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Will the Jarvis brothers ever make the grade for City?

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I suppose a more pertinent point would be to ask if they will ever be given a decent chance to prove what they are capable of. I would think both boys'' patience is wearing a bit thin by now and it can''t be too long before they start thinking about moving on. Personally, I think they might not be quite good enough for Championship football, but to be fair to them, they haven''t really played enough games to prove this one way or the other. Of the other youngsters, I would love to see Cave Brown given the opportunity at right back, but that might not happen now that Otsemobor has joined the club. Maybe Halliday or Spillane should be given first team run outs this season. What do you all think? Are there any of the youngsters you feel should already be getting established in the 1st team?

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I think Ryan is good enough he just doesn''t work hard enough - he''s proved on a number of occassions that he knows where the goal is, but it appeared after making his early break into the first team he took his foot off the peddle.   He will probably move on and I think that''s best for his career.

Rossi is by far the better player out of the 2 brothers - and he is still young and has plenty of time, I don''t think he can start looking elsewhere yet.  He could well have the opportunity in defence this season where we are thin on the ground - and I think given that opportunity he will grasp it with both hands.

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i think both can , but ryan needs to work really extra hard to just get the chance, but he looked ok when he came on agaisnt vitesse

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Grant seems to have no problem getting rid of players he doesn''t have plans for, so that is a good sign for the both of them.

It is certain we will get injuries, and the Jarvis brothers will definitely get a few chances this season. I just hope for their sakes it is in their preferred positions...although it is just as likely they will get to play right wing.

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Having seen Rossi Jarvis several times, I honestly believe he is the most rounded, capable youngster we have - and that includes Martin.

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[quote user="Stella Canary"]

I think Ryan is good enough he just doesn''t work hard enough - he''s proved on a number of occassions that he knows where the goal is, but it appeared after making his early break into the first team he took his foot off the peddle.   He will probably move on and I think that''s best for his career.

[/quote]

Have I missed something? I''m just curious as to when these "number of occasions" were? Would that be the 5 or 6 goals Ryan has scored in over 4 years?

People can bemoan a lack of opportunities for the lad, but the fact is he has had opportunities, whilst limited, has not taken them.

A game against a side like Dereham Town being a case in point!

Lets face it, he was bigged up as the next best thing, "a very special talent", the pressure was far too much and he was chucked into a situation when (at the time) we were desperate for a few wins to get into the playoffs. He was introduced far too early and if he had been played regulary from that point, then no doubt we would have seen that "talent". He''s not going to make it here and it would be best for all parties if he moved on.

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Where''s rossi''s best position?, i thought he was a versitile defender til i heard he was a midfeilder, opposite to what i thought of spillane.

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[quote user="alex_ncfc"]

People can bemoan a lack of opportunities for the lad, but the fact is he has had opportunities, whilst limited, has not taken them.

[/quote]

Yep - there have been occasions when he''s had a sub appearance and looked quite lively, but then he starts the next week and is completely anonymous. Did Leyton Orient want him permanently, they''re more than welcome to him.

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Sorry, but I just don''t agree.At no point has Ryan Jarvis been given the chance to make a major impact. Just taking last season, he was given a total of 8 games to show his abilities in, of which 4 were sub appearance - 0 mins against Southend (90th min sub), 2 mins against Palace, 25 mins against Plymouth, 24 mins against Leicester, leaving only 4 games where he has started. Out of these 4 games, 3 were cup matches where we put pretty crappy sides out for 2 of them, leaving realistically only 2 league games where he could show his ability, and 1 of which he was subbed after 59 mins.Maybe it was the season before that, where he got given the fantastic opportunity of 5 games, 2 of which were 6 months later than the last.No, hang on, it was the season before that, where he again was given 5 games, and despite being obviously crap, scored a cracker for us against Liverpool.Factor in the horrible injury problems of the 05/06 season, and surely you can see why I disagree about his opportunities?At no time has he had an extended run to get used to the team and the overall game which is so different to reserve team football. Some players can perform in this way, look at Soljskaer, but the vast majority need to get settled, and get used to how the team is playing. FFS,  Theirry Henry managed a pathetic 2 goals in 17 games when first arriving at Arsenal, but Wenger kept with him and the rest is history. When has Jarvis ever been shown this level of faith or commitment???Don''t get me wrong, I''m not saying he''s an outstanding player or the next Henry etc, but I think it''s pretty poor to be slating the guy when he''s not been given the true opportunity to perform. Maybe he''s crap in training, maybe he has an attitude problem, maybe he simply isn''t that good - although I''d have thought he''d be long gone by now if that truly was the case, as part of Grant''s, summer car boot. The fact is that until he is given a genuine run of 10-12 games together at this level, It''s massively unfair to judge his ability.Being fair, he''s still only 21, and just because the likes of Rooney, Owen etc, were bursting onto the scene at 17-18 doesn''t mean that if you don''t, you''re not a good player. Grant sent him on loan to get some first team football at Leyton Orient, they felt he was too good for them, and would be too expensive, so now he''s back here to try to prove a point, or at least get another decent loan spell.4 months ago Chris Brown was being slated, and now slowly many fans are warming to him, particularly based on his recent efforts in the friendlies, so if Brown can be given a chance, why can''t Jarvo? Take my word for it, the lad is a far better player than many realise, and if we had a couple of injuries upfront, I''d be more than happy to give him the chance he so clearly wants.Or you could just keep slating him unfairly - your choice...

