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Tim Stevens

It would be cruel to put them in ?

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I have read Peter Grants comments re Spillane and Jarvis'' performance. He states they played well and deserve to be considered for the weekend game. As for why they haven''t featured yet .. it would have been cruel !

Forgive me but are these players not adult men who are professionals within their industry ?

The canary faithful are not looking to shout down young players who are trying their best, albeit at the outset anyway. Chris Martin, Jason Shackell are proof of this. I Appreciate Ian Henderson did get a hammering, but in fairness to him he was played out of position by Worthless on too many occasions.

Come on Granty, wake up and smell the whisky, this is the only future for our club without major investment.

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[quote user="emma stevens"]

I have read Peter Grants comments re Spillane and Jarvis'' performance. He states they played well and deserve to be considered for the weekend game. As for why they haven''t featured yet .. it would have been cruel !

Forgive me but are these players not adult men who are professionals within their industry ?

The canary faithful are not looking to shout down young players who are trying their best, albeit at the outset anyway. Chris Martin, Jason Shackell are proof of this. I Appreciate Ian Henderson did get a hammering, but in fairness to him he was played out of position by Worthless on too many occasions.

Come on Granty, wake up and smell the whisky, this is the only future for our club without major investment.

[/quote]

Top, top post - couldn''t have put it any better!!

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Emma - Top post, something I have been saying for a while now, the whole concept of the academy system is to enable teams short on financial resources to "grow" their own talent, but it aint going to happen if youngsters are offered professional contracts, elevated to the first team squad but are never played. 

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Surely it would have been more cruel not to have put them in. Every player has to start their career somewhere and I don''t go along with this nonsense that if a youngster has a tough time on their debut, that this will effect them for evermore.

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How many posters have selected a team this season with Rossi Jarvis and Spillane in the same midfield. I''ve not seen many posts where they have been selected other than to replace our new captain. How many posters stated that we shouldn''t have signed Brellier because we already had Spillane and Jarvis at the club. On a normal week most suggestions are that the squad is too small and we should sign more players. Would this not put Spillane and Jarvis further down the pecking order?

Last night Spillane and Jarvis played well, they took their chance well and deserve another, not sure if they will get it though, we shall see.

 

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Kicking a kitten or drowning a puppy in a water butt is cruel.

Playing a professional footballer in a game of, em, professional football is, well, asking them to do the job they are paid for!

PG''s comments about not playing them because it might be "cruel" astonished me! Is he afraid that the nasty opposition might taunt them, or try to take the lovely bally-wally away from them-or that the nasty big kids watching might taunt them and call them names, might they miss their milk and early night?

Spillane has been touted as one of the best products to come through at Norwich for years, yet no-one seems to want to give him a game and when they do, he doesn''t get  one in his natural, best, and favoured position! Spillane came in last night, did well, and Grant is acting like he''s accidentally made this marvellous discovery, he "...might have a chance at the weekend...", you don''t say Peter, be on the bench again and get a few precious minutes will he?

Wiser watchers of Norwich than me had long said that Rossi was the true prospect of the two Jarvis brothers, well, he hasn''t disappointed either, has he?

If he (PG) goes out and spunks money on a couldn''t-care-less loan signing when he has the option of playing Spillane and Murray together on Saturday, then why bother? Shortage of centre backs-I make it we have five available for two places now, what shortage?

Marshall-Otsemober-Murray-Spillane-Drury (if fit)-Croft-Jarvis-Russell-Lappin-Cureton-Martin

Not a side that ought to be frightened of Sheff Wed, surely?

 

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You can ruin a young players career by giving them too much too young, i remember harry redknapp once saying that he thought he had delayed a youngsters career as he put him in too young and he wasnt ready for regular starts. redknapp is an experienced manager and i think that grant is saying the same thing when he says he does not want to be cruel to players

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[quote user="emma stevens"]

I have read Peter Grants comments re Spillane and Jarvis'' performance. He states they played well and deserve to be considered for the weekend game. As for why they haven''t featured yet .. it would have been cruel !

Forgive me but are these players not adult men who are professionals within their industry ?

