - or won''t accept responsibility or accountability for our current situation).

I was actually being ironic.....where as the Chief Exec - thinks he''s being iconic...... 

[/quote]

I agree as usual Mello....but what do you think the three letter swear word is? I only know the four letter ones.

Help please?

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Confused Des"]

Yes Hindsight is a marvelous thing,but it has also been said that those who refuse to learn the lessons of historyare condemned to repeat them.

Sadly having heard that Mumby''s latest battle cry was "A Modest Squad,can go alonglong way in this division,whoa steady now" i feel We are going to let yet another promising manager slip through our fingers and join Mike Walker and Martin O''Niell in the "if only" category

[/quote]very true - hamilton, continental freebies                  - grant. scottish freebies and dave striker.  whoops.its clear the boards reaction to our current situation is breaktakingly complacent.  its like, ''oh, we don''t need to stump up more cash - popular glen will use his contacts to attract the players in''  - nope, its not working. last week, they said 2-3 more players in, 1 so far. and where''s the new coach???

[gsr600 0]

the problem is that we have seem to lost our way with football, we have rearely had a good defenc over the past few yars but we always had a decent attack,gone are the days when hucks was scoring goals, we have no one of roberts goal scoring calibre, the likes of ashton and earnie are gone, ven the likely of a crouch type ore svenson type player coming on loan are gone, and its a vicious circle, we re bottom of laehue cos we cant get decent players and dont show ambition , decent players  dont want to come here cos of the lack of ambition, and th lack of ambition shows so the players that are dont perform , so we end up bottom,gone are the days when wed win games purely because wed score more then we let in, this was the attacking football that made norwich great,our youth st up hardly produces spectacular players of the quality of belamy and green and sutton, out of our team the only 5 players id say are worthy of playing for norwich are hucks, dublin, spillane, martin, and taylor but hes on loan, the rest just dont cut and should be at lower level, but hey theyll fit rite in next season when play league one, ambition is a thing of yesterday, that we wish for today but will never come tomorrow