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YankeeCanary

Proposed Solutions To Help Our Club

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Well, our club is clearly in trouble so, instead of all the constant complaining and criticising each other on this forum ( picking up on Mr. Hucker''s suggestion ), lets have some PROPOSED SOLUTIONS. In doing so, we should try to avoid just resorting to tell Delia & company to p**s off because a) that is not happening despite a good couple years worth of input from some that it should and b) if the current board does go there has to be candidates to fill that gap, and if they either have not presented themselves or our current board will not actively seek the same then we are at a stalemate unless WE do something. So, despite all the complaining I have yet to see anyone come up with a solution so....let''s do something.

Here''s a proposal to get us started and, even if you think it''s crazy try your very best not to be critical unless you can come up with a better and more concrete proposal in order to apply proactivity for change at our club.

Let''s put a shadow Board together for the club made up ( for now ) of posters on this forum. Their charge will be to outline as complete a profile of our club as possible with a view to the club being up for sale. If, at a later date, it is felt appropriate to incorporate other associations such as NCISA, for example, then all well and good.

Naturally, the profile will need to include all relevant information in terms of the balance sheet, cash flow position and P&L scenario and position of change in these areas for the for the next five years against certain base assumptions. Naturally, this will include what we want our club to achieve, the potential to do so, the current player strength/weaknesses and estimated asset value of the current squad, along with our investment expectations on new players during the course of the next five years in order to meet our objectives. Let''s parcel all of that in to as neat and effective a package that we can with a view to advertising it on the internet certainly throughout the UK target websites but also to other select parts of the world as well.  

Now, we need to appoint a group that''s qualified to accept this charter and go forth with it. I will make some suggestions:

CEO - Cluck- he''s certainly had the most to say in criticism of the current Board, says he''s had his own business and is currently acting as a consultant. It seems to me he''s eminently motivated and qualified to lead this effort and lay out a vision of where this club needs to be and, more importantly, HOW it can get there .

Finance Team - I believe Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet have had the most to say in this area. Taking the clubs past financials along with all of the concern and, perhaps quite rightly, the suspicion put forth by Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet, it should be possible to put forth a fairly accurate reflection of our current position and future five year assessment.

IT Expert - Someone who can take the inputs provided by the Shadow Executive team and put it into a succinct package on selected websites. I know there are talented people in this area on the forum. Perhaps some suggestions could be put forth as the best candidate.

Now, of course, it would be less than "Norfolk" of us not to tell Delia and Michael of our intentions. They must already be well aware of the frustration we feel which, to some extent, triggered Delia''s outburst at the AGM regarding "if there are any idiots out there wanting to invest....". I would suggest that our input to Delia and Michael is that we are taking the iniative in a genuine attempt to help and we would appreciate their cooperation and agreement with the iniaitive for the club that we all love so much. Of course, we don''t want to let them off the hook by not putting some dates around our need for a reply from them, so the Shadow Executive Team will have to establish timelines for package preparation as well as a response date from Delia and Michael. We would hope they would include in that response a price at which they would be willing to relinquish control. If they fail to identify a number then we will let them know we are prepared, in lieu of no input from them, to identify a number that we feel is fair. As we all know, and many of you have been saying, time is of the essence.

Well, there you have it, a first proposal that WE can take action on. In the spirit of Mr. Hucker''s suggestion let''s try not to ridicule it but, rather, build on it with even better better proposals. Remember, the club we love is in our hands. The only other pro-active approach I have seen so far has been Smudger''s one-man protests at Carrow Road but now that he is involved in his own business venture he may not have the time to lead further efforts in that area. I look forward to your responses. Try to imagine it''s 1940 and, for all intents and purposes, it looks the Germans are going to invade our country. Are we going to compain that the government should do something or are we going to do the British thing and all pull together. What''s it to be?    

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Naturally, the profile will need to include all relevant information in terms of the balance sheet, cash flow position and P&L scenario and position of change in these areas for the for the next five years against certain base assumptions. Naturally, this will include what we want our club to achieve, the potential to do so, the current player strength/weaknesses and estimated asset value of the current squad, along with our investment expectations on new players during the course of the next five years in order to meet our objectives. Let''s parcel all of that in to as neat and effective a package that we can with a view to advertising it on the internet certainly throughout the UK target websites but also to other select parts of the world as well.  

[/quote]

Is it your intention to advertise this "neat package" on ebaY?  Does Delia & MWJ. know?

