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1st Wizard

Norwich Football Firm

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[quote user="Millo"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

I remember that Fulham game as we were wlking across the bridge when the boat full of our boys came cruising along the river followed by a couple of police launches. Was like something out of Benny Hill!

Seems to be one or two days out a season these days when a few of the old faces appear for a bit of a day out! The lads will always be there as (contrary to what some people like to make out) they are real fans and most do go to games. Not much real trouble now though as the consequences are too severe for what in other scenarios would be regarded as pretty minor offences.

 

[/quote]

I was actually on that boat. See 1st wizards thread "wonderful city memories" , in the archives.

"taking a boat to the match at Fulham, and watching my mate enjoy what he thought was water splashing in his face untill he realised someone was having a p@ss off the deck and was getting soaked in urine."

[/quote]

You would no doubt know my son Millo? I had to laugh about the peeing incident, i''ll mention it to him. He was saying that in the main they were all like minded lads who more than anything liked a drink loved Norwich and sometimes the compination of both got them in a few scrapes!

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In the early 70''s particularly when we won promotion to the 1st division it was quite serious, even in Norwich, and the Barclay Boys had quite a rep. I remember the rivalry v London Clubs was always quite fierce, particularly v Millwall and West Ham, they were almost like local derbies and could be very naughty and actually frighteningly dangerous (e.g. the ICF used to like throwing half bricks and tomatoes with razorblades inside). There was also one infamous clash with Millwall behind the Barclay at half time which was lengthy and brutal for all involved. There were a number of Norwich boys then who could hold their own... 

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Quite refreshing to see one or two on here who understand.  Must admit to thinking most were "new" fans who didn''t remember the good old days, and I do mean good old days, of terracing, football specials, and that adrenalin rush as you entered the away towns and cities. 

If you''ve not experienced it don''t just knock it.  Not all non shirt wearing supporters are criminals and many that I mix with are great blokes and mostly well respected professionals in their work and social lives. Its just a way of life that used to be at the heart of most of us old Barclay Boys.  If those that don''t remember, or are too young or new to the club, look back at the old videos of the 70''s you''ll see us packed in the middle pen.  We would genuinely love to be back there, standing, jumping up and down, and singing our hearts out for the team.  Some of us moved into the centre of the old south stand until seats were put in.  Sad day.  Many of us are now in the spread around the Snakepit and City Stand.

Jas (you must be about 24 ish now?) I come in peace but you talk out of ignorance.  Never say a Norwich lad is a coward.  In the old days we made the atmosphere that others enjoyed.  At away games that used to result in us being targeted by the opposing clubs lads (and in many cases that meant hundreds) and manys the time we had to protect ourselves just for supporting our team.  Apart from certain grounds (Grimsby, Oxford, QPR, Derby come to mind) very rarely did city ever go looking for trouble.  It would just come to you if you openly supported your team in a large group.  Many like you Jas live in a new era of football with banning orders, identity cards (Stoke, Millwall, Cardiff etc), dawn raids, police, stewards, CCTV etc to make your day away (and at Carrow Road) a comfortable and safe one, and so it should be as its a sporting event.

However, for some of those who have been going to football home and away for many many years, but are still fit thank god, we hark back to the days of catching very early trains, going to grounds via many a pub, having a laugh, being in a large group etc. This is what we enjoy even if modern day football doesn''t particularly like us anymore.  Not cowards, not all trouble makers, just old style football fans doing what they like doing well away from the "new" supporters.  Each to their own.  Lovely.

 

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Anybody who thinks that these oxygen thiefs are just a bunch of lads having fun is an idiot. People like this caused the ban on English teams in Europe and contibuted to us not being able to take our rightful place after winning the Milk Cup. Those of you who have looked back fondly on this time should be ashamed of yourselves.

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Norwich always use to have decent numbers at home and I suspect many people on here remember the crowd gathering near the bridge after games down Riverside road and maybe were even part of it! Seen a few away and some home fans take an early bath in the Wensum. 

My own experiences are from 83-86 when I was teenager and believe it or not it was quite the norm to at least have the pretence of standing around and looking tough! I have been chased on many occasions and done my fair share of chasing at times with the crowd. Surrounded by Chelsea fans on the Riverside Bridge and knocked on my backside by a Portsmouth fan in the 85-86 encounters, which was a very long day.

Also seem to remember Birmingham last game at home, which must have been in 86 season being an interesting day. Obviously Ipswich at home during the 85 semi-final rolling fight between the Bell and the pub near the EEN building going on for what seemed like for ever, plus a few very long afternoons down Portman road.

