Hotel was a bad idea.

[colneycanary 0]

Building a hotel in the corner of the barclay and jarrold was such a bad idea. On saturday i only saw two rooms being used and two people watching the match. Last month we had the incident of the away fan after being ejected from the ground and going straight in and getting a room facing the pitch. It doesn''t exactly look great either and it would of been far better turning it into another stand, and adding another two or three thousand to the ground capacity.  Too late now!

[burn down the ipswich 0]

im thinking of starting a thread about the the pope being a catholic, or maybe about bears s***ing in the woods.

[FU MAN SHOE 0]

Yep...the boat has truly sailed on this one...However I wonder when, and presumably it would have to be something more successful than just one more season in the Premiership, we would consider adding further capacity to CR?

Could we build over the City Stand? Could another tier go above the Jarrold?...just cant see any of those happening...the disruption would be just too much.

 

[NCFC_Shaun 0]

definately wud have loved another corner stand. would have added more areas which sing as well as its net to the main singing bit of the barclay and the away fans!

[yellow blood 0]

Half the seats in any corner bit would have to be left as "no-man''s land"  especially as it would be between the Barclay and the away supporters...the Jarrold is slightly different given the relative "nature" of the two stands.

I don''t understand why you are complaining that there were only a couple of people watching from the hotel on Saturday. Surely, the point of the hotel is somewhere for people to stay when they visit the fine City and not a place where you can get a free view of the football?

[At last? 0]

strange comment.

hotels are used at night usually.

I would be suprised if it wasnt 90% full at least that evening.

[a1canary 0]

Are we going to bring up a post on this every other month? Sorry but it has been done to death on here so many times!! Some think it was stupid, something think we got a good deal from it. Can we just leave it at that?

[colneycanary 0]

The idea of having rooms facing the pitch was clearly to have football fans watching the game from their rooms. I would not of minded a hotel built into the corner but road side only and  not pitch side. Just 2 rooms being used out of 30-40 rooms during a match is just a waste. This hotel is stuck here for good now and any major ground improvements will have to be built around this ugly white and black thing in the corner! 

[James Kent 0]

i think your thread misses the point.  A new stand was never an option as the money wasn''t available, so the club had to think of another way to raise money with limited investment.  I personally think the club have done fantastically well and whatever happens the club will benefit from it.  What you have to understand is that we can''t base everything off what we would like to have.  The club have to have ventures to try and cut the money we lose every month and Travel Norwich City, Hotel, Restaurants are all part of this.  Building another stand would just push the club further in debt and increase the on going running costs.  The club have to expand in a sensible way.

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="topoftheleague"]Building a hotel in the corner of the barclay and jarrold was such a bad idea. On saturday i only saw two rooms being used and two people watching the match. Last month we had the incident of the away fan after being ejected from the ground and going straight in and getting a room facing the pitch. It doesn''t exactly look great either and it would of been far better turning it into another stand, and adding another two or three thousand to the ground capacity.  Too late now![/quote]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

[Karl Pilkington 0]

This topic is a bit of a boomerang. It goes away for a while then comes back again after a couple of months.

I have no problem with the hotel.

[Chunky! 0]

[quote user="topoftheleague"]Building a hotel in the corner of the barclay and jarrold was such a bad idea. On saturday i only saw two rooms being used and two people watching the match. Last month we had the incident of the away fan after being ejected from the ground and going straight in and getting a room facing the pitch. It doesn''t exactly look great either and it would of been far better turning it into another stand, and adding another two or three thousand to the ground capacity.  Too late now![/quote]

I don''t think the hotel is a bad idea, we get a cut of profits without any of the risk of building it, and as stated previously on this (and other) threads, it would have added very little to our capacity due to restrictions on pitch access and space between home and away fans. 

It would have been nice to increase the capacity but its not quite as simple as we want more capacity, lets throw some more seats in!  Can''t people see that there are alot of factors beyond football when it comes to ground regulations and running a business?!  As much as we want it to be about football and as simple as, we have a turnover of £XX million, lets spend XX million on players and wages, its just not nowaways, and isn''t even that simple in the very bottom leagues -  My local Blue Square north team has a brand new corporate suite, which many fans were against, but has paid for itself and brought money into the club within months!  It also has a community IT centre - again, people were against it but its paid for itself and brought a local government grant in.

OTBC!