 

 

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I would simply suggest that it be made clear to Delia and Co. that they have to actively seek outside investment, since at the moment they are either not doing it or doing a godawful job of it.If they were to simply come out and say "we are selling the club" then I have no doubt that there would be interest, the myth she is clinging on so dearly to that there are no ''idiots'' looking to invest in loss-making Championship sides has been clearly and conclusively disporved to timely by our cousins down the road.Delia is, at the moment, try to treat the club as her own personal plaything, and her messages of ''they must be what''s right for the club'' are understandably putting potential investors off.The fact of the matter is, we need money, and we need new management. We have now gone full circle and the club is in a worse state than it was under Chase. 10 years of prudence with ambition HAS to be brought to an end before this great club falls down with a bump into League 2.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Let''s put a shadow Board together for the club made up ( for now ) of posters on this forum. Their charge will be to outline as complete a profile of our club as possible with a view to the club being up for sale. If, at a later date, it is felt appropriate to incorporate other associations such as NCISA, for example, then all well and good.

[/quote]

Either the directors of a UK company put the company up for sale or its get an approach from people wishing to buy it. The purchasers of the service, i.e. "entertainment" , who may not even be shareholders are not the people to complete a profile of this club ''with a view to the club being up for sale.'' In the event of NCFC Plc. being put up for sale, proper documents would be prepared and due dilligence by any buyer.  

 

 

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Finance Team - ......., the suspicion put forth by Mr. Carrow and Fat Prophet, it should be possible to put forth a fairly accurate reflection of our current position and future five year assessment.

[/quote]

Can they tell us now, what division we will be in next season (08/09) or any of the following four seasons  (09/10, 10/11, 11/12 and 12/13)? As that will effect the financial projections. Good luck!

 

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Of course, we don''t want to let them off the hook by not putting some dates around our need for a reply from them, so the Shadow Executive Team will have to establish timelines for package preparation as well as a response date from Delia and Michael. We would hope they would include in that response a price at which they would be willing to relinquish control.

[/quote]

Naive! Why would somone who owns 61% of a business inform anybody else of the price they would sell their holding at.

 

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Bloody Hell!

 Just about the most intelligent & imaginitive post I''ve seen on here - or anywhere else for that matter That should put the cat amongst the Smudgers.

Not convinced about your choice of CEO though; does modesty forbid???

 

P.S. It''s still "uninterested" not "disinterested" & still too many players display the former condition.

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Thats the best post that I''ve read on here for ages and at last someone has come up with a positive idea which we could all pull together and get involved in.

Not sure about your choice for CEO although as you say he''s a business consultant (so must be intelligent) and he feels strongly about the current regime so guess you''re right he is the natural choice.

I''m happy to get involved and do my bit and I bet others on here would be too.

 

Think this should be stickied mods!

 

 

 

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I thought Mumby had publicly stated that they are willing to sell to someone who has the interests of the club at heart but to my knowledge no one has expressed a serious public interest in buying the club.

I have suggested before that the critics use their energy to find a new buyer but none of them responded. I actually think they don''t want the directors to leave because then they would not have anyone to blame and moan about and then what would they do? Unfortunately it is a lot easier to complain about those who are more sucessful than themselves than to actually do anything.

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Yankee your first paragraph gives the game away and shows where you''re really coming from.  Your so-called "strategy" is merely an exceptionally longwinded way to try and take the heat off Delia & Co on this message board - which appears to be your mission in life, I know not why. 

It took nearly 18 months of concerted pressure to oust Robert Chase.  This time round, it''s true that a very few have seen this coming for ages but the penny has yet to drop in really substantial numbers.  If you think anyone is going to be flattered by seeing their name on your fantasy board of directors, you''re very wrong.  We''ve only just started Yankee, and if you think we''re going to fall for such a transparent diversionary tactic you''re very very wrong.

DELIA OUT!

 

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canary nut - what frustrates me is that anyone thinks that ncfc is a worthwhile financial investment. It is the last place I would put my money if I was looking to get a return. It is a hobby not a business. The shareholders would be doing well if they got their money back.

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[quote user="Fat Prophet"]

Yankee your first paragraph gives the game away and shows where you''re really coming from.  Your so-called "strategy" is merely an exceptionally longwinded way to try and take the heat off Delia & Co on this message board - which appears to be your mission in life, I know not why. 

