its going full circle

[Syteanric 1]

2 more players look set to be solf odd under the nose of Peter Grant, Add that to the sale of Earnie and we have problems.. big problems.

 Cast your mind back to the mid 90''s. We had just lost in Europe and were 2nd place in the top flight of English football. Mike Walker goes to Bob Chase and asks for some money to strengthen the squad and keep the challenge up on Manchester united. Money isnt presented. instead Ruel Fox is sold to Newcastle.... the wrot had started.

 Walker leaves, the club appoints martin O Neil after relegation (when John Deehan wasn''t given funds to try and keep us up)... Money is promised but not delivered to O''Neil. we dont sign Dean Windass... O''neil gets fed up at the lack of money and the Bulls**t being spun by the board... he leaves, Meggo is appointed and his 2 best players are sold under his nose with nothing he can do about it.

in 2007, after yet more Bulls**t from the board Peter Grant loses his best player, sold under his nose. 2 midfielders (im not getting into a debate about how good or bad either of them are) are also set to Depart.

 Munby said, just a few weeks ago, "we dont have to sell" and yet we are.... we are told that Grant will be "backed" and that the turners are investing "heavily" yet have spent just under what sunderland are paying for 1 player...

 Add to this Hucks saying he cat take much more of it.. i fully expect Delia to come out and say "if Darrn Huckerby isnt here next season i wont be".

 something needs to be done before we lose Hucks, Lose Grant and lose our place in the chumpionship.

jas :)

[can u sit down please 0]

great post mate. I agree with everything you say.

I feel sorry for PG, he is trying to build a squad capable of doing something but he is being betrayed by those upstairs.

I hate being negative, but if i was a local business man with £275m in the bank and a so called "massive fan" i wouldnt be selling Etuhu. Maybe Saffs but not him. This is crazy, unless we have a quality replacement lined up (cant think of many in the attacking midfield role) i will remain pi$$ed off.

I wonder has Etuhu got one of these clauses in his contract? Full credit must go to Grant for developing DE, we wouldnt have got £15 for him at the start of the season! But imagine what he would potentially be worth if we should hang on to him!? Im not gonna doubt Keane''s judgement......he obviously see''s something he likes.

[Cloughie 0]

Not to worry Mr Doncaster will spend hours in his car trying, sadly in vain, to sign players.  Mr Munby will be trotting out with a cry of we are holding our money for the January window.  Come January we can''t sign anyone as they are overpriced.  The money will disappear into black hole and despite full houses, a small squad and little spent on transfers the debt will go up.  There is no wonder that loyal fans become disspirited!!

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

2 more players look set to be solf odd under the nose of Peter Grant, Add that to the sale of Earnie and we have problems.. big problems.

 Cast your mind back to the mid 90''s. We had just lost in Europe and were 2nd place in the top flight of English football. Mike Walker goes to Bob Chase and asks for some money to strengthen the squad and keep the challenge up on Manchester united. Money isnt presented. instead Ruel Fox is sold to Newcastle.... the wrot had started.

 Walker leaves, the club appoints martin O Neil after relegation (when John Deehan wasn''t given funds to try and keep us up)... Money is promised but not delivered to O''Neil. we dont sign Dean Windass... O''neil gets fed up at the lack of money and the Bulls**t being spun by the board... he leaves, Meggo is appointed and his 2 best players are sold under his nose with nothing he can do about it.

in 2007, after yet more Bulls**t from the board Peter Grant loses his best player, sold under his nose. 2 midfielders (im not getting into a debate about how good or bad either of them are) are also set to Depart.

 Munby said, just a few weeks ago, "we dont have to sell" and yet we are.... we are told that Grant will be "backed" and that the turners are investing "heavily" yet have spent just under what sunderland are paying for 1 player...

 Add to this Hucks saying he cat take much more of it.. i fully expect Delia to come out and say "if Darrn Huckerby isnt here next season i wont be".

 something needs to be done before we lose Hucks, Lose Grant and lose our place in the chumpionship.

jas :)

[/quote]

Couldn''t agree more JAS.

Even if we get £2.5 million for the pair who are we going to get to replace them? Assuming of course all the money was made available to Granty (and thats not a given if history is anything to go by). In any event it will now be obvious to other clubs that we have money and are desperate and we are going to be held to ransome over any bids.

As you say, something needs to be done. Unfortunately I have little confidence that those in charge have any idea what to do about it.

Neil Doncaster said we have to be a bit cleverer than other clubs. I see little sign of it so far.

[Branston Pickle 3,636]

I can see where you''re coming from Jas, but I''m pretty sure any sale of Etuhu would not be a massive surprise to PG - there were links with a move for him before the season ended (to M''bro, which were laughed at) and a few weeks ago Grant was quoted as saying he hoped he decided to stay (I don''t have the direct quote but am sure I could find it!), as he saw him as a crucial player for us.  I''m pretty sure that we have a replacement lined up, but I guess we''ll have to wait and see.

