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Indy_Bones

The madness continues...

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Has everyone gone mad?

I can''t believe that so many people think that the sale of Etuhu and

Safri would spell the downfall of our club. They were both very average

last season and many were actually calling for us to get rid of Etuhu

ASAP, now suddenly we''re being offered good money and it''s a terrible

thing???

Think back a few years to when Man Utd signed Djemba-Djemba, another

player with a lot of potential who never fully demonstrated it. Signed

for £3.5 million, sold on to Villa for £1.5 million, and now being

loaned at the the likes of Burnley as Villa desperately try to get some

sort of fee for him. Here''s a guy who Ferguson couldn''t get to perform

consistently (just like Etuhu), who sold him on (just like Davies did),

and who has failed to show consistency since (just like Etuhu).

So why is it that Ferguson et al are not being ridiculed over it?

Simple, because he signed a superior replacement, yet no-one seems to

want to give Grant the chance to do this.

I also find it incredible that so many also think that there are no

alternatives available??? There are plenty of players who could be

signed with the money who would be reasonable replacements, and many of

those who would actually be superior, but apparently all the midfielders available are all crap...absolute nonsense.Names like Ben Watson (would be an excellent acquisition) have been touted on the boards, I''ve also mentioned a number of other players who are all affordable and likely to do a good job for us.Let''s face it, players who weren''t good enough last year, are not suddenly good enough now, and that includes Etuhu, Safri and Doherty. Gally wasn''t up to it, so we''ve signed Gilks and Marshall with young Lewis as third choice. Grant wasn''t truly happy with either Colin or Hughes at right back so with signed Otsemobor. Grant was clearly looking to make changes in midfield hence the signing or Brellier, and he obviously is expecting big things from Fozzy.Personally, I couldn''t care less whether the sale of these players was planned or not, if I''m walking down the street with a 99p Cheeseburger and some maniac comes up and offers me £50 for it, I''m hardly going to tell him to no am I? Instead I''d take the cash and go and buy a steak instead.This analogy perfectly represents the situation for me. Even if for some reason I can''t get my hands on a steak, I do know I can get another cheeseburger and still have plenty of cash left over, it''s a no lose situation.We''ve still got ages left in the transfer window to bring in replacements for Etuhu and Safri, along with the centre half we need instead of Doherty.I''ll re-iterate a point as well, we should not be persisting with players purely based on potential, when their current performances clearly do not justify this. Newcastle did this with Titus Bramble, what a great move that was...Time for a fresh new look to the team, and these sales are likely to be a major catalyst in acheiving that. Thanks for the time lads, but off you go to WBA and Sunderland, we''ll get some players in who can not only manage a full season, but perform consistently doing it, something neither departing player has acheived here.

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Exactly Indy.

A lot of people on here are assuming that because they can''t see an alternative, that there is no alternative.  It won''t be the end of the world if an inconsistent but improving Etuhu, and an occasionally effective Safri leave the club for large fees, especially if the money raised could be used to bring in younger / fitter (in the case of Safri) or more consistent players, who want to come here to improve themselves and the club.

Ironic that those who have been calling for change at the club for as long as I''ve been reading this board are up in arms about it when it actually happens.

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The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.

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Once again rose-tinted spectacles. Etuhu and Safri are very obviously two of our best players yet even with them we finished 16th last season.

Your analogy is flawed in so many ways. Yes, getting big fees for players is not neccessarily a disaster and can even work out to be a good thing. But the money MUST be put back into the team and a club MUST have the balls to push the boat out a bit if a really good player becomes available and can realistically be signed.

This has not happened (bar Earnshaw) since we passed up the opportunity to sign Crouch for £2.5million and signed Doherty for £500k and played him up front. This is why we have been lumbered with Hughes, Doherty, Colin, Brown and Croft when the likes of Sidwell, Eastwood, Halford, Chopra and Koumas have been looking for a move for a realistic fee. Quite simply, if the board have the choice between quality or the cheap option, they go for the latter almost every time.

Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

EXACTLY.  

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.

[/quote]

I''m sure Etuhu was one of those replacements? [8-)]

 

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[quote]Once again rose-tinted spectacles. Etuhu and Safri are very obviously two of our best players yet even with them we finished 16th last season.[/quote]Your statement, if true, suggests that we need better players.Youssef Safri - number of starts in league matches01 / 02 - 2202 / 03 - 2403 / 04 - 3104 / 05 - 1305 / 06 - 2506 / 07 - 29Thats an average of 24 league match starts per season, over the last 6 seasons.Etuhu scored 6 goals for us in 41 league starts last season, but must share some responsibility for the 70+ goals that the team conceded over the season.  That said, losing him is a blow.  But it''s one that the team can recover from.[quote]This is why we have been lumbered with Hughes, Doherty, Colin, Brown and Croft when the likes of Sidwell, Eastwood, Halford, Chopra and Koumas have been looking for a move for a realistic fee.[/quote]There is a huge difference between a realistic fee and a realistic transfer.  Location plays a part, wages another.  Due to the competitive nature of the market, will never land every transfer target, not that there is any suggestion that Sidwell, Eastwood, Halford, Chopra and Koumas were considered by Worthington.[quote]Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.[/quote]The evidence of the summer signings ( I shan''t list them, you know who they are [:)] ) suggests that the new management are working harder than before to bring in new players.  Your evidence, dare I say it, points to the Worthington era.  Every manager signs duff players, putting some (in your opinion) duff signings (that were mainly signed by Worthington) in a sentence doesn''t prove that the next player that this manager signs will be a duff one.Who did Etuhu replace ?  And was he considered to be better or worse than the player he replaced at the time ? [:)]We dort loikes chaynge in Narfook, dooo we ?

