NCFC - what's wrong?

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

Sorry for the long post, but I just had to say it all!

A year on from Worthy''s sacking - we have clearly got worse, obviously.  He had to go though he had as we all know ran his course and I think we''d have been relegated without sacking him.  Losing key players (no matter what people think of them or the reasons they left) like Etuhu, Safri, Earnshaw this summer clearly has made a difference.  That said I didn''t think Etuhu would be missed, but a bad Etuhu is better than what we''ve got at the moment.

Do I think Grant should go?  No, he needs at least a full season.  I think also that the problem is so deep rooted even someone like Mourinho would struggle to improve things.  Sacking him will just make the problem worse imo.

Ever since we won the division in 2004, there has been something not right with Norwich.  The premiership was poor, and it''s just got worse since then.  I know a lot of us (me included) didn''t rate the majority of worthy''s signings since promotion, but why did so few of them settle and leave within a year or 2?  Also I don''t understand why the confidence is so fragile.  After a fine start last season, who would have thought that the 3-0 defeat at Coventry was the start of the end of Worthy''s time - I think we conceded something like 14 goals in 5 league games up to and including Burnley.

Grant as we know inherited a completely inbalanced squad, no strength in depth at all with only the odd bit of quality.  You would hope the board would have seen that and given grant a decent budget to work with, but despite that and making a good profit on sales, they haven''t.  Yes Grant has bought 9 or whatever players in, but the fact of the matter is that he just had to, whatever budget he had.  I know we didn''t get the centre half we desperately, and I''m sure he wants a centre half, but I agree what''s the point of getting someone either no better than what we''ve got or way to expensive.  Some people will just whinge and complain anyway.

The day Grant walked in I don''t think he realised what a massive job he had on his hands.  In some ways impossible.  Now I think he knows only to well he''s got a very tough job.  He''s criticised players in the past, and does seem to leave some out, but if all he did was complain about the team what would it achieve?  He has to encourage them.

I''m really not sure what the actual problem is.  The board should take a lot of the blame, for not releasing enough funds.  I''m not sayin millions, but I doubt even £1-£1.5m more (including wages) in the last few years would affect the finances so much we do a ''Leeds, Bradford or Ipswich'' as the board like to say they are not prepared to do.  I can understand them wanting to invest in as many things as possible to create revenue, as it should help the club.  But not to the extent the football team suffers so much we are at the stage where people for 18 months have thought about us having to just think about avoiding relegation and not having any realistic ambition of promotion.  They are the ones who have dragged us this low. 

However I don''t think you can just ''sack the board'' as they are the ones who run the club and own it.  Also they would need replacing, and that will only happen with a take over.  That is unlikely to happen anytime soon.  Yes we still have 24000 people every week and we know we have a lot of potential, but really what else is there that could attract a takeover?  Also we know Delia''s stance on that.

The club are in a total utter mess.  It hurts, it really does.  All I''ve ever known in football is Norwich City.  I used to be proud to support Norwich even though I''ve always received stick, but yesterday as I left Molineux I was glad it wasn''t obvious I''m a Norwich fan, for the first time ever.  Who''d have thought the day we won promotion the club would be where it is now?  I don''t think any of us did.  I thought maybe we would get relegated and possibly not get straight back up, or back up at all.  But I didn''t think it would be as bad as it is now.

As a Norwich fan I don''t care if they win, lose or draw.  I just want to see a team with fighting spirit, commitment, pride in the shirt working together as a team giving 100%.  When that happens I will love being a Norwich fan again.

I''ve been to well over 200 games in my time, and yesterday was the worst I have ever seen.  It beats Fulham any day of the week.

What next for Norwich City, where do we go from here?

