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Arthur Whittle

Unsuccesful seaon-Blame PG or Board?

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Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

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IMO PG takes credit and failure on this one completely!

 

I know many think he hasnt been given the money, which is true in part, but I like PG, and he is definately building his own squad, I am giving him a full season before I judge him, as even Capello himself would struggle with Thorne and McVeigh!

 

My point is, the squad is now his, the players he hasnt signed or given new contracts to (and wants to keep) are a handful.  2 transfer windows he has made the squad his, he now lives or dies by it.  Worthy made his with his promotion winning squad, and lost it with his next creation!  I dont buy into the "money" issue as much as others.

 

Take Wolves, Glenn Hoddle walked away cos they told him to do better and slash the wage budget and raise money.  Mick came in and did it, buying trusty players from lower leagues and prem rejects.  it can be done, and grant is trying to do it, so he alone lives or dies by his team - and I am sure from what I have seen of the man he would want it no other way.

 

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Depends.

If PG is denied the funds that he needs to build a side that can challenge for a play off place then I guess that would be the board''s fault.

However, if there''s a decent amount of money available and he wastes it on players who are not capable then that''s his fault.

If we have a succesful season who will you give credit to?

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Blame: either/both/neither - It would depend on who actually was to blame for the season, if anyone.

Credit: either/both/neither - It would depend on who actually responsable for the way season went, if anyone.

Position wise, promotion or play-offs would be wonderful. 

If we''re mid table then I don''t really care to much between 9th and

18th, I''d rather be 18th with a positive goal difference than 9th with

a negative one.

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depends what you call unsuccessful?

For me the  responsibility will sit with the manager;  it is no longer someone elses squad and PG has been able to reshape it the way he wants.   He has had funds and seemingly still has funds to change things.

His biggest challenge remains making a team from the individuals;    he has to shape the tactics and formations to consistently get the best from his squad and create a togetherness that has been missing, enabling us to become better as a team than the sum of the  individual players.  If that doesnt happen (and thats what management is about) and we dont ''succeed'' then its PGs ''fault''.

However there are many extraneous circumstances which could mean we are unsuccessful without blame lieing at anyones door.   

 

 

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote]

We ARE going to have yet another abysmal season...but even by finishing 10th many on this forum will claim a distorted "victory". There will be the usual chants of "give him time"...."we are rebuilding for the future"...."injuries conspired against us"...."the youngsters need experience"....blah de blah de blah.

The City Board are cowardly....and the manager a footballing dwarf in shoes far too big for his feet. You are right that most of the fans I know away from this board are in total conflict to the mainstream view on here....but I guess that''s what makes it so much fun..........

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Depends.

If PG is denied the funds that he needs to build a side that can challenge for a play off place then I guess that would be the board''s fault.

However, if there''s a decent amount of money available and he wastes it on players who are not capable then that''s his fault.

If we have a succesful season who will you give credit to?

[/quote]

I would give the credtit to PG. He is the one who has signed the players but at the same time if it does turn sour i would blame the board if they fail to make further funds available, if they do and Pg wastes it then its PGs fault. What do you class as a successful season?

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In the summer purchases I think we have seen Grant, Duffy, Gunn and the non-footballing staff working effectively together to bring in a number of decent professionals, the Jimmy Smith loan is a case of them thinking on their feet to bring a capable replacement in for Etuhu in short order.  Grant hasn''t come out to the press saying that he needs more money for players, unlike his predecessor.   He has shown his frustration at losing Etuhu and Earnshaw, which was out of his control, and indeed out of the clubs'' control. Whether the players brought in will succeed as a unit is down to the footballing staff.

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It would seem that some people would start the season looking for a "distorted" view on things . . . . .

The thing is Cluck, if we made the play-offs on the last day of the season I reckon you would come out with the we didn''t deserve it line or how "luck" got us there and not the ability of the team.

I think that in all honesty if you were a decent sort of person you would not make up your mind untill the season has ended. There are too many possible factors that could effect a season.

For example the first few games before the closure of the loan window are vital. The team needs to take advantage of the teams that are still scrambling around for the odd player. Plus we may need to get some in ourselves.

A good start is a must. Then its a matter of addressing where we are at Christmas and seeing how Grant/board deals with this in the January transfer window. In fairness a long time before this we will be able to see for ourselves what this squad has to offer.

From that point we can look to see how Grant and the Board tackle what-ever predicament we are in.

If we start off really badly will the Board axe Grant? Or issue an altimatum?

We could do a Cardiff and be top untill Christmas and it go bottoms up on us. I would have been really disappointed with Jones last season if I were a Cardiff fan - they could not keep up the momentum.

And for me it is more about points than places. We could finish 10th and only 3 points off 6th. That would suggest a very difficult/competative league that season. We could finnish 7th and 10points off 6th which would be arguably more of an issue because it would suggest we are way off the pace.

