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YankeeCanary

Proposed Solutions To Help Our Club

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UEA Canary - maybe you could either put together a website that accepts pledges, or use an existing one.  http://epetitions.net/ could be used, with people putting the amount they want to pledge in the comments field, it would be a quick and inexpensive method of setting something up, if a little inflexible.  The other problem would be that the petitioners'' details are made public, which might put some people off.  If you have the html (and ideally database) skills to create a site, that would be really cool too.  Once you''ve done that, all that remains is marketing, which is effectively popping onto every web forum and telling everyone where your site is.

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I''m happy to do whatever I can tp help and am willing to contribute too.

Guess if enough people are interested we should have a meeting to discuss a way forward.

Book your flight Yankee [:)]

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[quote user="Empty Mirror"]

Ok.  Our great club is in crisis.  Relegation to the third tier of English football looks likely.....

 

....Of course, if only half a dozen people are up for it, then the idea falls flat on its face.   I fear that’s the likely outcome.  But in the absence of an invisible fantasy investor, if we the fans aren’t prepared to put up, then we’ll just have to hope Glenn can pull off the great escape.  I shall be hoping and cheering for that anyway – but I’d be even more game for the “Barcelona” option.  Fifty years ago Barca built the Nou Camp with money in effect donated from their fans (they bought season tickets for five years).  If they can, why not us?  Over to you.[/quote]This post is exactly the sort of response that the thread asked for (or maybe not) - a constructive way forward - and I''d be up for it. Great idea, mirror.

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

[/quote]

 

oh dear ....

my 15 year old self cant handle money like that im afraid :D

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Welcome to the forum empty mirror, good first post [Y]. I`d just like to point out though that anyone taking over the club would not HAVE to clear the £17million debt, but merely service it as it is secured against fixed assets etc.[/quote]With that in mind does that reduce the cost to £500 per head based on 32000? If so I don''t se why this can''t work! Maybe £750 would be a happy medium as it would give us a transfer kitty/contingency of around £8000000!! I''m certainly in at any of those prices, £750 the preference.I presume members would still have to fork out for season tickets on top of their initial investment? However I also presume that those who already own shares would recieve the value of the share from the sale. So for many, the investment would be compensated by the value of their share holding? Can anyone confirm this Mr Carrow/Empty Mirror/anyone?

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Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

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A few comments on responses to date:

Very encouraging to see new posters emerging ( not just on this thread ) and congratulations Empty Miror, a great first post. Also good to see posters willing to say they would be willing to put money forward. While I will also add my name to that list, as has already been stated, we would need to see if  a large base of support for that develops or not. It likely will not as a result of a thread on this forum. Obviously it would need to be taken to a greater level of focused activity. More on that later.  

I personally feel, at this stage, it is more important for the fans to develop a better and fuller knowledge picture of their club in all respects. I like to look at it this way; what are the key things the fans know about the club, and what the key things we do not have enough knowledge on. I would suggest the key factors at the moment are:

