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BigFish

Loyal Supporters?

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]
There does seem to be a small element of the support that believes that it''s bigger / more important than the club, "doing it for the good of the club", etc.  It''s what happens when you create clubs within clubs, hidden agendas arise.  I tried to warn against it at the time, it was the one thing I was most concerned about during the whole sorry episode.  An ingrained culture of protest is an unhealthy thing in a support base, it can only be detrimental to the players, most of whom weren''t here, and think they''ve joined a team with a loyal following, which of course to a large extent we have.  It does make you wonder what these "supporters" pay their money for.
[/quote]

This quote was on another thread but it probably warrants a thread of its own. There does seem to an element that is anti almost anything the board does that should clear off and support Man U or Chelsea because NCFC will never be able to satisfy them and it is just making them unhappy [:''(].

Me, I think we just may be on our way and at the least 2007/8 is going to be an interesting ride.

OTBC

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Oh i get it. We should all have realised by now that anyone who is in charge of a football club is always 100% in it for the right reasons and we unimportant little mites should just stop asking difficult questions and let our "superiors" do whatever they like. Brainwashed drivel.

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[quote user="BigFish"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]
There does seem to be a small element of the support that believes that it''s bigger / more important than the club, "doing it for the good of the club", etc.  It''s what happens when you create clubs within clubs, hidden agendas arise.  I tried to warn against it at the time, it was the one thing I was most concerned about during the whole sorry episode.  An ingrained culture of protest is an unhealthy thing in a support base, it can only be detrimental to the players, most of whom weren''t here, and think they''ve joined a team with a loyal following, which of course to a large extent we have.  It does make you wonder what these "supporters" pay their money for.
[/quote]

This quote was on another thread but it probably warrants a thread of its own. There does seem to an element that is anti almost anything the board does that should clear off and support Man U or Chelsea because NCFC will never be able to satisfy them and it is just making them unhappy [:''(].

Me, I think we just may be on our way and at the least 2007/8 is going to be an interesting ride.

OTBC

[/quote]

The badge is what i follow mate and that badge is bigger than any player,manager or board room staff because its our badge. If i dont feel someboby is doing the utmost best for the club/badge i have and always will say my bit.

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No, it is not ''anyone''. This directly relates to our club.If you''ve any allegations to make then speak out and stop hiding behind smears and innuendo.As to difficult questions, if your questions are anything like the contradictory old tosh you put up on another thread then the only difficult thing about them is trying to find a valid point.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Oh i get it. We should all have realised by now that anyone who is in charge of a football club is always 100% in it for the right reasons and we unimportant little mites should just stop asking difficult questions and let our "superiors" do whatever they like. Brainwashed drivel.[/quote]

I don''t think that that''s quite the point being made.  I for one like some of the stuff the Board have done and not some other stuff - oh, is that the fence I feel chaffing my thong?!!! - what I think the point is is that there is an element on this Board who would find fault in any decision the Board make (however good it may turn out to be in the long run).  I personally think constant negativity along with blind acceptance are both doing no favours but reasoned debate and praise/criticism have a justified place on here.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="BigFish"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]
There does seem to be a small element of the support that believes that it''s bigger / more important than the club, "doing it for the good of the club", etc.  It''s what happens when you create clubs within clubs, hidden agendas arise.  I tried to warn against it at the time, it was the one thing I was most concerned about during the whole sorry episode.  An ingrained culture of protest is an unhealthy thing in a support base, it can only be detrimental to the players, most of whom weren''t here, and think they''ve joined a team with a loyal following, which of course to a large extent we have.  It does make you wonder what these "supporters" pay their money for.
[/quote]

This quote was on another thread but it probably warrants a thread of its own. There does seem to an element that is anti almost anything the board does that should clear off and support Man U or Chelsea because NCFC will never be able to satisfy them and it is just making them unhappy [:''(].

Me, I think we just may be on our way and at the least 2007/8 is going to be an interesting ride.