The only problem I can see is if both Saf and Etuhu go, as they did play 70+ games between them last season and we''d have to start from scratch again....though it was a pretty unsuccessful season when all is said and done, and this was evident in m/f as much as anywhere, so for me it is not necessarily all so bad!

[djc 0]

Hey... maybe... and laugh at me if you wish too, but... perhaps...just may be... erm... Granty might actually be fully supportive of the potential sale of Etuhu, and yes, here comes the laughter..... has replacement player/s in mind for signing..... ho ho. After all, D.E. would be just one more Worthy signing moved on for ...lets be honest... a rumoured good transfer fee.

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

I think individually they both look good deals, even if the timing (together) is poor.Safri is 30, and injury prone, and likely to disappear for the African Nations at the key point of the season. And lets be honest, Etuhu has rarely looked like a £1.5m midfielder in his time at the club, and  if that''s the level of his release clause then I don''t really see what anyone can do about it now.The board must realise though that all the money from these transfers has to be made available for a quality replacement to play alongside Brellier. The next couple of weeks will be the test of ambition.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"] Munby said, just a few weeks ago, "we dont have to sell" and yet we are....[/quote]Just because we don''t have to sell, doesn''t mean we shouldn''t Jas.Personally I think £5 million for Chopra is laughable, and £2 million for Etuhu is similar. Why would we turn down such a good offer for such an inconsistent player?I don''t think Hughes is up to being a first team player, most would agree, so if a good offer came in, we''d be happy to sell. Etuhu has not done enough to truly justify his first team place for me, so again I have no problem with us selling.I want players who will perform week in, week out. I want players who are dedicated and don''t have such crippling self doubts that unless their confidence is built up they don''t play well. I want players who want to be at this club and help us get to the Prem, not simply look for the quick route out to whoever comes in.It''s about time we moved players like Etuhu on, and got in superior replacements. If Etuhu goes, we''ve got every motivation and justification for looking to bring someone like Ben Watson or Jonathan Douglas in.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="huck tastic"]I think individually they both look good deals, even if the timing (together) is poor.

Safri is 30, and injury prone, and likely to disappear for the African Nations at the key point of the season.
And lets be honest, Etuhu has rarely looked like a £1.5m midfielder in his time at the club, and  if that''s the level of his release clause then I don''t really see what anyone can do about it now.

The board must realise though that all the money from these transfers has to be made available for a quality replacement to play alongside Brellier. The next couple of weeks will be the test of ambition.
[/quote]

I`m sorry, but there have been posts almost word-for-word the same as this after we sold Francis, Jonsson, Helveg and Svensson for £3million and replaced them with Hughes, Jarrett, Colin and Thorne for £750k. And after we sold Ashton and brought in Earnie but didn`t strengthen the gaping holes in the team. And after we only signed Croft in the last close season. And after selling Green and Mckenzie for £3million and spending under £1million on players to strengthen a weak and struggling squad.

It`s been going on for far too long now and the anger is more than justified.

[chicken 0]

I agree with the anger but I don''t agree with the comparisons.

Chase opened up our club as a supermarket for football players - problem was we ran out of anything anybody wanted to buy! A lot of the time players were quite happy to stay at the club, some even being sold or moved on against their will almost.

The situation we are in now is because players wanted out and have been able to get out because of clauses in their contracts. Whilst I have no problem with Earnshaw having one as even in hindsight we were better with him with a clause than not having him at all. I do have a problem with Etuhu having one when you consider when we signed him he was a reserve team player who had struggled to nail down a place at any of the clubs he had played at previously.

Safri is perhaps one player we had expected to see the back of over the summer considering all of the rumours from January onwards. I just think that in some ways some of this is down to the management.

If I was a manager and I knew that a player had a clause in his contract I would want to sort out any new deal before the transfer deadline day so that at least I had time to sort out a replacement. I know we still have time but I think somewhere something has not been done quick enough.

The one thing I will say is that at least the money that will be made will be thrown back into the team - it will be a real test of Duffy, Grant and Gunn to see if they can wheel and deal and bring in the much needed players to keep quality in this team.

[renegade tootsie 0]

Its a fair point well made :-(

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="huck tastic"]I think individually they both look good deals, even if the timing (together) is poor.

Safri is 30, and injury prone, and likely to disappear for the African Nations at the key point of the season.
And lets be honest, Etuhu has rarely looked like a £1.5m midfielder in his time at the club, and  if that''s the level of his release clause then I don''t really see what anyone can do about it now.