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[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

Exactly Ricky. Some people can''t seem to see the wood for the trees.

Something is seriously wrong in the camp. Its obvious to some of us that there is no direction or planning. The club are simply reacting to events that are spinning out of control.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

Exactly Ricky. Some people can''t seem to see the wood for the trees.

Something is seriously wrong in the camp. Its obvious to some of us that there is no direction or planning. The club are simply reacting to events that are spinning out of control.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.

[/quote]

I''m sure Etuhu was one of those replacements? [8-)]

 

[/quote]

I was under the impression he was the belated and inferior replacement for Francis.  To be fair to Etuhu he had improved - but was still inconsistent.  Him and Safri were our best midfielders, which doesn''t say much for the likes of Hughes, Fozzy and ummm errrr.......  We should have been looking to add to them.

 

As has been said the main problem was inadequate cover.  Well we now have a single Gary Holt style figure and nothing much else.  lets hope Grant pulls some decent signings out of the bag.

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[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

Exactly Ricky. Some people can''t seem to see the wood for the trees.

Something is seriously wrong in the camp. Its obvious to some of us that there is no direction or planning. The club are simply reacting to events that are spinning out of control.

[/quote]

What because we are losing Etuhu? Perhaps a hint of overreaction. Calm down you fevered hordes, all 8 of you.

 

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[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

Exactly Ricky. Some people can''t seem to see the wood for the trees.

Something is seriously wrong in the camp. Its obvious to some of us that there is no direction or planning. The club are simply reacting to events that are spinning out of control.

[/quote]

But in the case of Etuhu, (and I think it''s a good price anyway), what else could the club do? They tried offereing him a new improved contract, and he turned it down...Providing ALL of the money is given to Grant to restrengthen, I don''t see how criticism of THIS DEAL is valid... 

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[quote user="ricardo"]

[quote user="ricky knight"]The point is when your star player comes out with a rant, something is wrong, do you really believe all fees will be put back into team building, you got more chance of Lord Lucan winning the Grand national on Arkle.[/quote]

Exactly Ricky. Some people can''t seem to see the wood for the trees.

Something is seriously wrong in the camp. Its obvious to some of us that there is no direction or planning. The club are simply reacting to events that are spinning out of control.

[/quote]So whats the plan? moan moan moan...but do you actually have any viable plans or solutions to the problems? Not just you ricardo/ricky but the rest of the moaners.When I say viable I mean don''t just say "SACK THE BOARD" I mean actually state your objective, aims, design, implementation methods.I''m dieing to hear this brilliant solution....

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The fact that Darren Huckerby has come out and so vehemently attacked the board for what he percieves is a lack of ambition is telling.  Whatever ones views of Etuhu, the fact remains that on his day he was one of the most effective performers in the squad. On the rare occasion he didnt play last season, the collapse of the team (at colchester) was cataclysmic. Safri, again on his day is amongst the best of a very poor crop at colney. Earnshaw needs no introduction. To remove this trio from our threadbare and low quality squad, is at best folly, at worst an act of sabotage. In the process, the board have antagonised the other of thequartet of ''best players'' to the extent he is incandescent with rage on local TV. and for the first time making noises about being fed up. All this happens after the chairman informs us that the Turners have ensured that no players need be sold! And still there are people queing up to defend the board, even as the clubs best player has now joined the long list of their detractors. Unless a major event, in the form of some serious transfer activity (inward) is not forthcoming, expect a relegation struggle in the next few months. .

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I agree with Indy. I bet if we announced we were selling Doc as well for a million the same people would still start going mad. Instead of thinking thank god some mug was willing to pay that for him!

I think Etuhu and Safri are good players but they don''t always play well (or at all in Safri''s case) and to get out of this league you need good players playing consistantly opposed to better players who turn up half the time. We may not be able to replace the presence of Etuhu but if we got a solid player who was almost as good and turned up every game I''d be more than happy and would improve the team. On his day he can be immense, off his day he can be as effective as a fat bloke sitting in a deck chair in the centre circle watching the game go by (I''m sure some games we should have charged him for watching the game rather than paying his wages)

If it turns out we sell Saf and Etuhu and we don''t get any replacements for them what-so-ever and no centre back (which we all know we still need) then I''ll be angry and tearing my hair out with the rest of you. Untill then, I''ll sit and wait for the Transfer Window to close before I start stamping my feet and screaming. 