Do I regret that period in my life. Well on reflection not really. It was part of growing up for me. Fortunately apart from a few bruises to the ego, I was pretty much unharmed and never did great harm to others. Am I glad it does not take place in the same numbers as in the ‘bad’ old days and that football is now a game where the family can attend? Well yes I am, but we all live and learn hopefully.

 

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Strange you don''t seem to think "new" supporters like going to pubs in groups and watching football matches, but I guess that''s not what you are referring to.

If it was really each to their own then fine. But hooligans are the reason we didn''t get into Europe in 1985, and is the reason current English fans are treated like dirt when abroad. Lovely.

 

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Running with the pack..........Yahoo. ''Well ''Ard!'' It''s soooooo seventies.......[|-)]

Is violence ever justified?

If opposing little so-called hard-men/women, who live a mundane shallow existence, and work 9-5 pushing pens or whatever, find the need (using football as an excuse) to kick seven bells of sawdust out of where an intelligent functioning brain normally resides......Crack on. Just don''t do it in the presence of decent and responsible human beings - who prefer not to participate in such infantile and irresponsible behaviour......Oh, and don''t expect medical treatment or the NHS to repair your damaged carcasses.[:''(]

If you want a real ruck and a fight, sign up and volunteer your services in Afghanistan or Iraq......Eh?

 

  

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I went to loads of games home and away at the height of the aggro and apart from one incident at Upton Park when I foolishly went bonkers amongst Hammers fans when David Jones bagged a brace....and getting hit on the head by a well aimed Ipswich fan''s Toffolux I never had any problems. It was there if you wanted it....but like most City fan''s I went for the football, not a fight. Cowards we weren''t....smart in the head we were.

The classic in the Barclay then was for the away fans (usually Londoners who you know I don''t like) to set fire to a sheet of newspaper and "air float" it over into the City enclosure.

The worst I experienced however was that fateful Man Utd. match where the moron fell through the roof. It was seriously hairy and we should all be glad those days have gone.

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One Flew Over..nice touch of siacasm....I''m referring to the recent Premier Season where we gained around 1,000 new away fans.  Most games we''d try to stand up and help get the atmosphere going for the players only to be told to sit down and shut up.  Part of that problem is with so many travelling (which for the clubs reputation is great) you have to go to your allocated seat.  The games where you can pay on the gate you can go wherever so those that want to sing can get together and leave the blanket and flask brigade to do their own thing away from the awful noise.  Football used to be about showing your passion not sitting quietly as if watching village cricket.  I do however understand that many of the songs we used to sing in the old days are not PC for today. 

Everton and Bolton away the singing got going but then there was just the hard core. Why do we create a good atmosphere at places like Rotherham on a Tuesday night (we''re the right side....etc)??  It''s because the new support don''t like to trouble themselves for these occasions.  Chelsea away in the FA Cup and they''ll all be there again.  Fair enough, it''s the way of football today, its just something we have to accept.  Part of the reason (the football being crap hasn''t helped) the Snakepit has been quieter is because people have moved in for the atmosphere but don''t want to help create it.  Barclay beware....hope the two pre-season friendlies are not a sign that the same is happening to you.  Having spilt blood sweat and tears on the old Barclay I''d hate it go the same way as so many famous "ends".

Was talking to some old Stretford end lads who say they still go (you can always see them drinking by the cross roads before the game) but are all now split up round the ground surrounded by Chinese students etc who sit and politely applaud but have killed the atmosphere.  I still can''t believe we sang "my garden shed" at Old Trafford and didn''t get a reaction.  Same happened at Highbury whereby the boys stopped going when they were all split up in the North Bank.  Hence it became The Highbury Library.  They started using some of the larger pubs round the area instead where they could watch the game, stand up, sing, and have a beer.   Each to their own. Btw after the events of 1985 I stopped going to football for two years.

GJD you mentioned Portsmouth.  Have some good stories of them.  The milkcart at 6am in 1971!  We met up with JW (the bell ringer) and his boys in the Coach and Horses in the recent Prem Season.  While the atmosphere became a bit strained as they were much the worse for wear, a few memories were exchanged.   

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It''s unfair to blame new (i.e. younger) supporters for the atmosphere in grounds today. The reason everyone is seated, and asked to sit down by stewards, is a direct result of violence by "football fans" in the 70s/80s. I''d hazard a guess the 1,000 extra fans at certain away matches are either supporters of the other team or neutrals just there to see the big name players.

People can have a few pints, and sing and cheer the team on for 90 minutes without needing to fight opposition fans, I don''t see any relationship between the two. A Bristol City fan who went to the Millwall match in Bristol last year said about 200 Millwall fans all turned up dressed in black, were marched by police from the station to the ground, turned their backs to the pitch the entire game, then got marched back to the station. Hardly great supporters.

