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norfolkbroadslim

As bad if not worse than the Chase fiasco!!!!!!!!!

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Firstly I am certainly not saying I told you so as this is not the time for that. 

I have been saying for a while, that to me it appeared we had no money.  And today it has been revealed, that we are basically stuffed, no money for anything to do with football (apart from money for loans, yippee!!).

To make it even more disgraceful, a struggling side with no major assets may have to sell some players.  Not only have the Board put us in this mess they may rub salt into the wounds by forcing player sales because of off field activities and that is what has caused this.  When we got promoted we were told don''t worry if we get relegated, player wages have been structured for that, well if they were this makes it all the more shocking as yet more money has been wasted.

Planning permission for this, planning permission for that, hotel, bricks and mortar, ooopps we''ve forgotten the football duh!

Actually you couldn''t have written anything quite like this, even an Ipswich fan with an unbelievably vindictive imagine couldn''t have plotted our downfall quite like this.... hotel, planning permission for god knows what, huge debt, no money to pay this debt, apart, perhaps, from selling some players from our now mediocre squad, struggling at the bottom of the league, certainly no money to strengthen the squad, as a result possible League One football, lower crowds, more player sales to finance increasing debt, as a result League Two etc......

The board will never admit that the football has suffered as a result of off field activities.  Yet despite this huge debt and the situation we find our club in, I don''t see the club openly welcoming investment, why not?  At this stage, apart from a few exceptions I don''t care where any investment comes from.  Yet the board, Delia will only have investment on their very limited terms, which will put off the majority of potential investors.

This, imho is worse than Chase, and will continue as long as the Carrow Road PR machine is allowed to churn out its spin or the club goes into administration whichever is sooner.  What good are answers from the current board, when all they will give us is tripe, spin, ****?

We don''t deserve this after what happened with Chase, I for one thought the board understood  how the fans felt about that.  The board should be hung out to dry for feeding us this prudence bull sh**.  This is not prudence it is god damn wrecklessness.

This is what for me makes it worse than Chase.  The Board knew what we had gone through with Chase, they gave us prudence and as a result we accepted the trade off of prudence against performances on the pitch and took on board the relegation thinking that the club was being prudent, when all along they weren''t.  We are now near the bottom of the league, with no money, a mediocre squad, huge debts, and possibly looking at football in third tier of the English League.  But don''t worry the club are being prudent. 

I am going to make a new mug, not a '' Chase Out'' mug, plain and simple, ''board out''.  [:''(]

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You''ve summed up my feelings exactly Slim.  At least we knew where we stood with Chase - he hated us, we hated him, "Chase Out, Chase Out" and eventually after 18 months of utter grief and near bankruptcy he was out.  Cue party at Selhurst Park and limited edition "Battle of Carrow Road" badges, one of which I still wear with pride.

As posted elsewhere it''s the denial of responsibility, the spin and bull**** that gets me more than anything.  They traded on the Chase episode to get us to trust them, and we did.  They owe it to us to admit they''ve cocked it up.  (Maybe they still have to admit it to themselves, which is a really worrying thought.)  Then we can vent our surplus anger where it really belongs instead of against each other, and begin to accept where we are and move on.

 

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This lot (NCPLC) are as bad a Chase but then the FOOTBALL was a lot better. Chase sold good players to stay afloat. now this lot want to sell our good players to stay afloat too but we have none left, they have all jumped ship.

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

You''ve summed up my feelings exactly Slim.  At least we knew where we stood with Chase - he hated us, we hated him, "Chase Out, Chase Out" and eventually after 18 months of utter grief and near bankruptcy he was out.  Cue party at Selhurst Park and limited edition "Battle of Carrow Road" badges, one of which I still wear with pride.

As posted elsewhere it''s the denial of responsibility, the spin and bull**** that gets me more than anything.  They traded on the Chase episode to get us to trust them, and we did.  They owe it to us to admit they''ve cocked it up.  (Maybe they still have to admit it to themselves, which is a really worrying thought.)  Then we can vent our surplus anger where it really belongs instead of against each other, and begin to accept where we are and move on.

 

[/quote] Ah yes the badges, I remember, mine should be about somewhere! And all the mugs, including the champagne flute to signal Chases'' departure....don''t forget.

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Chase thought he was the bees knees to be honest. He built this shiny world around him and employed an office full of yes men to constantly tell him he was No One.

