CHASE DESERVES MORE CREDIT

[carl 0]

Was Chase the idiot you all thought he was or was he a financial genious? during his reign he had the vision to purchase land, invest in overseas developments (with the backing of the shareholders), although against the grain, sold some key players for massive figures. Surely he must of had some kind of vision what was going to happen in the future - we as a club had lots of good assets during his time.

 

Now what have we got? no assets, no quality players that would command a high transfer fee - a team where the best players are nearing 30+, and the list goes on debts of £17 million a great future I would say.

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

A visionary? If he had been so he would have concentrated on taking the club forward, there we were, after Milan with the team 2nd in the Premier League, and Mike Walker wanted to invest further in the team. Chase said no. Were we already in debt by then due to his concrete obsession, yes, it turns out we were.

A visionary would have invested then in the team, at a time when teams were more equal than today, a time when we could compete on equal terms with Man U, Arsenal etc. Remember how good the team were then?

What have we got now, not much better to be honest, though however mis-managed we are under Delia, they were at a disadvantage straight away having to manage the debt Chase left behind.

Yes we had a great bunch of players - but at key times Chase sold them - so we never achieved our true potential. Sold them to complete on another land deal.

If he had stayed, would we even have a club to support now?

[canary cherub 1]

Chase''s investment in land instead of players got us relegated from the top flight and undid over 20 years of progress in six months.  End of story.

 

[Robert N. LiM 6,277]

Absolutely, Mystic Meg. This re-writing of history is astonishing. The fact is that we are still recovering from Chase''s "stewardship" of this club. His incompetence (assuming it was incompetence) got us relegated from the Premier League at precisely the worst time to get relegated.

Chase deserves nothing, except possibly a prison sentence.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Robert no longer in Manila"]

Absolutely, Mystic Meg. This re-writing of history is astonishing. The fact is that we are still recovering from Chase''s "stewardship" of this club. His incompetence (assuming it was incompetence) got us relegated from the Premier League at precisely the worst time to get relegated.

Chase deserves nothing, except possibly a prison sentence.

[/quote]

What utter nonsense.  The Chase era brought us more excitement than this club had ever seen before....and soon into the Smith years the debts had been settled by selling off the family silver that Chase put in place. Smith capitalised on what Chase brought to the club....and then promptly dismantled it.

No-one can condone how it all ended up under Chase...but neither can we begin to compare what he gave us compared to Smith.

If you want to talk about incompetence save your whineing for Smith....because at least Chase had some idea of why the paying public turned up on matchdays....and there wasn''t a single souffle in sight. We were a football club back then...not merely a kitchen extension.

[gazzathegreat 0]

If what you say is true Cluck, how come Chase put so much money into building above players, sold the best ones off (and DID NOT invest that money in strengthening the team) Ask Martin O''Neill or Mike Walker!

I am not saying Delia and the board are perfect, far from it, but Chase was largely at the club for his own ends, he despised the fans (I can tell you this with some authority). He surrounded himself with yes men who continually told him things were good, yet he hid the balance sheets from others on the board.

If he was so great - how come he left the club in debt, without Geoffery Watling we would be no more. Chase sold off far more "family silver" than Delia and co have had the chance to do.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="mystic megson"]

 investment in land instead of players got us relegated from the top flight and undid over 20 years of progress in six months.

 

[/quote]

 

its gone full circle has it not? a decade of hard work ruined by 18 months of "off the field activities"... will it end the same way with the riot Horses and shares being sold to a saviour to keep the club afloat as we start life in a new division? we will see.

jas :)

[First Wazzock 1,011]

Cluck wrote

Robert no longer in Manila wrote:

Absolutely, Mystic Meg. This re-writing of history is astonishing. The fact is that we are still recovering from Chase''s "stewardship" of this club. His incompetence (assuming it was incompetence) got us relegated from the Premier League at precisely the worst time to get relegated. Chase deserves nothing, except possibly a prison sentence.

What utter nonsense.  The Chase era brought us more excitement than this club had ever seen before....and soon into the Smith years the debts had been settled by selling off the family silver that Chase put in place. Smith capitalised on what Chase brought to the club....and then promptly dismantled it.

