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BlyBlyBabes

Maybe the main problem is MWJ, not DWJ?

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Anybody ever explore that angle?

Isn''t MWJ just as much a ''majority shareholder'' - just like DWJ. Pari passu & all that?

DWJ''s persona, money and views on ''our club'' and ''fooball'' have been ''done to death'' really, but what about the other half - what about his persona, what are his views. Who really wears the pants? Who is this ''co-guardian of our club pro temp''?

I hear that MWJ half is more than a bit lippy, for example.

Room for another line of enquiry into the attitudes and failures of our club, I would have thought.

Anybody game?

Just asking.

OTBC

 

 

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Apparently not.

The gentleman is the equal majority shareholder  with his wife. But it''s all her fault?

Ah well.

OTBC

 

[/quote]

I''m afraid that this is far too subtle an analysis for the Manicheans amongst us BBB. [;)]

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Here''s a thought, maybe the main problem is not entirely anyone, maybe, just maybe, it''s a combination of many things over the last few seasons, such as the transfer window system, increased player-power due to legal rulings like Bosman, ridiculous money being thrown at the Premiership by Sky, Setanta, and Virgin, the draw against Crystal Palace in the first Premiership home game, the six-niller against Fulham,  Dean Ashton sulking instead of playing in the post-relegation season, Earnshaw being forced to live off the long-ball, Dave Cotterill signing for Wigan on the same day that Leon McKenzie vowed never to play for Norwich again, injuries to key players at the worst possible time this season and last, those new-fangled boots that seem to cause an infinite number of ankle ligament injuries, ridiculous money being quoted for loan signings for replacements to key players that get injured, the current manager being over-critical of players when they''ve been performing, the previous manager being over-protective of players when they haven''t been performing, both managers buying some duff players, and who doesn''t, the board of directors (not just the cook or her husband) failing to buy Derbys'' player of last season Steve Howard, the board of directors pushing 3 or 4 million more than was arguably sensible into long-term money earners to create cash-flow and getting caught out by player wage inflation, or a lack of confidence in the current players that we rely upon to pull the trigger in front of goal or make a killer pass.  Not to mention 101 million other things that either don''t make the public domain or that I couldn''t remember.Or we could just blame that cook or her husband - let''s do that then, it''s easier.It''s a team game Bly.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]Here''s a thought, maybe the main problem is not entirely anyone, maybe, just maybe, it''s a combination of many things over the last few seasons, such as the transfer window system, increased player-power due to legal rulings like Bosman, ridiculous money being thrown at the Premiership by Sky, Setanta, and Virgin, the draw against Crystal Palace in the first Premiership home game, the six-niller against Fulham,  Dean Ashton sulking instead of playing in the post-relegation season, Earnshaw being forced to live off the long-ball, Dave Cotterill signing for Wigan on the same day that Leon McKenzie vowed never to play for Norwich again, injuries to key players at the worst possible time this season and last, those new-fangled boots that seem to cause an infinite number of ankle ligament injuries, ridiculous money being quoted for loan signings for replacements to key players that get injured, the current manager being over-critical of players when they''ve been performing, the previous manager being over-protective of players when they haven''t been performing, both managers buying some duff players, and who doesn''t, the board of directors (not just the cook or her husband) failing to buy Derbys'' player of last season Steve Howard, the board of directors pushing 3 or 4 million more than was arguably sensible into long-term money earners to create cash-flow and getting caught out by player wage inflation, or a lack of confidence in the current players that we rely upon to pull the trigger in front of goal or make a killer pass.  Not to mention 101 million other things that either don''t make the public domain or that I couldn''t remember.

Or we could just blame that cook or her husband - let''s do that then, it''s easier.

It''s a team game Bly.
[/quote]

Exactly!

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Anybody ever explore that angle?

Isn''t MWJ just as much a ''majority shareholder'' - just like DWJ. Pari passu & all that?

DWJ''s persona, money and views on ''our club'' and ''fooball'' have been ''done to death'' really, but what about the other half - what about his persona, what are his views. Who really wears the pants? Who is this ''co-guardian of our club pro temp''?

I hear that MWJ half is more than a bit lippy, for example.

Room for another line of enquiry into the attitudes and failures of our club, I would have thought.

Anybody game?

Just asking.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote]

oh?  What have you heard BlyBly???