Chunky

[blahblahblah 2]

There should be a frequently raised threads thread I reckon.

A corner infill would only have held about 800 seats.  The hotel makes us money and didn''t cost us to build it.  It will make more money than the seats would have.  Many other clubs up and down the league either have hotels within their facilities or are building them.  Even Millwall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_F.C.

[quote]In 2006, Millwall''s Board unveiled an ambitious scheme to regenerate the area surrounding The New Den Stadium backed by new investors. Sports City is to become a major redevolpment of housing and a hotel with the football ground a central point.

In March 2007 Chestnut Hill Ventures, led by John G Berylson, who have interests in business and financial services, retail, property and sport invested £5m into the club. In addition to this investment, a further £1.5m was raised from investment from other parties and existing directors of the company and former chairman Peter de Savary invested another £500,000.

Graham F. Lacey, became the club''s biggest shareholder, buying 15% of shares in Millwall Holdings plc, invested £1million as part of the package.

Berylson became non-executive chairman of Millwall Holdings plc and a director of the club, while his colleague Demos Kouvaris joined both boards.

"This is tremendous news for Millwall and our fans," said Heather Rabbatts, who will continue to run the club in the role of executive deputy chairman.[/quote]

 

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="Jim Kent"]i think your thread misses the point.  A new stand was never an option as the money wasn''t available, so the club had to think of another way to raise money with limited investment.  I personally think the club have done fantastically well and whatever happens the club will benefit from it.  What you have to understand is that we can''t base everything off what we would like to have.  The club have to have ventures to try and cut the money we lose every month and Travel Norwich City, Hotel, Restaurants are all part of this.  Building another stand would just push the club further in debt and increase the on going running costs.  The club have to expand in a sensible way.[/quote]

Fair enough, but Travel Norwich City, the Restaurants etc. all cost good money to start up and run and i haven`t seen too much evidence that they are contributing much to the coffers. Focussing on projects such as these is a risky strategy whilst the team struggles on the pitch IMO.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Karl Pilkington"]

This topic is a bit of a boomerang. It goes away for a while then comes back again after a couple of months.

I have no problem with the hotel.

[/quote]

It never really goes away, it''s kept handy so there''s something to moan about when we win [:|]

[8] Since my baby left me...................................... [;)]

 

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

There should be a frequently raised threads thread I reckon.

A corner infill would only have held about 800 seats.  The hotel makes us money and didn''t cost us to build it.  It will make more money than the seats would have.  Many other clubs up and down the league either have hotels within their facilities or are building them.  Even Millwall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_F.C.

[quote]In 2006, Millwall''s Board unveiled an ambitious scheme to regenerate the area surrounding The New Den Stadium backed by new investors. Sports City is to become a major redevolpment of housing and a hotel with the football ground a central point.

In March 2007 Chestnut Hill Ventures, led by John G Berylson, who have interests in business and financial services, retail, property and sport invested £5m into the club. In addition to this investment, a further £1.5m was raised from investment from other parties and existing directors of the company and former chairman Peter de Savary invested another £500,000.

Graham F. Lacey, became the club''s biggest shareholder, buying 15% of shares in Millwall Holdings plc, invested £1million as part of the package.

Berylson became non-executive chairman of Millwall Holdings plc and a director of the club, while his colleague Demos Kouvaris joined both boards.

"This is tremendous news for Millwall and our fans," said Heather Rabbatts, who will continue to run the club in the role of executive deputy chairman.[/quote]

 

[/quote]

a hotel in the heart of Canary wharf! no wonder it will make money... bit of a far cry from a hotel in the middle of the red light district in norwich eh?!

jas :)

[James Kent 0]

Mr Carrow I respect your opinion, but simply can not agree with you.  First of all the Hotel hasn''t cost us anything we have just sold/rented the land and get a share of the profits in return.  So I don''t honestly see what we can lose against this venture, unless you are going to tell me that we lose an infill stand.  Well I would say to that it would have limted capacity and would cost us quite a lot at least half a million I would think.  Also do we really need it, we still haven''t sold all our season tickets and our last two turnouts have been 24,000 not 26,000. 

As for the other ventures well yes they do cost money to start up, but they all help to increase the profile of the club.  Also you seem to be judging the money side directly by how much money we have to spend in the transfer market, when this is only a small amount of our money.  There are a lot of expenses to running a football club such as ground maintance, training facilties, certain technologies to judge and improve players performance.  Now these ventures all help to manage costs and reduce debts when possible.

