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Mason 47

The final nail

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So we signed John Hartson. ''hm?'' the general City fan contingent say.

Then some clever chap points out ''how can we have signed him without a manager?''. Good point.

This means we have

a) already got a new manager and he has picked Hartson out and they havent told us yet

b) decided that the job is bound for Duffy, this is his first signing and     they havent told us yet

c) have just let Duffy get a striker in

I am praying that it is C, but I am beginning to dread that its going to be B. It was never going to be A, I was just trying my Neil Doncaster impression out.

However, should the Board decide that this should be the case, that will that deadly final nail. Grant, fine he didnt work and it was wrong to appoint a rookie. It will be worse to appoint Duffy, it represents the biggest negative move ever!

Its the easy, cheap, quickfix option that will absolutely kill the Board once and for all. Especially after being linked with good managers for once, but they never seem to make it here do they.

I dont like the thought of how it must feel having 20,000+ people shouting at you every other saturday, but if they appoint Duffy as manager I will join the ''Board Out'' gang because they will have finally proved THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL.

Thats how it falls out the Bucket

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And Duffy has had how many games in charge for you to be able to make the statement that he is no good, for all we know we could win our next 5 games or whatever with him in charge, then what eh?

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i pretty sure its wont be b

cant see norwich taking another big risk maybe smaller one on say ince, penney

but they wont have duffy - im 98% sure

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[quote user="we8wba"]

i pretty sure its wont be b

cant see norwich taking another big risk maybe smaller one on say ince, penney

but they wont have duffy - im 98% sure

[/quote]

 

I pray that u r right!

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He has been the manager of 2 Scottish clubs that have been relegated, I think that tells us everything we need to know about him.

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Being honest I wouldn''t want Duffy to take over either, however I do think too much is being made of his previous appointments.Whilst his first spell at Dundee was fairly average, he did manage to get them to the Scottish League Cup final.He had an awful spell at Hibs, but on return to Dundee did a pretty decent job, averaging just over a 40% win ratio.The fact that he was also brought into coaching roles at two Premiership clubs - namely Portsmouth and Chelsea, suggests that they thought he had some ability (albeit as a coach).So I don''t think he''d be as bad as he''s being made out to be, but is still far from my first choice list.

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Duffy has had a big say in where we are now. He''s been part of the management team thats guided us into the bottom three ffs.

Not Duffy. Not now. Not ever. No-how !!  

 

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Being honest I wouldn''t want Duffy to take over either, however I do think too much is being made of his previous appointments.

Whilst his first spell at Dundee was fairly average, he did manage to get them to the Scottish League Cup final.

He had an awful spell at Hibs, but on return to Dundee did a pretty decent job, averaging just over a 40% win ratio.

The fact that he was also brought into coaching roles at two Premiership clubs - namely Portsmouth and Chelsea, suggests that they thought he had some ability (albeit as a coach).

So I don''t think he''d be as bad as he''s being made out to be, but is still far from my first choice list.
[/quote]

Not true Indy...

http://www.soccerbase.com/managers2.sd?managerid=1529

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
Dundee 04-07-2002 02-09-2005 142446038
Hibernian 30-12-1996 02-02-1998 4682315
Dundee 01-08-1993 29-12-1996 137573842

he did ok during his first spell at Dundee after relegating them in his first season in charge.  He failed to get them promoted to the Scottish Premier with a talented team however.  Yes he had a good cup run. 

He had a disastrous time at Hibs, relegating them too.

He returned to Dundee and again relegated them after finishing bottom after two mid table finishes.

He has 3 relegations and no promotions under his belt.  Twice he relegated Dundee and once he relegated Hibernian.  In fact he has relegated a club during each of his managerial stints.

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CJF,

The method I approached this with was regards to win ratio which I think is a key factor in managerial success

Duffy''s win ratio is virtually as good as many of the previous Norwich ''legends'' such as Stringer and Walker, who clearly had a far superior team at their disposal than Duffy did, and in a far more competitive league.

The Hibs ratio was admittedly dire, and McLeish did a better job when he came in, if you compared previous win ratio''s between McLeish and Duffy, you''d have to have gone with Duffy who had an 8% better ratio than McLeish.

The key factor here is that as a statistic on their own they do not guarantee performance, as obviously areas such as the condition of the team when the manager took over, what funds were available, what injuries were suffered etc, have an impact on this, but as a general guideline, it''s not a particularly poor indicator.

If a new manager came in here now and was unable to turn things around for a number of reasons, then we''d be relegated, a fact which would go down against the new manager, even if the circumstances of this meant that there was little they could actually do to prevent the situation occuring.

We''d need to have a real in-depth analysis of the situations at Dundee and Hibs before we could fairly judge Duffy''s performance as a manager, because as pointed out, stats only provide one small facet of the overall image, and without these other images it''s pretty unfair to judge on such a small picture.

I still don''t want him as manager however...

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Being honest I wouldn''t want Duffy to take over either, however I do think too much is being made of his previous appointments.Whilst his first spell at Dundee was fairly average, he did manage to get them to the Scottish League Cup final.He had an awful spell at Hibs, but on return to Dundee did a pretty decent job, averaging just over a 40% win ratio.The fact that he was also brought into coaching roles at two Premiership clubs - namely Portsmouth and Chelsea, suggests that they thought he had some ability (albeit as a coach).So I don''t think he''d be as bad as he''s being made out to be, but is still far from my first choice list.[/quote]

Not true Indy...

http://www.soccerbase.com/managers2.sd?managerid=1529

TeamFromToGamesWonLostDrawn
Dundee 04-07-2002 02-09-2005 142446038
Hibernian 30-12-1996 02-02-1998 4682315
Dundee 01-08-1993 29-12-1996 137573842

he did ok during his first spell at Dundee after relegating them in his first season in charge.  He failed to get them promoted to the Scottish Premier with a talented team however.  Yes he had a good cup run. 