He hated the fans with a passion. I don''t think the present board do, but they seem to have fallen under the buildings and off field activites also. Not so much time and money to be spent on the "football department".

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I''m afraid the City fans were duped by a cynical season ticket blackmail scam....and the bandits upstairs have milked the money cow dry.

Only by walking away and leaving that seat empty will a message finally get through...for as long as gates remain at the present level they are laughing up their sleeves at the turnips they''ve carefully propagated.

I don''t feel good about not being there on matchdays....but sometimes a principle is rather more important than a desire.

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[quote user="Cluck "]

I''m afraid the City fans were duped by a cynical season ticket blackmail scam....and the bandits upstairs have milked the money cow dry.

Only by walking away and leaving that seat empty will a message finally get through...for as long as gates remain at the present level they are laughing up their sleeves at the turnips they''ve carefully propagated.

I don''t feel good about not being there on matchdays....but sometimes a principle is rather more important than a desire.

[/quote]

Is it cynicism Cluck or are they in denial?  Have they admitted to themselves that they''ve cocked it up?

Denial happens.  For example, it is possible for someone to go on the pitch at half time, bellow "Let''s be ''avin you!" into a microphone and then deny with absolute sincerity that alcohol had a part to play, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If this same mentality pervades the boardroom, we might as well pack up and go home and wait for the end game. When someone is in denial it''s a dialogue with the deaf.  The more you state the blindingly obvious, the worse it gets because it reinforces their denial.

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

 

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The club STILL keep writing to me to see if I want a season ticket, my, how times change!. Two years ago they were capped as was membership.

Next season I hear, they may give them both away free in Cornflake packets.[:D]

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[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="Cluck "]

I''m afraid the City fans were duped by a cynical season ticket blackmail scam....and the bandits upstairs have milked the money cow dry.

Only by walking away and leaving that seat empty will a message finally get through...for as long as gates remain at the present level they are laughing up their sleeves at the turnips they''ve carefully propagated.

I don''t feel good about not being there on matchdays....but sometimes a principle is rather more important than a desire.

[/quote]

Is it cynicism Cluck or are they in denial?  Have they admitted to themselves that they''ve cocked it up?

Denial happens.  For example, it is possible for someone to go on the pitch at half time, bellow "Let''s be ''avin you!" into a microphone and then deny with absolute sincerity that alcohol had a part to play, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If this same mentality pervades the boardroom, we might as well pack up and go home and wait for the end game. When someone is in denial it''s a dialogue with the deaf.  The more you state the blindingly obvious, the worse it gets because it reinforces their denial.

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

 

[/quote]

I really don''t know any more Mystic but I figure you''re pretty much spot on. I''ve read many of your posts over time and honestly feel that if anybody has sussed it out...you have. Like you though, my nature is to stand my ground and fight till I drop....but then you have to have an enemy prepared to battle rather than stay locked away in their ivory tower.

Staying away came hard....but experience has told me that the denial of money is the most likely way to make a point hit home. Good luck at the AGM....and you certainly carry my sentiments with you!

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This is such nonsense.We are in this position because of Chase. His mismanagement happened at precisely the wrong time for us. Money in the Premier League was just starting to flood in and we missed out because of the man. The new board needed time - in years, not months - not only to stabilise the club financially but also make sure we at least stayed no lower than a division below the Premier.We have never recovered since Chase, and that is not down to this board''s lack of trying. He left us with NOTHING. The club had to be restructred in every area, which took years and is still not complete. All of you who think getting to the Premier was our golden ticket seem to forget that the £25m we received had to pay for the previous 10 years of making no profit. Going back up just highlighted what a vastly different world it is now compared to when we were able to compete in the top 6.Unless this board was able to inject £40m-£50m, wiping out the £20m we owe now and leaving £30m to invest in players over the next few years, we were always going to struggle. But even having £30m to invest in players over a few years is not much by Premier standards.This board do not have that money to invest - whatever you say, you do not know their personal financial situations so don''t pretend they are swimming in it and are just being selfish. And all of you who think Delia is using the club to make money are deluded - she makes nowt out of it, and she does not have a ''fortune'' even remotely close to some even like Mandaric or Jordan.Of course the board have messed up, particularly in not forcing Worthy to pay attention to the structure of the team and the club as a whole, but saying this is worse than Chase is an insult to all of us who watched some seriously good players (the likes of which we have not had since) leave us for a song. Whatever you think of this board, they have kept us afloat at a time when many would have gone under, and for that we should be grateful. There are many permutations as to how we can get out of this, and I don''t suggest this board necessarily have the answer, but we owe them gratitude for at least allowing us to still see ourselves as a club that should be challenging for promotion.So stop this ''as bad as Chase'' nonsense, it is utterly, utterly different and an insult to those of us who fought tooth and nail to get rid of him. If you were really involved in his downfall, you would not campare the two for a moment.OTBC

