Sorry Doc its not good enuf

[CJ 0]

Well the Barnet match was definitely a game of two halves but overall it proved we have what it takes in all bar one department to finish in the top half of the league. Yes it was only Barnet but a sign of a good club is when they deal with these fixtures in such a postive manner.

The attack was superb in the first half and Brown and Cureton were ace and looked dangerous every time we attacked. Certainly in Ostemobor we have a quality attacking right back who will always be a threat. The midfield were solid if not totally dominant and Russell was great as always.

The defence is where the real problems are and even early on in the first half there were plenty of warnings. I am sorry but Doc really isnt going to be good enuf. He is fairly good in the air but really gets toasted by anyone who keeps the ball on the ground and has a bit of pace and other teams like Barnet will suss that. And the real problem is we have no cover at all. Look at the Barnet match, effectively we had no defenders on the bench, yes there is Dublin and to be honest I would prefer to play him instead of Doc.

The second half proved how vunerable and weak our defence is with basic errors like marking not being carried out. I was impressed by the Barnet fans but less impressed by the players who basically tried to bully a weak referee by following him round the pitch complaining continually. The tackle on Drury was appalling and deserved worse punishment than a yellow card, I hope Drury is OK

I know others will say the transfer window isnt closed and what about loans, but lets be realistic as Grant says the games come thick and fast now and we need a solid back four with good cover and we are nowhere near that. So I would have said yes to Shawcross since all reports suggest he is a class act, I am sure even Furgie would understand dropping him if he really didnt make it. But that offer has gone so we need preferably a decent centre back asap and I really cant believe that if we made the right offer we could not prise one from somewhere. Davenport would be good but I would prefer to see a transfer not a loan.

I hope I am wrong but I think this team will fail and fail badly if Mr Grant does not get one or two defenders asap

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="CJ"]

Well the Barnet match was definitely a game of two halves but overall it proved we have what it takes in all bar one department to finish in the top half of the league. Yes it was only Barnet but a sign of a good club is when they deal with these fixtures in such a postive manner.

The attack was superb in the first half and Brown and Cureton were ace and looked dangerous every time we attacked. Certainly in Ostemobor we have a quality attacking right back who will always be a threat. The midfield were solid if not totally dominant and Russell was great as always.

The defence is where the real problems are and even early on in the first half there were plenty of warnings. I am sorry but Doc really isnt going to be good enuf. He is fairly good in the air but really gets toasted by anyone who keeps the ball on the ground and has a bit of pace and other teams like Barnet will suss that. And the real problem is we have no cover at all. Look at the Barnet match, effectively we had no defenders on the bench, yes there is Dublin and to be honest I would prefer to play him instead of Doc.

The second half proved how vunerable and weak our defence is with basic errors like marking not being carried out. I was impressed by the Barnet fans but less impressed by the players who basically tried to bully a weak referee by following him round the pitch complaining continually. The tackle on Drury was appalling and deserved worse punishment than a yellow card, I hope Drury is OK

I know others will say the transfer window isnt closed and what about loans, but lets be realistic as Grant says the games come thick and fast now and we need a solid back four with good cover and we are nowhere near that. So I would have said yes to Shawcross since all reports suggest he is a class act, I am sure even Furgie would understand dropping him if he really didnt make it. But that offer has gone so we need preferably a decent centre back asap and I really cant believe that if we made the right offer we could not prise one from somewhere. Davenport would be good but I would prefer to see a transfer not a loan.

I hope I am wrong but I think this team will fail and fail badly if Mr Grant does not get one or two defenders asap

[/quote]

 

i kinda agree about that, but u have to realise, being 5-0 up after 30 mins, inevitably got us to step down a few gears, which i''m happy 4 us to do, so the players can save themselves for saturday. The 1st 30 mins showed what we can do, and goes some way to say we have to quality to make something of ourselves in the c''ship this season.. I do, however agree, that we could probably do with someone new in at centre back, even if the doc is good enough. After him, there''s Dion, who is normally a striker, but as for if shacks gets injured, there''s noone to cover any pacy forwards in this division, as the doc and dion will be murdered against the likes of ebanks blake and wright-phillips. Despite davenport not being known for his pace, i believe he would prove perfect foil for this kind of threat, as would the slightly more inconsistent, yet less pacy sodje. Shawcross would have been nice, but there''s better out there available, easily. I just wonder what Jonny Evans is doing this year.

I read we''re interested in O''Dea, who sounds like what we need, but u don''t know if he will do better than the doc. Although, even if he doesn''t get in ahead, at least we have back-up if the doc or shacks (or drury for that matter) gets injured. If we can find a cross betweena new malky and a new kenton in his prime, then there''s no excuse against us doing well this year.

On the whole, i have a little faith still in shacks and doc to do well as a pair, but it''s wearing thin, so next heavy loss, i won''t be happy, but, hey, so far so good but we could do with some cover right across the back 4!

[lobster catcher 0]

[quote user="CJ"]

Well the Barnet match was definitely a game of two halves but overall it proved we have what it takes in all bar one department to finish in the top half of the league. Yes it was only Barnet but a sign of a good club is when they deal with these fixtures in such a postive manner.