[Bogbrush 0]

This has been well covered before but I still cannot believe the attitude of the likes of Blahblahblah. Regardless of the fact that the hotel infill may generate more income than additional fans, it is palpable nonsense to argue that the hotel was the right choice. If you accept this argument then it follows logically that the South Stand should be converted into an Asda hypermarket, the City Stand should be a multiplex cinema and so on. Why not stop there ? Just think of the income that could be generated from building high rise rental appartments on the pitch itself ? But then of course the football club would cease to exist ..........                                                                                                                                                                                              

[mbncfc 1]

[quote user="Baron Bludgeon"]This has been well covered before but I still cannot believe the attitude of the likes of Blahblahblah. Regardless of the fact that the hotel infill may generate more income than additional fans, it is palpable nonsense to argue that the hotel was the right choice. If you accept this argument then it follows logically that the South Stand should be converted into an Asda hypermarket, the City Stand should be a multiplex cinema and so on. Why not stop there ? Just think of the income that could be generated from building high rise rental appartments on the pitch itself ? But then of course the football club would cease to exist ..........                                                                                                                                                                                              [/quote]

The infill would have cost millions of pounds for 700 seats.

It wasn''t viable, and now there is a hotel in the way, it''s even less viable. [:P]

[Le Juge 0]

[quote user="Baron Bludgeon"]This has been well covered before but I still cannot believe the attitude of the likes of Blahblahblah. Regardless of the fact that the hotel infill may generate more income than additional fans, it is palpable nonsense to argue that the hotel was the right choice. If you accept this argument then it follows logically that the South Stand should be converted into an Asda hypermarket, the City Stand should be a multiplex cinema and so on. Why not stop there ? Just think of the income that could be generated from building high rise rental appartments on the pitch itself ? But then of course the football club would cease to exist ..........                                                                                                                                                                                              [/quote]What a ridiculous exaggeration.

 

Facts as far as I am aware - correct me if I''m wrong:

* Corner will give you very little useable seating area.

* Corner infill will cost you a decent whack of money

* Therefore Ccorner infill is very expensive for what it does

* NCFC have high debt and little available money

* NCFC would be a little silly to spend large money they really don''t have that will yield very little gain.

* NCFC have an idea which will cost them no money which could potentially produce profits while losing very little (small space of land which is not particularly useful)

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]If you accept this argument then it follows logically that the South Stand should be converted into an Asda hypermarket, the City Stand should be a multiplex cinema and so on. [/quote]

No it doesn''t.  I can accept the loss of 800 seats for a revenue stream that will exceed the sale of those seats 25 times a year.  However, there is a balance to be drawn, and your logical extension of my argument is not only unbalanced, it is unhinged, and therefore doesn''t stand up.

[macdougalls perm 0]

Baron Bludgeon,

It''s all about moderation - many good ideas are based on logic which, in itself becomes ludicrous when taken to extremes. I can''t think of any courses of action that still make sense when pushed to extremes, can you?  Please let me know if you can.

[yellerbird 0]

Going back to the point made on the first page about rooms not being used - we''ve booked 3 pitch facing rooms for one of the games we''ve got tickets for. Being a supporter who''s never lived near Norwich having the hotel there means that we can put our stuff somewhere, walk to the game and not have to rush off afterwards, admittedly we could stay somewhere else, but this is just a bit different! Having a pitch view is (for us) a gimmick but am looking forward to the experience of watching any pre-match stuff going on that we otherwise wouldn''t see!

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="yellerbird"]

Going back to the point made on the first page about rooms not being used - we''ve booked 3 pitch facing rooms for one of the games we''ve got tickets for. Being a supporter who''s never lived near Norwich having the hotel there means that we can put our stuff somewhere, walk to the game and not have to rush off afterwards, admittedly we could stay somewhere else, but this is just a bit different! Having a pitch view is (for us) a gimmick but am looking forward to the experience of watching any pre-match stuff going on that we otherwise wouldn''t see!