[Salopian 1]

We have a better squad, although with few stars and virtually none if Hux cannot recover his best. That we have no stars is because the new players have been obtained on a shoe string. I think that Grant/Duffy/Gunn have performed wonders in getting rid of deadwood and bringing in competent replacements.Perhaps more would have been spent and more outstanding signings made if players had been prepared to come to Norwich and we had been prepared to outbid other clubs in transfer fees and wages (e.g. Varney).If what we have is an intermediate stage in re-building, (-with our budget limitations and just the one summer to replace players who were contributing nothing), then we can look forward to more clear-outs in 2008 (Doherty, Halliday, Jarvis[es], Eagle, etc.), and hopefully few but more outstanding players brought in.Only clubs with buckets of money can hope to build immediate success. In our promotion season it was the Hux factor which surprisngly(?) made us champions and arguably before we had the squad to stay up. Given our resources, our approach has to be more patient. I think that we have made progress with the squad in the last six months, and I hope that this will become apparent when injuries an supensions are over.

[YellowIce 0]

But the question is with the gap between the prem and championship becoming so much bigger and the relegated clubs coming down with large budgets (i.e birmingham buying up a lot of good champioship players when they came down like mcsheffery and jerome) how can norwich expect to compete to bring in players ie sharp and eastwood against teams with a realistic chance of promotion.

 Is a takeover and with it the publicity of this club ''growing'' the only way we can attract top quality players (granted we would get a larger budget with a takeover)

Without it grant is going to have a tough time

[BBFF 0]

NCPLC is what''s wrong with NCFC.

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[ZLF 271]

We are not good enough on the pitch - thats what is wrong,    the manager cannot do what others in this league can and get his chosen squad of decent young footballers to perform as a team or committed individuals to the level that they are clearly capable of due to poor man management and inappropriately deployed tactics.

It is not down to us being a PLC - the squad is good enough,  just poorly guided.

Our problems are not financial or board led,  it is the footballing side that lets the club down

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Salopian"]We have a better squad, although with few stars and virtually none if Hux cannot recover his best. That we have no stars is because the new players have been obtained on a shoe string. I think that Grant/Duffy/Gunn have performed wonders in getting rid of deadwood and bringing in competent replacements.

Perhaps more would have been spent and more outstanding signings made if players had been prepared to come to Norwich and we had been prepared to outbid other clubs in transfer fees and wages (e.g. Varney).

If what we have is an intermediate stage in re-building, (-with our budget limitations and just the one summer to replace players who were contributing nothing), then we can look forward to more clear-outs in 2008 (Doherty, Halliday, Jarvis[es], Eagle, etc.), and hopefully few but more outstanding players brought in.

Only clubs with buckets of money can hope to build immediate success. In our promotion season it was the Hux factor which surprisngly(?) made us champions and arguably before we had the squad to stay up. Given our resources, our approach has to be more patient. I think that we have made progress with the squad in the last six months, and I hope that this will become apparent when injuries an supensions are over.
[/quote]

What utter plop. More spin from an abject apologist who just can''t see the reality...or more likely won''t see the reality.

Rebuild my @rse. It''s just the continuation of the demolition job started by Smith and Co. when they magically "saved" the club from future success. At that time small thinking became the norm and ambition was left for others to risk. I''d say what is going on at Leeds right now is ambition....and they will be back in the Prem a bloody sight sooner than us.

Little minds defending other little minds thinking small.......Baaaaaaaaaah.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Cluck "]

[quote user="Salopian"]We have a better squad, although with few stars and virtually none if Hux cannot recover his best. That we have no stars is because the new players have been obtained on a shoe string. I think that Grant/Duffy/Gunn have performed wonders in getting rid of deadwood and bringing in competent replacements.

Perhaps more would have been spent and more outstanding signings made if players had been prepared to come to Norwich and we had been prepared to outbid other clubs in transfer fees and wages (e.g. Varney).

If what we have is an intermediate stage in re-building, (-with our budget limitations and just the one summer to replace players who were contributing nothing), then we can look forward to more clear-outs in 2008 (Doherty, Halliday, Jarvis[es], Eagle, etc.), and hopefully few but more outstanding players brought in.

Only clubs with buckets of money can hope to build immediate success. In our promotion season it was the Hux factor which surprisngly(?) made us champions and arguably before we had the squad to stay up. Given our resources, our approach has to be more patient. I think that we have made progress with the squad in the last six months, and I hope that this will become apparent when injuries an supensions are over.
[/quote]

........ It''s just the continuation of the demolition job started by Smith and Co. when they magically "saved" the club from future success.[/quote]

Can you honestly say Cluck, hand on heart, that you weren''t just a teensy weensy bit pleased when Delia first rode into the Carrow Road boardroom ?