No-one can condone how it all ended up under Chase...but neither can we begin to compare what he gave us compared to Smith.

If you want to talk about incompetence save your whineing for Smith....because at least Chase had some idea of why the paying public turned up on matchdays....and there wasn''t a single souffle in sight. We were a football club back then...not merely a kitchen extension.

How can you defend someone who sells the entire forward line without telling the manger - thats when the family silver went. The thing is people want to see football on the pitch not bits of land round the back of the ground - and before you say it I know that has come in handy recently, but it was still a gamble which could have backfired, and very nearly did.

And believe it or not I am going to say how wonderful the board are, probably all boards could do better and hindsight is great isnt it.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="Steve Burns"]

Cluck wrote

Robert no longer in Manila wrote:

Absolutely, Mystic Meg. This re-writing of history is astonishing. The fact is that we are still recovering from Chase''s "stewardship" of this club. His incompetence (assuming it was incompetence) got us relegated from the Premier League at precisely the worst time to get relegated. Chase deserves nothing, except possibly a prison sentence.

What utter nonsense.  The Chase era brought us more excitement than this club had ever seen before....and soon into the Smith years the debts had been settled by selling off the family silver that Chase put in place. Smith capitalised on what Chase brought to the club....and then promptly dismantled it.

No-one can condone how it all ended up under Chase...but neither can we begin to compare what he gave us compared to Smith.

If you want to talk about incompetence save your whineing for Smith....because at least Chase had some idea of why the paying public turned up on matchdays....and there wasn''t a single souffle in sight. We were a football club back then...not merely a kitchen extension.

How can you defend someone who sells the entire forward line without telling the manger - thats when the family silver went. The thing is people want to see football on the pitch not bits of land round the back of the ground - and before you say it I know that has come in handy recently, but it was still a gamble which could have backfired, and very nearly did.

And believe it or not I am going to say how wonderful the board are, probably all boards could do better and hindsight is great isnt it.

[/quote]

How about because he had a forward line worth selling back then? How much for our current pile of plop then?

Despite his flaws...those of us old enough to remember had some great years under Chase and saw many great players on the park. As a business man I know that nothing is gained without a degree of risk....and it''s a case of win a few...lose a few. Chase gambled too much and lost....Smith never gambled a penny yet has taken us to a lower depth than Chase ever did. Small thinking has engineered a small club....sadly followed by equally small thinking "supporters"...if they can infact be described as such.

You believe what you like with your selective thinking....but Smith and her prudence has destroyed the credibility of this club long term...whereas Chase created a force to be admired. I know which kind of set-up I prefer...risky or not.

[FramCanary 0]

''Cluck'' puts it better than I ever could. Keep up the good work - although educating Smith''s mindless followers is a slow process!.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="Steve Burns"]

Cluck wrote

Robert no longer in Manila wrote:

Absolutely, Mystic Meg. This re-writing of history is astonishing. The fact is that we are still recovering from Chase''s "stewardship" of this club. His incompetence (assuming it was incompetence) got us relegated from the Premier League at precisely the worst time to get relegated. Chase deserves nothing, except possibly a prison sentence.

What utter nonsense.  The Chase era brought us more excitement than this club had ever seen before....and soon into the Smith years the debts had been settled by selling off the family silver that Chase put in place. Smith capitalised on what Chase brought to the club....and then promptly dismantled it.

No-one can condone how it all ended up under Chase...but neither can we begin to compare what he gave us compared to Smith.

If you want to talk about incompetence save your whineing for Smith....because at least Chase had some idea of why the paying public turned up on matchdays....and there wasn''t a single souffle in sight. We were a football club back then...not merely a kitchen extension.

How can you defend someone who sells the entire forward line without telling the manger - thats when the family silver went. The thing is people want to see football on the pitch not bits of land round the back of the ground - and before you say it I know that has come in handy recently, but it was still a gamble which could have backfired, and very nearly did.

And believe it or not I am going to say how wonderful the board are, probably all boards could do better and hindsight is great isnt it.

[/quote]

How about because he had a forward line worth selling back then? How much for our current pile of plop then?

