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JOb number 1 for Monday : Renew Hartsons' Loan !

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Great awareness on the ball, a peach of a header to set Jamie Cureton up for his goal, surely Hartson has earnt a renewal of his loan if he wants it.  The only thing is, I''m not sure West Brom would want us to take him for longer, it was interesting to see Jim Magilton having a few words in his ear at the end too.  I hope that we can persuade Hartson to stay till the end of the season, as even if he can only play 45 minutes, it looks like he has what we need to turn games.

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Definitely - I would be annoyed if he came here to get fit(ter) then went back to the Albion.  But they can''t want him back, they have three strikers in the queue so he might as well stay here for a while longer if Roeder wants him.  Interesting that Martin, Brown and Strihavka couldn''t make the bench today.

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I forgot his ability to hold the ball while our attackers get up the pitch.  Lovely to watch, even if he does run in slow-motion and go a funny colour after 10 minutes.

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It''s like watching the Six Million Dollar Man again, when he used to run towards the bad guys in slow motion.  I''d like him to stay, if only to disprove the old adage about no player being bigger than the club.

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I have to say, i''m not convinced we''d have got anything out of the game with Dublin on in the 2nd half. Hartson can''t really run, and looks unfit, be he had a good touch and some suprising skill, and was crucial to our performance in the first 30 minutes of the 2nd half. Dublin always looks tired also, no more than Hartson, he also has less strength and skill than Hartson. You simply couldnt knock Big John off the ball. You could see in the 1st half that cureton was doing all the running, and i seem to remember their 1st goal or a decent chance coming from Dublin not closing down their centre half.  But then thats me being picky.

Well Done John!

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Agreed he holds the ball up superbly, has an awesome 1st touch and a good shot on him renew his loan but wouldnt be good business to buy him as i expect he would want high wages

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]I forgot his ability to hold the ball while our attackers get up the pitch.  Lovely to watch, even if he does run in slow-motion and go a funny colour after 10 minutes.[/quote]Ha you missed out his inability to spit properly, when ever the camera was on his he had spit in his mouth and kinda, sucked it back in rather than gob it out... think it was the half time pie that got him.

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Couldn''t agree more. He was for me more mobile (yes I said mobile) than Dublin up front. And he seemed to have a better understanding with Cureton. I felt one of the thing that we were struggling with was the link between our two front men in the first half today.

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I honestly wonder if we were watching the same game. After 10 minutes Hartson was out of puff and struggling to waddle back and fore. My friend commented that he was so large that he seemed to have his own gravitational field around him.

Yes, he held the ball up, yes he flicked it on for Jamie but if Dion had managed another 15-20 minutes in the second half we''d have won that game.

Look at when Hucks did that back heel for Hartson/whoever to run onto in the penalty area - Hartson was miles away and couldn''t chase it.

Hartson offers a one-dimensional option (target man) and i''d rather we had a striker who could do that AND run into the box to get onto the end of a cross.

Send him back after the month is up and get someone else in who can actually RUN.

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[quote user="jetstream"]I honestly wonder if we were watching the same game. After 10 minutes Hartson was out of puff and struggling to waddle back and fore. My friend commented that he was so large that he seemed to have his own gravitational field around him. Yes, he held the ball up, yes he flicked it on for Jamie but if Dion had managed another 15-20 minutes in the second half we''d have won that game. Look at when Hucks did that back heel for Hartson/whoever to run onto in the penalty area - Hartson was miles away and couldn''t chase it. Hartson offers a one-dimensional option (target man) and i''d rather we had a striker who could do that AND run into the box to get onto the end of a cross. Send him back after the month is up and get someone else in who can actually RUN.[/quote]

It was a shocking back heel which veered off to the keeper!

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[quote user="jetstream"]Yes, he held the ball up, yes he flicked it on for Jamie but if Dion had managed another 15-20 minutes in the second half we''d have lost that game.[/quote]

Corrected that for you.

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

[quote user="jetstream"]Yes, he held the ball up, yes he flicked it on for Jamie but if Dion had managed another 15-20 minutes in the second half we''d have lost that game.[/quote]

Corrected that for you.

[/quote]

Spot on GH

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Thanks for the correction, obviously we were watching a different game, as I said.How you can prefer Hartson to Dion is - in my opinion - rather strange. Dion is twice the player, he''s fitter despite being 6 years older.I must have missed Hartson chasing down the keeper, running from box-to-box and getting a header on target.Anyway, my point is that I would rather have a centre forward who can flick it on, hold it up, distribute the ball AND run around. Hartson is not that man.

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[quote]Anyway, my point is that I would rather have a centre forward who can

flick it on, hold it up, distribute the ball AND run around. Hartson is

not that man.[/quote]He sounds great, any idea where he is ?  And why he isn''t getting regular first team football ?

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Glen Roeder needs to sit John Hartson down and find out just how much desire he has left to play football. If he were to shed the excess weight and get fit he would be one of the best strikers in this division and certainly worth keeping for another few months. If he hasn''t got that desire then I think we should let him go, regardless of how well he played for 45 minutes yesterday.

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Lets not forget that Hartson hasn''t played for months.  If he can lose a bit of timber/and or improve his general fitness then I think that he could be good aquisition.  Anyone who has scored over 200 goals in his career (mostly top flight) must have something about him.  I thought he did well, immensly powerful...

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[quote user="jetstream"]Thanks for the correction, obviously we were watching a different game, as I said.

How you can prefer Hartson to Dion is - in my opinion - rather strange. Dion is twice the player, he''s fitter despite being 6 years older.

I must have missed Hartson chasing down the keeper, running from box-to-box and getting a header on target.

