Proposed Solutions To Help Our Club

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

. 

•  I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

[/quote]

Hence the words in bold from one of my posts a couple of days ago:

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it.

[yellow hammer 0]

Since we also new new large-scale investors and the board are sitting on their hands doing nothing, perhaps this new shadow organisation can seek out new, potential investors.

I think it is a plausible notion; after all, it was this forum that winkled out Peter Cullum as a potential investor and produced a response from the guy in question.

In order to do this we need to do two things:

1. Identify potential investors.There is a lot of public information these days on the internet about wealthy individuals and with some background research perhaps we can find out those who have football interests.

2. Identify the selling points of the club. Point out the potential of NCFC, that we own our assets, that the debt is servicable, huge fan base etc. We should appeal to big investors and small investors (fans?) alike.

Of course, a big investor needs to talk to the right people, so this new shadow organisation needs to get some momentum going to make it work.

Comments?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]The newly authorised ordinary shares at the last AGM., are available

now for purchase. May I suggest you contact the club direct if you wish

to purchase some.[/quote]I could well do that, as could others, but individuals doing that wouldn''t create the kind of focus that is required in my opinion.  You need a lot of people to stand up as a group and be counted, saying in effect that they are unhappy with the current balance of power and the way in which the clubs'' business is being conducted.

[quote]If the intention is to ask the club to authorise the issue (and

power to allott) of more ordinary shares in excess of that already

authorised (and the power to allott), then an EGM (Extraordinary

General Meeting of the shareholders) would have to be called and

resolutions passed. An EGM. can be called with the relevant notice to

shareholders, there is no need to wait until the next AGM.[/quote]

If there is sufficient demand for this, then it doesn''t sound like a bad idea.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms,

[/quote]

But they don''t appear to be sorting out the mess do they?

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

. 

•  I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

[/quote]

Hence the words in bold from one of my posts a couple of days ago:

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it.

[/quote]

Canary Nut, despite all your cutting and pasting and , in many cases, one word or one line responses, I notice you fail to cut out and address the question that was asked of you;  "Have you had direct experience with mergers and acquisitions? If so, perhaps you can share some insight here which would be more helpful than what you have provided so far ( and I mean that in the nicest possible way )."

[dugh 0]

Beaten to it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gravesend_and_northfleet/7089473.stm

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

[/quote]Hahahahahahahahahah!No really, hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!Ohhh, you hate not being the centre of attention, don''t you? Never mind Smudgykins, mummy will make it all better when you get home from school. Only you could fail to see the irony in accusing someone else of posting a "pathetic" thread.Now run along and let the grown-ups talk.

[T 190]

Normally you send an infomation memorandum (exec summary, investment highlights, history, business overview, sales and marketing,operations financial info) to potential investors in the same sector and private equity sector following initial research of potential buyers. However, for something as public as a football club you would expect potential investors to approach you once you have announced that you would be willing to sell the club as NCFC have. This is the same as potential new managers approached the club as soon as they heard Grant was going without needing to advertise the position. The rest is done by word of mouth. The Turners and Callum would be good examples. Apparently, there are some people on here who have good business contacts in the area so the best way would be to use those business contacts. Reality is that there has been no serious public expressions in buying the club given its financial, geographical and league position because there are very few with the wealth or the interest to take an expensive speculative punt on a football club.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

. 

•  I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

[/quote]

Hence the words in bold from one of my posts a couple of days ago:

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it.

[/quote]

Canary Nut, despite all your cutting and pasting and , in many cases, one word or one line responses,...... [/quote]

The effectiveness of a post in communicating the message is not dependant on the length of one''s post, i.e., quality rather than quantity!

 

 

[blahblahblah 2]

Quick friendly bump to bring the newly unstickied thread back to page 1.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

. 

•  I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

[/quote]

Hence the words in bold from one of my posts a couple of days ago:

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it.

[/quote]

Canary Nut, despite all your cutting and pasting and , in many cases, one word or one line responses, I notice you fail to cut out and address the question that was asked of you;  "Have you had direct experience with mergers and acquisitions? If so, perhaps you can share some insight here which would be more helpful than what you have provided so far ( and I mean that in the nicest possible way )."

[/quote]

I didn''t answer last night as I needed to get some sleep!

Yes, I have relevant skills and experience but I can''t  help you with this project. I''ve spent too much time as it is, posting on this thread.

 

 

 

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

. 

•  I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

[/quote]

Hence the words in bold from one of my posts a couple of days ago:

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it.