Despite his flaws...those of us old enough to remember had some great years under Chase and saw many great players on the park. As a business man I know that nothing is gained without a degree of risk....and it''s a case of win a few...lose a few. Chase gambled too much and lost....Smith never gambled a penny yet has taken us to a lower depth than Chase ever did. Small thinking has engineered a small club....sadly followed by equally small thinking "supporters"...if they can infact be described as such.

You believe what you like with your selective thinking....but Smith and her prudence has destroyed the credibility of this club long term...whereas Chase created a force to be admired. I know which kind of set-up I prefer...risky or not.

[/quote]

Well said Cluck. Yes Chase done damage but look where we are still and at the end of the day the FOOTBALL [you know that thing we spend the cash to go to CR to watch?] is utter crap and has pretty much always played second fiddle under DS......Seems the saviour myth lives on!

[ricardo 8,034]

Yeh, Chase made a real balls up of it in the end but the years he was in charge are still the peak of our achievement.

I was glad to see the back of him at the time but little did I suspect we would end up back at square one.

[lucky green trainers 0]

chase screwed up and landed us in this mess.  gunny broke his ankle at notts forest at xmas, we were 6th in the league.  rather than get an able replacement in - we played rookie andy marshall.  result - we fell like a stone down the table until we got relegated.  we''ve been in the crud ever since.  how clever was that???

[whoareyou? 0]

I reckon Cluck must be Robert Chase in disguise.!

The man very very nearly finished the club off by his senseless borrowing. How short some people''s minds are. Or should that be small!!!

[One Flew Over... 33]

"CHASE DESERVES MORE CREDIT"

I thought that was the problem in the first place...

[Napster cel Mare 0]

Now that really does take the biscuit - talk about a rose tinted veiw of the past!

Three reasons why:

Refused Walkers, request to loosen the purse strings

Refused the funds to buy Dean Windass

Forced Martin O''Neil quit due his failure to deliver the promised funds

Topcat

 

[vos 176]

Chase was by some distance the greatest Chairman we ever had. Took us to FA Cup semi-finals, Europe and held our own in the old Div 1. We played a lot of attractive football which is light years ahead of the current squad. His shrewd land investments, criticised by some of the current Board, have considerably helped over recent years. The financial position at the time was no more worse than it is now. When he left his critics were moaning about £5 million of debt. Now, including all creditors, we owe £27 million. I agree he was not the best of communicators but I am sure he would make a better job of things than the current regime.

[PaulyH 0]

Some people are so flaming thinck! So what of Chases investments paid of years later? If that money had been spent on players instead of land then the money gained from pushing on from our 3rd place finish and UEFA cup run would have made us premier secure and maybe even top 6 contenders on a regular bases. The money we got from his investements would literally be a drop in the oceon compared to regular sky income a massive stadium packed full and premiership income.Even if Chases investments came in at £30m so what? If he hadn''t bled us dry we would be getting £30m plus EVERY YEAR  but no. Its Delias fault isn''t it. Retards!

[vos 176]

Bimbo. I can assure you that I am not thick and under no circumstances did Robert Chase bleed us dry. That is a complete myth. There is absolutely no guarantee that if we kept Martin O''Neill and bought Windass we would have retained premiership status. The present Board have recently taken out a loan of £1300000 i.e. over a million pounds (per latest accounts). And what have they spent it on - office development at Carrow Road !!! 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="vos"]Bimbo. I can assure you that I am not thick and under no circumstances did Robert Chase bleed us dry. That is a complete myth. There is absolutely no guarantee that if we kept Martin O''Neill and bought Windass we would have retained premiership status. The present Board have recently taken out a loan of £1300000 i.e. over a million pounds (per latest accounts). And what have they spent it on - office development at Carrow Road !!! [/quote]

I too can assure you that you are not thick....and such valid thinking is a nice breath of fresh air. Seems the seed of Delia''s Immaculate Saviourhood have taken deep roots in Turnipland........

[Steve H 0]

Fancy building those new stands and corner infills and buying land to build on during a recession, wasn''t the construction industry very hard hit at that time, which company got all the contracts for that??? Someone local wasn''t it??? ...