[/quote]

it works out cheaper indiviudally for 4 people to watch a game from a hotel room window than it would 1 person buying a ticket for a match... work out the Price of a room then work out the cost divided by 4... its cheaper than a match ticket..

an own goal by the club of the biggest order! add together all the free things the hotel chucks in (Drinks etc) and u could book1 night at the hotel, watching the game for less money then u could if u bought a ticket and have all drinks laid on... Crap!

jas :)

[Mello Yello 2,572]

The hotel wasn''t a bad idea. Putting a football ground next to it - was a bad idea.......

Still think the facing wall looks like a Victorian Gentlemen''s Urinal......I suppose the windows give one something to aim for if you have a full bladder and a decent aim...

[Bogbrush 0]

Oh come on McDougall Sperm. I was of course employing the universally accepted principle of exaggeration to prove a point. Tell me, how many other clubs in all divisions have a hotel or part of a hotel as an integral part of their football stadium ?

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="Jim Kent"]

Mr Carrow I respect your opinion, but simply can not agree with you.  First of all the Hotel hasn''t cost us anything we have just sold/rented the land and get a share of the profits in return.  So I don''t honestly see what we can lose against this venture, unless you are going to tell me that we lose an infill stand.  Well I would say to that it would have limted capacity and would cost us quite a lot at least half a million I would think.  Also do we really need it, we still haven''t sold all our season tickets and our last two turnouts have been 24,000 not 26,000. 

As for the other ventures well yes they do cost money to start up, but they all help to increase the profile of the club.  Also you seem to be judging the money side directly by how much money we have to spend in the transfer market, when this is only a small amount of our money.  There are a lot of expenses to running a football club such as ground maintance, training facilties, certain technologies to judge and improve players performance.  Now these ventures all help to manage costs and reduce debts when possible.

[/quote]

I`m not argueing with you about the hotel Jim, i suppose i see it as a neccessary evil.

There is a small contradiction in your post when you say that the other ventures increase the profile of the club, yet crowds are going down. I think, being realistic, we can all agree that the nice facilities won`t keep Carrow Rd. full if the team continue to be poor.

Yes there are alot of expenses in running a football club. However, the £26.5million of capital expenditure in the last four financial years (that we have details of) was clearly not spent solely on things absolutely vital to the existance of NCFC. It`s about choices and priorities. The board have clearly prioritised the off-pitch stuff over the team and we can all see the result.

Travel companies, Restaurants, Event Security companies are not guaranteed to make a profit and expensively built offices to rent out are not guaranteed to be filled. If this were the case investing in the stock market would be an easy path to riches. It`s a gamble.

[colneycanary 0]

Should of been a hotel at the front built into a corner stand with a couple of thouand seats and a seperate viewing area for the hotel guests.

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Baron Bludgeon"]

Oh come on McDougall Sperm. I was of course employing the universally accepted principle of exaggeration to prove a point. Tell me, how many other clubs in all divisions have a hotel or part of a hotel as an integral part of their football stadium ?

[/quote]

Since when has exaggeration been universally accepted to prove a point - seems to me like it does the opposite. This post is even more preposterous than your last one, lol! [:D]   

[yellow blood 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="yellerbird"]

Going back to the point made on the first page about rooms not being used - we''ve booked 3 pitch facing rooms for one of the games we''ve got tickets for. Being a supporter who''s never lived near Norwich having the hotel there means that we can put our stuff somewhere, walk to the game and not have to rush off afterwards, admittedly we could stay somewhere else, but this is just a bit different! Having a pitch view is (for us) a gimmick but am looking forward to the experience of watching any pre-match stuff going on that we otherwise wouldn''t see!

[/quote]

it works out cheaper indiviudally for 4 people to watch a game from a hotel room window than it would 1 person buying a ticket for a match... work out the Price of a room then work out the cost divided by 4... its cheaper than a match ticket..

an own goal by the club of the biggest order! add together all the free things the hotel chucks in (Drinks etc) and u could book1 night at the hotel, watching the game for less money then u could if u bought a ticket and have all drinks laid on... Crap!

jas :)

[/quote]

 

Thought the "ruling" was not more than 2 people to a room during a game? Can you tell me of the hotels that "chuck in" free drinks etc. as the majority I''ve stayed in charge extortionate prices?

Not knowing which rooms are pitch facing but I would assume they are the executive rooms then the night of 29th September (Sheff Wed), the cheapest is £81.00. You also cannot hire 1 room for 4 adults!! More expensive than 2 match tickets...

...Talking crap Jas?