It took nearly 18 months of concerted pressure to oust Robert Chase.  This time round, it''s true that a very few have seen this coming for ages but the penny has yet to drop in really substantial numbers.  If you think anyone is going to be flattered by seeing their name on your fantasy board of directors, you''re very wrong.  We''ve only just started Yankee, and if you think we''re going to fall for such a transparent diversionary tactic you''re very very wrong.

DELIA OUT!

 

[/quote]

And your proposed solution is ?

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Ok.  Our great club is in crisis.  Relegation to the third tier of English football looks likely.

 

More relevantly (since no one has a divine right either to be in the Championship, or the Premiership – someone’s got to go down to “League One”) we are underachieving, and have been for the last decade.   Based on average attendances, we are the second best supported club in the Championship (see http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html) and even on this season’s attendances we would rank 16th in the Premiership.     

 

Who’s to blame?    Well, it’s worth reminding ourselves that there doesn’t have to be anyone to blame.   Things just go wrong sometimes.    But with this level of underachievement being maintained over a decade, with not one single finish at a level commensurate with the club’s support, it is hard to escape the view that someone somewhere has got something badly wrong.  There seems to be a consensus on these boards that the Board is to blame.  

 

So, how do you go about “getting rid” of the Board?    The suggestion made in this thread is to put together a “shadow Board” made up of posters from these forums.  Well, credit to Yankee Canary, because it’s the first suggestion anyone’s made.  I’m not against it, because it may make people feel a bit better, and goodness knows we all need to feel a bit better.   But in terms of changing anything, it doesn’t get off the ground.   Norwich City Football Club is a plc, and governed by the Companies Acts, the Rules of the Stock Exchange, and the company’s Articles of Association.  There’s nothing in any of those that would force a majority shareholder to sell up because a shadow Board plays what (with respect) amounts to fantasy football on an internet site.   There’s also a risk that any shadow Board will provide a distraction for forces that could be more usefully applied elsewhere.

 

There are suggestions of a demonstration, People, if it makes you feel better, meet in the Murderers to discuss it before, after and during the Coventry match, and I’m not against that (as I say I’m all for people feeling better), but don’t for a moment think it’s gong to make a difference.  A few protesters doesn’t begin to put you in a position to mount a bid for control of a plc.   The only circumstances where public pressure can make a difference is where there is a take over bid in position, but the price offered is proving unattractive to the majority shareholders, and then public pressure can sometimes serve to make a price that had seemed unattractive seem rather more interesting.  Something similar happened at the end of the Chase era.   But the difference is that then, there were parties with hard cash bidding (more than one, actually). 

 

Does anyone have any hard evidence that this is the case here?  I’ve not seen any.  The Turners don’t seem minded to make a move, and in the final analysis there’s no blaming them for that.  It’s their money.

 

If you want to take control of a plc you need cash.  Not just to buy the shares.  It’s usual for the debt to be capable of being called in if the lenders don’t like the party taking over, so one needs to have someone of a financial stature that is likely to be acceptable to the lenders, or be prepared to buy out the debt.   If someone knows of a big investor who’s just waiting to be invited then by all means let’s hear it.   But the likely candidates, like Peter Cullum, have ruled themselves out.   And whilst some posters urge the Board to get out and find major investors, it’s a bit of a Catch 22 – if the Board don’t want a take over, they’re not exactly going to go and look for someone to mount a hostile takeover.  They might find someone who’s willing to put a bit of cash in for a seat on the Board, like the Turners, but as we’ve seen that’s scarcely a regime change.

 

In the absence of the Invisible Mega Investor, we’re left with the “Barcelona option”.   Buying the shares and then turning the club into a members’ club.  We’d have to do that, because if you just buy the share and spread them about more widely, we’re still vulnerable to some billionaire whose made money doing goodness knows what buying up a majority stake stealthily, and before you know it you’re one person’s plaything again.  But in a members’ club, each member has one vote and one vote only, there’s no buying up of shares to give anyone a majority.   And to answer the poster who wondered how all the members agree – they don’t.   Every couple of years, there’s an election for president, and then a vote of all the members.   Candidates campaign on their record (if already in office) or their plans (“Vote for me and I’ll bring Ronaldhino / David Beckham / Gary Docherty to the club”).    It would be a first in English football, and would attract massive publicity, raise the club’s profile, and probably help to make it an interesting place for players and coaches to come.   And we’d be the only fans in the country to own our own club, and NCFC would be the only club in England safe from foreign (or domestic) billionaire owners.