... His construction Comapny did ok though didn''t it.

I''m not suggesting anything illegal or decitful, but merely suggesting a reason why he was more interested in "concrete" and "assets" than he was players.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]A visionary? If he had been so he would have concentrated on taking the club forward, there we were, after Milan with the team 2nd in the Premier League, and Mike Walker wanted to invest further in the team. Chase said no. Were we already in debt by then due to his concrete obsession, yes, it turns out we were. A visionary would have invested then in the team, at a time when teams were more equal than today, a time when we could compete on equal terms with Man U, Arsenal etc. Remember how good the team were then? What have we got now, not much better to be honest, though however mis-managed we are under Delia, they were at a disadvantage straight away having to manage the debt Chase left behind. Yes we had a great bunch of players - but at key times Chase sold them - so we never achieved our true potential. Sold them to complete on another land deal. If he had stayed, would we even have a club to support now?[/quote]

So Chase didn''t want to take the club forward. Don''t be st*pid.

I have been following City since 1957 and we have always been a selling club. Always. it''s the way of our world Gazza. Accept it. What is most important is how the matter is handled.

When the aggressive bank manager stepped in with his demands under Chase we had a debt of 6m and readily realisable assets of 11m in the form of Craig Bellamy and Keith O''Neill - plus valuable players such as Darren Eadie, Lee Marshall, Andy Johnson etc were coming through.

Who set up our fabulous youth system at that time and developed Colney? Chase.

Who acquired the land assets that this lot has capitalised on and substantially mis-ued/ Chase.

Who appointed Martin O''Neil - potentially our best ever manager? Chase

Chase''s biggest mistake was not facing down a ''motivated'' bank manager in order to acquire dean Windass and thus complete Martin O''Neil''s promotion strategy.

And finally who took us though almost 10 years of unparalled success. Chase.

Chase was ultimately undone by a ''motivated'' bank manager (who by his action deprived his employers of subsantial future profits from what would probably have become a solidly prem based business - NCFC.

Our current lot have a squad worth diddly squat, are 20th in the chumpionship, have just sold our 3 most valuable players, are denying our apprentice manager worthwhile transfer funds - and have just taken out a loan of 1.6m to develop office accommodation.

Chase was a big man with big ideas who risked for success and was vengefully knocked down when he tripped - but the public didn''t like his personna. Smith is a little woman with limited vision reluctant to risk for success and is adored for pretending to be one of the crowd (you know, one of us - one of us - wow!) and being a ''TV Personality'' .....woweeeee, for making a fool of herself, and defending ''my little old norwich'' in the face of those big baddies.

A classic capitalist/socialist issue really. Unfortunately our ''saviour'' has achieved rather like a clueless Jim Callagan in drag, rather than a triumphant results based Margaret Thatcher. You know, big bad Chase stole our milk ----- oh  boohoohooohooo boohoo[:''(]

25,000 bums on seats, 20th, a subsidised restaurant and the Doherty and Brown show. Yep we''re on the move - sopping up a culture of failure.

FFS. Bring back Chase - or, or ..................... where are you, Son of Chase.

Vacancies at Carrow Road. Wanted at all levels .......... achievers. That''s all.

OTBC

 

 

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

So why then did Chase not GO FORWARD on the pitch BBB? Especially after we had played in Europe? Because, unknown to everyone else, he was already deep in mire, up to his neck in debt. Sure he built Colney - but that was due to the lease at Trowse coming to an end. What he did build there was excessive perhaps, the much heralded hydrotherapy pool lay empty and unused as there wasn''t the cash. I am not surprised the bank manager was agressive, but was Chase running the club so well that he had to sell Newsome and Ward SO suddenly? Thing is about the land Bly, it can''t play football. He directed his efforts more into concrete than the playing staff. Ask Martin O''Neill. By the way, he didn''t want O''Neill appointed, but was advised to do so by the rest of the board to appease the fans. Who though didn''t invest at an ideal time under Walker? Chase. Who didn''t give Martin O''Neill the funds available for players? Chase. He may well have been a man of big ideas, involving a lot of concrete and tarmac mostly. I am in agreement with you over the youth policy to develop players, but not to sell them on and not create success for ourselves whenever possible. Delia and co haven''t made much success of it, granted, but they had a handicap left them as a result of one man holding the majority of the shares and mis-managing the club. We were about to go out of business when he was forced out. Success? I will leave you to decide. I don''t pretend to be happy over the way the club is run now, we also have a majority shareholder(s). We again have stunning PR!! But let''s not change history and say we would have been better off with Mr Chase in control. There would be no club.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Gazza.

