Dont be fooled by the frees-wheres the money gone?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]"beyond our finance, we must continue to punch above our weight,both on

and off the field,as i believe we have done for the last four seasons.

If our destiny were tied solely to current finance, we would settle

somewhere in the middle of the Championship". (quote:R.Munby P2 2005

annual report).[/quote]Munbys'' quote is a recognition that everyone in the group must continue to out-perform, or mediocity beckons. In other words, unlike the promotion season, we didn''t get value for money, we got what we paid for.[quote]This quote is after the club received £20million in tv revenue from the

Prem season and were guaranteed £14.2million more in parachute

payments, and yet it seems our esteemed chairman saw our rightful place

as mid-table in the Championship alongside clubs such as

Burnley,Preston and Ipswich who had smaller crowds and no Prem cash

bonanza.[/quote]20 million from this, 14.2 million from that, they''re all big numbers until you put them in their correct context of a running business.  These figures just don''t exist in isolation, nobody gets to ring-fence the Sky TV money.  Your method of debate is a bit like New Labour telling us that they''ve saved 14 billion on this and created so many thousands of jobs for nurses, which sounds great until you realise the bigger picture, which usually represents a tiny percentage of the full picture.  The percentages might be different, but you''re using the same trick.[quote]"The cost to the club of player wages,agents fees,signing-on fees,image

rights contracts and many other ancillary costs means that any

investment in any promising player represents a huge financial outlay

and, therefore,a huge risk". (quote: N.Doncaster P4 2005 annual report).I think this attitude explains why the club have been quite happy to

offload the clubs best players for millions but absolutely loathe to

spend good money on quality replacements. It is too much of a risk.[/quote]Here you are putting words into Neil Doncasters'' mouth.  If the risk is not worth taking, how come we signed Robert Earnshaw ?  Or Dean Ashton before him ?  The best way out of this league is with a fully functioning team, not a collection of highly paid "name" players, speaking of which, how many "name" players are enough ?  We usually carry a couple (Huckerby, Earnshaw most recently), which is a couple more than most of our competitiors.[quote]And yet it is wrong for "negative" supporters to demand a change in

approach which might reverse the decline of the last three years??[/quote]Well, last week we signed 5 players and another is training with us.  All of them have the potential to perform to a high level in our league.  Does that represent a change in approach ?[quote]Of course i don`t for a moment think it has entered their little heads...[/quote]Mr Carrow, I believe a career in politics beckons, if only you could avoid resorting to insults... [:)]

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Isn''t this just an "intangible, feeling that YOU have about them"??[/quote]Well yes Stevo, it is.  But I''m not attempting to use my intangible feeling about someone as a stick to beat them with.

[Old Shuck 183]

As Sharp had no interest in joining us -or Charlton- to lamblast the club for "not making an effort to sign him" -what else could they do other than invite him down for talks and show him the club etc-and only ever wanted to join the Blades, its a little unfair to give Norwich stick for not doing so.

 

 

[kevin brighton 0]

Mr Carrow, what a cynic, can you or any of the other detractors on this forum prove your cynical allegations against those that hold the purse strings. Can you prove that any of the money from the sale of past players has been siphoned off or used for other ventures. In fact can you prove any of your statements?

How does this type of posting help anyone? Yes you could write to the club and ask a question or you could even email Neil Doncaster but what you cannot do is dissect ever response or statement and then bend or alter it to suit your cynical view and accusations.

It is probable that football is the only place that you can get away with this type of stuff so if you are saying that your views would apply to all clubs then I guess we would all have to accept that football is full of the type of dishonest people you appear to think preside over our club. Is that what you are suggesting or is it just relevant to Norwich City?