 

But, one would need the cash to buy the shares.   To turn the club into a members’ club, it would mean buying all of them (333,750).  Stock Exchange rules would require this anyway.  Don’t be misled by the par value of the shares – shares (like football clubs) can go up or down.   The majority shareholder at NCFC holds 61%.   One poster said it would take £9,000,000 to buy those shares.  I don’t know where that figure comes from; maybe it’s more, or less.  IF that were the figure for 61%, then it would take just under £15,000,000 to buy the lot.

 

On top of that one would have to be ready to clear the debt, in case the lenders were not quite so excited about this experiment in football club ownership and call the loans in.  Even if the terms of the loans don’t permit this, it’s probably wise to do that anyway, otherwise how does all this help? The figure quoted is usually £17,000,000.     So, that’s £32,000,000.

 

24,000 attend Carrow Road week in, week out.   Some, of course are children, but they plainly have parents capable of paying for their tickets.   I’m guessing – but don’t know, that there must be another 8,000 supporters “out there” who can’t make the games.   So, that’s 32,000 supporters, which would mean £1,000 each.

 

Is that achievable?   I doubt it.   Though I don’t see why it couldn’t be.   A thousand pounds is a huge amount, but it’s less than most of us spend on a car.   And yes, I know, in rural Norfolk we need a car, and we don’t need a successful NCFC (though, actually, that’s open to debate, I think Norfolk does).   But, look on the roads, few of us need the size and spec of cars we drive.  Plenty of people spend £1,000 on a holiday each year. One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   If we really want to make a difference, we’d have to mount a campaign to raise the money.    Start on these forums.    See how many posters would commit.  If there’s enough, then set up a website to start gathering pledges.  As someone pointed out, there’s already a campaign to buy a football club and turn it into a members’ club: if we launched a campaign it’s possible some of them would come across and join us.  Once you get a few hundred I’d bet there’d be no shortage of media interest, so publicity is likely to be easy.   And it would be positive publicity, showing Norfolk people’s support of and commitment to the club.  Players might even want to come here, you never know.   And it would be publicity that would put real pressure on the Board – the fact that people were pledging to put their money where their mouth is in order to buy back “our club” would show them in a rather interesting light.   They still couldn’t be compelled to sell, but it would  be very difficult for them to resist.  I wonder if the price might even come down, to show them in a good light, “handing their club back to the people”.  

 

Of course, if only half a dozen people are up for it, then the idea falls flat on its face.   I fear that’s the likely outcome.  But in the absence of an invisible fantasy investor, if we the fans aren’t prepared to put up, then we’ll just have to hope Glenn can pull off the great escape.  I shall be hoping and cheering for that anyway – but I’d be even more game for the “Barcelona” option.  Fifty years ago Barca built the Nou Camp with money in effect donated from their fans (they bought season tickets for five years).  If they can, why not us?  Over to you.

 

 

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[quote user="Steve Burns"]Arthur for Groundsman - he can get rid of all them nasty slugs!

[/quote]

ROFPMSFL [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

Think that''s the best description of Smudger I''ve ever heard [;)] [:D]

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[quote user="T"]canary nut - what frustrates me is that anyone thinks that ncfc is a worthwhile financial investment. It is the last place I would put my money if I was looking to get a return. It is a hobby not a business. The shareholders would be doing well if they got their money back.[/quote]

I suspect the reason why non football fans are buying clubs is that with a bit of pump priming they can get The Championship club into The Premiership and extract some or all of the approx. £60m related to a season in The Premiership and two season parachute receipts. Aquiring debt at a discount from a lender gives the purchaser of a club a means to extract money without having to pay dividends to a minority interest or pay tax on dividends. Of course it does help if the target club plays good football and has a reasonable chance of promotion to The Premiership.

 

Alternatively a club may be acquired, built up over a number of seasons and then sold on, e.g., Mandaric bought Portsmouth when they were in the old equivalent of The Championship and sold them at a profit  to someone else when they were in The Premiership. Birmingham look like another club about to be sold following a similar path.  Would you regard Portsmouth as being a bigger club than Norwich when Mandaric took them over? 