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[quote user="broadie"]


So stop this ''as bad as Chase'' nonsense, it is utterly, utterly different and an insult to those of us who fought tooth and nail to get rid of him.

If you were really involved in his downfall, you would not campare the two for a moment.


[/quote]

I was, and it is.

 

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Broadie, i think you need to either get hold of the last few years accounts or read through some of the threads on here which quote from them. Your rosy view of the actions of the current regime just doesn`t stand up to scrutiny-in fact their actions and end result have been remarkably similar to Chase. Massive amounts have been borrowed and spent on two areas of land (Laurence Scott and Kerrison Rd.) which remain unsold, and non-essentials such as the infill, new pitch, new ticket office, offices to rent out etc.,etc.-all whilst the team deteriorates before our eyes. I can assure you that i can back this up with quotes and figures from the accounts but i`m too p**sed off to bother. I think that at last the true picture is starting to hit home through the spin anyway.

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It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

I hope this is not just bluster from you mystic meg! I will be joining you but I can assure you that there will be very few (if any) others. Queen Smith still commands incredibly vast and loyal support, albeit not at quite the Nuremburg Rally level and fervour of a few years back. Have you been to any AGM''s? Smith is VERY prickly to any form of criticism and anything she says in response to a question from the floor usually gets a tub thumping round of applause. Believe me that makes it very intimidating for those in the audience with contrary views to hers. 

I tried to whip up the audience at the Diss fans forum in November 2005 (when it had become clear that serious decline had set in with Worthy) but failed. Too many fans either just muttered support for me under their breath but were terrified to actually stick up their hands in support or were downright blind to the problems. Later that season at Hull I took along a bag of white hankies intending to hand them out amongst fans and try and start a demo. The first car I approached had 4 lads in who looked ideal candidates but each refused point blank to get involved. I soon gave up.  

You will find that the old ''myth'' (or ''fact'', depending on who you believe)  of .....''the club were within hours of being wound up before we took over'' will be pedelled out again. That tactic always kills any rebellion stone dead I''m afraid.   

Back in 2000 I think it was (may be 2001) a group of shareholders (I wasn''t one at that time) raised a proposed vote of no confidence in Grocer Bob as Chairman. Smith went ballistic and hijacked the whole thing by saying ....''if this is put to the vote we will treat it as a vote of no confidence in the entire board''  (which it wasn''t). Result? The rebels quickly backed off and went home with tails very firmly between legs!

Believe me all this anti Smith / Board bluster on this website is NOT reflective of general feeling amongst 20,000 City fans (IMO) or, if it is, the fans have no backbone to stand up and be counted. They are just  happy to moan behind the anonymity of their nicknames. That is precisely why I joined the SCG in 2005 so that I could put my point direct to the likes of ND and RM. Why don''t you do the same ? There are vacancies.     

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

I hope this is not just bluster from you mystic meg! I will be joining you but I can assure you that there will be very few (if any) others. Queen Smith still commands incredibly vast and loyal support, albeit not at quite the Nuremburg Rally level and fervour of a few years back. Have you been to any AGM''s? Smith is VERY prickly to any form of criticism and anything she says in response to a question from the floor usually gets a tub thumping round of applause. Believe me that makes it very intimidating for those in the audience with contrary views to hers. 

I tried to whip up the audience at the Diss fans forum in November 2005 (when it had become clear that serious decline had set in with Worthy) but failed. Too many fans either just muttered support for me under their breath but were terrified to actually stick up their hands in support or were downright blind to the problems. Later that season at Hull I took along a bag of white hankies intending to hand them out amongst fans and try and start a demo. The first car I approached had 4 lads in who looked ideal candidates but each refused point blank to get involved. I soon gave up.  