The canary faithful are not looking to shout down young players who are trying their best, albeit at the outset anyway. Chris Martin, Jason Shackell are proof of this. I Appreciate Ian Henderson did get a hammering, but in fairness to him he was played out of position by Worthless on too many occasions.

Come on Granty, wake up and smell the whisky, this is the only future for our club without major investment.

[/quote]

Its the same crap that worthy used to spew when talking about youngsters.  Continually playing Hooves, Thorne and Bobinson didn''t do him any good

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

How many posters have selected a team this season with Rossi Jarvis and Spillane in the same midfield. I''ve not seen many posts where they have been selected other than to replace our new captain. How many posters stated that we shouldn''t have signed Brellier because we already had Spillane and Jarvis at the club. On a normal week most suggestions are that the squad is too small and we should sign more players. Would this not put Spillane and Jarvis further down the pecking order?

Last night Spillane and Jarvis played well, they took their chance well and deserve another, not sure if they will get it though, we shall see.

 

[/quote]

What is your point, so he risked the youngsters in a meaningless cup match and they played well in an unlucky defeat.  On current form of NCFC managers we won''t be seeing them again for some time to come, or they will play ineffectively on the wing.

Hopefully we will score this weekend.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

How many posters have selected a team this season with Rossi Jarvis and Spillane in the same midfield. I''ve not seen many posts where they have been selected other than to replace our new captain. How many posters stated that we shouldn''t have signed Brellier because we already had Spillane and Jarvis at the club. On a normal week most suggestions are that the squad is too small and we should sign more players. Would this not put Spillane and Jarvis further down the pecking order?

Last night Spillane and Jarvis played well, they took their chance well and deserve another, not sure if they will get it though, we shall see.

 

[/quote]

You must understand peoples frustration though Nutty?  The two young boys played well and Grant is already talking like he is ready to drop them like a hot brick.  Maybe it is cruel to play them in an underperforming team but dropping them to the bench after playing well is even crueller surely?

 

 

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Rubbish if your good enough your old enough, these youngsters have to learn their trade at some point so why not give them a taste of what professional football is all about ASAP. I think if you look at some of the great players in todays game they all started playing in their clubs first team at a young age and IMO doing that will only help you improve as a player, sure you may get a shock or two along the way and have some prity bad games but that''s all part of the learning.

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[quote user="Saint Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

How many posters have selected a team this season with Rossi Jarvis and Spillane in the same midfield. I''ve not seen many posts where they have been selected other than to replace our new captain. How many posters stated that we shouldn''t have signed Brellier because we already had Spillane and Jarvis at the club. On a normal week most suggestions are that the squad is too small and we should sign more players. Would this not put Spillane and Jarvis further down the pecking order?

Last night Spillane and Jarvis played well, they took their chance well and deserve another, not sure if they will get it though, we shall see.

 

[/quote]

You must understand peoples frustration though Nutty?  The two young boys played well and Grant is already talking like he is ready to drop them like a hot brick.  Maybe it is cruel to play them in an underperforming team but dropping them to the bench after playing well is even crueller surely?

 [/quote]

You get no argument from me on that score saint. As my post says I believe they deserve another chance after Tuesday. But a week ago Chris Brown didn''t deserve to be dropped after Charlton. The outcome was plain to see on Saturday at Wolves.

 

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I would like to bet that Spillane and Rossi Jarvis would find it far more cruel being left out after the way they played the other night.

They are professionals at the club and if they can''t step in when there are injuries then they shouldn''t be on the staff. These lads are clearly good enough and from what they have said are dying to play. We could do with some more of their enthusiasm!

Spillane, Cave-Brown, Rossi Jarvis, Lewis and Martin are all very talented youngsters and if we don''t start playing them soon then we are going to lose them elsewhere.

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I''m getting the distinct impression from our dear Nutty''s posts that Gary Doherty and Chris Brown are our two best players, and that Huckerby and Cureton are spoilt goods. An interesting view worthy of discussion, I would have thought.

By the way, how old are Rossi Jarvis and Spillane? Old enough I expect to have a drink and drive a car, but not to kick around a football with a bunch of 20 & 30 year olds - that''s all it is really, it''s not rocket science. If they''re good enough they''re old enough - end of story. If they''re not good enough, then stop wasting our time and the club''s money - and move them on to find their level.