[/quote]

Canary Nut, despite all your cutting and pasting and , in many cases, one word or one line responses, I notice you fail to cut out and address the question that was asked of you;  "Have you had direct experience with mergers and acquisitions? If so, perhaps you can share some insight here which would be more helpful than what you have provided so far ( and I mean that in the nicest possible way )."

[/quote]

I didn''t answer last night as I needed to get some sleep!

Yes, I have relevant skills and experience but I can''t  help you with this project. I''ve spent too much time as it is, posting on this thread.[/quote]

I think your time would be considerably cut if you didn''t make a new post for every point you make [:P] Try to make lots of points in one single post [;)]

[ca 1]

Bump from me too to get it back to the top.

[gazzathegreat 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms,

[/quote]

But they don''t appear to be sorting out the mess do they?

[/quote] No just contributing to it and also their own bank balances no doubt.

[One Flew Over... 33]

I thought the NCISA were already buying up shares each year on behalf of the supporters? Or did I dream that?

If they are then they already have an organisation / website etc. etc.

I''d love NC to be run in the Barcelona model. The UNICEF shirts this year are in  stary contrast to every other aspect of football. However I''m slightly reticent at handing over large amounts of cash to "squad development" which in essence means funding already very rich footballers lifestyles. We''d be better off funding a campaign to remove the travelling distance rule for young players.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]

I think your time would be considerably cut if you didn''t make a new post for every point you make [:P] Try to make lots of points in one single post [;)]
[/quote]

 

UEA Canary,

May I refer you to an earlier answer to Yankee Canary:

I made a number of posts, each addressing part of your long post, so that it would be easier for any reader of this thread to understand what part of your post I was answering. Surely there''s nothing wrong with making it easier for other readers?

 

[One Flew Over... 33]

Not the NCISA but the Norwich City Supporters Trust: http://www.ncst.org.uk/

See previous thread on the issue:

http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/2/1061251/ShowPost.aspx#1061251

£20,000 invested by fans so far.

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]

I think your time would be considerably cut if you didn''t make a new post for every point you make [:P] Try to make lots of points in one single post [;)][/quote]

 

UEA Canary,

May I refer you to an earlier answer to Yankee Canary:

I made a number of posts, each addressing part of your long post, so that it would be easier for any reader of this thread to understand what part of your post I was answering. Surely there''s nothing wrong with making it easier for other readers?

[/quote]Well by making mutltiply threads you just fill up most of the space , you can make several points in one post and it would still be easy to read (if not easier in my opinion)

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms,

[/quote]

But they don''t appear to be sorting out the mess do they?

[/quote]

EXACTLY! So why are they still Directors - and the Chief Exec is still in a job? If they were members of the footballing squad.....I''m pretty certain that questions and critique would be vocally directed towards them.

If you can''t cut the mustard......... 

[ca 1]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms,

[/quote]

But they don''t appear to be sorting out the mess do they?

[/quote]

EXACTLY! So why are they still Directors - and the Chief Exec is still in a job? If they were members of the footballing squad.....I''m pretty certain that questions and critique would be vocally directed towards them.

If you can''t cut the mustard......... 

[/quote]

 

Which is why Yankee started the thread.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="UEA Canary"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

[quote user="UEA Canary"]

I think your time would be considerably cut if you didn''t make a new post for every point you make [:P] Try to make lots of points in one single post [;)]
[/quote]

 

UEA Canary,

May I refer you to an earlier answer to Yankee Canary:

I made a number of posts, each addressing part of your long post, so that it would be easier for any reader of this thread to understand what part of your post I was answering. Surely there''s nothing wrong with making it easier for other readers?

[/quote]

Well by making mutltiply threads you just fill up most of the space , [/quote]

 

As far as I can tell this is the only thread relating to the ''Proposed solutions to help our club'' that I am making posts on.

In fact not repeating the whole of Yankee Canary''s long posts is probably taking up less space.

 

 

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

On that basis, Delia''s and MWJ. holdings (as at 31st May 2007) would be valued at £9.8m. (327,509 @ £30 per ordinary shares)

[/quote]

If this is the case then surely Delia and MWJ will have made money on NCFC if they are bought out?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

On that basis, Delia''s and MWJ. holdings (as at 31st May 2007) would be valued at £9.8m. (327,509 @ £30 per ordinary shares)

[/quote]

If this is the case then surely Delia and MWJ will have made money on NCFC if they are bought out?

[/quote]

Only if they sell the shares for that amount.  There is no guarantee that anyone willing to buy the shares would buy them for that.