You will find that the old ''myth'' (or ''fact'', depending on who you believe)  of .....''the club were within hours of being wound up before we took over'' will be pedelled out again. That tactic always kills any rebellion stone dead I''m afraid.   

Back in 2000 I think it was (may be 2001) a group of shareholders (I wasn''t one at that time) raised a proposed vote of no confidence in Grocer Bob as Chairman. Smith went ballistic and hijacked the whole thing by saying ....''if this is put to the vote we will treat it as a vote of no confidence in the entire board''  (which it wasn''t). Result? The rebels quickly backed off and went home with tails very firmly between legs!

Believe me all this anti Smith / Board bluster on this website is NOT reflective of general feeling amongst 20,000 City fans (IMO) or, if it is, the fans have no backbone to stand up and be counted. They are just  happy to moan behind the anonymity of their nicknames. That is precisely why I joined the SCG in 2005 so that I could put my point direct to the likes of ND and RM. Why don''t you do the same ? There are vacancies.     

[/quote]

I will be there Yellow Rider.  I''ve never been to an AGM but I''ve been in close enough proximity to "She Who Must Be Obeyed" to feel the vibes.  I''ve also heard that on occasions members of the audience have turned on dissenters.  It may be uncomfortable but sometimes you have to practice what you preach. Even if I''m the only one I don''t give a flying whatsit.  With the support I''m getting on here it will feel like 500. 

I''m not intending to say anything, simply put my hand up and be counted.  Actions sometimes speak louder than words.  I will also vote against adoption of the Annual Report on the grounds that "The group''s principal activity is that of a professional football club" (p.13) is no longer a strictly accurate statement . . .

 

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[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="Yellow Rider"]

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

I hope this is not just bluster from you mystic meg! I will be joining you but I can assure you that there will be very few (if any) others. Queen Smith still commands incredibly vast and loyal support, albeit not at quite the Nuremburg Rally level and fervour of a few years back. Have you been to any AGM''s? Smith is VERY prickly to any form of criticism and anything she says in response to a question from the floor usually gets a tub thumping round of applause. Believe me that makes it very intimidating for those in the audience with contrary views to hers. 

I tried to whip up the audience at the Diss fans forum in November 2005 (when it had become clear that serious decline had set in with Worthy) but failed. Too many fans either just muttered support for me under their breath but were terrified to actually stick up their hands in support or were downright blind to the problems. Later that season at Hull I took along a bag of white hankies intending to hand them out amongst fans and try and start a demo. The first car I approached had 4 lads in who looked ideal candidates but each refused point blank to get involved. I soon gave up.  

You will find that the old ''myth'' (or ''fact'', depending on who you believe)  of .....''the club were within hours of being wound up before we took over'' will be pedelled out again. That tactic always kills any rebellion stone dead I''m afraid.   

Back in 2000 I think it was (may be 2001) a group of shareholders (I wasn''t one at that time) raised a proposed vote of no confidence in Grocer Bob as Chairman. Smith went ballistic and hijacked the whole thing by saying ....''if this is put to the vote we will treat it as a vote of no confidence in the entire board''  (which it wasn''t). Result? The rebels quickly backed off and went home with tails very firmly between legs!

Believe me all this anti Smith / Board bluster on this website is NOT reflective of general feeling amongst 20,000 City fans (IMO) or, if it is, the fans have no backbone to stand up and be counted. They are just  happy to moan behind the anonymity of their nicknames. That is precisely why I joined the SCG in 2005 so that I could put my point direct to the likes of ND and RM. Why don''t you do the same ? There are vacancies.     

[/quote]

I will be there Yellow Rider.  I''ve never been to an AGM but I''ve been in close enough proximity to "She Who Must Be Obeyed" to feel the vibes.  I''ve also heard that on occasions members of the audience have turned on dissenters.  It may be uncomfortable but sometimes you have to practice what you preach. Even if I''m the only one I don''t give a flying whatsit.  With the support I''m getting on here it will feel like 500. 

I''m not intending to say anything, simply put my hand up and be counted.  Actions sometimes speak louder than words.  I will also vote against adoption of the Annual Report on the grounds that "The group''s principal activity is that of a professional football club" (p.13) is no longer a strictly accurate statement . . .