I am afraid that rose-tinted memories of a youthful and romantic cause-celebre ( you know, you and the family facing up to those great, fearsome horses in Carrow Road) muddy your analyses of the time.

Fact. The club would not have gone under. We had asset transfer value of 11m (Bellamy, O''Neil) as against a 6m debt.

Small people panicked at that time.

Small people are in charge today.

The culture of small is at the heart of our current dilemma.

OTBC

P.S. You also really must take on board the fact that City have always been a selling club, and most likely always will be. All our past success has been underpinned by the philosophy of sell expensive, replace cheaply - and hope to hell that we get it right more often than not. That''s the key ingedient in our past success, but unfortunately for us the current lot are getting it woefully wrong.

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="PJ Bimbo"]Retards!
[/quote]

Oh how eloquent and charming!.

What a nasty piece of work you are.[:@]

[Old Shuck 291]

[quote user="vos"]Chase was by some distance the greatest Chairman we ever had. Took us to FA Cup semi-finals, Europe and held our own in the old Div 1. We played a lot of attractive football which is light years ahead of the current squad. His shrewd land investments, criticised by some of the current Board, have considerably helped over recent years. The financial position at the time was no more worse than it is now. When he left his critics were moaning about £5 million of debt. Now, including all creditors, we owe £27 million. I agree he was not the best of communicators but I am sure he would make a better job of things than the current regime.[/quote]

Yes, and it was criminal that we did not build on the success that the team achieved during that period. Success, incidentally, that came about despite of Chase, not because of him. We could have won the Premiership, yes, read it again-we could, and SHOULD, have won the Premiership that season. It was Christmas/January 1991/92 that Mike Walker started to say we needed to invest in some more players, decent players, to improve the squad and help secure, what was, at one point, an 8 or 9 point lead at the top of the Premiership. For reasons unknown, this never happened, despite success, if and when it had, wiping out any expenditure, it seemed that no-one believed it would happen, and it never did, indeed, it eventually needed a lucky draw vs Middlesbrough on the last day of the season, plus Arsenals FA Cup victory for us to even get that place in Europe.

The current detractors of the club quote ad-infinitum what they hear from the Board etc etc, we had it all from Chase as well, the famous "...if Chris Sutton isn''t here at the start of the season, then neither will I...", remember that one?

Believe me, we were in a lot more danger of going under when he left the club than we are now, the figures might be different, but £5 Million nearly 15 years ago was a serious amount and shouldn''t, in any way, be called a small amount compared to now.

The malaise that affects the club now all stems back from the failure to build upon those winning seasons, like it or not, and he was at the helm at the time. Yes, he did do good things for the club, but, like Worthy being pilloried last season, despite winning us a Championship, Chase will always be remembered for the negatives and to portray him now as some sort of hero-you want one of those, look at Sir Geoffrey Watling-is completely and utterly ridiculous.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Oh don''t worry Bly, I don''t own a pair of rose tinted, now, nor during Chase''s reign. If I had, maybe I would have sat and watched us go down the pan along with plenty of others. Yes, I stood up to the man (as did thousands of others at the time). Yes, myself and others were mown down by police horses. Great. Nice of you to say I was youthful though, I think I was about 36 at the time. Not so young.

It however doesn''t distort my thinking. The club was going under. It''s been well documented, or don''t you believe anyone other than Mr Chase. What about Mr Watling? No one in the media either, or anyone connected to the club?

Are you therefore classing everyone who stood up and protested against Chase as small? Some were pretty tall from where I was standing. I guess a lot of those same people are now questioning the present regime. There are a few old faces on this very messageboard who are doing just that at the present time.

