England

[ManchesterCanary 0]

Just to get off the suject of NCFC for a bit...I see Brooking is the latest to blame foreign talent in our game for a crap England team (btw dont they remind you of Norwich?). I suggest its more like the following;

Incompetent FA choosing Naff managers (where was Cloughy, where is Hiddink)

Playstations  - dont get me onto that one...do you see kids kicking a ball about the park or street anymore? All our potential young talent is going four-eyed looking at black boxes.

Our teams are mentally weak (don''t get me onto penalty shoot-outs)

Thatcher...cos I blame her for everything. 

Any other theories...?

[RobertMack 0]

I dont see it as foreign talent, more a lack of english talent as its not as though we have loads of english players in top leagues over the world, obviosly excepting MLS.

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

I personally feel the talent is there, it just isn''t nurtured properly as stupid clubs are buying in cheap foreign imports to be a stop gap solution. I feel all the foreign money and Sky are more responsible for the general feel bad factor.

However

Micah Richards

Aaron Lennon

Theo Walcott

Ashley Young

These guys are awesome and in a

couple of years we will be awesome on the attack

Stupid English managers playing stupid tactics is also a  problem.

Gerrard and Lampard in the middle, and they still don''t get it.

[BBFF 0]

[quote user="ManchesterCanary"]

Just to get off the suject of NCFC for a bit...I see Brooking is the latest to blame foreign talent in our game for a crap England team (btw dont they remind you of Norwich?). I suggest its more like the following;

Incompetent FA choosing Naff managers (where was Cloughy, where is Hiddink)

Playstations  - dont get me onto that one...do you see kids kicking a ball about the park or street anymore? All our potential young talent is going four-eyed looking at black boxes.

Our teams are mentally weak (don''t get me onto penalty shoot-outs)

Thatcher...cos I blame her for everything. 

Any other theories...?

[/quote]Its down to the free movement of labour in Europe, come out of the E.U. then we can make our own rules on all foreign players over here. I would like to see you can have as many as you like but can only play 3 at the most in any team. Should we really have foreign owners too? Thats one to think about.

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

bring back the old rule of only being allowed 5 foriegners in your entire team, look at the talent we produced wen we had that rule, shearersheringhambeckhamscholesadamsnevillesle sauxgazzainceseamanmartynbutt and many more, problem is aswel it should be a privalege to pay for your country so u shouldnt get paid for playing for your country, yeah get a bonus if u win a major trophy,

problem isnt lack of talent on the field its the lack of decent managersvenables was a great england managerrobson was a great england managerdare i say so was sventrouble with todays england is that they rely upon the same old crap and dont give any of th new a chancemy team selection for england if they were all fit would be GKfoster

DEFbridgerichardsferdinandterryMIDDowninggerrardhargreaves(Captain)lennonATTashtonjohnstonmixture if young and mature players

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]

my team selection for england if they were all fit would be

GK
foster


DEF

bridge
richards
ferdinand
terry

MID

Downing
gerrard
hargreaves(Captain)
lennon

ATT

ashton
johnston

mixture if young and mature players
[/quote]

That would be your England team if everyone was fit??? I dread to think what it''d be like if there were injuries.

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

Mclowns love child Downing shouldn''t even be allowed to play for Scotland|

Johnson IMO, nowhere near good enough

[Buncey 1]

Thank the lord for Norwich, Ipswich, West Ham, Villa, Boro and some of the smaller clubs like crewe otherwise we''d have no english players.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]bring back the old rule of only being allowed 5 foriegners in your entire team, look at the talent we produced wen we had that rule,


my team selection for england if they were all fit would be

GK
foster


DEF

bridge
richards
ferdinand
terry

MID

Downing
gerrard
hargreaves(Captain)
lennon

ATT

ashton
johnston

mixture if young and mature players
[/quote]

 

I suppose it''s alright apart from 2 things, where is ROONEY, by far and away the best striker we have available, and where is Joe Cole, much better than Downing.