OTBC

[/quote]

The badge is what i follow mate and that badge is bigger than any player,manager or board room staff because its our badge. If i dont feel someboby is doing the utmost best for the club/badge i have and always will say my bit.

[/quote]

Fair dos to Arthur, I know you do. And this is the case with all or most the old timers but the question remains whether there is a culture that has developed among the supporters that is very different from traditional supporters.

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[quote user="Mr Carrow"]Oh i get it. We should all have realised by now that anyone who is in

charge of a football club is always 100% in it for the right reasons

and we unimportant little mites should just stop asking difficult

questions and let our "superiors" do whatever they like. Brainwashed

drivel.[/quote]Do you believe that booing the players off at half-time of the first home game of the season is healthy and constructive ?   Do you believe that booing the players off at half-time of the first home game of the season poses a difficult question of anyone ?  That is the context in which post 1 came from.If there is a photo of me next to the word gullible in the dictionary, surely there must be one of you next to the word petulant. [:)]

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mr Carrow"]Oh i get it. We should all have realised by now that anyone who is in charge of a football club is always 100% in it for the right reasons and we unimportant little mites should just stop asking difficult questions and let our "superiors" do whatever they like. Brainwashed drivel.[/quote]

Do you believe that booing the players off at half-time of the first home game of the season is healthy and constructive ?   Do you believe that booing the players off at half-time of the first home game of the season poses a difficult question of anyone ?  That is the context in which post 1 came from.

If there is a photo of me next to the word gullible in the dictionary, surely there must be one of you next to the word petulant. [:)]
[/quote]If anyone sitting next to me booed i would have said something,i imagine alot of fans would also do the same.i suggest the booing is coming from simpletons all sitting together who have had to much to drink and aren''t what you would call real fans

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Constant negativity undermines itself in the end, those who peddle it find themselves marginalised and ultimately unheard.

An example might be some possible reactions to the Ian Murray signing.

Positive view:

PG has seen that we lack strength in depth at the back and has moved to reinforce so as to have more cover and options. Doc struggles at times, Shacks isn''t quite the messiah we hoped for and DD is older than Gandalf so this could be the solution.

Negative view:

Its another blooming jock who couldn''t get a place in what would only be a mid rank premiership side. The Board have shown spineless penny pinching mediocrity is what they crave by seemingly not sanctioning an audacious move for John Terry.

I don''t think anyone has ever argued that we can''t be negative. Its just that when it becomes a dogmatic mantra and is accompanied by one line generalisations or put downs it is utterless pointless. I''m happy to be negative (if that makes sense) as I know that nothing is ever perfect, but I will also try to look at things objectively and give reasons for any views I might express.

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[quote user="Tumbleweed"]

Constant negativity undermines itself in the end, those who peddle it find themselves marginalised and ultimately unheard.

An example might be some possible reactions to the Ian Murray signing.

Positive view:

PG has seen that we lack strength in depth at the back and has moved to reinforce so as to have more cover and options. Doc struggles at times, Shacks isn''t quite the messiah we hoped for and DD is older than Gandalf so this could be the solution.

Negative view:

Its another blooming jock who couldn''t get a place in what would only be a mid rank premiership side. The Board have shown spineless penny pinching mediocrity is what they crave by seemingly not sanctioning an audacious move for John Terry.

I don''t think anyone has ever argued that we can''t be negative. Its just that when it becomes a dogmatic mantra and is accompanied by one line generalisations or put downs it is utterless pointless. I''m happy to be negative (if that makes sense) as I know that nothing is ever perfect, but I will also try to look at things objectively and give reasons for any views I might express.

[/quote]

Put very well, it is a mood thing tumbleweed and it is not just noticed here....

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/Sport/RichardBalls/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=RichardBalls&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=RichardBalls&itemid=NOED23%20Aug%202007%2009%3A49%3A08%3A490

Now wheres Smudger when you need him?! [;)][:D][:P]

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[quote user="Ralph Wright"]No, it is not ''anyone''. This directly relates to our club.

If you''ve any allegations to make then speak out and stop hiding behind smears and innuendo.