[T 190]

As has been quoted elsewhere the price printed on the share certificates has nothing to do with the value of the shares. The intrinsic value of the shares is the net present value of the future cash flows of the business. However, in practice there are worth what ever someone was to pay for the shares. If the directors had just invested their money into property or the market I estimate they would need to get €16m back for their shares so if they get €10m for their shares they would have made a €6m loss compared to the market i.e. NCFC would be have been a very poor investment. In fact given the risk anything less then €30m would make it a poor financial investment for the directors. Accordingly, the directors are entirely reasonable to suggest that they are idiots to have put their money into NCFC as they could have made a lot more money elsewhere with considerable less hassle or risk.

[yellow hammer 0]

[quote user="T"]As has been quoted elsewhere the price printed on the share certificates has nothing to do with the value of the shares. The intrinsic value of the shares is the net present value of the future cash flows of the business. However, in practice there are worth what ever someone was to pay for the shares. If the directors had just invested their money into property or the market I estimate they would need to get €16m back for their shares so if they get €10m for their shares they would have made a €6m loss compared to the market i.e. NCFC would be have been a very poor investment. In fact given the risk anything less then €30m would make it a poor financial investment for the directors. Accordingly, the directors are entirely reasonable to suggest that they are idiots to have put their money into NCFC as they could have made a lot more money elsewhere with considerable less hassle or risk.[/quote]

 

Fair enough T. And if we were currently a mid-table Premiership side those shares would be worth a lot more than they are now. Since we seem to be heading to league 1 then it''s a reasonable assumption that DWJ''s shares will be worth a lot less in the near future. The real point is that it is the current board''s mismanagement that put us/them into this position, so the problems are entirely of their own making.

Since they freely admit to being idiots at this game, then they should have been more pro-active in bringing some big investors into the club. as our friends down the road and elsewhere seem to be doing.

YH

[gazzathegreat 0]

Can''t argue with that Yellow Hammer, seems that all idiots are banned in Norfolk, maybe due to those pesky passport control points on the Waveney.

[T 190]

Absolutely YH the only way to make any money is to get promoted to the premiership so it is in the shareholders interest more than anyone else to get promoted. This means that we are far more likely that there is a change in owners if we are challenging for promotion.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="T"]Absolutely YH the only way to make any money is to get promoted to the premiership so it is in the shareholders interest more than anyone else to get promoted. This means that we are far more likely that there is a change in owners if we are challenging for promotion.[/quote]

I don''t agree with you T. Investors ( in most things in life ) seek out opportunity if the price is right relative to the potential. This is true of stocks, real estate and football teams. No smart investor wants to buy when things are "at the high". With respect to football examples, look at Mandaric with Leicester City, the investors surfacing at Ipswich when they were in 15th place, Birmingham, Manchester City .....I could go on. Of course, there are also investors who will come in and buy the top clubs such as Manchester United and Arsenal but, even there, they are likely looking at the growth potential of the club as a global franchise.  

Using the example of Norwich City when we were riding high at the top of the Championship, we could probably have done with some greater investment at that stage to help increase our chances of survival in the Premiership. Either the investors weren''t knocking on the door or, if they were, either they weren''t welcomed or what they had to offer was not attractive enough.

[T 190]

YC - you make a fair point - everything has its price. The market in this case is distorted by the gap between the championship and premiership. I don''t see championship football as an investment though. It is a gamble for the very wealthy with money they can afford to lose on being the 3/24 clubs that get promotion and then you only make money if you take cash out rather than put into players. In a horse race the favourites attract more interest than the rank outsiders and at the moment we are a rank outsider. There are some clubs that have managed it often backed by a rich local fan or a London club but there are also lots of other clubs in the same boat who have not managed it.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="T"]YC - you make a fair point - everything has its price. The market in this case is distorted by the gap between the championship and premiership. I don''t see championship football as an investment though. It is a gamble for the very wealthy with money they can afford to lose on being the 3/24 clubs that get promotion and then you only make money if you take cash out rather than put into players. In a horse race the favourites attract more interest than the rank outsiders and at the moment we are a rank outsider. There are some clubs that have managed it often backed by a rich local fan or a London club but there are also lots of other clubs in the same boat who have not managed it.[/quote]

Just a reaction to the two points highlighted T.....I agree with you as far as the marginal clubs that get promotion from the Championship. Most of them fit the yo-yo category because they will inevitably be faced with the challenge of "going for it again or taking cash out." It is the nature of the beast. On your second point I would only add that, while it''s true in a horse race that the favourites attract more attention than the rank outsider, it''s usually the bookie who ends up with most of the money, not the investor.