 

I don''t see the worry about the lack of int''l class young talent coming through, unless the worry is the 15-16 year olds coming through now.

In 7-8 years time, our team could be (without anymore kids coming through, which they inevitably will):

 

GK: Foster (maybe even our own Joe Lewis!)

RB: Richards

DC: Dawson

DC: Taylor

LB: Baines

RM: Walcott

LM: Porritt

MC: D Rose

MC: M Johnson

CF: Vaughan (Maybe Martin can go from stregnth to stregnth)

CF: Rooney

Believe you

[Steve H 0]

I personally think a large part of the problem at the moment is players living on their reputations and managers picking them by it.

Examples

Ferdinand, had a great WC 2002, but has rarely found that form since. CB is the position where England have had the most choice over the past few years so why keep picking him automatically.

Beckham, hasn''t been the same for England since he injured his foot prior to WC in 2002. Lennon is clearly the better choice on the right wing.

Lampard, he was getting in goal scoring positions all the time during the WC and also against Germany - and missing!!! Tell you what why not stick another goal scoring midfielder in his place.

Owen & Rooney going to the WC, clearly a waste of 2 place''s, neither were fit or made an impact.

I''m not saying we should drop the above from the squad but we''ve got to start playing the form players like Lennon, Carragher etc.

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]

I suppose it''s alright apart from 2 things, where is ROONEY, by far and away the best striker we have available, and where is Joe Cole, much better than Downing.

[/quote]downings a naturally left sided player, joe cole trys to cut in to centre to often and is far to inconsistent one game he can be great and then the next he can give the ball way far to easy by trying stupid tricks that dont work, if downing was given more of a chance then hed be a good choice, plus cole aint gonna get much at chelsea this season england need match fit players,  as for rooney ashton will score more goals if fit and johnson can run defences ragged, rooney invites trouble hes got a poor temper and he gets booked far to easily as prooven when he got sent off in world cup for stamping on a player, cant blame ref for that, lennon had a fantastic world cup and bridge is a better defender then cole and we need link up play on the left no point having both left players attacking then getting caught short on counter attack as seen so often in the england side, and lets face it any decent manager would be able to get the best out of a player and mclaren cant do that with his team so in all the manager has to go, because i for one wouldnt want to see scotland, wales, roi and NI qualify without us being there which we have a good chance of not being,

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

Downing and Johnson just not good enough. Downing does not have the pace or guile to get past a defenderf. Pace, Pace, is what we need, We need people whi can carry the ball so we can hold on to the ball, cause our passing for whatever reason is just not good enough.

For Rooney''s failings he is are only player that we can truly world class.

I would play Rooney and Defoe upfront

[Chopper Harris 0]

Is Gerrard going to play on Saturday? I think someone said he might need a pain killing injection before the game.I wish someone would give me a painkilling injection before every England game!

[Hairy Canary 668]

England just don''t have enough competition for places. Not becasue we don''t have the players but because the managers haven''t got the balls to drop the big names when they are not doing the stuff.

It''s the same at every level of the game. You get the best out of a team if the squad is strong and managers are brave enough to bring in the emerging tallent. There are plenty of big names in the England team who haven''t done it for ages and yet there is no talk about them being replaced.

Ferdinand is just one of many examples and his constantly being picked, despite poor form, is the reason why Carragher doesn''t want to be considered any more. People complain that England don''t play with passion. Can you name a more whole hearted player than Carragher?

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]

I suppose it''s alright apart from 2 things, where is ROONEY, by far and away the best striker we have available, and where is Joe Cole, much better than Downing.