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]Here''s a thought, maybe the main problem is not entirely anyone, maybe, just maybe, it''s a combination of many things over the last few seasons, such as the transfer window system, increased player-power due to legal rulings like Bosman, ridiculous money being thrown at the Premiership by Sky, Setanta, and Virgin, the draw against Crystal Palace in the first Premiership home game, the six-niller against Fulham,  Dean Ashton sulking instead of playing in the post-relegation season, Earnshaw being forced to live off the long-ball, Dave Cotterill signing for Wigan on the same day that Leon McKenzie vowed never to play for Norwich again, injuries to key players at the worst possible time this season and last, those new-fangled boots that seem to cause an infinite number of ankle ligament injuries, ridiculous money being quoted for loan signings for replacements to key players that get injured, the current manager being over-critical of players when they''ve been performing, the previous manager being over-protective of players when they haven''t been performing, both managers buying some duff players, and who doesn''t, the board of directors (not just the cook or her husband) failing to buy Derbys'' player of last season Steve Howard, the board of directors pushing 3 or 4 million more than was arguably sensible into long-term money earners to create cash-flow and getting caught out by player wage inflation, or a lack of confidence in the current players that we rely upon to pull the trigger in front of goal or make a killer pass.  Not to mention 101 million other things that either don''t make the public domain or that I couldn''t remember.Or we could just blame that cook or her husband - let''s do that then, it''s easier.It''s a team game Bly.[/quote]Truly a thing of wonder, Blah... [:)]I''ve long sensed that the problem, and my own sense of disatisfaction, has been down to a number of factors rather than just one, hence my opposition to "board protests", and you''ve pretty much hit all those nails on the head... you may want to add "failing to hold the 3-1 lead at Selhurst Park" to that list, though...

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[quote user="macdougalls perm"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Here''s a thought, maybe the main problem is not entirely anyone, maybe, just maybe, it''s a combination of many things over the last few seasons, such as the transfer window system, increased player-power due to legal rulings like Bosman, ridiculous money being thrown at the Premiership by Sky, Setanta, and Virgin, the draw against Crystal Palace in the first Premiership home game, the six-niller against Fulham,  Dean Ashton sulking instead of playing in the post-relegation season, Earnshaw being forced to live off the long-ball, Dave Cotterill signing for Wigan on the same day that Leon McKenzie vowed never to play for Norwich again, injuries to key players at the worst possible time this season and last, those new-fangled boots that seem to cause an infinite number of ankle ligament injuries, ridiculous money being quoted for loan signings for replacements to key players that get injured, the current manager being over-critical of players when they''ve been performing, the previous manager being over-protective of players when they haven''t been performing, both managers buying some duff players, and who doesn''t, the board of directors (not just the cook or her husband) failing to buy Derbys'' player of last season Steve Howard, the board of directors pushing 3 or 4 million more than was arguably sensible into long-term money earners to create cash-flow and getting caught out by player wage inflation, or a lack of confidence in the current players that we rely upon to pull the trigger in front of goal or make a killer pass.  Not to mention 101 million other things that either don''t make the public domain or that I couldn''t remember.

Or we could just blame that cook or her husband - let''s do that then, it''s easier.

It''s a team game Bly.
[/quote]

Exactly!

[/quote]

Sorry Blah & mcd.

Exactly wrong.

The buck stops at the top. Modern ''team'' approach, or not.

Grant on the football side.

Doncaster on the administrative side.

(Munby is a puppet chirman. Doesn''t count.)

And DWJ and MWJ overall.

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="macdougalls perm"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Here''s a thought, maybe the main problem is not entirely anyone, maybe, just maybe, it''s a combination of many things over the last few seasons, such as the transfer window system, increased player-power due to legal rulings like Bosman, ridiculous money being thrown at the Premiership by Sky, Setanta, and Virgin, the draw against Crystal Palace in the first Premiership home game, the six-niller against Fulham,  Dean Ashton sulking instead of playing in the post-relegation season, Earnshaw being forced to live off the long-ball, Dave Cotterill signing for Wigan on the same day that Leon McKenzie vowed never to play for Norwich again, injuries to key players at the worst possible time this season and last, those new-fangled boots that seem to cause an infinite number of ankle ligament injuries, ridiculous money being quoted for loan signings for replacements to key players that get injured, the current manager being over-critical of players when they''ve been performing, the previous manager being over-protective of players when they haven''t been performing, both managers buying some duff players, and who doesn''t, the board of directors (not just the cook or her husband) failing to buy Derbys'' player of last season Steve Howard, the board of directors pushing 3 or 4 million more than was arguably sensible into long-term money earners to create cash-flow and getting caught out by player wage inflation, or a lack of confidence in the current players that we rely upon to pull the trigger in front of goal or make a killer pass.  Not to mention 101 million other things that either don''t make the public domain or that I couldn''t remember.

Or we could just blame that cook or her husband - let''s do that then, it''s easier.

It''s a team game Bly.
[/quote]

Exactly!

[/quote]

I''m with blah; can see where BBB is coming from, but I just don''t agree. 

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[quote]Sorry Blah & mcd.

Exactly wrong.

The buck stops at the top. Modern ''team'' approach, or not.

Grant on the football side.

Doncaster on the administrative side.

(Munby is a puppet chirman. Doesn''t count.)

And DWJ and MWJ overall.[/quote]

Well, when you''re that lazy about seeking the cause of the problems, the solutions are obvious, arent they. [:|]

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Blahx3 - the most intelligent post I have seen in a long time. I''m afraid the underlying message may too subtle for many. The world is complex but blame is simple. And who better to blame than someone more rich and successful than you are.

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Folks.

Of course there is a multitude of problems.

But this thread seeks to look at what could be the main problem. Not address the details.