 

[/quote]

I think I''m falling in love.........[:$]

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

I hope this is not just bluster from you mystic meg! I will be joining you but I can assure you that there will be very few (if any) others. Queen Smith still commands incredibly vast and loyal support, albeit not at quite the Nuremburg Rally level and fervour of a few years back. Have you been to any AGM''s? Smith is VERY prickly to any form of criticism and anything she says in response to a question from the floor usually gets a tub thumping round of applause. Believe me that makes it very intimidating for those in the audience with contrary views to hers. 

I tried to whip up the audience at the Diss fans forum in November 2005 (when it had become clear that serious decline had set in with Worthy) but failed. Too many fans either just muttered support for me under their breath but were terrified to actually stick up their hands in support or were downright blind to the problems. Later that season at Hull I took along a bag of white hankies intending to hand them out amongst fans and try and start a demo. The first car I approached had 4 lads in who looked ideal candidates but each refused point blank to get involved. I soon gave up.  

You will find that the old ''myth'' (or ''fact'', depending on who you believe)  of .....''the club were within hours of being wound up before we took over'' will be pedelled out again. That tactic always kills any rebellion stone dead I''m afraid.   

Back in 2000 I think it was (may be 2001) a group of shareholders (I wasn''t one at that time) raised a proposed vote of no confidence in Grocer Bob as Chairman. Smith went ballistic and hijacked the whole thing by saying ....''if this is put to the vote we will treat it as a vote of no confidence in the entire board''  (which it wasn''t). Result? The rebels quickly backed off and went home with tails very firmly between legs!

Believe me all this anti Smith / Board bluster on this website is NOT reflective of general feeling amongst 20,000 City fans (IMO) or, if it is, the fans have no backbone to stand up and be counted. They are just  happy to moan behind the anonymity of their nicknames. That is precisely why I joined the SCG in 2005 so that I could put my point direct to the likes of ND and RM. Why don''t you do the same ? There are vacancies.     

[/quote]

YR we agree on many things regarding the way NCPLC board runs or missruns the club but over the years iv watched the SCG operate and I''m sorry to say it looks no more than a talking shop where the powers that be gives it little more than lip service. Just one question, has NCPLC ever changed there mind on a decision they had made after the supports on the SCG apposed it?

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

It''s not in my nature to stand idly by, so I will go to the AGM on 18th October and exercise my right as a shareholder to vote against the reelection of Delia and Michael to the board.  After that, for my own sanity, I''m going to walk away.

I hope this is not just bluster from you mystic meg! I will be joining you but I can assure you that there will be very few (if any) others. Queen Smith still commands incredibly vast and loyal support, albeit not at quite the Nuremburg Rally level and fervour of a few years back. Have you been to any AGM''s? Smith is VERY prickly to any form of criticism and anything she says in response to a question from the floor usually gets a tub thumping round of applause. Believe me that makes it very intimidating for those in the audience with contrary views to hers. 

I tried to whip up the audience at the Diss fans forum in November 2005 (when it had become clear that serious decline had set in with Worthy) but failed. Too many fans either just muttered support for me under their breath but were terrified to actually stick up their hands in support or were downright blind to the problems. Later that season at Hull I took along a bag of white hankies intending to hand them out amongst fans and try and start a demo. The first car I approached had 4 lads in who looked ideal candidates but each refused point blank to get involved. I soon gave up.  

You will find that the old ''myth'' (or ''fact'', depending on who you believe)  of .....''the club were within hours of being wound up before we took over'' will be pedelled out again. That tactic always kills any rebellion stone dead I''m afraid.   

Back in 2000 I think it was (may be 2001) a group of shareholders (I wasn''t one at that time) raised a proposed vote of no confidence in Grocer Bob as Chairman. Smith went ballistic and hijacked the whole thing by saying ....''if this is put to the vote we will treat it as a vote of no confidence in the entire board''  (which it wasn''t). Result? The rebels quickly backed off and went home with tails very firmly between legs!

Believe me all this anti Smith / Board bluster on this website is NOT reflective of general feeling amongst 20,000 City fans (IMO) or, if it is, the fans have no backbone to stand up and be counted. They are just  happy to moan behind the anonymity of their nicknames. That is precisely why I joined the SCG in 2005 so that I could put my point direct to the likes of ND and RM. Why don''t you do the same ? There are vacancies.     