[/quote]

downings a naturally left sided player, joe cole trys to cut in to centre to often and is far to inconsistent one game he can be great and then the next he can give the ball way far to easy by trying stupid tricks that dont work, if downing was given more of a chance then hed be a good choice, plus cole aint gonna get much at chelsea this season england need match fit players,  as for rooney ashton will score more goals if fit and johnson can run defences ragged, rooney invites trouble hes got a poor temper and he gets booked far to easily as prooven when he got sent off in world cup for stamping on a player, cant blame ref for that, lennon had a fantastic world cup and bridge is a better defender then cole and we need link up play on the left no point having both left players attacking then getting caught short on counter attack as seen so often in the england side, and lets face it any decent manager would be able to get the best out of a player and mclaren cant do that with his team so in all the manager has to go, because i for one wouldnt want to see scotland, wales, roi and NI qualify without us being there which we have a good chance of not being,
[/quote]

Because a left sided player cutting in their right foot is a bad thing!!  Darren Huckerby are you taking notes............

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I must admit I don''t take too much notice of international football except for the big tournaments in the summer (although obviously I always want my country to win) and I also see far more championship games than premiership games. But it seems to me that the quality of the English players available for the manager can be measured by how many are playing champions league football. The group stages of the champions league is at least as good a standard than the group stages of the major international tournaments and if a comparison is made between how many of our squad play in it compared to countries like Spain I''m pretty sure the difference would be obvious.

 

 

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

the problem is that we dont have a left side good enolugh to compete at international level, the best combination in the last 5 years that has played well in my opinion was when sven played ashley cole at left back and wayne bridge at left midfield, they both could get forward and there overlap play was fantastic and when needed they could both get back and defend, pretty much like beckham and neville on the right, the problem is that for many reasons which no one will ever know is that in the past weve had plenty of decent left midfielders who have had a good left foot have not been selected cos they didnt play for the top four teams, ie gareth barry never got a chance, nor did hendrie who was a left sided player at villa and worked extremely well, plus a few years ago a manager told a certain young player who had previously played for england school boys that he would never be good enought to play for england more fool them as that player went on to be one of the best left sided players in the world of course we all know him as man us Ryan giggs, we need teams to spend a bit more time bringing in a decent left side player for england as we have decdnt enough players for the rest of the positions, oh and rooney is not the only world class player we have, gerard is certainly a equally good enough player,

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Downing and Johnson!!  LMAO

 

GK: Foster

DR: Neville

DC: Richards

DC: Terry

DL: Cole

MR: Lennon / Beckham

MC: Gerard

MC: Hargreaves

ML: Cole

FC: Rooney

FC: Owen

Manager: NOT Mcclaren

Something like that anyway

[7rew 0]

I''ll admit to having changed my international allegience from England to NI, just before we beat you - since I discovered that I desperately wanted NI to win. (my grandpa is from there so I reckon its OK to support them). I haven''t regretted it for a minute, I still have England as a pass time / for after NI go out, but I can laugh if (when) they do badly.Englands problem is 3 fold.1) Selection - automatic picking of player that play for the big 4, just because they play for the big four.  This means that English players only try to get into those four clubs.2) The "Physical" nature of english football. This is slightly coupled with the selection - english players try to be really good athletes etc and so concentrate on physicallity rather than ball skills in training more than other nationalities.  This has two effects, when england play international football which is less physical, more about skill and finess they do badly.  English players also don''t (generally) get picked up by teams in spain / italy (with one or two recent exceptions) compare this to the number of spaniards in the premiership.3) If English players go abroad before getting picked for England, its almost impossible to get picked.  Look at Hargreaves it took him years as a fixture in the champions league with munich to get picked - if it had been an English champions league side he''d have been (rightly) picked ages before.  So another reason why English players don''t go abroad.  This means that the England team don'';t have experience of different styles of football, which makes us a one-dimensional running team.Some of the comments on this thread fit this as well - drop Joe Cole for Downing?  What?  Joe Cole is the only truely decent flair midfield player England have (Gerrard has flair but his game is mostly based on extreme fitness and running). Should we drop him for another player that runs about but isn''t ever going to produce a moment of brilliance that wins a match like Cole is capable of.Drop Rooney?  again, we need his flair to win tight games.  But he does need a very good predatory goal scorer to go with him  (Owen if he gets form back) not Defoe.My england team.GK: CarsonRFB: Richards RCB: DawsonLCB: Terry (c)LFB: A.Cole RMF: LennonDMF: Hargreves AMF: GerrardLMF: J. ColeSS: RooneyCF: Owen (Bent - distinctly not Defoe)