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Ryan is mates with a pal of mine & he was telling me Ryan was set to go to Falkirk on loan (which is why he didnt go to Holland) but then they signed Roman Wallner & the deal fell through. He is very fed up at the mo & just wants to play games, he is more than happy to drop divisions to get them (unlike Hendo who apparantly thinks he should be in the Prem!!) He knows he''s not in PG''s plans & is resigned to exiting when his contract is up at the end of the season.

CRS

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I think we should let both of these lads move on as I dont see them getting many games this season yet again.

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[quote user="cityangel"]I think we should let both of these lads move on as I dont see them getting many games this season yet again.[/quote]

Exactly, if they were good enough they would be in the team. Simple as.

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Re: Will the Jarvis brothers ever make the grade for City?

Maybe not? 

Will the Jarvis brothers ever make the gravy for Delia?[:|]....Maybe, if foodball is preferable to football.

Are the just a couple of a-la-carte horses?

 

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Just like Mascherano wasn''t good enough for West Ham...

Many teams have some damn good players, but simply have too much quality competition to get a first team place, but that doesn''t make them poor players. If fact, having quality behind your first choice players is the key factor to any manager using a squad rotation system.

Sidwell is unlikely to keep the likes of Lampard, Ballack, Essien, Makelele, Cole etc out of the Chelsea team, so by your viewpoint he''s clearly not good enough and should move on?

McVeigh had an excellent season for us, then seemed to be inexplicably dropped.

It''s not as clear cut as you suggest Alex, and I maintain that Jarvo has never been given the proper opportunity to demonstrate his ability.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

Just like Mascherano wasn''t good enough for West Ham...

Many teams have some damn good players, but simply have too much quality competition to get a first team place, but that doesn''t make them poor players. If fact, having quality behind your first choice players is the key factor to any manager using a squad rotation system.

Sidwell is unlikely to keep the likes of Lampard, Ballack, Essien, Makelele, Cole etc out of the Chelsea team, so by your viewpoint he''s clearly not good enough and should move on?

McVeigh had an excellent season for us, then seemed to be inexplicably dropped.

It''s not as clear cut as you suggest Alex, and I maintain that Jarvo has never been given the proper opportunity to demonstrate his ability.

[/quote]

Your comparisons are hardly valid, Indy - quite shocking for someone

How you can compare Sidwell, a player who has just joined a world class squad with some class players ahead of him, to our very own Ryan Jarvis and our p*ss poor team over the few seasons seems quite inexplicable. What makes that argument even more laughable is that Sidwell has only just joined Chelsea - Jarvis has been hovering around the team (or should I say, the bench) for at least 4 years now - and he has not made any inroads. You think he has a lot of talent, fair enough - but wouldn''t that suggest that you think our manager (past and present, who you defend/ed so staunchly) is incompetant? After all, he sees him in training every day. Worthington did, Grant has. Yet when has Jarvis been used? During injury crisis'' or when we simply have no other option. That, to me, is not the hallmark of a striker with "ability" - all well and good for people to go all giddy because he scored a cracker in the final few minutes vs a defeat to Liverpool when they had stopped playing, but he needs to do that more consistently. There is no comeback there of "but he hasn''t had the chance!" because he so obviously has - he''s not working hard enough in training, and as his laughably poor display vs Dereham shows, he''s not working hard enough in games either.