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BDCSid... Regarding some of the criticism, I doubt anyone who was not around in the 70''s will understand. It was a cultural aspect of the times as much as anything. I don''t condone it, especially to those who dont understand, but it was as much a part of the football day then as the game itself. I do know that the atmosphere at grounds now (apart from Liverpool perhaps) is absolutely nothing like it was then, and thats a shame for the new age supporters...maybe thats why they criticise so much? 

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Congrats No.4, this is a great post - certainly stirred up some reaction and opinions.

It seems to me that those who were not involved in the 70''s & 80''s cannot understand the attitudes and social scenes at that time. This was a time when the youth (and I say that lightly) brought their aggressive machoism to a central stage, that being football grounds (since the 50''s, Teddy boys, Mods, Rockers etc had been ruining days out for families at Brighton, Southend, Gt Yarmouth etc, so the violence was nothing new).

While many involved at that time probably do not boast or gloat about the events, it was a part of their life (myself included) and reflected many of the feelings of that time - jobs in decline, strong union dissent, lack of money for leisure, greater need for youth to express themselves etc etc. All this installed a "mentality" into people, and some reacted by demonstrating in the streets around parliament, some reacted by going on strike from their jobs, and the youth reacted by going through a couple of decades of violence.

Actually, what is the difference between that and the violence that is occurring now, every Friday and Saturday night at chucking out time, in every Town & City in the UK? Mostly the types of injuries sustained at that time were bruised ego''s, a few black eyes and some missing teeth - Jas mentioned (wrongly) about all the "boys" being cowards, maybe some were the majority were not, but to me a coward is the person nowadays who can use a knife or even a gun to inflict the ultimate injury and not even have to look his victim in the eye.

So, I do consider myself to be a good citizen - I would not steal from anyone or cheat them, I certainly would not intetionally hurt anybody an if there was trouble in the vacinity I would firstly try to avoid it. BUT, I am not a coward, and in my younger days (even as a member of the forces) I did mix it occassionally - while I don''t boast about it, I do not regret it.

 

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[quote user="One Flew Over..."]

It''s unfair to blame new (i.e. younger) supporters for the atmosphere in grounds today. The reason everyone is seated, and asked to sit down by stewards, is a direct result of violence by "football fans" in the 70s/80s. I''d hazard a guess the 1,000 extra fans at certain away matches are either supporters of the other team or neutrals just there to see the big name players.

People can have a few pints, and sing and cheer the team on for 90 minutes without needing to fight opposition fans, I don''t see any relationship between the two. A Bristol City fan who went to the Millwall match in Bristol last year said about 200 Millwall fans all turned up dressed in black, were marched by police from the station to the ground, turned their backs to the pitch the entire game, then got marched back to the station. Hardly great supporters.

[/quote]

The point is that for the new fans the culture that underpins this nostalgia is totally alien. The social networks have broken down and yes this is in part to all seater stadiums. Time was youngsters tagged on to the older groups when they started going to matches (home and away) and came up through the ranks. Now with the ground eaten up by season ticket holders they are slipped in when seats are spare or quarantined in the family enclosure so they never learn the folk history. Ironically, while average attendences are now higher the number of fans has dropped. Time was the guys (and it was far more macho in those days so it was nearly always guys) who played or worked Saturdays would take in the mid week games and vice versa. And those working/living away would take in a game if City were playing close, or not so close. The struggle to get casual tickets now discourages or bars these from games with the result that fewer people go more regularly. Not saying this is good or bad, just very very different. The new fans don''t half moan though, with their protests and blogs. I don''t remember that happening, we booed, sure, but got over it and were back to supporting the team again next time but the culture sustained us. Seems likes now they want guaranteed performance like a film or theatre. But I guess one big difference is it now costs the same rather than a couple of quid...........

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I would like to think that in some small way the culture lives on with some of us who still make a day out of away games. I''ll admit i''m too young to have been around in the 70s/80s but I don''t think that the culture is alien to all of us younger generations of supporters thankfully.

 

Still a real buzz setting out from Norwich at some ungodly hour with 30 others on the way to some northern dump with 15 hours of solid drinking ahead of you and not knowing quite what reception may be in store from the locals! Nobody up for violence just looking for a good day out. Its about cameraderie more than anything else and those on here who turn their noses up at it will never understand. I''ve had some of the funniest days of my life and met some of the most amusing people I know on the road watching Norwich over the last 10 years.