I think it''s fair to say that a fair few of us were more than a little uneasy when Delia and her husband gained their stranglehold on the club, I know I was. But, having emerged - just -from the ruins left by The Great Dictator, Robert Chase, did you not think, even for a while, that the new owners might just be an improvement ? It may well have all gone wrong since but it''s only human nature, isn''t it ?

An honest answer please..... 

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="Cluck "]

[quote user="Salopian"]We have a better squad, although with few stars and virtually none if Hux cannot recover his best. That we have no stars is because the new players have been obtained on a shoe string. I think that Grant/Duffy/Gunn have performed wonders in getting rid of deadwood and bringing in competent replacements.

Perhaps more would have been spent and more outstanding signings made if players had been prepared to come to Norwich and we had been prepared to outbid other clubs in transfer fees and wages (e.g. Varney).

If what we have is an intermediate stage in re-building, (-with our budget limitations and just the one summer to replace players who were contributing nothing), then we can look forward to more clear-outs in 2008 (Doherty, Halliday, Jarvis[es], Eagle, etc.), and hopefully few but more outstanding players brought in.

Only clubs with buckets of money can hope to build immediate success. In our promotion season it was the Hux factor which surprisngly(?) made us champions and arguably before we had the squad to stay up. Given our resources, our approach has to be more patient. I think that we have made progress with the squad in the last six months, and I hope that this will become apparent when injuries an supensions are over.
[/quote]

........ It''s just the continuation of the demolition job started by Smith and Co. when they magically "saved" the club from future success.[/quote]

Can you honestly say Cluck, hand on heart, that you weren''t just a teensy weensy bit pleased when Delia first rode into the Carrow Road boardroom ?

I think it''s fair to say that a fair few of us were more than a little uneasy when Delia and her husband gained their stranglehold on the club, I know I was. But, having emerged - just -from the ruins left by The Great Dictator, Robert Chase, did you not think, even for a while, that the new owners might just be an improvement ? It may well have all gone wrong since but it''s only human nature, isn''t it ?

An honest answer please..... 

 

[/quote]

I can honestly say "hand on heart" no....but I was willing to go along with things at the time for the sake of the club. For the astute among us it didn''t take long to see through the "saviour" circus which arrived with her....and for the business people among us to know that the club was infact a million miles away from serious financial collapse. It''s just that DS and Co. got through the door first...not that nobody else was interested.

With minimal debts of £6 million at the time...covered easily by the land bank, inheritance and players on the park, I''m just stunned that the myth lives on. Now £20 million plus in debt with sod all left to flog.....my early suspicions have been proven well founded.

I didn''t want her here then....and I don''t want her here now.

 

 

 

 

[Buncey 1]

Marc Rivers.... Now there''s a name!

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="Cluck "]

[quote user="Salopian"]We have a better squad, although with few stars and virtually none if Hux cannot recover his best. That we have no stars is because the new players have been obtained on a shoe string. I think that Grant/Duffy/Gunn have performed wonders in getting rid of deadwood and bringing in competent replacements.

Perhaps more would have been spent and more outstanding signings made if players had been prepared to come to Norwich and we had been prepared to outbid other clubs in transfer fees and wages (e.g. Varney).

If what we have is an intermediate stage in re-building, (-with our budget limitations and just the one summer to replace players who were contributing nothing), then we can look forward to more clear-outs in 2008 (Doherty, Halliday, Jarvis[es], Eagle, etc.), and hopefully few but more outstanding players brought in.

Only clubs with buckets of money can hope to build immediate success. In our promotion season it was the Hux factor which surprisngly(?) made us champions and arguably before we had the squad to stay up. Given our resources, our approach has to be more patient. I think that we have made progress with the squad in the last six months, and I hope that this will become apparent when injuries an supensions are over.
[/quote]

........ It''s just the continuation of the demolition job started by Smith and Co. when they magically "saved" the club from future success.[/quote]

Can you honestly say Cluck, hand on heart, that you weren''t just a teensy weensy bit pleased when Delia first rode into the Carrow Road boardroom ?