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="7rew"]I''ll admit to having changed my international allegience from England to NI, just before we beat you - since I discovered that I desperately wanted NI to win. (my grandpa is from there so I reckon its OK to support them). I haven''t regretted it for a minute, I still have England as a pass time / for after NI go out, but I can laugh if (when) they do badly.

Englands problem is 3 fold.

1) Selection - automatic picking of player that play for the big 4, just because they play for the big four.  This means that English players only try to get into those four clubs.

2) The "Physical" nature of english football. This is slightly coupled with the selection - english players try to be really good athletes etc and so concentrate on physicallity rather than ball skills in training more than other nationalities.  This has two effects, when england play international football which is less physical, more about skill and finess they do badly.  English players also don''t (generally) get picked up by teams in spain / italy (with one or two recent exceptions) compare this to the number of spaniards in the premiership.

3) If English players go abroad before getting picked for England, its almost impossible to get picked.  Look at Hargreaves it took him years as a fixture in the champions league with munich to get picked - if it had been an English champions league side he''d have been (rightly) picked ages before.  So another reason why English players don''t go abroad.  This means that the England team don'';t have experience of different styles of football, which makes us a one-dimensional running team.

Some of the comments on this thread fit this as well - drop Joe Cole for Downing?  What?  Joe Cole is the only truely decent flair midfield player England have (Gerrard has flair but his game is mostly based on extreme fitness and running). Should we drop him for another player that runs about but isn''t ever going to produce a moment of brilliance that wins a match like Cole is capable of.

Drop Rooney?  again, we need his flair to win tight games.  But he does need a very good predatory goal scorer to go with him  (Owen if he gets form back) not Defoe.

My england team.

GK: Carson
RFB: Richards
RCB: Dawson
LCB: Terry (c)
LFB: A.Cole
RMF: Lennon
DMF: Hargreves
AMF: Gerrard
LMF: J. Cole
SS: Rooney
CF: Owen (Bent - distinctly not Defoe)
[/quote]

 

I like this team, except in our desperate time we need someone mentally strong, i.e. david beckham, say what you like about him, he sets up almost all of our goals and can prove a key driving force in the team. Can''t be phased out just yet i''m afraid. Maybe (if we get there) after Euro 2008, we can try something else. Whilst rooney''s not fit, there''s space for him to play anyway, as either Gerrard or Lampard can go where you''ve put rooney. Cole will have to remain on the left however, as there really is noone else at the moment.

My team

GK: Umm.. Green if he had more experience, but James for now

RB: Neville with Richards coming in

LB: Cole with Bridge maybe for more defensive needs

CB: Terry and Ferdinand, Taylor waiting in the wings

RM: Beckham for now, we need him, with Wright Phillips and Lennon waiting to come of age

LM: Joe Cole, Barry in as back-up

CM: Hargreaves and Gerrard, Maybe lampard if gerrard unfit/ Elsewhere on the pitch also Carrick in the fold somewhere

ST: Rooney a must when fit, with owen also 1st choice, Crouch or Ashton there if more ariel threat needed (maybe when chasing a game with beckham in the team or in a slower tempo match. Also, put either Johnson, Bent or Defoe in for some pace, so Owen Rooney, 1 of Ashton/Crouch, 1 of Johnson/Bent/Defoe(when playing regulary)

 

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

For me the biggest problem we have is that all of our players play in the premier league.  With the exception of maybe Italy nearly all of the successful footballing nations have players plying there trade in different leagues all over the world.  Brazilian nation squad members for example are dotted all over europe.