Jim

CBS/FTF

 

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some good views on this thread BDCSid wasn''t old enough to be taking Millwall on in the 70s but remember the mid 80s and early 90s as being lively days, i can see some of the younger posters opinions on this as probably a good % haven''t seen a punch thrown in anger since they have been going and can''t understand the reasoning behind some of the posts but the walk up Prince Of Wales road on most match days in the 80s was normally quite a hairy one and i suspect any of the 17 to 25 year olds on here slating the actions of some in the past would perhaps change there views on things if they were clumped a couple of times which often happened to City fans hooligans or not .Times have changed but IMO you couldn''t beat a night game at the Old Valley or Highbury with just a couple of hundred City fans for company

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Football today will never be the same as it was back in the days of  terracing. Arriving at the ground, going into a packed barclay terrace and standing next to the away fans and fans skirmishing back and forward goading each other at the fences. The atmosphere was electric then. Also the lovely burgers they done then at the back of the stand (horse meat burgers). The smell of piss and people smoking and beer. Brings a tear to my eye.   Best days by far,  Gone but certainly not forgotten.

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Some great posts on this thread.

I think we all have to accept that some people will always have different

opinions on this type of subject.

I belong to the segment that has very fond memories of terrace culture. (Which

no one can deny that it was that!)

 From the mid 80''s (when I first started

going with my mates) to the late 80''s and up until the late 90''s I would have

been labelled as one of the ''Norwich Lads''. Our time was spent visiting

numerous places over the country normally in relatively small numbers compared

to a lot of the other firms and groups that were prominent at the time. Unlike some of the other boys who came and

went and were more fixated on purely the aggro, I was a fan first and foremost

and the rest of the antics seemed to come hand in hand with being a young lad

growing up.

 The days of standing in the middle pen of

the Barclay terrace, tightly packed together, being coined, spat at, but at the

same time an absolutely electric atmosphere and my god if we scored you’d have

better not been stuck directly behind one of the crowd barriers, because that

was painful!  Most weeks you could have

got carried down the top of the Barclay steps without even putting your feet on

the ground. Fantastic memories of times that will never return.

I still go and have held a season ticket for nigh on 20 years, and no one could

ever question my support for the club. At the time I couldn’t imagine a better

thrill and buzz and thought it would never change. A number of us still go every week and as previous posters have said, we can be

seen fairly visible in and around the snakepit and city stand areas. Nowadays it’s

all about the odd day out away all together and a few beers before the game on

most match days.

Yes we all grow up eventually; do I regret any of it? Definitely not, apart

from a few bumps and bruises and a few scars, I''m still in prime shape. The

downside, a few trips to the magistrates and crown courts and with all the

worry that comes along with it, you soon realise that it’s not such a good

idea.

I''m now a family man, have a good job and love Norwich City

as much as I ever did.

The lads I stood shoulder to shoulder with

I still consider being salt of the earth and for the benefit of some of the

other posters, cowards they most certainly are not! Back in the day we did

ourselves proud considering we were a relatively small city club. Certain games

back then we’d easily pull 200+ lads for a fixture against QPR, Portsmouth,

West Ham etc, pretty amazing sight I have to say.

These days you’d have to be pretty stupid

to want to get involved, you only have to posture and there’s a 3 year banning

order slapped on your head straight away. Times change and so do people.

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Growing up in Leicestershire I do not know too much about any Norwich firms other than what I have heard about the Stein''s and NHS, so may be my finger was never on the pulse enough of what was actually happening in the City itself back then.

I have witnessed a few scuffles in the eighties though.

Think it was more of a case of a few boys following their team, having a few pints and being prepared to not run away when trouble came their way rather than ever actually seeking trouble like a number of the more well known firms scattered around the country.

I for one miss the culture of the terraces, the close segregation from hostile away fans that we had in the Barclay and the adrenalin in the belly when being marched to and from other teams grounds.  The fact I mis most about those days is being able to mingle with like minded supporters who share the same ideas with you about how the club is being run and share other interests with you also.  All too often nowadays you have to sit alongside somebody that is on another planet and this is just as frustrating as some of the performances that have been served up of late.

A bit of banter never done anybody any real harm,, but then again a bit of banter in those days all too often turned in to something else...

The moves that have been made in the last 10 years or so to reduce the risk of a bit of banter spilling over in to violence must be applauded, but it does appear over the last few years that the spectre of serious football violence is starting to rear it''s ugly head again as those who wish to get involved have wised up to some of the tactics employed by the police.

I for one hope that the Police manage to stay on top of things and with the serious nature of some of the charges being handed out by the courts in recent years this is always going to act as a big deterrent to the vast majority of those who would otherwise possibly choose to get involved in such activities.

For anybody that may fancy a bit of action this coming season then watch out for Bristol City.... Check out Youtube for clips of them taking out a bar in Nottingham after their match against Forest last season.

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