[/quote] I have to say what Yellow Rider says about the AGM is 100% accurate. When there was considerable anti Worthington feeling the board anticipated this by "planting" a spokesperson to do a long and obviously well rehearsed speech about how great NW was and how wicked any dissenters were. There WERE one or two people who questioned certain things on the playing side at that meeting - but they were largely shouted down by a lot of the shareholders and ridiculed by Messrs Munby, Doncaster and Wyn Jones. On the other hand there were a number of people giving support. You have to view it all in the context of the moment, a lot of shareholders of this club are somewhat conservative in their viewpoint perhaps. I will be at the shareholders meeting also, so will wait to see what occurs. I stood up to Munby once at a fans'' forum on the issue of buying Huckerby and was publically ridiculed for it. Not a nice experience - was accused of trying to ruin the club by buying what we couldn''t afford etc etc when questioning the club''s ambition. On meeting Munby since that day he''s been polite and smarmy..but clearly hasn''t forgotten...so good luck Mystic, hope you have a thick skin, I haven''t - but then we should all stand up for what we believe in, whatever that opinion may be. I am afraid the board have these AGMs sown up now. Fans come first? Only when they are handing over the cash, and not questioning anything too closely.

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Damn good question about the SCG.

Is it a ''talking shop''? Well, depends on how you''re using the phrase but in essence ''Yes'' although there is much more to their role than that. The SCG works with representatives of the club on various working parties to contribute to such things as the pricing policy for next season, disabled supporter access and facilities, away travel etc. Many fans on the SCG devote a lot of time to work behind the scenes (certainly spending more time than I currently do for example). 

At each and every meeting there will be Neil Doncaster + Roger Munby there and there is absolutely no restriction on any issue that we may want to raise.  Now RM is a master of political spin IMO but a damn nice bloke and he genuinely takes steps to fully listen to ALL shades of opinion, I can assure you of that. In answer to your actual question, I honestly don''t know. The problem there is that as the club has no supporter elected representative on it''s board we have no way of knowing what ND and RM then actually feedback to their fellow directors. Who knows what happens at board meetings? No-one at all (if truth be known) apart from those attending. .All I can say is that when things got really bad under Worthy, RM was left in no doubt as to how the fans on the SCG felt about things! Now personally I think they continued to still bury their heads in the sand (hence not sacking Worthy last May).   

In summary I feel that you stand far more chance of being listened to if you speak direct to the club from that forum than by posting on message boards. Of course not everyone can get on the SCG but I''m a sceptical type and I have found the experience beneficial. I very much doubt there are many other clubs who are prepared to put their CE and Chairman under this sort of fan scrutiny (and you have to give them credit for that).     

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There is no ''rosy view'' of this board, what I''m saying is that while Chase was busy ignoring the playing side and selling off our assets, he was destroying what best chance we had - on the field. He had no need to do that because any fool could have seen that staying in the top league would have brought us untold riches.Fast forward to now, where the gap between the two leagues is so huge that this board - or any board with the same money - have no alternative to but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming from the football itself. If we went up and stayed up we could turn it around but until then isn''t it obvious that we have to do what we can to get money in? Although I say this, I truly believe that a little more ambition and less prudence at the right moments would have seen us right, and I''m not sure this board have learned from their past mistakes, but my point was that the two eras are as different as they can be. Football has moved on beyond recognition since that point and we are struggling to keep up.By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.

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[quote user="Yellow Rider"]

Damn good question about the SCG.

Is it a ''talking shop''? Well, depends on how you''re using the phrase but in essence ''Yes'' although there is much more to their role than that. The SCG works with representatives of the club on various working parties to contribute to such things as the pricing policy for next season, disabled supporter access and facilities, away travel etc. Many fans on the SCG devote a lot of time to work behind the scenes (certainly spending more time than I currently do for example). 

At each and every meeting there will be Neil Doncaster + Roger Munby there and there is absolutely no restriction on any issue that we may want to raise.  Now RM is a master of political spin IMO but a damn nice bloke and he genuinely takes steps to fully listen to ALL shades of opinion, I can assure you of that. In answer to your actual question, I honestly don''t know. The problem there is that as the club has no supporter elected representative on it''s board we have no way of knowing what ND and RM then actually feedback to their fellow directors. Who knows what happens at board meetings? No-one at all (if truth be known) apart from those attending. .All I can say is that when things got really bad under Worthy, RM was left in no doubt as to how the fans on the SCG felt about things! Now personally I think they continued to still bury their heads in the sand (hence not sacking Worthy last May).   