The board must realise though that all the money from these transfers has to be made available for a quality replacement to play alongside Brellier. The next couple of weeks will be the test of ambition.
[/quote]

I`m sorry, but there have been posts almost word-for-word the same as this after we sold Francis, Jonsson, Helveg and Svensson for £3million and replaced them with Hughes, Jarrett, Colin and Thorne for £750k. And after we sold Ashton and brought in Earnie but didn`t strengthen the gaping holes in the team. And after we only signed Croft in the last close season. And after selling Green and Mckenzie for £3million and spending under £1million on players to strengthen a weak and struggling squad.

It`s been going on for far too long now and the anger is more than justified.

[/quote]

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

Sorry, I don''t see the logic in your comparison...Hughes Jarrett Colin and Thorne were certainly all poor replacements, but as I said in my post, I think the issue is about how we REPLACE Safri and Etuhu, and the board need to show ambition in how they spend the money...

The news today that Etuhu was actually offered a new improved contract at the weekend, presumably to fend off Sunderland''s interest, also demonstrates how with a release clause, there is not much the club can do if the player wants to leave...

In strictly financial terms I think the club have got good money for both of them, BUT it needs to be SPENT!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="huck tastic"]

Sorry, I don''t see the logic in your comparison...Hughes Jarrett Colin and Thorne were certainly all poor replacements, but as I said in my post, I think the issue is about how we REPLACE Safri and Etuhu, and the board need to show ambition in how they spend the money...

The news today that Etuhu was actually offered a new improved contract at the weekend, presumably to fend off Sunderland''s interest, also demonstrates how with a release clause, there is not much the club can do if the player wants to leave...

In strictly financial terms I think the club have got good money for both of them, BUT it needs to be SPENT!

[/quote]

Ok huck tastic, to be honest i used your post to make a more general point that going by the last few years there is little evidence that adequate replacements will be brought in. People seem to assume that the signings made since Earnie`s departure are great but the only "given" i would say is Marshall. The jury is still very much out on the others.

The club has been saying since relegation that all transfer proceeds are re-invested in the team but quite simply, it`s a lie. The club are millions up on transfers in that period and the last accounts actually show a transfer profit of £3million. Why should we suddenly expect it to change?

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="huck tastic"]

Sorry, I don''t see the logic in your comparison...Hughes Jarrett Colin and Thorne were certainly all poor replacements, but as I said in my post, I think the issue is about how we REPLACE Safri and Etuhu, and the board need to show ambition in how they spend the money...

The news today that Etuhu was actually offered a new improved contract at the weekend, presumably to fend off Sunderland''s interest, also demonstrates how with a release clause, there is not much the club can do if the player wants to leave...

In strictly financial terms I think the club have got good money for both of them, BUT it needs to be SPENT!

[/quote]

Ok huck tastic, to be honest i used your post to make a more general point that going by the last few years there is little evidence that adequate replacements will be brought in. People seem to assume that the signings made since Earnie`s departure are great but the only "given" i would say is Marshall. The jury is still very much out on the others.

The club has been saying since relegation that all transfer proceeds are re-invested in the team but quite simply, it`s a lie. The club are millions up on transfers in that period and the last accounts actually show a transfer profit of £3million. Why should we suddenly expect it to change?

[/quote]

Yep, that''s fair comment, Mr Carrow.

Let''s hope that better players than Etuhu and more reliable players than Safri come in as replacements.

 

[mr carra 0]

why does everyone just look at transfer fees and assume any difference between sales and purchases is available to be spent.  The biggest costs for football clubs are wages not fees.  A player who arrives on a free transfer does not cost you nothing!

Since 2004/5 our income from TV money has dropped from about £20m (Prem year) to a couple of million this year.  A drop in annual income of £18m.  Under those circumstances how are we supposed to stay in business without cutting costs dramatically?  Of course today''s playing staff will be "cheaper" than that of a couple of years ago.

 

Get real people!

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="mr carra"]

why does everyone just look at transfer fees and assume any difference between sales and purchases is available to be spent.  The biggest costs for football clubs are wages not fees.  A player who arrives on a free transfer does not cost you nothing!

Since 2004/5 our income from TV money has dropped from about £20m (Prem year) to a couple of million this year.  A drop in annual income of £18m.  Under those circumstances how are we supposed to stay in business without cutting costs dramatically?  Of course today''s playing staff will be "cheaper" than that of a couple of years ago.

 

Get real people!

[/quote]

I don''t follow your logic Mr Carra.

Any replacement for Etuhu is likely to be on less wages rather than more so how does that prevent us from spending the entire transfer fee.

 

[mr carra 0]

ricardo,

 

I wasn''t referring specifically to the Etuhu deal, in fact I agree that money should be available (although we don''t get £1.5m - we have to give £150k to Preston and I bet there are other costs too).

 

I was referring to the posts that compared fees in and out over the whole period since relegation which implied that we should be able to match ins and outs over that period.