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Feel I have to post something here. There is a great deal of sense being spoken here and I agree that selling a player isn''t the end of the world. Etuhu for my money never performed consistently enough and Hucks alluded to that in his statement. The thing that concersn me more than anything is that every other club seems to get top dollar for their players and we end up being suckered by the dreaded "buy out clause". Earnie was worht at least £5m in todays crazy market  Who is negotiating hte contracts?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.

[/quote]

I''m sure Etuhu was one of those replacements? [8-)]

 

[/quote]

Yes, and one i was very pleased we signed. I have said all along that the occasional gem turns up whilst you`re rummaging around the cheaps and freebies. How many others have we found? To base a clubs whole transfer policy on turning up cheap talent on a regular basis is ridiculous.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Once again rose-tinted spectacles. Etuhu and Safri are very obviously two of our best players yet even with them we finished 16th last season.[/quote]

Your statement, if true, suggests that we need better players.

Youssef Safri - number of starts in league matches

01 / 02 - 22
02 / 03 - 24
03 / 04 - 31
04 / 05 - 13
05 / 06 - 25
06 / 07 - 29

Thats an average of 24 league match starts per season, over the last 6 seasons.

Etuhu scored 6 goals for us in 41 league starts last season, but must share some responsibility for the 70+ goals that the team conceded over the season.  That said, losing him is a blow.  But it''s one that the team can recover from.

[quote]This is why we have been lumbered with Hughes, Doherty, Colin, Brown and Croft when the likes of Sidwell, Eastwood, Halford, Chopra and Koumas have been looking for a move for a realistic fee.[/quote]

There is a huge difference between a realistic fee and a realistic transfer.  Location plays a part, wages another.  Due to the competitive nature of the market, will never land every transfer target, not that there is any suggestion that Sidwell, Eastwood, Halford, Chopra and Koumas were considered by Worthington.

[quote]Why on earth do you assume we will get better replacements in, when the evidence of the last three seasons clearly indicates we are far more likely to end up with another Thorne, Jarrett, Colin, Hughes, Doherty, Fotheringham or Croft? And Doherty has only just been awarded a new contract so i doubt very much he will be replaced.[/quote]

The evidence of the summer signings ( I shan''t list them, you know who they are [:)] ) suggests that the new management are working harder than before to bring in new players.  Your evidence, dare I say it, points to the Worthington era.  Every manager signs duff players, putting some (in your opinion) duff signings (that were mainly signed by Worthington) in a sentence doesn''t prove that the next player that this manager signs will be a duff one.

Who did Etuhu replace ?  And was he considered to be better or worse than the player he replaced at the time ? [:)]

We dort loikes chaynge in Narfook, dooo we ?[/quote]

Of course we need better players Blah but, very obviously, they should be complimenting our best players if we are to improve rather than being brought in as replacements who may or may not be as good.

On the transfer targets- those players all followed the same pattern. We were linked with them, there were strong rumours that the fees and wages involved were quite high......then it all goes quiet and within a few weeks we`ve signed a free or cheapie like Hughes, Jarrett or Robinson. I know the reply, "they were just rumours " but virtually all transfers are leaked before they happen these days and bids are always made public as the selling club attempt to start a bidding war. Since the board have been in charge we have signed TWO players for over £1million so please get real, Worthington signed the best he could afford with the paltry budget he was given. He couldn`t even have signed Robinson if it hadn`t been for a director loan.

Etuhu was actually one of our more ambitious signings and i applauded it. Had we spent £500-£700k regularly on players of the calibre of Etuhu and Safri instead of diddly-squat on Thorne, Jarrett, Robinson, Gallager, Colin, Louis-Jean etc. we would be in a much better position all round. False economy Blah.

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[quote]The fact that Darren Huckerby has come out and so vehemently attacked

the board for what he percieves is a lack of ambition is telling. [/quote]It tells more about Huckerbys'' position in the squad than anything.  As a member of the team of the last two seasons, he is as responsible for our league position as Etuhu or anyone else.  Is he seriously expecting a club with no Sky money to compete on wages with a club that has spent 15 million in this transfer window ?   How you or he can hold the board responsible for Etuhu and Earnshaw wanting to leave for the Premiership astounds me.  Their agents insisted on the release clauses when they signed for us, the only way to remove these clauses would have been to break our wage structure I would speculate. When the new TV deals were put together, you could argue that this should have been when the minimum fees should have been raised, I guess.  But regardless of those clauses, Etuhu would have left with or without a minimum fee clause, it''s his big chance to be a Premiership player.

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Indy - great posting.Love the analogy.However I believe they will get another burger and pocket the change - hope I''m wrong tho''

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there''s no doubt granty got dicko to tick at the back end of last season.  keano will keep the rocket that grant lit under dicko''s backside well stoked - however, after the virus dicko suffered on holiday, i can see his pre-season fitness suffer to the extent he''ll be back to the dicko we knew for most of his city career.  i''d say £1.5m for dicko is a good piece of business.  as for safs - if his heart was at city - he''d drop his intl comittments like a hot spud.  with our small sqaud - we can''t afford injuries and tiredness picked up on intl away days - he''d be a bench player for me this season.  if the board are truly ambitious for city to go up - we need another quality midfielder and central defender in at least.  instead all we hear is BS - ''we''re not a selling club'' - yeah right.

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