But don''t let your good self fall into your own trap of creating Chase into a magical Chairman. Like everyone he made some good decisions, but they sadly were far outweighed by the bad.

Whatever the transfer value of Bellamy and O''Neill, it didn''t seem to cut much favour with the bank did it? So I guess their sales alone would not have stopped the inevitable.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

Gazza.

I am afraid that rose-tinted memories of a youthful and romantic cause-celebre ( you know, you and the family facing up to those great, fearsome horses in Carrow Road) muddy your analyses of the time.

Fact. The club would not have gone under. We had asset transfer value of 11m (Bellamy, O''Neil) as against a 6m debt.

Small people panicked at that time.

Small people are in charge today.

The culture of small is at the heart of our current dilemma.

OTBC

P.S. You also really must take on board the fact that City have always been a selling club, and most likely always will be. All our past success has been underpinned by the philosophy of sell expensive, replace cheaply - and hope to hell that we get it right more often than not. That''s the key ingedient in our past success, but unfortunately for us the current lot are getting it woefully wrong.

 

[/quote]

Absolutely perfect BlyBly.......Post of the decade!     11/10 [*]

 

[Old Shuck 291]

Cluck, I had taken you for an adult until I noted your "Delia Smiths....etc" statement on the end of your messages -and all others-now I''m not so sure, still, free country and all that, maybe you thought it up whilst you were playing conkers with the rest of the 4th form or something...

I want you to define how, in your vision, the supposed "small" people running the club today can prove themselves worthy of your approval?

What, exactly, has the club got to do, to "prove" its ambition? Realistic please, don''t just say "...get new investment..." because you can''t just go out and get new investment like you go out and get your copy of the Daily Mail every morning.

...and etc. Thankyou.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Success in football is all about winning football matches. History will prove that conclusively. Just like history will back up BBBs assertion thaty we have always been a selling club, there is no doubt he is right.

When I first went to Carrow Road in the 60''s Geoffrey Watlings board was very unpopular, we had just sold Ron Davies and proceeded to replace him with a succession of  so called "journeymen". We finished in mid-table in this league after flirting with the bottom six but not challenging the top six. The fans were unhappy, there was disgraceful chanting against Watling from the Barclay and eventually the manager, Lol Morgan, was sacked. We appointed Ron Saunders and the mood didn''t immediately lift, we finished mid-table again and got knocked out of both cups at the first attempt to Hull and Wrexham. We were playing dire football too and the mood of the fans was as black as it is today. Then Saunders started to get it right and in 1972 we won promotion for the first time and Watling was popular again.

At various times throughout the next 25 years managers and boards came under pressure but it was always linked to results and league position. By the end of August in the season after our Milk Cup win and subsequent relegation we had only won one and lost three of our first five games. Letters to the press demanded change and demanded that youth be given a chance. But we turned things around and won the league but not in time to save the board from being forced to resign supposedly over "off the pitch" issues". This was where the Chase era began.

The next 10 years were the most succesfull in that we attained our highest ever finish and played in Europe for the first time. Chase was as popular as any chairman of my time during this success. People only started questioning him when things went wrong and we got relegated. A poor season in this league did for him despite claims to the contrary.

The difference between Watling/South/Chase and the present board is that they all had more seasons of relative success than failure. In the short period of success that this board had there were fans demanding a statue be built in their honour and they could do no wrong even though the policy was much the same as it is now.

We don''t really need to scrutinise the accounts to look for reasons why this board are failing our club, we just have to look at the results and check the league table. If we have many more seasons like the last two then I believe change will happen, protests against the board will ultimately force the issue. But if this season miraculously turns around and we win games and mount a serious challenge at the top of the table then off the field issues won''t be enough on their own to force any issue.

Wiz gets a lot of stick on here for his continual changes in direction but to be fair he is a true barometer of the mood of the fans. You can look see what he posts on a Friday and that will judge the mood of the fans on the Saturday far more accurately than me with my thick yellow and green welding goggles or some of you others with your equally thick specs tinted by the brown stuff. When we won this league Wiz wanted a statue of Delia and now results are so poor he wants her out.

In the end results and league position is all that matters.