As for cruelty. I think the second biggest cruelty of all is for the fans to have to suffer Peter Grants'' inanities much longer. I leave it to your imagination, dear reader, to figure out what is the biggest cruelty. Answer on a postcard to The Incumbent, Robert Chase''s Unreconstructed  Executive Suite at Carrow Road.

OTBC

 

 

 

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I agree with the posts and, especially in the case of Spillane, feel that the youngsters can generally take care of themslves. I would be anxious about one or two like Bally Smart, who is so quick and has the beating of ponderous "elderly" defenders that he might be chopped down. (I can remember Mark Barham years ago, who was never quite the same after one or two fullbacks had a go at him.)I think that PG''s attitude is from the past - apprenticeship served by watching and then introduced aginst teams  with good disciplinary records an on occasional basis. This is reinforced by studies suggesting that youngsters still growing skeletally until they are 18 have done long term damage to joints, etc., by playing too much football. This may be especially true in the midfield with ferocious tackling.But in this day and age, when they play international matches at various levels, probably mature physically earlier and have excellent monitoring by physios and sports scientists, the old adage may apply -"If they''re good enough, they''re old enough".I look forward to Spillane becoming an established star in a fairly short time, and if he continues in the midfield will provide competition for the likes of Rusty, Smith, Fozzy and Brellier. Rossi perhaps lacks some of the fine skills of Spillane, but on Tuesday''s evidence seems to have potential.One of the best features of the Academy, and perhaps from David Williams period, is the control, movement and passing ability of the graduates. Long may it continue!

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

I''m getting the distinct impression from our dear Nutty''s posts that Gary Doherty and Chris Brown are our two best players, and that Huckerby and Cureton are spoilt goods. An interesting view worthy of discussion, I would have thought.

[/quote]

I''m getting the distinct impression you are trying to read more into my words than what is there Bly. But it''s a fair point for discussion none the less. Lets see if you''re really up to it.

I would say that on the evidence of my own eyes this season that Doherty is definitely one of our best pair of centrtebacks and that Brown is our best targetman. That is not to say that they are the best two players at the club. Do you understand the difference in those two statements?

Discussion is now back in your court Bly, I look forward to your comments.

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

I''m getting the distinct impression from our dear Nutty''s posts that Gary Doherty and Chris Brown are our two best players, and that Huckerby and Cureton are spoilt goods. An interesting view worthy of discussion, I would have thought.

By the way, how old are Rossi Jarvis and Spillane? Old enough I expect to have a drink and drive a car, but not to kick around a football with a bunch of 20 & 30 year olds - that''s all it is really, it''s not rocket science. If they''re good enough they''re old enough - end of story. If they''re not good enough, then stop wasting our time and the club''s money - and move them on to find their level.

As for cruelty. I think the second biggest cruelty of all is for the fans to have to suffer Peter Grants'' inanities much longer. I leave it to your imagination, dear reader, to figure out what is the biggest cruelty. Answer on a postcard to The Incumbent, Robert Chase''s Unreconstructed  Executive Suite at Carrow Road.

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

Must dash........ I''m taking my 25 year son to his pre-school group shortly and promised my 19 year old we would make jelly baby fairy cakes for his ickle party.

Cruel my @rse.......just another namby pamby bucket of slush showing where the heads of the "trendy"  supporters are.

Dear me..........

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[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

I''m getting the distinct impression from our dear Nutty''s posts that Gary Doherty and Chris Brown are our two best players, and that Huckerby and Cureton are spoilt goods. An interesting view worthy of discussion, I would have thought.

By the way, how old are Rossi Jarvis and Spillane? Old enough I expect to have a drink and drive a car, but not to kick around a football with a bunch of 20 & 30 year olds - that''s all it is really, it''s not rocket science. If they''re good enough they''re old enough - end of story. If they''re not good enough, then stop wasting our time and the club''s money - and move them on to find their level.

As for cruelty. I think the second biggest cruelty of all is for the fans to have to suffer Peter Grants'' inanities much longer. I leave it to your imagination, dear reader, to figure out what is the biggest cruelty. Answer on a postcard to The Incumbent, Robert Chase''s Unreconstructed  Executive Suite at Carrow Road.