The attack was superb in the first half and Brown and Cureton were ace and looked dangerous every time we attacked. Certainly in Ostemobor we have a quality attacking right back who will always be a threat. The midfield were solid if not totally dominant and Russell was great as always.

The defence is where the real problems are and even early on in the first half there were plenty of warnings. I am sorry but Doc really isnt going to be good enuf. He is fairly good in the air but really gets toasted by anyone who keeps the ball on the ground and has a bit of pace and other teams like Barnet will suss that. And the real problem is we have no cover at all. Look at the Barnet match, effectively we had no defenders on the bench, yes there is Dublin and to be honest I would prefer to play him instead of Doc.

The second half proved how vunerable and weak our defence is with basic errors like marking not being carried out. I was impressed by the Barnet fans but less impressed by the players who basically tried to bully a weak referee by following him round the pitch complaining continually. The tackle on Drury was appalling and deserved worse punishment than a yellow card, I hope Drury is OK

I know others will say the transfer window isnt closed and what about loans, but lets be realistic as Grant says the games come thick and fast now and we need a solid back four with good cover and we are nowhere near that. So I would have said yes to Shawcross since all reports suggest he is a class act, I am sure even Furgie would understand dropping him if he really didnt make it. But that offer has gone so we need preferably a decent centre back asap and I really cant believe that if we made the right offer we could not prise one from somewhere. Davenport would be good but I would prefer to see a transfer not a loan.

I hope I am wrong but I think this team will fail and fail badly if Mr Grant does not get one or two defenders asap

[/quote]I agree with you,the only thing i would say in his defence is that people shouldn''t be getting to him one on one ,the midfield should really stop this happening,we missed brellier tonight,he sits in front of the back four and cuts things out,If you watch most championship centre backs they all seem quite dodgy one on one.I think the gulf between premiership and championship centre backs is huge.When you see the recovery pace of say rio ferdiand,mathew upson,john terry you realize how slow the likes of the doc is,its a sign of how the game has changed in the last decade,even centre backs have to be all round players not just stopping machines

[tel 0]

Spot on CJ I thought to commit to words would make me sound like an out and out moaner having watched them win 5-2. I agree they were fantastic going forward but Marshall had to make a great save in the very first minute to deny Barnet taking the lead all because the defence lacks the basics. This is no disrespect but they are a League Two side with their own terrible defence and I would have settled for any sort of win. However the way we played at the back was at times totally amateurish the warning signs are there if Grant does not get some experienced and better centre backs we will get punished big time by some of the clubs in the Championship. If Doc looked poor against Barnet what will Watford, Charlton, Sheffield United, Cardiff, West Brom all of whom possess quality strikers with pace do against him.

In the 40 years I have followed City don''t remember us having such a poor defence (except under Hamilton). I hate saying this because at times the football was superb with City looking  as if they could score at will, but the second half collapse was really bad. I know it is difficult to maintain the momentum when you go in 5-0 at halkf time but really very poor attitude and application second half.

[pitch fork 0]

unfortunatley i think you are right-he simply isnt good enough-his awareness is poor disribution terrible-he has no presence for a big lad and no leadership skills

where is the leader at the back? shacks in time could be that man,

i honestly believe if we got a leader at the back like Duncan Forbes, Mackay etc...........we have a Squad that could be in the top 6

come on grant sign a central  defender please!!!!!!!!!! 

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

Listening in last night its plainly obvious hes a liability. The only thing he has going for him is hes a big strong player, but even thats caused him/us problems (i.e pulling shirts - as per last night). Barnet should''ve had a penalty in the first half but thankfully the ref was looking the wrong way.

Otsemobor on the other hand was brilliant. Lets hope he continues what hes started.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Funny stat someone brought up on WOTB:

Believe it or not Doherty is the only specialist centre back to have been signed ( and even then he appears to have been brought in mainly as a stiker) by the club since Malky Mackay was signed by Mike Walker in 2000 (?). Our weakness at centre back has been chronic as evidenced by the goals conceded stats since promotion to the Premiereship and neither Worthie nor Grant has properly addressed this weakness .

http://www.wrathofthebarclay.co.uk/interactive/board/message.php?pid=639341

[canarychris 0]

i guess the fact that we didn''t have a defensive midfielder in the side to give some cover to the centre backs is irrelevant when there is an easy opportunity to make the Doc the scapegoat for a 5 - 2 victory!!!!

The back 4, including Doc, where excellent on Saturday with Brellier giving some protection in front, last nite no one was tracking runners from midfield meaning our back 4 was overloaded.

The second half was irrelevant, 5 - 0 up with a match on Saturday. No one wants to get injured and the match is already dead. All credit to Barnet who gave it a go throughout by the way.

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="canarychris"]

i guess the fact that we didn''t have a defensive midfielder in the side to give some cover to the centre backs is irrelevant when there is an easy opportunity to make the Doc the scapegoat for a 5 - 2 victory!!!!

The back 4, including Doc, where excellent on Saturday with Brellier giving some protection in front, last nite no one was tracking runners from midfield meaning our back 4 was overloaded.