So look at it anyway you like but I for one will try to keep an open mind rather than suggest what kind of a season we will have before the season kicks off.

If you are asking for a prediction I will wait untill I have seen the 1st choice team, its line up/formation and for a couple of league games at least to get a measure of what the other teams are like.

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PG tells the board which players he wants if they back him and bring them in and we don''t do well definatly Grants fault , If the board don''t back him then they can be blamed.

Tricky one though we could have a lot of injurys with both parties giving their all and then it would be no ones fault.

I wasn''t a PG fan to begin with but am very impressed with his attitude of '' if they dont want to be here then they can go '' towards players and staff a winning mentality Imo.

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Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote]

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I really cant see us as a top two side there will be at least 4 teams better then us , I think a serious play off challenge would be progress.

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failure to me is not making the top 6. We will have been in this league for 3 seasons, have had money come in and there is no reason why we cant compete. How many clubs in this league are bigger than norwich? Potenially none!

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[quote user="JC"]

Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote][/quote]

Pushing for the play offs towards the last few games is improvement although i wouldnt say success as that could ahve been achieved over the last 2 years.. Anything other than that is complete failure for the 4th year running so please dont twist my words into an argument.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="JC"]

Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote][/quote]

Pushing for the play offs towards the last few games is improvement although i wouldnt say success as that could ahve been achieved over the last 2 years.. Anything other than that is complete failure for the 4th year running so please dont twist my words into an argument.

[/quote]

Bottom line is three teams will be successful and three will be failures.

The rest are in it for the ride.

It won''t be the board or PG, football is played by footballers!

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[quote user="The Sheriff"]

PG tells the board which players he wants if they back him and bring them in and we don''t do well definatly Grants fault , If the board don''t back him then they can be blamed.

Tricky one though we could have a lot of injurys with both parties giving their all and then it would be no ones fault.

I wasn''t a PG fan to begin with but am very impressed with his attitude of '' if they dont want to be here then they can go '' towards players and staff a winning mentality Imo.

[/quote]

I am more worried why they dont want to be here, i mean Hunter going to Watford hardly a step up is it. Talk is cheap its action we need.

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[quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="JC"]

Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote][/quote]

Pushing for the play offs towards the last few games is improvement although i wouldnt say success as that could ahve been achieved over the last 2 years.. Anything other than that is complete failure for the 4th year running so please dont twist my words into an argument.

[/quote]

Bottom line is three teams will be successful and three will be failures.

The rest are in it for the ride.

It won''t be the board or PG, football is played by footballers!

[/quote]

Hang on..who buys and motivates the players and picks the tactics and training? who authorisies the transfer of players and contracts? who employs the manager? At the end of the day the buck always stops at the top although those at the top normally look for a scapegoat.

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[quote user="ricky knight"][quote user="The Sheriff"]

PG tells the board which players he wants if they back him and bring them in and we don''t do well definatly Grants fault , If the board don''t back him then they can be blamed.

Tricky one though we could have a lot of injurys with both parties giving their all and then it would be no ones fault.

I wasn''t a PG fan to begin with but am very impressed with his attitude of '' if they dont want to be here then they can go '' towards players and staff a winning mentality Imo.

[/quote]

I am more worried why they dont want to be here, i mean Hunter going to Watford hardly a step up is it. Talk is cheap its action we need.

[/quote]

Exactly what i was thinking. Why would hunter leave norwich for the mighty watford unless they are showing more ambition?

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="JC"]

Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote][/quote]

Pushing for the play offs towards the last few games is improvement although i wouldnt say success as that could ahve been achieved over the last 2 years.. Anything other than that is complete failure for the 4th year running so please dont twist my words into an argument.

[/quote]

Bottom line is three teams will be successful and three will be failures.

The rest are in it for the ride.

It won''t be the board or PG, football is played by footballers!

[/quote]

Hang on..who buys and motivates the players and picks the tactics and training? who authorisies the transfer of players and contracts? who employs the manager? At the end of the day the buck always stops at the top although those at the top normally look for a scapegoat.

[/quote]

Arthur, do you ever get the feeling we are debating with the "new breed" of supporters who have decided that they are football experts after three or four years watching the game......?!

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Think Hunter wasn''t happy when he didnt get the Manager''s job Arthur and even less happy when Grant brought his friend Duffy in.

I don''t think its anything to do with Watford having more ambition than us, I think its more a clash of personalities.

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[quote user="Cluck "][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote]

We ARE going to have yet another abysmal season...but even by finishing 10th many on this forum will claim a distorted "victory". There will be the usual chants of "give him time"...."we are rebuilding for the future"...."injuries conspired against us"...."the youngsters need experience"....blah de blah de blah.