 

As for Norwich, if a land deal is concluded and the 30% of the hotel realised then that should provide the funds to pay off nearly all of the (non interest part) debt (excluding director loans and B Preference shares). If the approx. £2.5m servicing of the debt is removed and you add the extra Premiership funds of £400k (minimum) and the extra TV money (£1m+) then there really should be no reason why NCFC couldn''t break even (or even make a profit)  with a Championship side.

If NCFC. was to clear its debts then a capitalisation of roughly £16m. (535k ordinary shares @£30 each) is not unreasonable especially as it owns the Freehold to Carrow Rd and I believe Colney too). If the rumours are to be believed it appears that Evans has valued Ipswich in a sense at £20m (20% of the £40m debt = £8m to acquire the debt and £12m in new equity) and Portman Rd is leasehold.

 

So why is Ipswich getting the buyers attention and not us?                                                                     

A couple of reasons:

a) Ipswich are a much better prospect for gaining promotion to The Premiership than us.                          b) I suspect that Delia & MWJ. are trying to keep NCFC. out of the hands of speculators by putting on conditions on who they would sell to.

 

However if somebody did offer £30 per ordinary share that would value Delia''s & MWJ.  holdings of ordinary NCFC shares (as at 31/5/07) at  £9.8m. which if accepted, would presumably produce a good profit.   

 

Finally all the above is not to say that some people buy a football club as a hobby e.g., Chelsea but even that followed some logic as it was far cheaper to buy Chelsea and spend a few hundred million pounds on players than buy Manchester United. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

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Welcome to the forum empty mirror, good first post [Y]. I`d just like to point out though that anyone taking over the club would not HAVE to clear the £17million debt, but merely service it as it is secured against fixed assets etc.

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I don''t see why the current board would have a problem with supporters buying up to 11 per cent of the plc, along the lines that Barry Skipper mentioned in his statement pre-AGM.  Doing so could raise a million pounds or more for the club.  Unfortunately freeing up shares for purchase can only be done at an AGM.  If someone was to survey supporters on how much they would be willing to invest in shares in the club though, it could put pressure on the board to release shares next October.Gauging opinion on whether supporters would be willing to pledge the neccesary money could be fairly straightforward, as www.myfootballclub.co.uk have shown.  You''d just need a form with 2 pieces of information on it - an email address, and a pledge value.   A running total of number of pledges and total pledge value could be displayed on the site, which could never be totally accurate, but could give an indication of numbers.  Obviously this might attract a few hoaxers from down the A140, you could always attempt to limit this by asking for personal details.

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What would people think if we had a major invester at the club and kept Delia on board? All I want is to club to have money and be well run and ambitious,if we donr that and got rid of the chairman, Doomcaster and other dead wood. Don''t get me wrong, if we had an offer for the club and it meant that Delia had to go, then I would be ok with that but Delia is not sloely responsible for the current plight of the club, we have other board members etc to blame too.

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[quote user="Empty Mirror"]

 One poster has already offered to put up one thousand pounds.  I’ll second that.  So that’s two.   [/quote]

 

Make that three

 

And I''m serious

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Thank You, Thank you, Thank You!!  Fantastic post Empty Mirror, it saved me the bother of writing something very similar but doubtless less eloquent.  You can put me down for £1,000 but I fear your projection of about 6 of us will be all too correct.  The 7 or 8 half-wits that usually monopolise this board calling for protests and trying to de-rail the club further are thankfully absent from this thread although that is hardly surprising given that it has provided an intelligent and accurate account of the situation of the club and is trying to work out a solution.  Rather than standing outside the ground shouting at a brick wall like a small group on a day trip from the local asylum perhaps we could see some pledges of cash to actually achieve something.......nope, thought not!

No chance of doing a Barcalona I''m afraid as they are in effect a Catalan national team with a fanatical support that no other team including Juventus or Man Utd could dream about - but the idea still has legs on a smaller scale and could be made to work if there is anyone out there with enough internet skills to set up a web site and get things going.  Here''s hoping!

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

IT Expert - Someone who can take the inputs provided by the Shadow Executive team and put it into a succinct package on selected websites. I know there are talented people in this area on the forum. Perhaps some suggestions could be put forth as the best candidate.

[/quote]Well whether this idea will ever get off the ground, I don''t know. But I''ll put myself forward for that position, if anyone else wants to do so as well, that would be good, I think it would benifit from a group of minds. Anyway I''ve got qualifications in Computer Science so theoretically I should be up for the task [;)]Plus to prove that not all student are skint [:P], I would also being willing to put some money forwards.

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