Anyway, my point is that I would rather have a centre forward who can flick it on, hold it up, distribute the ball AND run around. Hartson is not that man.

[/quote]

 

I am with GH on this one

Dions best position now is centre back.  

As an attacker he makes even an hugely over-weight hartson seem highly mobile.  Dion still has quality but we need more than his current impression of a last season Iwan,  only getting the ball when it is passed within a yard or so of him - outside of that he isnt mobile enough to make the ball his and use it well.  Our players are not good enough to give him that service.  Cureton for one benefited from having Hartson rather than Dion as a partner.

Dion is now not the best choice for centre forward or back - there are better options in all positions.  However he remains the perfect sub as he covers two positions effectively. 

 

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[quote user="jetstream"]I honestly wonder if we were watching the same game. After 10 minutes Hartson was out of puff and struggling to waddle back and fore. My friend commented that he was so large that he seemed to have his own gravitational field around him. Yes, he held the ball up, yes he flicked it on for Jamie but if Dion had managed another 15-20 minutes in the second half we''d have won that game. Look at when Hucks did that back heel for Hartson/whoever to run onto in the penalty area - Hartson was miles away and couldn''t chase it. Hartson offers a one-dimensional option (target man) and i''d rather we had a striker who could do that AND run into the box to get onto the end of a cross. Send him back after the month is up and get someone else in who can actually RUN.[/quote]

Thank God you said that jetstream, I thought I was on my own with my appraisel on Big H. It needed saying, and you said it, good call.

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[quote user="fuzzyfelt"]It''s like watching the Six Million Dollar Man again, when he used to run towards the bad guys in slow motion.  I''d like him to stay, if only to disprove the old adage about no player being bigger than the club.[/quote]

That is the funniest thing I have ever seen on this forum (apart from Smudger''s attempts at reasoned argument, obviously). Absolutely brilliant.

Agree with those who think Dublin is better at the back. At present, Hartson seems good for about 15 minutes, no more. If he''s not throwing up at the end of every training session then we''re not working him hard enough.

I remain a fan of Brown''s all-round play and hope that the arrival of a new manager sees him go from strength to strength. He''s still quite young and I think he has the potential to be a very good player for us.

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I''m gonna get slated for this but I think looks are deceptive. Dublin looks a far better player than Hartson because he looks like an athlete and Hartson looks like a Michelin Man. But on yesterdays evidence Hartson was more effective and he linked better with Cureton. That''s the second game running he has changed things in that way, at Burnley we made chances and scored after he came on. The only way I can describe what he did there to you who didn''t see it would be to say that he stood on the penalty spot with the ball at his feet for what seemed like ages, it seemed like the whole Burnley team tried to get the ball but couldn''t get near it, he finally laid it off to Brown who scored. It''s not pretty or elegant but as the Bristol City manager said - he''s difficult to mark even when he is stood still.

I think we should sign him up because he changes games from the bench.

 

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[quote user="Robert no longer in Manila"]

I remain a fan of Brown''s all-round play and hope that the arrival of a new manager sees him go from strength to strength. He''s still quite young and I think he has the potential to be a very good player for us.

[/quote]

I echo that entirely.  I hope the temporary suspension of hostilities towards the team extends to Brown who, for all his lack of goals, looks to be an intelligent and mobile front man (and somebody who plays with his head up, rather than down).

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"He sounds great, any idea where he is ? And why he isn''t getting regular first team football ?"

Shola Ameobi at Newcastle for one

Not playing because he has Viduka, Owen and Martins ahead of him in pecking order.

Perhaps that''s an unrealistic example but I''m sure there are others out there who wouldn''t cost THAT much more than Hartson.

Send Big Dave or Chris Brown out on loan as well and we can save some wages there too.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m gonna get slated for this but I think looks are deceptive. Dublin looks a far better player than Hartson because he looks like an athlete and Hartson looks like a Michelin Man. But on yesterdays evidence Hartson was more effective and he linked better with Cureton. That''s the second game running he has changed things in that way, at Burnley we made chances and scored after he came on. The only way I can describe what he did there to you who didn''t see it would be to say that he stood on the penalty spot with the ball at his feet for what seemed like ages, it seemed like the whole Burnley team tried to get the ball but couldn''t get near it, he finally laid it off to Brown who scored. It''s not pretty or elegant but as the Bristol City manager said - he''s difficult to mark even when he is stood still.

I think we should sign him up because he changes games from the bench.

[/quote]

I think you''re probably right about him being more effective than Dion at the moment but my problem with him is that he''s effectively taking up two places in the squad.

If you start with Hartson then you have to plan for the fact that he will not last ninety minutes so you really need a replacement for him on the bench (Dion/Brown) plus another stiking option in case anything happens to Cureton. If Hartson starts on the bench then that presents another risk in my opinion. What would have happened if Dion had have got injured after fifteen minutes yesterday? There''s no way that Hartson would have lasted 75 minutes (he looked as if he was struggling after about 30 yesterday) and you couldn''t really play with Hucks and Cureton as a front two. So you may well need a second target man on the bench (Brown) which leaves us short of cover in other areas.

Having said that, he has looked a threat in every game he''s played so perhaps we should just ignore the risks, sign him up for another few months and see what happens. The real shame is that somebody with his talent has effectively ended his career at 32 because he can''t keep his weight down.

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I cannot believe what I am hearing about Brown.

Yes he works really hard and always gives 100% percent but I honestly dont think Norwich have had a less effective striker in the last 20 years. He has had far too much game time already this season whereas Strihavka can hold the ball up much better and actually win headers and get the ball to a yellow shirt.

I really dont think he has been given a fair chance compared to Brown.

I think the only hope for Brown is to be put in the reserves and brought back when he has scored a few goals.

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