The second half was irrelevant, 5 - 0 up with a match on Saturday. No one wants to get injured and the match is already dead. All credit to Barnet who gave it a go throughout by the way.

[/quote]It''s still not good enough by the defence, even Grant can see that, hence the hair drier treatment. The fact we need a DM to save our Defence says it all really. The Doc as stated is good in the air (when he isn''t foulling his man) but lacks any pace or skill on the ball.

[canarychris 0]

don''t disagree that we need competition all across the backline and if someone comes in and does a better job than Doc that is fine, but at the moment imho he will be fine with Brellier in the holding role offering some protection. I see Chelski conceded 2 goals at home on Sunday for the first time in ages and Surprise Surprise Makelele didn''t play, we where a better side when Saf played in front of the back four (the stats back this up) and will be a better side when Brellier plays.

DON''T turn Doc into the next Hughes, if we buy better then great, but remember 2 seasons ago the supporters of this club voted him player of the year ahead of the likes of Hucks, he is not a bad player he is just having his every move and therefore mistake criticised by certain members of this forum.

Anyone who saw the new defensive unit in action at Preston on Saturday would have been impressed so lay off and get behind every member of the squad. I don''t particularly rate Lappin or Fozzy but i don''t start endless threads just to slate them!!! If u throw enough mud some will stick - LAY OFF THE DOC

[ricky knight 0]

Its easy to pick on the Doc but the whole defensive unit need looking at imo.

[Hardhouse44 261]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Its easy to pick on the Doc but the whole defensive unit need looking at imo.[/quote]

I agree the Doc is poor but I feel that goes for Shackell too. He has awful distribution and while I''m not adverse to row z defending when needed, it''s Shackell''s way whether he''s under pressure or not. I''m sorry but our captain is a donkey.

[Syteanric 1]

ok Drury was injured but the first goal came down his side (Yet again!) and the doc really isnt up to it! we need to replace these 2 players to give us a better shape at the back.

jas :)

[Le Juge 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Its easy to pick on the Doc but the whole defensive unit need looking at imo.[/quote]I agree. The Doc is the worst of a bad bunch Ostembor aside. However, I feel Shackell is just about capable but needs people either side of him that will help him out, which Drury and Doherty don''t, which leads me onto....

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

ok Drury was injured but the first goal came down his side (Yet again!) and the doc really isnt up to it! we need to replace these 2 players to give us a better shape at the back.

jas :)

[/quote]I couldn''t agree more.

[Green and Yellow 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

ok Drury was injured but the first goal came down his side (Yet again!) and the doc really isnt up to it! we need to replace these 2 players to give us a better shape at the back.

jas :)

[/quote]

I agree with you. Doherty is not up to the job which ever way that you look at it. Drury has the ability but, he is too light weight for the Championship. If you look at the teams recently promoted from the Championship they have all had a man mountain in defence. Not just tall but built like a heavy weight boxer. I think his name is Moore and he has been promoted with WBA and Derby last season he is an example of what I''m referring to. 

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Its easy to pick on the Doc but the whole defensive unit need looking at imo.[/quote]

 

Quite right. We love to find scapegoats on here and in the crowd. Some idiot in the Thorpe area was hurling abuse at Doc last night and then looking really pleased with himself, what a tos.er. The defensive performance from the whole team was cr.p, it`s not just the back four or one indevidual. Character assination by the crowd will only make the team weaker. Grant knows we have a problem and I am sure is trying to bring in the right players,but he also needs to look at the way we defend. Doc did have a nightmare last night but we kept a clean sheet on Saturday and he was playing then. If you want to criticise, Shaks should come in for some, and Drury and even the Saviour David Marshall who was not great. Brellier will make a difference but we must not be hoodwinked into thinking that he is the soluion to a much more widespread problem in the way we defend as a team.

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="ricky knight"]Its easy to pick on the Doc but the whole defensive unit need looking at imo.[/quote]

Very much agreed!

[CJ 0]

Thanks for the replies and I like many fans do not want to get on one players back. To be frank Shackell and Drury are not looking too great either at times either which exposes even more Docs problems. The big problem Grant has is illustrated by the Cureton substitution. Cureton got very greedy and instead of a simple pass to our new Czech lad and a confidence building goal for him Cureton tried to do it all. So what does the manger do roll on a sub for him.

He can not do that for the back four because all he has on the bench is Dublin and I know he is great in the back four but we all know he aint young and thats not where he likes to play. So Shacks and Doc kinda know they will be on for ninety come what may and I have to say that is Mr Grants fault. He has had plenty of time to get someone in and I am afraid if we start to lose badly both the team and the fans will find it difficult to recover. I hate to say this but Shawcross or someone of his ilk should have been signed up by now and it is a big big mistake not to have done something by now and one I hope does not eventually lead to another poor season. Because if it does I am sure as this message board has indicated the fans with good reason will turn on the manager for this obvious weakness not having been addressed as a priority!

And before anyone points to the Preston result remember they just got beat by Morecombe at home! The home game against a struggling Southampton side will be interesting and will test our defence somewhat more thoroughly than the previous two!