  • There is probably no doubt in anyone''s mind that we are in trouble relative to where most of us would see the club should be positioned in English football.  
  • Despite the poor performances the fans have seen on the pitch in recent seasons we still have an excellent support base in English football. No groundbreaking observation in the first two points, right? Beyond that, however, our knowledge gets a little more vague and opinions begin to vary.
  • I know this next point is controversial ( particularly coming from me who is not attending games ), but are we really certain of the abilities of the players in the squad. I am not speaking here about their performances but their abilities. When things are going really badly, as they are right now, there is a tendency to assume all or most of the apples in the barrel are rotten. Players looking incompetent because of what''s going on around them or been "coached into them". I would say we need to give Roaeder a chance to get a few strong players/characters in and see what starts to emerge from some of the existing players. Remember the Huckerby/Crouch/Harper effect.
  • Clearly the fans do not have enough knowledge regarding the financial affairs of the club. Of course, one can argue under "normal" circumstances that the fans do not need to have knowledge of such matters. That comes into question, however, when many begin to suspect that the investment into playing strength of the club is well below what the club can reasonably afford and that a club of our size should be able to justify, at the very least relative to the top tier clubs in this division. That is why I challenge those that appear to have knowledge in the financial area to actually fully engage their talent to prepare a fuller picture rather than pieces of information alongside accusations. Imagine how much more powerful the message becomes from the fans when the picture presented is more comprehensive. 
  • Obviously, with respect to new investment opportunities into the club a lot of fans are wondering why other clubs are being pursued and not us. Some doubt the sincerity or even the competence of our majority shareholders in seeking new and stronger investment. With respect to the proposal initiating this thread Canary Nut took more than half a dozen posts to cast terms like naive, laughable, or do some of us know how companies are bought and sold. Let me put the question back to you Canary Nut.....do you know how companies are bought and sold? Have you had direct experience with mergers and acquisitions? If so, perhaps you can share some insight here which would be more helpful than what you have provided so far ( and I mean that in the nicest possible way ). I would venture to guess there are some posters who have had such experience ( I, for example, have had a nominal amount of such experience in corporate life ) who realise that selling is not all about the seller initiating interest and getting on the phone to prospective buyers. My main point here is that many fans just don''t appear to have the belief that there is no outside interest in our club and there are ways to test the waters on that front.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]UEA Canary - maybe you could either put together a website that accepts pledges, or use an existing one.  http://epetitions.net/ could be used, with people putting the amount they want to pledge in the comments field, it would be a quick and inexpensive method of setting something up, if a little inflexible.  The other problem would be that the petitioners'' details are made public, which might put some people off.  If you have the html (and ideally database) skills to create a site, that would be really cool too.  Once you''ve done that, all that remains is marketing, which is effectively popping onto every web forum and telling everyone where your site is.[/quote]To put together a website for it would be no trouble at all, I think an intial site where news and infomation can be posted and where people can register would be a start. Then once we''ve got an intial idea of numbers we could start to think about how much ideally would need to be donated. At the moment though I don''t see a real structure to the project team, ideally I would like to discuss with people running the project, to gain an idea of what would be wanted from the site.However I will start work on the design of the website this week.

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

[/quote]

Could Archant arrange for a photographer to take pictures of these three handing their cheques over to Mr Doncaster.

 

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[quote user="Canary Nut"]

So why is Ipswich getting the buyers attention and not us?                                                                     

A couple of reasons:

a) Ipswich are a much better prospect for gaining promotion to The Premiership than us.                          b) I suspect that Delia & MWJ. are trying to keep NCFC. out of the hands of speculators by putting on conditions on who they would sell to.

[/quote]

and here''s the important other reason I omitted earlier:

c) I wouldn''t expect any big investor to put their money in until the club has "bottom''d out". Why pay more than you have to for the ordinary shares and/or why take the flak while the club is declining in terms of league status?

 

 

 

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[quote user="Smudger"]

Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

[/quote]

 

Get your facts right both Ardee and myself had asked for this to be stickied, taking the limelight off you is it??

I''m sure the mods will sticky any protest thread of yours too if you ask them nicely!

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[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

[/quote]

Could Archant arrange for a photographer to take pictures of these three handing their cheques over to Mr Doncaster.

 

[/quote]

For Christ''s sake READ THE POST

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[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

[/quote]

Could Archant arrange for a photographer to take pictures of these three handing their cheques over to Mr Doncaster.

 

[/quote]

And watch him waste it or disappear into the black hole that is the NCFC bank account. Fans should have control over any money raised. What about the supporters trust?

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[quote user="Smudger"]

Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

[/quote]

Please please for once can you suggest a realistic way to change the state of affairs at Carrow Road? I see a lot of posts where you moan about the situation but I don''t see much in the way of proposed ideas for change that are realistic and don''t involve slagging off the board (we know the board are a problem)

Are you able to answer this post with some constructive ideas?

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[quote user="Smudger"]

Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

[/quote]

Ohh didums - did the nasty grown ups spoil your ickle forum?