 

[Stevo 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Isn''t this just an "intangible, feeling that YOU have about them"??[/quote]

Well yes Stevo, it is.  But I''m not attempting to use my intangible feeling about someone as a stick to beat them with.
[/quote]

I''m not into beating the board or the club either.....honest! :)

If you''re running a business as emotive as a football club is, then everything you do and the way that you run that business is going to get scrutinised. For me that means giving credit when and where it''s due and querying mistakes. The subjectivity comes in what people deem to be mistakes and in my view there''s alot been made in the last 3 years. As I''ve said before, I am desperate for the club to do well (as is everyone) and if the signings and the team come good I''ll be very quick to acknowledge a job well done.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]Isn''t this just an "intangible, feeling that YOU have about them"??[/quote]Well yes Stevo, it is.  But I''m not attempting to use my intangible feeling about someone as a stick to beat them with.[/quote]

Absolutely spot on

[Temp the Revelator 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

"beyond our finance, we must continue to punch above our weight,both on and off the field,as i believe we have done for the last four seasons. If our destiny were tied solely to current finance, we would settle somewhere in the middle of the Championship". (quote:R.Munby P2 2005 annual report).

[/quote]

Is it just me then?  I read this as saying if it were only down to our current financial position, we would have to settle for mid-table obscurity in this league.  I don''t believe it says that that is what the board''s ambitions are - in fact, quite the opposite - it states that we need to punch above our weight, which surely means that despite our current financial position, the board''s ambitions lie much higher than that?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]The subjectivity comes in what people deem to be mistakes and in my view there''s alot been made in the last 3 years.[/quote]I''m perfectly happy to discuss mistakes by the board, in fact I''d rather do that than talk about the "Little Norwich" urban myth.  The important thing with mistakes is to learn from them, because everybody makes them.

[Spartan 0]

[quote user="kevin brighton"]

Mr Carrow, what a cynic, can you or any of the other detractors on this forum prove your cynical allegations against those that hold the purse strings. Can you prove that any of the money from the sale of past players has been siphoned off or used for other ventures. In fact can you prove any of your statements?

How does this type of posting help anyone? Yes you could write to the club and ask a question or you could even email Neil Doncaster but what you cannot do is dissect ever response or statement and then bend or alter it to suit your cynical view and accusations.

It is probable that football is the only place that you can get away with this type of stuff so if you are saying that your views would apply to all clubs then I guess we would all have to accept that football is full of the type of dishonest people you appear to think preside over our club. Is that what you are suggesting or is it just relevant to Norwich City?

 

[/quote]

Sometimes I really do wonder if we do all support the same team and want the same thing? I want Norwich to do the very best that a club of its size can. We have very impressive season ticket sales, the ground is nearly at capacity for every home game and away support is certainly better than a lot of Championship teams, we have one of the best grounds in the country, that hosts national games (at U21 level) and yet some people are still happy for mediocrity. We are not being ''cynical'' as you put it, merely asking the people who are accountable for the running of this club to stand up and really back the team. I''m not asking for money to be thrown at has beens, I''m asking for us to be consistantly linked with, and pushing hard to secure the services of some proven quality. I know you pro board posters will throw the old line of ''but what about Ashton, what about Earnshaw'' and I agree at times the board has pulled its finger out, but one or two swallows doesn''t make a summer.

I always thought one of the oldest mantras in business was ''you have to speculate to accumulate''. Dare to live the dream!

[Stevo 0]

Isn''t the ''little Norwich'' perception an example of a mistake? Admittedly a long time ago and probably not worthy of any more discussion but still an example of how comments or actions from the board can be open to criticism.

What I''ve found interesting in the short time I''ve posted on this site is how quickly you are labelled as naive if you make comments in support of the club or a trouble-maker / negative if you raise your concerns.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]I''m asking for us to be consistantly linked with, and pushing hard to secure the services of some proven quality.[/quote]What about Billy Sharp ?  The club did all they could to sign him.  The same goes for David Cotterill, who admittedly has fallen off the radar since leaving Bristol for Wigan Reserves.  And as for Julian Brellier, Dave Marshall, Jamie Cureton - Sounds to me like you should be a lot happier than you sound, not only are we linked with the quality, we''re signing quality.

[Spartan 0]

09 July 2007
Earnshaw: I will miss Delia’s cooking

Former Norwich City striker Robert Earnshaw has paid tribute to Delia Smith for lifting his spirits with a "get well" gift during his long injury lay-off last season.