I think it''s fair to say that a fair few of us were more than a little uneasy when Delia and her husband gained their stranglehold on the club, I know I was. But, having emerged - just -from the ruins left by The Great Dictator, Robert Chase, did you not think, even for a while, that the new owners might just be an improvement ? It may well have all gone wrong since but it''s only human nature, isn''t it ?

An honest answer please..... 

[/quote]

I can honestly say "hand on heart" no....but I was willing to go along with things at the time for the sake of the club. For the astute among us it didn''t take long to see through the "saviour" circus which arrived with her....and for the business people among us to know that the club was infact a million miles away from serious financial collapse.

[/quote]

Thanks for your reply........congratulations on your astuteness. 

I would point out that perception is half the problem. NCFC may well have been a million miles away from the abyss but in the light of the Northern Rock fiasco - a huge company compared to any football club - it doesn''t take much to make people more than a little twitchy.......

[Yellow Rider 0]

I, like Cluck, have never been a fan of Delia Smith although I do respect her as an honest fan and she has undoubtedly contributed significant amount of funds to the club (albeit by way of loans - usually interest free by the way). It would be churlish of us not to acknowledge what she has done for the club.   

The reasons I don''t like her are:

• Over meddling in football affairs (when she publicly said when she arrived that ...''I know nothing of football'') e.g. the appointment ofa a team of sports fitness gurus (that didn''t last long although Carolan was taken on full time I believe),  Rioch was forced out by being deprived of funds, Hamilton was fiercely defended as was Worthy and we''ve had those cringing ...''little Norwich'' comments.  
• Self promotion - she said early on that ..''I hate publicity and do all I can to avoid it'' - Yeah right!! When that all yellow strip was decided who did we see parading it down the catwalk blinking and grinning as the flashlights went off??

But it''s this old chestnut of ''saving the club from extinction'' that has always intrigued me. If someone can produce EVIDENCE then I will hold up my hands and acknowledge until then though......

Cast your minds back to the summer of 1996. Watling bought out Chase who rode off into the sunset. A few weeks later the remaining directors sacked Megson and reinstated Walker. It was not until November that year (from memory) that the Board was expanded and refreshed with Skipper, Smith and Wynn-Jones coming on board. Now, never was it made public on radio, TV, paper during that time that we were ''x'' days or hours from liquidation yet this story has built up over the years that Smith put the first of her money just in time. Now surely the directors who were still here that summer and the club trustees  failed in their duty by not going public and appealing for funds to keep the club afloat. That''s what happens. It did at Bradford for example. What would have happened had Smith suddenly said ''No'' at the 11th hour? Was there seriously no Plan B and do we seriously believe that the very first we (the fans) we would have known was by way of banner headlines in the EEN along the lines of ''NCFC liquidated'' because that is what most people have subsequently been led to believe.

Even Robert Green when interviewed in the dark days of the declining Worthy regime said that ''she saved the club from ruin. Now back in 1996 dear old Greeno would have been about 15 or 16! What the hell did he know then about the intricacies of City''s finances?

So, in summary is it a ''myth'' as those like Cluck would argue or is it actual fact that she saved NCFC from being wound up?  

   

     

 

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

[:''(]After listening/watching Hucks its clear that hes very angry about the whole crazy situation.

[The Sweeney 0]

Are you seriously suggesting that last seasons alleged deadwood has been replaced by better players? Some have clearly come from the same timber yard at some of those from last season. As for PG - a serious case of woodworm far beyond the help of Rentokil. The club is in deep trouble with little idea of how to get out of the mess. Its not all about money-its management and motivation. Love them or loathe them look what Wimbledon achieved on small crowds and a small budget. Great team spirit,motivated,played for each other,full of passion, many players drawn from lower divisions all with something to prove. Many went on to play in top league teams. It can be done -it just needs the balls and determination to do. Light years away from Carrow Road at the moment where the only spirit is in Delia''s restaurant.