Let us know what time you and the other 6 kiddywinks plan to wave your little banners and we can come along and laugh at you.  In the meantime please leave this thread to the adults and those with an interest in doing something about the situation.

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Are you able to answer this post with some constructive ideas?

Have a few pints in the city, stagger down to the ground , shout a bit outside, go home before the game starts. That should solve it all.

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Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms, "They got us into this poop, they can damn well get us out of it!" That includes the squad, Chief Exec and the board of Directors and the Marketing Guru and associates, (maybe take a reduced salary, go by coach to away games instead of chartering aircraft perhaps? sandwiches and savoury rolls in the boardroom with tea, coffee lager and bitter, reduce the unaffordable extravagance of certain perks for employees etc.) If they can''t come up with a plan themselves, what the pluck are they doing here in the first place? If they can''t stand the heat, then get out of the club kitchen''s. If we are so desperately in the mire.....call in the bloody bailiffs, there are plenty of available assets (not on the playing surface though)! If we were a club in the conference with our poverty stricken backs against the wall - with around 800 fans in regular attendance at home games, I may possibly contemplate and maybe consider it....

I am so pi**ed off with all this ''let''s put or pledge our own dosh into the club''....I pay £500+ sheets for a plastic pew - with a half-decent view - and a considerable amount of hard-earned personal finance travelling to away games when I''m able to. I just cannot believe what I''m reading here!   

I''m suitably ''impressed'' by your ideas, concerns and proposed solutions to our dire situation.....Put your proposals, ideas and solutions forward to the transparent Chief Exec - who will no doubt take your concerns and solutions onboard, then file them under, ''bin.''

 If we''re destined for the drop, then don''t blame the support - we are innocent of any charge!

Sheesh! I find it so bleedin'' incredible......I give enough of my hard-earned to this ''black-hole'' without having to fund an incompetent gaggle of inept business folk! Get real.

I''m game to contribute, as long as the NCFC board are willing to pay 99% of my mortgage.

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I''m a relatively new poster but have ''lurked'' for years. I live in the north of England and generally only attend northern away games. I''ve been a fan for 12 years but have only seen 2 home games.I''m up for giving a grand.No doubt I''m not alone in my ''background'' or fan profile. I say this because it''s not just the 20 odd thousand that turn out for home games, nor is it just the forum regulars that could potentially provide the financial clout proposed by Empty Mirrror.I applaud Yankee and EM for doing something POSITIVE and making some practical suggestions.You have my support. As does the club.Let''s do what we can to get out of this mess.

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Ok, so:

  • Even though a lot of people already spend a fair amount of cash on the club, there are people willing to contribute more to the club financially.  Nobody has looked very hard for them, but there are at least 3 people in here willing to contribute a grand, a hefty wedge in anyones'' books.  I forget how much the last "share issue" raised, wasn''t it over 1.5 million ?
  • There is scope for real shares to be sold.  Not preference B, 10% if we get promoted shares, real ones.  As Barry Skipper said, Delia and Mike could have sold 11 % of their shares and still keep their majority status, in my opinion that status doesn''t seem to do much for them apart from making them a target for disgruntled fans who feel that the club should not be "majority owned" by anyone.
  • We are told that the club faces a challenging financial climate this season and in the seasons ahead, more so if we get relegated.

As people are looking for ideas - here''s what I would suggest :

  • That the fans, by means of donations, attempt to club together 1 million pounds, with a minimum donation of 50 quid per donor.  You needn''t neccesarily raise the whole amount, but it''s an eye-catching number that will motivate people. That said, if you can find another 997 people like the 3 in here who say they''ve got a grand to willingly spend then you''ve got it.  Create a focal point (e.g. UEA Canarys'' website), and encourage people to visit, pledge and debate.
  • In exchange, the club issues shares to the value of the money raised, spreading the shares equally throughout the donors, according to the percentage they donated.
  • The club then uses the money raised to fund squad development only, and...
  • Creates a supporter / director position which is determined by election amongst the donors, maybe yearly or bi-yearly ?  2 million pounds worth of loans plus the cost of Barry Skippers shares bought Andrew and Sharon Turner a seat each after all.  Such an position could encourage similar fund-raising programs if neccesary in future years, maybe once every 3 to 5 years ?