In summary I feel that you stand far more chance of being listened to if you speak direct to the club from that forum than by posting on message boards. Of course not everyone can get on the SCG but I''m a sceptical type and I have found the experience beneficial. I very much doubt there are many other clubs who are prepared to put their CE and Chairman under this sort of fan scrutiny (and you have to give them credit for that).     

[/quote]

My point is what ever you say to them at the SCG makes no difference what so ever. NCPLC do what ever they want and things like the SCG and meeting the fans like they do, gives them the credibility to say they are a listening club but in fact they pay no attention to what you or any other fan say. Just another one of their lies.

I would respect them more if they told the truth, as in "we run the club how we want and don''t care if you don''t like it" or "we are happy as a mid table club in this league" but the lies do them no favours.   

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

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[quote user="broadie"]

By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.
[/quote]

As a shareholder I am in a position to make a statement about the way the club is being run by exercising the right to vote.  There are a good many fans who would like to do the same but are not eligible, so I''m doing it for them as well and I won''t let them down.  

Voting against the majority shareholders has far more symbolic value than voting against the CEO who at the end of the day is just another employee.  It also helps to expose the myth of consensus.  And judging from descriptions of the intimidation that can and does occur at meetings where members of the board are present, that in itself is a symptom that our club is far from healthy and also a reason in itself to challenge it.

 

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Broadie I do agree with some of your sentiments, but I just don''t accept that Chase is to blame for all of this. IMHO a prudent thing would have been to concentrate on the footballing side and paying off the chase debt.  Buildings, planning permissions, hotels etc etc could have come later.  I just can''t accept adding to any debt at the detriment of the football.  Our football is getting less successful and we are finding ourselves in greater financial difficulty, and to make matters worse we may have to sell players.

Would you still be blaming Chase in 100 years time if we are still in debt then?

Why weren''t the board prudent when we got promoted?  Putting aside a few million say £4 or £5m for players and using the rest of the money from promotion including parachute payments to pay off the majority, if not all of the debt, this would have been prudent. 

We could have been in the position now of planning for the future with little or no debt.   We might not have had a hotel or this, that or the other but would NCFC in a footballing sense have been any worse off?

Well, its the Euromillions Lottery on Friday and the Jackpot is £88m if I win I will be on the phone with an offer to buy the club.

OTBC

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[quote user="broadie"]There is no ''rosy view'' of this board, what I''m saying is that while Chase was busy ignoring the playing side and selling off our assets, he was destroying what best chance we had - on the field. He had no need to do that because any fool could have seen that staying in the top league would have brought us untold riches.

Fast forward to now, where the gap between the two leagues is so huge that this board - or any board with the same money - have no alternative to but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming from the football itself. If we went up and stayed up we could turn it around but until then isn''t it obvious that we have to do what we can to get money in?

Although I say this, I truly believe that a little more ambition and less prudence at the right moments would have seen us right, and I''m not sure this board have learned from their past mistakes, but my point was that the two eras are as different as they can be. Football has moved on beyond recognition since that point and we are struggling to keep up.

By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.
[/quote]

"this board-have no alternative but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming in from the football itself"

Broadie, where do you think the £35million Sky money came from? Or the millions in profit made on Ashton/Francis/Green etc.? Or the booming demand for tickets/merchandise/sponsorship? From a hotel? Eventguard? A new ticket office or offices to rent out? From the two lovely plots of land that combined cost more than Earnshaw? Please stop swallowing the spin and look into things for yourself.

Why do you think that despite a £7million parachute payment and a big profit on player transfers the club barely made a profit? Where is all this extra revenue the off-pitch stuff is supposed to be furnishing the club with? Broadie, the off-pitch stuff is COSTING the club millions which have to come from asset-stripping the team. ie., exactly the same as under Chase.

 

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[quote user="mystic megson"]

[quote user="broadie"]

By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.
[/quote]

As a shareholder I am in a position to make a statement about the way the club is being run by exercising the right to vote.  There are a good many fans who would like to do the same but are not eligible, so I''m doing it for them as well and I won''t let them down.  