As to difficult questions, if your questions are anything like the contradictory old tosh you put up on another thread then the only difficult thing about them is trying to find a valid point.
[/quote]

I assume this is aimed at me? I have no allegations whatsoever. I simply believe that the board have taken entirely the wrong approach in recent years in pumping most of the Prem/Ashton/Francis/Green money into infrastructure rather than the team. If you look at the facts you`ll find they back me up, but then maybe thats why you ignore them? But please do point out where ive got it so wrong as you seem to be taking this very personally for some reason......

Yes, i do agree with some of the points made regarding constant negativity, but i think you can count those who take everything as a negative who regularly post on here on one hand. As i have said i feel the board have got it totally wrong since relegation, but this last few months have seen a change for the better and this is more down to those who have been putting pressure on the board to put the team first, than the "look at our lovely stand, shame about the football" brigade. This small-minded acceptance of mediocrity which predominates in City supporters is the main reason why NCFC will probably always underachieve as a club- at the end of the day, we don`t want success enough and some people are probably a little bit scared of it.

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[quote]As i have said i feel the board have got it totally wrong since relegation, but this last few months have seen a change for the better and this is more down to those who have been putting pressure on the board to put the team first, than the "look at our lovely stand, shame about the football" brigade.[/quote]

Blimey most of us on here just settle for having an opinion, you seem to believe you''re actually "saving the club" !  All in a days work for a no-so mild mannered janitor, I''m sure...

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="Ralph Wright"]No, it is not ''anyone''. This directly relates to our club.

If you''ve any allegations to make then speak out and stop hiding behind smears and innuendo.

As to difficult questions, if your questions are anything like the contradictory old tosh you put up on another thread then the only difficult thing about them is trying to find a valid point.
[/quote]

I assume this is aimed at me? I have no allegations whatsoever. I simply believe that the board have taken entirely the wrong approach in recent years in pumping most of the Prem/Ashton/Francis/Green money into infrastructure rather than the team. If you look at the facts you`ll find they back me up, but then maybe thats why you ignore them? But please do point out where ive got it so wrong as you seem to be taking this very personally for some reason......

Yes, i do agree with some of the points made regarding constant negativity, but i think you can count those who take everything as a negative who regularly post on here on one hand. As i have said i feel the board have got it totally wrong since relegation, but this last few months have seen a change for the better and this is more down to those who have been putting pressure on the board to put the team first, than the "look at our lovely stand, shame about the football" brigade. This small-minded acceptance of mediocrity which predominates in City supporters is the main reason why NCFC will probably always underachieve as a club- at the end of the day, we don`t want success enough and some people are probably a little bit scared of it.

[/quote]

Great post Mr Carrow. Reading Doncaster''s column in the EDP today you can see why we have continued down the road of mediocrity, the main point being if the club has any real ambition "on the pitch" it will ultimately end in disaster, overtaking Leeds to hell and damnation. There must be a middle road where FOOTBALL and boards quest for a Carrow Rd leisure village can live together. Up till now FOOTBALL has suffered badly, its now time to have a more equal approach.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]As i have said i feel the board have got it totally wrong since relegation, but this last few months have seen a change for the better and this is more down to those who have been putting pressure on the board to put the team first, than the "look at our lovely stand, shame about the football" brigade.[/quote]

Blimey most of us on here just settle for having an opinion, you seem to believe you''re actually "saving the club" !  All in a days work for a no-so mild mannered janitor, I''m sure...

[/quote]

"Saving the club"?  Those of us who called for Delia & Co to bring new investment into the club and new blood into the boardroom were simply stating the bleeding obvious, not indulging a messiah complex.  Maybe it was one of the factors that led to the arrival of the Turners, or maybe it wasn''t.  Unfortunately our board have shown time and time again that they are lacking in drive and focus, and therefore it is regrettably necessary to give them a regular kick up the backside to avoid a repeat of the aimless drifting of the past.