In effect a mini-Barcelona model.  The club gets to raise some badly needed cash, the fans get to feel that they can contribute and have a voice on the board that they feel is answerable directly to them, something that quite a few people who care about the club passionately feel they don''t have right now. 

You never know, if we get to May next year, there might be scope in the club shops for "I saved us from relegation" T-Shirts...

I look forward to a lot of people telling me why this is such a bad idea [:)]

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I don''t know if anyone saw the "let''s do a Barcelona" thread and sorry for repeating myself, but I suggested running it from the angle of a co-op, with a minimum share of £50 (thus making it affordable to most and many) but no maximum, and each person getting a vote and say via secret ballot. This way nobody has a monopoly of power. This answers Mello''s gripe about already having paid his dues which is understandable, but also gives everyone a say in large decisions like an elected chairman or management appointment.

Democracy I''ll tells ya, it''s the only way! By the fans for the fans! Collective power and all that! Viva la... yeah I''ll shut up...

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I certainly want more shares, and that could amount to a grand or so!

I am just waiting for the offer, Mr and Mrs Wyn Jones via your mouthpieces Mr Doncaster and Munby. Yes, we all want more shares - not only to help the club fund players but to dilute the majority strangleholders hold on the club.

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[quote user="Smudger"]

Why is this pathetic thread pinned to the top of the message board mods???

Just because CA asked it to be????

How about pinning my thread at the top of the board from today until the day of the protest or do you just like trying to undermine the few fans who may really try and set out to achieve something???

[/quote]

I''ll be coming along to your protest, not to support i''m afraid, just to pop your toys back in the pram.

I''m surprised you find this thread ''pathetic'', it''s actually one of the better ones on here and has been informative and a pleasure to read.

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Okay, although a number of other good suggestions could emerge here is what I would hope to do if I were not 3000 miles away.

  • I believe there are a number of posters on this forum who care enough about the club to form a small committee ( preferably strong objective-focused individuals who know how to move a project forward who will not be easily dissuaded at the first sign of a problem ) with a view to meeting and determining if there is a practical initiative/s that can be acted upon. Determining who should participate on that committee can be handled via communication on here.
  • If I was involved with such a committee one of the first things I would want to do is to reach out to other established Canary associations/groups such as NCISA ( I''m disappointed we have not seen comments from them yet on either this thread or in their own right regarding the club''s plight, but possibly I am missing something ). Again, that can be handled initially with e-mails and telephone calls.
  • The next step is to determine if there are practical initiatives it makes sense to proceed with and, if the answer is in the affirmative, is the expertise available to carry out the agenda.

Most importantly, whatever initiatives are deemed to be practical, before acting upon them I would seriously think about how to determine what a broad-based majority of Norwich fans think is important in securing the clubs future, whether ownership of the club should be structured differently in the future so that fan ownership/representation has a significant role, and whether that is even feasible. It appears to be from some of the comments on here but it requires due diligence, and that is no small task. If the task is deemed to be too great then the other consideration might be as I have proposed initially to bring pressure to bear. The risk here is clearly alienating Delia and Michael and creating the wrong kind of vacuum. By way of response to the excellent post from Empty Mirror, I would say the following:

You had doubts about my initiative getting off the ground because the club is a plc. You may be right, but I don''t think it''s as difficult as you might imagine. A committee might be able to gain legal advice ( Cambridge Canary comes to mind ) as to how far one can go with publicising financial projections of a plc, albeit there would be an emotional understanding/sympathy for suffering football fans. We would be trying to use the power of the internet and even national newspapers to escalate how the Norwich City football fans feel at this stage, with a view to generating more interest in the club, particularly at least attracting the attention of potential investors. Obviously, the more groundwork  and substance that could be attached to any outgoing communication would provide greater thrust and seriousness. At the very least, if there was a focused effort including a release to national newspapers then it applies more pressure for action at Carrow Road than exists currently. I have taken the liberty of preparing a typical newspaper article for a national newspaper that I could envisage being written and, obviously, the hard work would be the tremendous effort required to support the content of the letter:

Norwich Fans Are Fuming

Delia Smith may have made her dough through the world of cooking, but the football supporters of Norwich City are finding what majority owner Delia is dishing out nowadays a little hard to stomach as the club’s fortunes have taken on hard times. Norwich are currently toiling ( that’s a kind word ) in last place in the Championship and look to be set, for all intents and purposes, for a return to the third tier of English football for the first time in almost half a century.

 

So what, you may ask…they won’t be the first football club to go through tough times, and they won’t be the last. Maybe not, but the reason fans are so disgruntled go far beyond the pathetic performances Norwich City are providing in the Championship this season. Does everyone recall Delia’s half-time rant when Norwich played Manchester City in the Premiership a couple of seasons ago?  “Where are you….where are you?” she gushed to the Norwich supporters. “Let’s be ‘avin you.”

 

Well, the tables seen to have turned as Norwich have fallen on tough times through poor leadership. Now the fans are calling out to Delia, “Where are you….where are you? Let’s be ‘avin you “ as Delia has been a church mouse in comparison to her days of Premiership rantings. The normally docile Norfolk fans are up in arms in no small measure as they find little information or comfort coming from the Norwich Board that offers any hope. A petition has been signed by over 100,000 Norwich fans ( some season ticket holders, others periodic supporters ) calling for accountability and heads to roll at Carrow Road.

 

It’s difficult to blame the Norwich fans for their protests. They see clubs with far less than they have achieving significantly more. Norwich attendances at Carrow Road have consistently continued to be in the 24-25,000 range for games at Carrow Road, this despite the woeful displays on the pitch over the past couple of seasons. Some Premiership clubs would dearly love to have such loyalty.

 

Well, Norwich fans are not taking this state of affairs lying down. They are being told that no other investors are interested or lining up to improve the fortunes of the club. They are having a difficult time believing this and have taken their case to internet technology to get their message out far and wide. They believe the club is more than about existing owners, managers or players. It’s really about what it means to the whole community in Norfolk and beyond. What the fans have done is prepare a set of financial accounts that they believe will stand up to the scrutiny of potential investors, to determine if there are buyers out there interested in acquiring a club that has almost immediate potential beyond anything currently being realized. In other words, the fans are in the kitchen Delia, and they want to know “What’s cooking?”      

  

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[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

[/quote]

Could Archant arrange for a photographer to take pictures of these three handing their cheques over to Mr Doncaster.

 

[/quote]

For Christ''s sake READ THE POST

[/quote]

Oops!  I was tired when I read Empty Mirror''s post and stopped at the paragraph which referred to The Murderers P.H. As a result I missed the key paragraph relating to the money!

After making my post I wondered why people would want to give the current NCFC board  more money to keep the status quo. I note the other posts about not giving the money to NCFC other than in a takeover by a members club.

Thanks to ron obvious for pointing out the error.

 

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

 

  • With respect to the proposal initiating this thread Canary Nut took more than half a dozen posts to cast terms like naive, laughable, or do some of us know how companies are bought and sold. [/quote]

 

I made a number of posts, each addressing part of your long post, so that it would be easier for any reader of this thread to understand what part of your post I was answering. Surely there''s nothing wrong with making it easier for other readers?

 

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[quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 

 

 

But, one would need the cash to buy the shares.   To turn the club into a members’ club, it would mean buying all of them (333,750).  Stock Exchange rules would require this anyway.  Don’t be misled by the par value of the shares – shares (like football clubs) can go up or down.   The majority shareholder at NCFC holds 61%.   One poster said it would take £9,000,000 to buy those shares.  I don’t know where that figure comes from; maybe it’s more, or less.  IF that were the figure for 61%, then it would take just under £15,000,000 to buy the lot.