The 26-year-old Wales international, who made a swift exit from Carrow Road in a £3.5m move to Derby 10 days ago, said City''s joint majority shareholder sent him a parcel during his three-month spell on the sidelines after a groin operation.

The cookery queen''s message summed up the friendly environment at Norwich, he said. "I didn''t want to leave Norwich because it is a great family club.

"Not only will I miss Delia Smith''s cooking, but she sent me a football book when I was injured," said Earnshaw.

"I was really down when the post came and there was a parcel on my mat. Normally I just get bills and I wondered what it was - it turned out to be a book from Delia with a message inside saying ''Get well soon''. That typified the atmosphere at Carrow Road.

"Even so, I would have moved anywhere in the Premiership because I knew it would have a positive effect on my career.

 

Sorry... But I couldn''t resist!

[Stevo 0]

Now now Rob! Admittedly I questioned Delia for calling us "little Norwich" but EVEN I wouldn''t beat her with a stick for giving our diminuitive and broken striker the benefit of her culinary skills and a free football book! 

[lobster catcher 0]

Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out

[Stevo 0]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

Just checking what you mean...''put up'' i.e. take over / invest in the club or ''shut up'' i.e. don''t ever question anything that''s done??

Wow....it''s an expensive business having an opinion on here!!

[Boogle 0]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Now now Rob! Admittedly I questioned Delia for calling us "little Norwich" but EVEN I wouldn''t beat her with a stick for giving our diminuitive and broken striker the benefit of her culinary skills and a free football book!  [/quote]

You are of course both right, our directors shouldn''t have any interest in the welfare of the players, and shouldn''t go out of their way to do anything that should be mis-construed as giving a flying monkeys. [:|]

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.[/quote]

Fair point Millo.  It''s not just Leeds, although they are the extreme example.  There''s Millwall, Bradford, Brighton, Oxford United, Nottingham Forest, all lived beyond their means and now can''t raise finances or attendances to get out of the bottom 2 divisions.  Oxford United were the first club to be sunk by a dodgy foreign investor you know [:)]

[Stevie Wonder 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.[/quote]

Fair point Millo.  It''s not just Leeds, although they are the extreme example.  There''s Millwall, Bradford, Brighton, Oxford United, Nottingham Forest, all lived beyond their means and now can''t raise finances or attendances to get out of the bottom 2 divisions.  Oxford United were the first club to be sunk by a dodgy foreign investor you know [:)]

[/quote]

Yes, but we could be heading down without any bl**dy decent investment in the team and that in my book would be a bigger crime than "doing a Leeds"!!!

Time for a reality check. Last season we finished 16th since when we have sold our biggest asset. We have signed a couple of promising keepers, a right back who seems to have an attitude, a midfielder who gets more yellow cards than Xmas cards and a 32yr old journeyman striker with a reasonable scoring record (see Peter Thorne). Excuse me if I ain''t doing cartwheels. These 5 players are very unlikely to turn us from a team who finished 9/10 points off relegation into championship contenders. As yet Strivhka hasn''t signed and there is no sign of the commanding centre half that we desperately need. Even with Strivhka you could argue another striker may be required as Martin may suffer from second season syndrome and Brown is yet to convince.

We are still a one man team in terms of creativity and this also needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

[quote user="Millo"]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[/quote]

Is that because it''s true and cannot be argued with? lobster made a very good point in my opinion.

[Cobain18 0]

[quote user="Millo"]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[/quote]

Fair comment. I think the only reasons that can be given for not spending money are our financial security or buying overated players for exaggerated prices. If you can find a player on a free who is as good as another that would cost 1 mil, what''s the point in buying the player for 1 mil. This season will reveal all i feel with the new manager''s signings.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Firstly this whole debate was for peoples opininions not for the likes of you to get personal.

[/quote]

But that''s the problem Arthur. When people like you, and Mr Oliver before you, come on here full of their own self importance it''s difficult to resist having a couple of digs.

When your first act is to introduce yourself as the new leader of an anti-board group and you then invite questions from people that you have no intention of answering then you''re asking for it.