 

 

 

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[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]As i have said i feel the board have got it totally wrong since relegation, but this last few months have seen a change for the better and this is more down to those who have been putting pressure on the board to put the team first, than the "look at our lovely stand, shame about the football" brigade.[/quote]

Blimey most of us on here just settle for having an opinion, you seem to believe you''re actually "saving the club" !  All in a days work for a no-so mild mannered janitor, I''m sure...

[/quote]

"Saving the club"?  Those of us who called for Delia & Co to bring new investment into the club and new blood into the boardroom were simply stating the bleeding obvious, not indulging a messiah complex.  Maybe it was one of the factors that led to the arrival of the Turners, or maybe it wasn''t.  Unfortunately our board have shown time and time again that they are lacking in drive and focus, and therefore it is regrettably necessary to give them a regular kick up the backside to avoid a repeat of the aimless drifting of the past.

[/quote]

There is some truth and sense in this, as the board have lost their way at times especially since we came down, you could argue it happened while we were in the prem.

However I personally believe that this is a season where that needs to be put firmly to the back of our minds so everyone is fully behind the team and not expecting/hoping/looking for failure.

What ever has gone before has gone, what ever cash was wasted has gone, and we now face probably a couple of seasons rebuilding the slow and cheap way as the prem money has gone (been wasted). A massive change at board level now would only prolong this, unless of course we found someone of the Abromovich ilk (or championship version) which may happen, but is unlikely.

For me the focus of the board seems to be correct again, but only time will tell. Improvement is the name of the game this time around, with some careful stock taking at the end of the season.

I doubt we''ll go up this year, but I feel we will move forward and that''s what we need to see.

If we don''t move forward, you''ll find me agreeing with you more often Mystic.

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[quote user="MM"]Unfortunately our board have shown time and time again that they are

lacking in drive and focus, and therefore it is regrettably necessary

to give them a regular kick up the backside to avoid a repeat of the

aimless drifting of the past.[/quote]So, coming back to BigFish''s / my original point, do you feel that booing the team off at half-time in the first game of the season is a regrettably neccesary kick-up-the-backside, or just moaning for moanings'' sake ?I am not questioning your commitment to the club, nor Mr Carrows'' for that matter, I don''t understand why anyone would choose to boo the team from the first home game of the new season though.  Maybe you can explain that one to me as you seem to be choosing that side of the fence to sit on in this thread [:)]As an aside, do you believe that the current board wouldn''t have brought the Turners in if there hadn''t been pleas for investment from people on message boards ?

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Thanks Megson, your words are spot on and saved me trying to find them, I concur.

BTW Blah, I think you''ll find ''gullible'' no longer exists in the OED as it has been removed as part of their periodic usage census.

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[quote]BTW Blah, I think you''ll find ''gullible'' no longer exists in the OED as

it has been removed as part of their periodic usage census.[/quote]I believe everything you say Mr F.  [;)]

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="MM"]Unfortunately our board have shown time and time again that they are lacking in drive and focus, and therefore it is regrettably necessary to give them a regular kick up the backside to avoid a repeat of the aimless drifting of the past.[/quote]

So, coming back to BigFish''s / my original point, do you feel that booing the team off at half-time in the first game of the season is a regrettably neccesary kick-up-the-backside, or just moaning for moanings'' sake ?

I am not questioning your commitment to the club, nor Mr Carrows'' for that matter, I don''t understand why anyone would choose to boo the team from the first home game of the new season though.  Maybe you can explain that one to me as you seem to be choosing that side of the fence to sit on in this thread [:)]

As an aside, do you believe that the current board wouldn''t have brought the Turners in if there hadn''t been pleas for investment from people on message boards ?
[/quote]

I wasn''t at the game blah but I can''t understand it any more than you can.  If people think the board need a kick up the rear, they should direct their displeasure at the directors box instead of booing the team. 

Do I believe that the board wouldn''t have brought the Turners in if it wasn''t for forums like this?  The idea that the board were so lacking in initiative or resistant to change that it had to come from the fans is far too depressing to contemplate, so I''d prefer to think that we were "simply stating the bleeding obvious". 

 

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