He had a disastrous time at Hibs, relegating them too.

He returned to Dundee and again relegated them after finishing bottom after two mid table finishes.

He has 3 relegations and no promotions under his belt.  Twice he relegated Dundee and once he relegated Hibernian.  In fact he has relegated a club during each of his managerial stints.

[/quote]good cis work cfbe afraid - be very afraid, if duffy stays beyond next thursday.

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[quote user="Two Tails"]And Duffy has had how many games in charge for you to be able to make the statement that he is no good, for all we know we could win our next 5 games or whatever with him in charge, then what eh?
[/quote]

Here we go again...........already the sheep and apologists gather just in case their hero Duffo The Clown is giving the job. If this disaster does happen, will the last fan leaving Carrow Road please swith the lights off.

Because by then, the club will be dead and buried!.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Two Tails"]And Duffy has had how many games in charge for you to be able to make the statement that he is no good, for all we know we could win our next 5 games or whatever with him in charge, then what eh?
[/quote]

Here we go again...........already the sheep and apologists gather just in case their hero Duffo The Clown is giving the job. If this disaster does happen, will the last fan leaving Carrow Road please swith the lights off.

Because by then, the club will be dead and buried!.

[/quote]

Did he say he wanted him to get the job? No. I think it''s perfectly reasonable to say he should have a chance while he is in charge (even if it''s not for very long) regardless of his track record elsewhere (which is awful). If he DID win 5 in a row, for example, surely he would deserve a bit longer?

And no, I don''t want him here. I''m only saying this for the sake of argument.

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Re: Duffy, we want someone who has the ability and experience of managing a team which has been promoted. I don''t want someone who has the knowledge of how to get a get a team relegated!

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If Duffy does get the job I hope he is given time....and the chance to build his own squad........

There...I just thought I''d trot this crap out before the apologists do so. This also applies to any other lame arse our laughable board choose to put in place.....

 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Two Tails"]And Duffy has had how many games in charge for you to be able to make the statement that he is no good, for all we know we could win our next 5 games or whatever with him in charge, then what eh?
[/quote]

Here we go again...........already the sheep and apologists gather just in case their hero Duffo The Clown is giving the job. If this disaster does happen, will the last fan leaving Carrow Road please swith the lights off.

Because by then, the club will be dead and buried!.

[/quote]

No, I think it is more a case of giving whoever is appointed a chance to see how they do before deciding they are rubbish.  But no, I was forgetting - such a suggestion is not in the Nancy Negatives remit of "everything the club does is crap".  It follows that whoever is given the job won''t even be given a game before they are deemed a disaster.  And, sadly, the fact that we supporters can''t agree what we want plays right into this idea: whoever it is will have their detractors right from the off and the anti- bandwagon will already be rolling.

I have yet to meet anyone who wants Duffy as permanent manager - and before anyone slags me off, neither do I, particularly - but someone has to take the reins until an appointment is made and there isn''t really anyone else there to do it. 

It does seem that the most likely scenario is that someone else will be appointed before the AGM, but if we did have to play games under Duffy and - however unlikely it might seem - things were clearly showing an upturn, ie the players were suddenly interested, scoring for fun and we went on a decent run of wins, in those circumstances it would surely be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face to not even give him a go.

 

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

[quote user="Two Tails"]And Duffy has had how many games in charge for you to be able to make the statement that he is no good, for all we know we could win our next 5 games or whatever with him in charge, then what eh?
[/quote]

Here we go again...........already the sheep and apologists gather just in case their hero Duffo The Clown is giving the job. If this disaster does happen, will the last fan leaving Carrow Road please swith the lights off.

Because by then, the club will be dead and buried!.

[/quote]

Did he say he wanted him to get the job? No. I think it''s perfectly reasonable to say he should have a chance while he is in charge (even if it''s not for very long) regardless of his track record elsewhere (which is awful). If he DID win 5 in a row, for example, surely he would deserve a bit longer?

And no, I don''t want him here. I''m only saying this for the sake of argument.

[/quote]

I don''t think anybody has suggested Duffy should get the job Wiz and I can''t believe the board would appoint him. Trouble is what happens if the players respond to him and we start winning games. We may not have the choice that people imagine we have or there maybe changes imminent in the boardroom. It could be that the timing means we have to wait a while before commiting to another manager.

However, this if we win 5 in a row is a bit far fetched when you consider our next 5 games are Bristol, piswich and Watford at home and Burnely and West Brom away. If we won all those what would that say about the players prerformances so far this season!

Walker and Worthingtons elevation to manager from within the club were greeted with derision from the fans at the time with howls of protest about no ambition and cheap option. But they worked out OK. However I can''t imagine it working out the same for Duffy but we stuill want to win the next 5 games.... don''t we?? [*-)]

 

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]I remember Worthy ''blagging'' the job under similar circumstances Graham, hmm?[:|][/quote]

So was Worthy getting the job a bad thing?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]I remember Worthy ''blagging'' the job under similar circumstances Graham, hmm?[:|][/quote]

So was Worthy getting the job a bad thing?

[/quote].

Worthy''s detractors do seem to rather forget that he took us to the play-off final and also promotion; he did go stale and needed to go, but no one can surely doubt that his first 3 seasons were a success - and few were complaining at the time. 

Appointing from within does always seem the cheap option and often meets derision, but it can also be the best choice as the ''new'' manager knows the squad, its strengths, weaknesses and problems better than anyone new coming in.  Walker and Stringer are prime examples of when this paid off.  I still wouldn''t personally go for Duffy, but it might work and we should keep an open mind and give whoever gets the position a chance.

 

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