What I said about your business was a little joke, if you find that too ''personal'' then I suggest you stop taking yourself so seriously. Or alternatively stop posting ''personal'' information.

[/quote]

Ive moderated my stance with regards to the board [Pictures of delia in a scum scarf ect ect] because i realised it wasnt the way things are done on here, Also with regards to the anti board demo leader or wharever it is you call me, i think you will find im merely saying im prepared to take over where Lee left off if and when a campaign is needed as Lee is unable to do it now. Ive made mistakes on here when i first started posting but most people have got over it and reply in a civilised manner, you on the other hand are intent to carry on going over old ground. So i would suggest that you should ignore my posts as they clearly irritate you to an extent that you have to reply to them in such a manner.

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"][quote user="Millo"]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[/quote]

Is that because it''s true and cannot be argued with? lobster made a very good point in my opinion.

[/quote]

Fulham?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="kevin brighton"]

Mr Carrow, what a cynic, can you or any of the other detractors on this forum prove your cynical allegations against those that hold the purse strings. Can you prove that any of the money from the sale of past players has been siphoned off or used for other ventures. In fact can you prove any of your statements?

How does this type of posting help anyone? Yes you could write to the club and ask a question or you could even email Neil Doncaster but what you cannot do is dissect ever response or statement and then bend or alter it to suit your cynical view and accusations.

It is probable that football is the only place that you can get away with this type of stuff so if you are saying that your views would apply to all clubs then I guess we would all have to accept that football is full of the type of dishonest people you appear to think preside over our club. Is that what you are suggesting or is it just relevant to Norwich City?

 

[/quote]

If you tell me what you want me to prove i will have a go for you. But then would you accept it or just dismiss it as irrelevent because it doesn`t fit in with your view of the club like several other people on here?

The last accounts (year ending May 2006) show that the club made a £3million profit in the transfer market and spent £3.9million on such vital things as "a new ticket office,a new Club 101 corporate facility,study support facility,tenanted office facilities for Connexions and Broadland Housing and the start of the Spaces for Sport project". (P8 2006 annual report). What is your opinion on this?

At the end of the day, if i had looked at events of the last few years and the financial details in the accounts and decided that the board had done all it could to build a successful team and had just been unlucky, i wouldn`t waste my time posting on here. But i think that by focussing on non-football ventures whilst allowing the team to spiral into decline, they have cocked up massively and set our club back years.

[Bigmarkcanary 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"][quote user="Bigmarkcanary"][quote user="Millo"]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[/quote]

Is that because it''s true and cannot be argued with? lobster made a very good point in my opinion.

[/quote]

Fulham?

[/quote]

Is that the best reply you can muster? Oh dear Arthur, and there was me thinking that it was actually to do with the performance on the pitch during the Fulham game - particularly the ill-fated second half [:''(]

Obviously I am very much mistaken [:|]

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Mr Carrow - nice to chat with you again [;)] I really am not ready for another browse through the accounts just yet or maybe even ever! We had a long discussion before where although we were not far apart in our views we both had different understandings of the details in the accounts. I was trusting and you were cynical of the motives of our board. One of us is probably right or maybe we are both half right, but it can only be opinion and I respect yours.

However, you have confused me in this post because I don''t understand how we can keep offloading the clubs best players for millions and not bring in quality replacements. If there aren''t quality replacements then we couldn''t keep selling our best players for millions. Surely nobody is going to pay millions for cheap has-beens or never-were''s.

From Ron Davies to Robert Earnshaw nothing has changed - our best players are sold for big money but quality replacements always seem to come from somewhere.

 

 

[kevin brighton 0]

Fine! Now there is some substance to your point. Now ask the board the questions, ask Neil Doncaster who is open to receiving emails. At the end of the day its all about making decisions.