A leaders duty is to be able to cut through the undergrowth, lock eyes on the destination, strategise, and organise to get there in a safe and timely fashion.

But who is really the captain of NCFC? Which of the controlling shareholders? DWJ or MWJ? Have we ever analysed this?

OTBC

 

 

 

 

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[quote]But this thread seeks to look at what could be the main problem. Not address the details.[/quote]

Ok Bly.  In my opinion, the main problem is that the board of directors, in attempting to create extra money for the club, a parachute payment every season out of the parachute payments we''ve had if you will, have cut player wages to the bone in the short-term.  I don''t believe that any individual took this decision, it is a group decision.  Group thinking can lead individuals down cul-de-sacs that they wouldn''t normally take.

A solution could be to spend 2 million pounds on 3 season long loans which could give us a top 10 capable team.  But the board are unlikely to sanction this if they believe that Grant is the wrong man to spend that money and get the result required from that money, e.g. a top 6 finish.  If we can''t get into the play-offs, this board are unlikely to gamble.  The fact is that the longer this situation continues for, the less games there are left in the season, the less likely they are to spend, the more likely we are to struggle in this league.

In brief, the problem is a lack of money, and the solution is to spend more.  Just like everyone else does.  We won''t do this, because we''re run as a "not-for-profit" business, not a money-pit.

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So Blah. They wasted the cash mountain from the brief Prem escapade. And now you''re complaining, sympatico, that NCFC is not a money pit?

The leader of an organisation has to take responsibility for abject failure. It''s the just the way it is. Off with their heads. The queen may reign, but does not rule. Popular pressure and market forces eventually rule. You wait and see.

The problem is that the two of them may cling on so long that they will send our club into an even more dangerous downward spiral.

A story that I have heard is that DWJ wants to sell, but MWJ doesn''t. Deadlock - and all that implies.

OTBC

 

 

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[quote user="T"]Blahx3 - the most intelligent post I have seen in a long time. I''m afraid the underlying message may too subtle for many. The world is complex but blame is simple. And who better to blame than someone more rich and successful than you are.[/quote]

They may be rich and successful........but are they really happy?

I know people with nothing, but have their health and the basics to get by, and they would always prefer that lifestyle - than being rich and having all those ''true friends'' to party and socialise with.

What you never have, you never miss. Work to live, not live to work....

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Well, I  did say this a long time ago but nobody seemed to take notice at the time.  DWJ is the main man - Delia is a figurehead, he is the driving force, its him making the major decisions, not her.

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Anybody ever explore that angle?

Isn''t MWJ just as much a ''majority shareholder'' - just like DWJ. Pari passu & all that?

DWJ''s persona, money and views on ''our club'' and ''fooball'' have been ''done to death'' really, but what about the other half - what about his persona, what are his views. Who really wears the pants? Who is this ''co-guardian of our club pro temp''?

I hear that MWJ half is more than a bit lippy, for example.

Room for another line of enquiry into the attitudes and failures of our club, I would have thought.

Anybody game?

Just asking.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote]

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[quote]So Blah. They wasted the cash mountain from the brief Prem escapade.

And now you''re complaining, sympatico, that NCFC is not a money pit?[/quote]I would say invested the cash, in order to create more cash at a later date.  It''s what happens in the short to medium term that is the problem.  I am observing, not complaining that most other teams that do well in this division are money pits.[quote]A story that I have heard is that DWJ wants to sell, but MWJ doesn''t. Deadlock - and all that implies.[/quote]That''s the thing with stories, they''re easy to create, and far more difficult to confirm.  Not that I''m suggesting you would do such a thing Bly, I''m sure you are good to your word.

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"A story that I have heard is that DWJ wants to sell, but MWJ doesn''t. Deadlock - and all that implies."

Well BBB to whom would they sell on their shareholding? There doesn''t appear to be be anyone knocking at the door at the moment and in the current febrile atmosphere it wouldn''t take much to exert irresistable pressure through the fans/press etc if an approach was rebuffed secretly.

And would it really change anything, with the clubs current convuluted financial affiars, anyway? Would it change any of the factors in blahx3''s excellent post?

I am not saying it shouldn''t happen, I just cant see how it would happen.

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[quote user="JC"]

Well, I  did say this a long time ago but nobody seemed to take notice at the time.  DWJ is the main man - Delia is a figurehead, he is the driving force, its him making the major decisions, not her.

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Anybody ever explore that angle?

Isn''t MWJ just as much a ''majority shareholder'' - just like DWJ. Pari passu & all that?

DWJ''s persona, money and views on ''our club'' and ''fooball'' have been ''done to death'' really, but what about the other half - what about his persona, what are his views. Who really wears the pants? Who is this ''co-guardian of our club pro temp''?

I hear that MWJ half is more than a bit lippy, for example.

Room for another line of enquiry into the attitudes and failures of our club, I would have thought.

Anybody game?

Just asking.

OTBC

[/quote][/quote]

You''re obviously not a married man then, JC ?.........

 

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