This I think allows the players to adapt to a particular style, or understand how there opponents are going to play. 

England try to do this, we try to play a slow continental style game that simply doesn''t work.  The main point when you discuss the premier league is the pace of the game.  It is difficult for foreign players to settle here and get used to the pace/physical nature of the game. 

IMO we need to assemble an 11 that epitomise the very nature of our style and then ram our unique style of football down the throats of our opponents, almost literally.  We need to force opponents to play our style of football then we can impose ourselves on games.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

For me the biggest problem we have is that all of our players play in the premier league.  With the exception of maybe Italy nearly all of the successful footballing nations have players plying there trade in different leagues all over the world.  Brazilian nation squad members for example are dotted all over europe.

This I think allows the players to adapt to a particular style, or understand how there opponents are going to play. 

England try to do this, we try to play a slow continental style game that simply doesn''t work.  The main point when you discuss the premier league is the pace of the game.  It is difficult for foreign players to settle here and get used to the pace/physical nature of the game. 

IMO we need to assemble an 11 that epitomise the very nature of our style and then ram our unique style of football down the throats of our opponents, almost literally.  We need to force opponents to play our style of football then we can impose ourselves on games.

[/quote]

I agree with this Jimmy500 but I think it has to do with the Champions League. If you look at Spains squad for example you will probably find it''s full of players who play all over Europe for clubs that are in the Champions League. Because our players stay in the Premiership, unless they play for the ''big four'' they don''t get the Champions League experience which is similar to international football.

Question is do our players stay in this country because they would rather play in the Premiership for clubs outside the Champions League or is it because they are not wanted by clubs in other countries.

I agree with you that as things stand we shouldn''t try to make our players change their style and should ram our unique style of football down the throats of our opponents until or unless we have a squad of players with the right experience to play a more continental type game.

 

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]

I suppose it''s alright apart from 2 things, where is ROONEY, by far and away the best striker we have available, and where is Joe Cole, much better than Downing.

[/quote]

downings a naturally left sided player, joe cole trys to cut in to centre to often and is far to inconsistent one game he can be great and then the next he can give the ball way far to easy by trying stupid tricks that dont work, if downing was given more of a chance then hed be a good choice, plus cole aint gonna get much at chelsea this season england need match fit players,  as for rooney ashton will score more goals if fit and johnson can run defences ragged, rooney invites trouble hes got a poor temper and he gets booked far to easily as prooven when he got sent off in world cup for stamping on a player, cant blame ref for that, lennon had a fantastic world cup and bridge is a better defender then cole and we need link up play on the left no point having both left players attacking then getting caught short on counter attack as seen so often in the england side, and lets face it any decent manager would be able to get the best out of a player and mclaren cant do that with his team so in all the manager has to go, because i for one wouldnt want to see scotland, wales, roi and NI qualify without us being there which we have a good chance of not being,
[/quote]

Well I think Lawrenson highlighted it quite nicely during the Germany game...what Joe Cole does really well is he commits players. He''s so much more of a worry for the opposition than Downing. Also I can''t see the inconsistent bit about Cole...he tends to be one of the players who regularly performs for England.

As for Rooney...well he''s a brilliant player so clearly should be involved with England. So he got sent off at the World Cup, I seem to remember that Zidane did as well and who wouldn''t want him in their team??

Dean Ashton will probably prove to be a good player to have in the England ranks. Unconvinced about AJ, can be a bit one dimensional. Works hard though.

Don''t consider Bridge to be a better defender than Cole, I don''t think Cole has shown his best form in recent times but he has shown that he can be terrific for England.

[Indy_Bones 441]

You want an interesting ''new look'' England team...

                                 Cudicini

Otsemobor      Ferdinand      Terry         M.Taylor

                                 M.Richards

A.Young                                                Hucks

                                 Gerrard

                        Lita               Rooney

Squad Subs:

Green + Carson

Dawson + S.Taylor

Bridge + L.Young

Hargreaves + Osman + Lennon + J.Cole

Agbonlahor + A.Johnson + Crouch

Pace on the wings, stability at the back, full backs who like to get forward, Gerrard in his favoured position.