Personally I believe we were one player short of staying in the premier league. Was that the board or the manager’s fault? I believe the manager was responsible. He put together the team for the premier league, he let Malky and Ewan go too early in my opinion. Malky would have prevented a goal and possibly scored one or two. Ewan would have notched a goal or two in my opinion. A couple of extra points in my opinion. But its all about decisions not unsubstantiated allegations or recriminations. The board have invested the money where they believe it should have been invested maybe not to our liking. The fact is that we have obtained some talented players for free by exploiting Bosman that does not mean that the players are no good does it? The issue I have with many posts is that they are full of unfounded allegations because the board will as some suggest hide the money.     

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle"]

Ive moderated my stance with regards to the board [Pictures of delia in a scum scarf ect ect] because i realised it wasnt the way things are done on here, Also with regards to the anti board demo leader or wharever it is you call me, i think you will find im merely saying im prepared to take over where Lee left off if and when a campaign is needed as Lee is unable to do it now. Ive made mistakes on here when i first started posting but most people have got over it and reply in a civilised manner, you on the other hand are intent to carry on going over old ground. So i would suggest that you should ignore my posts as they clearly irritate you to an extent that you have to reply to them in such a manner.

[/quote]

Fair enough Arthur, consider the slate wiped clean.

I got quite annoyed with your reluctance to answer the questions asked of you by various posters in the threads that you started but I guess there''s no point raking over old ground. My disappointment came from the fact that at the time I thought your threads detailing your problems with the board could be quite beneficial for everybody.

No hard feelings....but I reserve the right to make sarcastic comments about you if the mood so takes me!

[Boogle 0]

[quote user="Bigmarkcanary"][quote user="Millo"]

[quote user="lobster catcher"]Has anyone been on a leeds forum recently,bet they are all pleased with the success they had by spending big,is 4 years of success worth maybe 20 years of nothing or even no club at all,all you anti board people should put up or shut up,i defy anyone of you to find a billionaire to buy them out[/quote]

How many times are people going to use leeds as a reason we shouldnt spend money. Im all for debate but this "look what happened to Leeds" is really p''ssing me off.

[/quote]

Is that because it''s true and cannot be argued with? lobster made a very good point in my opinion.

[/quote]

No not at all look at Derby last year.Look at wigan, look at fulham, look at portsmouth, look at blackburn, look at reading, shall i continue? Do you think any of these clubs are giants that we cant compete with?

Look how many clubs have done well by having the guts and ambition.

The Leeds example is 1 club that spent money on the belief they would qualify for the champions league every year and are paying for it 5 years later. On the other hand they got to the play off final 2 seasons ago and had they won you would be left with no example. Leeds got relegated and it could happen to us or any club without spending hardly any cash.

Forest are where they are because they got relegated the same way we could next year.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

The last accounts (year ending May 2006) show that the club made a £3million profit in the transfer market and spent £3.9million on such vital things as "a new ticket office,a new Club 101 corporate facility,study support facility,tenanted office facilities for Connexions and Broadland Housing and the start of the Spaces for Sport project". (P8 2006 annual report). What is your opinion on this?

[/quote]

a) Did we need a new ticket office? I''m going to take a wild stab in the dark and suggest that they didn''t just build a new one for the hell of it. It''s also quite tenuous to link this with ''non-footballing activities'' in my opinion.

b) I suspect that, like me, you hate the fact that football is becoming more and more about corporate hospitality in this country. However, as this is clearly a nationwide trend it''s a little unfair to use it as a stick to beat our board with. I''d love nothing more than to rip down every piece of corporate hospitality within Carow Road and replace it with terracing, but I suspect it would cost us millions which could of course be spent on new players.

c) I''m guessing that the office facilities for Connexions and Broadland Housing and the Spaces for Sport project are all part of the FITC scheme? Didn''t Delia mention how concerned she was about the average age of football fans in the interview in The Guardian that people always bring up on here. I suppose these schemes are aimed at getting more kids interested in coming to Carrow Road.

£3.9million sounds a hell of a lot of money to spend on these activities but I think it''s to easy to dismiss these things as being worthless. I share some of your concerns that the board have spent too much time focussing on these ''off field activities'' and think that they may have over estimated the revenue that these things will bring in. I guess only time will tell whether they have learned their lesson. I''m hanging on to the hope that they have and that the six signings made so far are evidence of a new direction.