Voting against the majority shareholders has far more symbolic value than voting against the CEO who at the end of the day is just another employee.  It also helps to expose the myth of consensus.  And judging from descriptions of the intimidation that can and does occur at meetings where members of the board are present, that in itself is a symptom that our club is far from healthy and also a reason in itself to challenge it.

 

[/quote]

I''m definately in love.....        [:D]

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="broadie"]There is no ''rosy view'' of this board, what I''m saying is that while Chase was busy ignoring the playing side and selling off our assets, he was destroying what best chance we had - on the field. He had no need to do that because any fool could have seen that staying in the top league would have brought us untold riches.

Fast forward to now, where the gap between the two leagues is so huge that this board - or any board with the same money - have no alternative to but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming from the football itself. If we went up and stayed up we could turn it around but until then isn''t it obvious that we have to do what we can to get money in?

Although I say this, I truly believe that a little more ambition and less prudence at the right moments would have seen us right, and I''m not sure this board have learned from their past mistakes, but my point was that the two eras are as different as they can be. Football has moved on beyond recognition since that point and we are struggling to keep up.

By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.
[/quote]

"this board-have no alternative but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming in from the football itself"

Broadie, where do you think the £35million Sky money came from? Or the millions in profit made on Ashton/Francis/Green etc.? Or the booming demand for tickets/merchandise/sponsorship? From a hotel? Eventguard? A new ticket office or offices to rent out? From the two lovely plots of land that combined cost more than Earnshaw? Please stop swallowing the spin and look into things for yourself.

Why do you think that despite a £7million parachute payment and a big profit on player transfers the club barely made a profit? Where is all this extra revenue the off-pitch stuff is supposed to be furnishing the club with? Broadie, the off-pitch stuff is COSTING the club millions which have to come from asset-stripping the team. ie., exactly the same as under Chase.

 

[/quote]

 

There is no spin being swallowed here - have you seen how much the wage bill is? What ''booming demand'' for tickets/merchandise etc? That brings in a pittance compared with the outgoings.

Where is your proof that the off the pitch activities are costing the club millions? Certainly not in the accounts.

And where is the asset stripping? If Earnie, Saf and Etuhu want to go, why shouldn''t we make money from them? Surely better to have a side that contains players of equal quality rather than sticking a £3m player in with a bunch of no-hopers like we tried last year. The board have hopefully learned from that because it was a complete waste of money.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="broadie"]There is no ''rosy view'' of this board, what I''m saying is that while Chase was busy ignoring the playing side and selling off our assets, he was destroying what best chance we had - on the field. He had no need to do that because any fool could have seen that staying in the top league would have brought us untold riches.

Fast forward to now, where the gap between the two leagues is so huge that this board - or any board with the same money - have no alternative to but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming from the football itself. If we went up and stayed up we could turn it around but until then isn''t it obvious that we have to do what we can to get money in?

Although I say this, I truly believe that a little more ambition and less prudence at the right moments would have seen us right, and I''m not sure this board have learned from their past mistakes, but my point was that the two eras are as different as they can be. Football has moved on beyond recognition since that point and we are struggling to keep up.

By the way - and I made this point after the last AGM -  all this huff and puff about voting against people will amount to nothing, yet again. There was a golden opportunity last year to vote against Doncaster''s appointment and not one person did. Not one person. Will anyone have the guts to do it this year? I hope so, but seriously doubt it. And I''d also like to know what (credible) alternatives people have, which would generally manifest itself in the form of a new investor. He, or she, seems as elusive as ever, and until they materialise there seems little point in destabilising an already creaky structure. The best form of protest would be not to turn up to games.
[/quote]

"this board-have no alternative but to get revenue from other sources, simply because there is so little coming in from the football itself"

Broadie, where do you think the £35million Sky money came from? Or the millions in profit made on Ashton/Francis/Green etc.? Or the booming demand for tickets/merchandise/sponsorship? From a hotel? Eventguard? A new ticket office or offices to rent out? From the two lovely plots of land that combined cost more than Earnshaw? Please stop swallowing the spin and look into things for yourself.

Why do you think that despite a £7million parachute payment and a big profit on player transfers the club barely made a profit? Where is all this extra revenue the off-pitch stuff is supposed to be furnishing the club with? Broadie, the off-pitch stuff is COSTING the club millions which have to come from asset-stripping the team. ie., exactly the same as under Chase.

 

[/quote]Some people cant take the truth Mr C but more and more are takeing notice.

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

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