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

Must dash........ I''m taking my 25 year son to his pre-school group shortly and promised my 19 year old we would make jelly baby fairy cakes for his ickle party.

Cruel my @rse.......just another namby pamby bucket of slush showing where the heads of the "trendy"  supporters are.

Dear me..........

[/quote]

 

 because people like you would spend the game screaming abuse at them cluck. so yes,.... it would of been Cruel...

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Cluck "][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

I''m getting the distinct impression from our dear Nutty''s posts that Gary Doherty and Chris Brown are our two best players, and that Huckerby and Cureton are spoilt goods. An interesting view worthy of discussion, I would have thought.

By the way, how old are Rossi Jarvis and Spillane? Old enough I expect to have a drink and drive a car, but not to kick around a football with a bunch of 20 & 30 year olds - that''s all it is really, it''s not rocket science. If they''re good enough they''re old enough - end of story. If they''re not good enough, then stop wasting our time and the club''s money - and move them on to find their level.

As for cruelty. I think the second biggest cruelty of all is for the fans to have to suffer Peter Grants'' inanities much longer. I leave it to your imagination, dear reader, to figure out what is the biggest cruelty. Answer on a postcard to The Incumbent, Robert Chase''s Unreconstructed  Executive Suite at Carrow Road.

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

Must dash........ I''m taking my 25 year son to his pre-school group shortly and promised my 19 year old we would make jelly baby fairy cakes for his ickle party.

Cruel my @rse.......just another namby pamby bucket of slush showing where the heads of the "trendy"  supporters are.

Dear me..........

[/quote]

 

 because people like you would spend the game screaming abuse at them cluck. so yes,.... it would of been Cruel...

jas :)

[/quote]

No, jas.

They won''t get abuse if either

(a) they''re good enough, or

(b) they give 100% for 90 mins.

What more could they want than opportunity. They''re big people earning good money, not in kindergarten.

Screaming abuse only comes from those who fly over the cuckoo''s nest, and can safely be ignored.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

 

 because people like you would spend the game screaming abuse at them cluck. so yes,.... it would of been Cruel...

jas :)

[/quote]

The only abuse I can remember was given to youngsters in recent years was Henderson, who was atrocious on the right wing, one game against millwall (I think) apart.  Unfortunatly our previous manager seemed to have this position marked out for him, and other strikers and central midfielders as apparantly it was extremely difficult to sign a right winger back in them days............

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I''m with Old Shuck - this a football team.  Cruel is putting a young kid just out of amateur status up against Jon Thaxton not playing against Sheffield Wedesday or other no hopers.   Lets get them both in and Cave Brown as well.  If you''ve got a diamond polish it.

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Spot on Old Shuck!

No-one is saying we should play 6 or 7 youngsters in one go but that is how many people will distort the debate. Currently, two of the best / most promising, played v Man City and won rave reviews. Grant did NOT play them out of choice (although he tried to argue that he always intended to at some stage - Yeah right!). Will he play either or both on Saturday? In the current climate he would be a very brave man (or perhaps just bone headed stuborn) if he did''nt.

Trouble is unless they perform like Brazilian World Cup stars they will soon diappear again and the journeymen brought back.   

As has been said elsewhere on this thread there is no pint whatsoever in pumping £M''s into our Academy if a succession of managers just ignore it. Yes they have to be good enough but they must be given a fair and decent chance to prove one way or the other. 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not worthy of discussion anymore it seems Bly

[/quote]

Not at all Nigel. I was awaiting firstly your elaboration on the other part of the issue. You know, the one you have ducked twice already. Remember? - the part about sulks & spoilt goods and Cureton and Huckerby.

C''mon. Let''s be havin'' you, then!

OTBC

 

 

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I am actually one of the few positive people on here about this season and haven''t changed my opinion once! I back Grant mostly (I think he''s suspect at subs and a few things but he''s not all bad) but in all honesty if he, in our current selection worry does not play Spillane and Jarvis from the start tomorrow then I will be disgusted. I don''t care if we had Pele on saturday against Wolves, if he''d played shocking he deserves to be dropped and replaced with someone who played well (Spillane and Jarvis) Pick a team on form, not reputation.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not worthy of discussion anymore it seems Bly

[/quote]

Not at all Nigel. I was awaiting firstly your elaboration on the other part of the issue. You know, the one you have ducked twice already. Remember? - the part about sulks & spoilt goods and Cureton and Huckerby.