Massively radical, and clearly would never happen under normal England management, but certainly different...

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

rooney is no way in the same league as zidane was, point i was trying to get was i feel that joe cole wont be as match sharpe as other players if he gets a crap amount of games, think several people have commented on how cole also backs himself into a corner far to often and doesnt pass the ball when he should no point in commiting a player if all ure gonna do is lose the ball, yeah joe cole is a great player but we need to experiment a bit more and rely upon changing the formation and method of play and to be honest the last few england games have been shite and the left side has looked extremely week even with joe cole playing there

[Mook 0]

Blaming the foreigners! Typical. Right - here''s my reasons that England aren''t good enough:

There''s too many young english players happy in the reserves, earning their 10k a week, going to selfridges and dressing up like extras from Hollyoaks. If they were good enough, they''d play. Right?

PLUS the only other team with as many foreigners as England in their domestic league is ........... Germany. And they''re not doing too badly, are they?

PLUS one World Cup Semi Final in 41 years is hardly world beating form is it?? We''ve never actually got close to winning anything, regardless of foreigners, if we''re honest.

PLUS this pathetic desire for "100 miles per hour" football. What about touch, control, passing, possession, intelligence, speed of thought?????

PLUS our footballers have no bottle. How can professional footballers miss so many penalties??

Go on, tell me I''m wrong.

[Cobain18 0]

England are not good enough because there aren''t enough talented English players, reducing the talent in the premier league by limiting the amount of foreigners is not the answer

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

Blaming the foreigners! Typical. Right - here''s my reasons that England aren''t good enough:

There''s too many young english players happy in the reserves, earning their 10k a week, going to selfridges and dressing up like extras from Hollyoaks. If they were good enough, they''d play. Right?

PLUS the only other team with as many foreigners as England in their domestic league is ........... Germany. And they''re not doing too badly, are they?

PLUS one World Cup Semi Final in 41 years is hardly world beating form is it?? We''ve never actually got close to winning anything, regardless of foreigners, if we''re honest.

PLUS this pathetic desire for "100 miles per hour" football. What about touch, control, passing, possession, intelligence, speed of thought?????

PLUS our footballers have no bottle. How can professional footballers miss so many penalties??

Go on, tell me I''m wrong.

[/quote]

OK, you are wrong.

The Germans do well because they play their unique game.  The German ethic is organisation and teamwork.  No one German sets the game alight, they are a complete solid unit whi operate as a complete unit, this is why they are so hard to break down, this is why they consistently do well.

Also, German footballers ply their trade all over europe, that was the essence of the point.

Also, our pathetic desire for 100mph football.  It is our only unique trait, the only thing we have that is different, we have no other aces up our sleeve.  We don''t posess the flair of a spain or a portugal, we can''t play dutch style total football, we lack the organisation of a germany or a italy.  This is why we have to play pathetic 100mph physical, fast football.  It is what we do well and the reason the premier league is the best in world.  Its the age old pun, play to your strengths, not your weaknesses.  Our strength is fast football, our weakness is a continetal style game. 

Also at this level skill, passing, control and intelligence will come as a standard, it is how we choose to harness these abilities that will set us apart.

Finally, missing penalties?.......this is a mystery to me too, surely players at this level should hit the onion bag every time.....

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationalshers who i think are our world class playersgerardhargreavesrooney ( although i dont like the player)thats it

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationals

hers who i think are our world class players

gerard
hargreaves
rooney ( although i dont like the player)

thats it
[/quote]

Nah, that''s not the case. Strength and depth of player quality we''re as good as anyone out there. Certainly we''ve got better footballers than Argentina, although Argentina are probably a better team.

Don''t like to get into naming World Class players because it usually just means people will name the full Brazil and Argentina squads.