The City Board are cowardly....and the manager a footballing dwarf in shoes far too big for his feet. You are right that most of the fans I know away from this board are in total conflict to the mainstream view on here....but I guess that''s what makes it so much fun..........

[/quote]

I disagree with many of your comments Cluck but in this case I would concede that you have been proved right. There seems to be no appetite for a real tilt at promotion. Along with many of the faithful I am ever hopeful that we might exceed expectations but the reality is that a more sober judgement puts us among the also rans. A quick glance at the bookies odds tells us all we need to know, anything else is just wishful thinking.

Its sad that our once great club has been reduced to this and I wish I had an answer for it. Only a big injection of ambition and the cash to back it up will do any good now. Failing that solution I can only see many more years of mediocracy stretching out before us.

If does turn out to be another poor season then Grant may have to pay with his head. It will be a shame because I think he is a sincere and hard working guy who really wants to push this club forward. Without the requisite cash back up I fear he is doomed to failure. Where then will that leave the board? They will have failed to adequately back two managers and we will be no better off than we were ten years ago. Public opinion which at the moment seems to be on their side will then swing dramatically against them. I can''t accept that the fans will continue to accept failure forever so given my prediction, a bust up is likely to be not too far down the line.

Having said all that, I continue to dream and fervantly hope that this will be a good season.

My heart says yes but my head says no.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="JC"]

Interesting as a detractor that you see a top 6 finish with no mention of play off final or eventual promotion, as a success. If we scrape into 6th but are 15 points behind 5th is that success?

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Hyperthetical question-where would you stand if we have another dismal season, and who would you blame? Im asking this question on this site because the majority of people i know away from this site are fed up and are against the board. So if the worst does happen do you see it as Pg failing or the board failing? At the end of the day, the board sanctions transfers, makes funds available etc. On the other hand if we have a good season and finish top 6 is it the board or Pg who take the credit? Also what would be your idea of a good/successful season posistion wise?

[/quote][/quote]

Pushing for the play offs towards the last few games is improvement although i wouldnt say success as that could ahve been achieved over the last 2 years.. Anything other than that is complete failure for the 4th year running so please dont twist my words into an argument.

[/quote]

Bottom line is three teams will be successful and three will be failures.

The rest are in it for the ride.

It won''t be the board or PG, football is played by footballers!

[/quote]

Hang on..who buys and motivates the players and picks the tactics and training? who authorisies the transfer of players and contracts? who employs the manager? At the end of the day the buck always stops at the top although those at the top normally look for a scapegoat.

[/quote]

Arthur, do you ever get the feeling we are debating with the "new breed" of supporters who have decided that they are football experts after three or four years watching the game......?!

[/quote]

I do feel there are a certain amount of people who jumped on the promotion and play off bandwagon, so e are agreed my friend.

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

I would give the credtit to PG. He is the one who has signed the players but at the same time if it does turn sour i would blame the board if they fail to make further funds available, if they do and Pg wastes it then its PGs fault. What do you class as a successful season?

[/quote]

To be in with a shout of getting into the play-offs in the last two to three weeks of the season would be a start and would be a big improvement on the last two seasons.

In all honesty I don''t think you can sit here in July and say "anything other than a top six finish is a failure" or something similar. There are too many variables that we''re just not aware of at the moment. Chelsea''s season went badly wrong last year when Cech and Terry got injured at similar times but you would never accuse their board of being unambitious. I want us to be challenging for promotion next season and I''ll be disapointed if we don''t give it a good go, but I''ll wait and see what happens in the next few moths before I decide what I think is acceptable.

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[quote user="cityangel"]

Think Hunter wasn''t happy when he didnt get the Manager''s job Arthur and even less happy when Grant brought his friend Duffy in.

I don''t think its anything to do with Watford having more ambition than us, I think its more a clash of personalities.

[/quote]

Dearest CA, i do value your opinion to an extent but how you find excuses for everything that goes wrong is beyond me. Martin Hunter is highly rated so why didnt the board fight tooth and nail to keep him? If it was a personality clash why leave during pre season training and not before and why did PG say he was so upset he left so close to the season?

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[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Martin Hunter is highly rated

[/quote]

By who? PG has gradually cleared out all of the deadwood asscoiated with the last two years of failure, Hunter was part of that so he''s been moved on. Simple as that.

The fact that you criticise the board for ''spin'' but use so much of it yourself is, quite frankly, laughable.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Martin Hunter is highly rated

[/quote]

By who? PG has gradually cleared out all of the deadwood asscoiated with the last two years of failure, Hunter was part of that so he''s been moved on. Simple as that.

The fact that you criticise the board for ''spin'' but use so much of it yourself is, quite frankly, laughable.

[/quote]

Why didnt Grant get rid off him then?

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