Different Manager - Same Team Selection Errors

[Berks canary 2]

I am prepared to give Glen Roeder every chance and he has inherited a dreadful squad of players . However , i cannot understand why he started with Martin and Cureton upfront . Neither are able to hold the ball up in the manner that Chris Brown or even an unfit Hartson did . Why was Hartson sent packing when we have few alternatives , unfit as he was ? Also , when Taylor was injured why did he put Spillaine at Centre Back and Murray in midfield instead of the other way round , which is their natural positions ? These to me are basic errors that i would not expect Roeder to make - Yes , we have a very poor team but this was made much worse by playing players in the wrong position.

[Robert N. LiM 4,238]

Can''t comment on the re-arrangement of the team after Taylor''s injury, but I think his original team selection was designed to have a look at as many players as possible before the international break. I described it on another thread as Roeder''s pre-season: while he''s kept the back four the same, he''s picked 12 players in the six other outfield positions in his first three games. And he said after the game that he''s now had the opportunity to judge the players and establish who has the bottle to get us out of this mess.

Whether that makes him a cool customer who is prepared to take things slowly or a clueless idiot in the PG mould who can''t pick the same team from week to week, only time will tell. For the moment, I''m going with the first option.

[Mook 0]

Perhaps we were set up to use pace, rather than ball holding while the rest of the team get upfield. Perhaps one was supposed to drop deep while the other played on the shoulder of the last man. Perhaps the defence and midfield are at fault because of their delivery, their timing and their vision. I don''t think anyone in their right mind would deliberately play two small attackers and a long ball game.

Spillane is a CB not a midfielder, and Murray has stated he is happiest in CM. Spillane is bigger and stronger than murray, who can sometimes be outmuscled. I don''t think this was a bad call. If Spillane is the Great White Hope, then he needs to start playing like it.

Hartson was ejected for professional reasons, and also I would imagine to save valuable money for loan signings worth their salt.

The same managers keep making the same mistakes - why? Because the players don''t have the bottle for a fight, so in training they look capable and in a match they are a disaster.

[Hairy Canary 668]

Sorry berks but I can''t go along with this. Spillaine came through the ranks as a Centre Half (it was Grant who played him out of possition in midfield) so there was a straight choice between him and Murry as to who shuld drop back when Taylor went off. Murry has stated that he likes playing across the midfield (again it was Grant playing him out of possition at Left Back) so I think Roeders decision was fair enough.

Trying Martin and Cureton up front seemed reasonable to me. I can''t see that continually trying to get blood out of a stone by using a centre forward with Chris Brown''s scoring record would tell us anything. His sellection gave us plenty of options based around pace, not a bad tactic, particularly when playing away from home.

As for Hartson, don''t make me laugh. The guy was sent packing because his level of fitness was a disgrace and Roeder is trying to instill a new level of professionalism into the squad (see his coments about some of the younger players needing to spend more time in the gym). How on earth could he try to build that sort of culture if an unfit, immoblie and overweight loaneee was prefered over a guy who apparently impressed with his comitment in training recently?  

[Old Boy 0]

I get sick to death with "wrong team selection" and "playing out of position" beefs, mainly because 95% of them are wrong, and miss the obvious: which can be either that the players selected don''t have the bottle, as Mook said, or injuries and suspensions leave the manager with no choice. In this case, I''m sure Roeder had asked the team to play through the middle as we did well against Ipswich. Hartson - well, why would you want to keep him? Haven''t we got enough slackers on the books without him? He was totally pathetic against Watford. Another minor point, Martin is 5''10" and weighs 74kg (except in pre-season when he weighs 84kg), so not small.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Old Boy"]I get sick to death with "wrong team selection" and "playing out of position" beefs, mainly because 95% of them are wrong, and miss the obvious: which can be either that the players selected don''t have the bottle, as Mook said, or injuries and suspensions leave the manager with no choice. In this case, I''m sure Roeder had asked the team to play through the middle as we did well against Ipswich. Hartson - well, why would you want to keep him? Haven''t we got enough slackers on the books without him? He was totally pathetic against Watford. Another minor point, Martin is 5''10" and weighs 74kg (except in pre-season when he weighs 84kg), so not small.
[/quote]

He is certainly not tall either, and his skills do not include in holding up the ball at the moment.  I am starting to think perhaps Brown should be starting - but feel relegation is a certainty if this is how low we have fallen.

May I also add Jimmy Smith is no right winger, looked totally out of place there and drifted inside for the most part.  He also looked VERY slow indeed - never a great trait in a winger.

As for Hartson, in his defense he has two assists from four games to his name more than most of our strikeforce can claim from this dismal start to the season.

[shropshire canary 0]

Having watched the ineptitude that was Saturday afternoon in the west country, it really wouldn''t have mattered much who played where on the park - the players were by and large lightweight, slow and lacking in ideas in comparison with a nothing but neat and tidy Plymouth side who must have though Christmas had come early.

It''s a question of heart, ability and desire that''ll see us on from here, and I''m not really sure who''s got it at all out of the squad we have.

The only animation and real sense of caring came from Lee Clarke as he turned away in disgust with his head in his hands time after time after time as we gave the ball away cheaply, senselessly and thoughtlessly.  he and Roder cut a lonely pair as they stood and watched the second half - you could see some major re-assessments taking place, and I almost feel as sorry for the 2 of them as I do for us.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="Old Boy"]I get sick to death with "wrong team selection" and "playing out of position" beefs, mainly because 95% of them are wrong, and miss the obvious: which can be either that the players selected don''t have the bottle, as Mook said, or injuries and suspensions leave the manager with no choice. In this case, I''m sure Roeder had asked the team to play through the middle as we did well against Ipswich. Hartson - well, why would you want to keep him? Haven''t we got enough slackers on the books without him? He was totally pathetic against Watford. Another minor point, Martin is 5''10" and weighs 74kg (except in pre-season when he weighs 84kg), so not small.[/quote]

He is certainly not tall either, and his skills do not include in holding up the ball at the moment.  I am starting to think perhaps Brown should be starting - but feel relegation is a certainty if this is how low we have fallen.

May I also add Jimmy Smith is no right winger, looked totally out of place there and drifted inside for the most part.  He also looked VERY slow indeed - never a great trait in a winger.

As for Hartson, in his defense he has two assists from four games to his name more than most of our strikeforce can claim from this dismal start to the season.

[/quote]agreed re hartson - he had sublime touch for a big man, and can weight a ball perfectly for his fellow strikers to latch onto - although far too big and unfit to do he job properly, he at least showed us how a big man up front should play.  i see in the watford match brown try to chest a ball down, only to misdirect it horribly.   when harston was in his prime, playing alongside larrson and sutton - it must have been an abolute joy to watch for celtic fans.   no wonder henrik scored so many goals.martin looks good coming forward, and so should play  just behind cureton, but again he needs ball to feet, and support from midfield and wingers.   by the sounds of it, the ball never came near him saturday!

[patrickhiggins 0]

I agree with Berks Canary- from the moment Brown came on we at least had a threat up front- Cureton and Martin did not work at QPR nor at Plymouth. Hartson should have been given more time as we played a lot better at Burnley  against Ipswich and Bristol City with him on the pitch simply because he had the ability to link up play and create chances for others. Now we have no-one who can do that. Murray looks good at centre back and Spillane is better in midfield- also why is Eagle totally frozen out this season ?