Get rid. I for one am disappointed we still hold onto players who aren''t good enough - if he is still here and a regular goal scorer (adding to his 5 goals in 4 years) in 3 years time, I will hold my hands up, but do you honestly believe that will be the case?

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Just realised I didn''t finish my first line! Oops

"Quite shocking for someone who is usually very good at backing up their opinions [:P]"

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Alex,I wasn''t suggesting that Jarvis is of the same calibre as players such as Mascherano or Sidwell, but merely that circumstances can often dictate how many games a player gets regardless of their ability.There was no good reason for Mascherano not to have been played regularly, instead West Ham chose to play Hayden Mullins instead! A very average midfielder, compared to a world class international. What was the reason there? Was Mascherano crap in training? Did he and the manager not see eye to eye? Whatever the reason, he didn''t get the games his ability deserved.Sidwell may have only just joined Chelsea, but let''s not forget that this is the same guy who Arsenal let go aged 21 as they didn''t think he was good enough.I did defend Worthington staunchly as I felt he deserved the chance to turn things around, it didn''t happen and he was rightly removed from the job. And it surely has to be said that looking at youth or should I say, the failure to look at youth, was one of his biggest failings. Maybe they wouldn''t have been good enough, but he didn''t give any of them a real chance to prove otherwise. Grant is a different kettle of fish, as it would appear that like I do, he''s looking at the potential of players constructively. Jarvis needed games, so off he went on loan to Leyton, the same with Hendo @ Rotherham, Rossi & Halliday @ Torquay, Fisk & Cave-Brown @ Kings Lynn, and recently Lewis to Morecambe. Based on their performances there, Henderson and Fisk were released. Surely if Grant saw no real future for the other players, he''d have also released them at the same time?I still think many fans expect too much of younger players, especially seeing as how it''s considered that a striker is normally "in their prime" at 27-30 years old.I also think it''s pretty unfair to use the Dereham game as an example of poor play. I didn''t watch the match, but all the reports I''ve seen suggest that Jarvis was doing everything right but that the ball just didn''t want to go in. There are some games where it just goes like that. Now if it was like that in every game, then you''d have to analyse the situation in more depth, but there''s no indication this is the case.Like I say, I don''t see Jarvis as a first team regular yet, however I do think the potential is there for it to happen in a few seasons, and that if we called upon him to do a job, he''d do it, but until he gets regular games at a decent level, he''s never going to make the improvements needed to make the full transition from squad player to first team choice. The reserve and youth leagues are garbage and provide no real opportunity for development, hence why he was sent on loan to a league side.I just wish this guy could be given a run to prove the situation either way. Give him a decent set of games to show his ability, and if it doesn''t happen it would likely suggest that he truly isn''t up to the required standard, or he could show us exactly what he can do and become a player who will give us some real selection headaches.To clarify your final point Alex, if he isn''t either loaned out for the season or given a chance to play for us, I can''t see him being here in 3 years time, but if we did let him go, I can easily see that in 3 years the message boards are potentially going to have a lot of posters cursing the fact that we let him leave because he''s now performing very well for another team.

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There are some well reasoned replies here. My reason for starting this topic in the 1st place was because the Jarvis brothers seem to be still getting the occasional substitute appearances in meaningless matches, but it doesn''t look to me that it will ever be more than that at Norwich. In some ways I''m a bit surprised they are still here. It must be something like 4 years ago that Ryan made his debut, so this season will more than likely be make or break for him as far as his City career goes. Grant needs to make a decision on these players this year I feel.

The Jarvis''s are probably not quite good enough at this level, but I shall be pretty disappointed if Cave Brown isn''t given his chance if Otsemobor is injured this year. On the few times I''ve seen him play he''s looked like a good prospect to me.

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There is no doubt that spillane is our best youngster, he will get more of a chance this season especially if we dnt get another central midfielder and he will take his chance. Last season we saw wat a good player he was even if it was a limited number f apperances, and especially against southampton were he really got stuck in. None of the Jarvis brothers are good enough.

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But the doc and hughes are good enough are they?  I don''t ever remember either of the jarvis brothers being given a fair run in the first team. They have had the odd start here and the odd sub appearence there. I don''t think they have been given a fair chance and if i was either of them, i would of left by now. Good luck to the both of them because they are smashing lads!!

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