C''mon. Let''s be havin'' you, then!

OTBC

 

 

[/quote]

I believe those are your words Bly. However if you want me to say that in my opinion Hucks and Cureton were totally missing at Wolves then I will say it here and now. And what is more Brown was benched and had to watch that pathetic performance from his replacements. And what is more when Brown finally got on the pitch there was more fight and determination from him than there had been from Hucks and Cureton all game. He didn''t sulk, he just put on the shirt and played for the badge.

That''s just me telling it as it is. How I saw it. Which is all any of us can do. How did it look from your viewpoint?

You trying to make out that I was saying that Brown and Doherty are better than Hucks and Cureton was mischevious at best.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not worthy of discussion anymore it seems Bly

[/quote]

Not at all Nigel. I was awaiting firstly your elaboration on the other part of the issue. You know, the one you have ducked twice already. Remember? - the part about sulks & spoilt goods and Cureton and Huckerby.

C''mon. Let''s be havin'' you, then!

OTBC

[/quote]

I believe those are your words Bly. However if you want me to say that in my opinion Hucks and Cureton were totally missing at Wolves then I will say it here and now. And what is more Brown was benched and had to watch that pathetic performance from his replacements. And what is more when Brown finally got on the pitch there was more fight and determination from him than there had been from Hucks and Cureton all game. He didn''t sulk, he just put on the shirt and played for the badge.

That''s just me telling it as it is. How I saw it. Which is all any of us can do. How did it look from your viewpoint?

You trying to make out that I was saying that Brown and Doherty are better than Hucks and Cureton was mischevious at best.

[/quote]

Yep Nigel, that''s telling it like it is from your perspective. Well done.

As for this. On examination, I can just, ....just about see how you might think that I was implying what you say. No such thing, however..... unfortunately for you![:''(] Apples and oranges & all that - and I''m not into dat![:)] 

''And Doherty heads wide again'' moans the commentator. As the accuracy of his defensive heading is similar to that of his his attacking heading, all we do is finish up giving the ball back to the opposition again. Similarly his distribution from the back by foot. As for his clumsy howlers............enough said.  No, Nigel, good central defending is about more than blocks and  arms and legs and elbows and holding ......plus effort.But I digress........

OTBC 

[|-)][|-)][|-)]

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not worthy of discussion anymore it seems Bly

[/quote]

Not at all Nigel. I was awaiting firstly your elaboration on the other part of the issue. You know, the one you have ducked twice already. Remember? - the part about sulks & spoilt goods and Cureton and Huckerby.

C''mon. Let''s be havin'' you, then!

OTBC

[/quote]

I believe those are your words Bly. However if you want me to say that in my opinion Hucks and Cureton were totally missing at Wolves then I will say it here and now. And what is more Brown was benched and had to watch that pathetic performance from his replacements. And what is more when Brown finally got on the pitch there was more fight and determination from him than there had been from Hucks and Cureton all game. He didn''t sulk, he just put on the shirt and played for the badge.

That''s just me telling it as it is. How I saw it. Which is all any of us can do. How did it look from your viewpoint?

You trying to make out that I was saying that Brown and Doherty are better than Hucks and Cureton was mischevious at best.

[/quote]

Yep Nigel, that''s telling it like it is from your perspective. Well done.

As for this. On examination, I can just, ....just about see how you might think that I was implying what you say. No such thing, however..... unfortunately for you![:''(] Apples and oranges & all that - and I''m not into dat![:)] 

''And Doherty heads wide again'' moans the commentator. As the accuracy of his defensive heading is similar to that of his his attacking heading, all we do is finish up giving the ball back to the opposition again. Similarly his distribution from the back by foot. As for his clumsy howlers............enough said.  No, Nigel, good central defending is about more than blocks and  arms and legs and elbows and holding ......plus effort.But I digress........

OTBC 

[|-)][|-)][|-)]

 

[/quote]

Yep Bly, my viewpoint is what I see with my perspective where as yours is never your own.

I just love these multi-coloured posts! [Y]

 

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