[/quote]

There are 535,235 fully paid ordinary shares as at 31st May 2007.

At £30 per ordinary share (as at 31st May 2007) that would be roughly £16m.

On that basis, Delia''s and MWJ. holdings (as at 31st May 2007) would be valued at £9.8m. (327,509 @ £30 per ordinary shares)

 

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]I don''t see why the current board would have a problem with supporters buying up to 11 per cent of the plc, along the lines that Barry Skipper mentioned in his statement pre-AGM.  Doing so could raise a million pounds or more for the club.  Unfortunately freeing up shares for purchase can only be done at an AGM.  If someone was to survey supporters on how much they would be willing to invest in shares in the club though, it could put pressure on the board to release shares next October.

[/quote]

The newly authorised ordinary shares at the last AGM., are available now for purchase. May I suggest you contact the club direct if you wish to purchase some.

If the intention is to ask the club to authorise the issue (and power to allott) of more ordinary shares in excess of that already authorised (and the power to allott), then an EGM (Extraordinary General Meeting of the shareholders) would have to be called and resolutions passed. An EGM. can be called with the relevant notice to shareholders, there is no need to wait until the next AGM.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

  • Clearly the fans do not have enough knowledge regarding the financial affairs of the club. Of course, one can argue under "normal" circumstances that the fans do not need to have knowledge of such matters. That comes into question, however, when many begin to suspect that the investment into playing strength of the club is well below what the club can reasonably afford and that a club of our size should be able to justify, at the very least relative to the top tier clubs in this division. That is why I challenge those that appear to have knowledge in the financial area to actually fully engage their talent to prepare a fuller picture rather than pieces of information alongside accusations. Imagine how much more powerful the message becomes from the fans when the picture presented is more comprehensive. 

[/quote]

 

From Yankee Canary''s first post on this thread:

''Finance Team - I believe Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet have had the most to say in this area. Taking the clubs past financials along with all of the concern and, perhaps quite rightly, the suspicion put forth by Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet, it should be possible to put forth a fairly accurate reflection of our current position and future five year assessment.''

 

Over to Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet ........

 

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Sorry, but there are people employed at the club on substantial salaries, who''s job is to sort out these financial floundering.....In layman''s terms, "They got us into this poop, they can damn well get us out of it!" That includes the squad, Chief Exec and the board of Directors and the Marketing Guru and associates, (maybe take a reduced salary, go by coach to away games instead of chartering aircraft perhaps? sandwiches and savoury rolls in the boardroom with tea, coffee lager and bitter, reduce the unaffordable extravagance of certain perks for employees etc.) If they can''t come up with a plan themselves, what the pluck are they doing here in the first place? If they can''t stand the heat, then get out of the club kitchen''s. If we are so desperately in the mire.....call in the bloody bailiffs, there are plenty of available assets (not on the playing surface though)! If we were a club in the conference with our poverty stricken backs against the wall - with around 800 fans in regular attendance at home games, I may possibly contemplate and maybe consider it....

I am so pi**ed off with all this ''let''s put or pledge our own dosh into the club''....I pay £500+ sheets for a plastic pew - with a half-decent view - and a considerable amount of hard-earned personal finance travelling to away games when I''m able to. I just cannot believe what I''m reading here!   

I''m suitably ''impressed'' by your ideas, concerns and proposed solutions to our dire situation.....Put your proposals, ideas and solutions forward to the transparent Chief Exec - who will no doubt take your concerns and solutions onboard, then file them under, ''bin.''

 If we''re destined for the drop, then don''t blame the support - we are innocent of any charge!

Sheesh! I find it so bleedin'' incredible......I give enough of my hard-earned to this ''black-hole'' without having to fund an incompetent gaggle of inept business folk! Get real.

I''m game to contribute, as long as the NCFC board are willing to pay 99% of my mortgage.

[/quote]

What an excellent post.

 

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